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m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by ebes on 2009-10-14 21:46:07

Hi guys & gals,

i'm close to sealing the deal on one of these units. Thanks to a few for their input so far. I'm leaning towards the m13 simply because of the effects loops feature for mods and delays. I'd prefer the more compact m9 if I could be confident that these effects (modulations and delays) worked well in front of the amp. I've heard some results through Youtube but it's tough to tell.

Any gigging musicians using the m9 in front of their amp? What do you think? How do you feel about the modulations and delays in front of the amp (not in the loop)? Is the sound good? great? Bad unless used through the loop? I have found delay in particular not so good in front of my amp. Is it different with the line6 delays?

Your input is appreciated.

M



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by dbagchee on 2009-10-14 21:53:52

If you want to use the distortion from your amp then the M13 is the way to go. If you run into the front and keep your amp clean and use the distortion from pedals the M9 should be fine for you.



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by ebes on 2009-10-14 22:25:03

thanks for the input.. I'm not worried about distortions/overdrive, etc. Just the modulation and delay effects in this unit in front of an amp.



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by stumpsout on 2009-10-14 22:41:26

my 2 cents...

At first I thought it was overkill to consider having two M13's..now I'm seeing times it would be great LOL

so, I'd get an M13....someday those EQ's and other goodies may come in handy, and 4 blocks can be nice to have

good luck whatever happens!

EDIT - forgot to mention that I am using the 4 cable method with the loop..YMMV



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by osvijazz on 2009-10-15 01:21:47

Hi there. I sold my M13 and got the M9. I'm using it in front, although I feel it sounds at it's best in the loop...it's not a huge difference but noticeable. Depending on your amp, delays can sound "way loud" in front when using the distortion channel, at least with my Mesa Lonestar. I only use the clean channel and ad distortion pedals. If size doesn't matter I would go with the M13...If it does matter get the M9. I miss having an lcd for each effect, no big deal, but the instant tuner is a must, at least for me and a pleasant surprise in the M9, I don't think is available in the M13. Bottom line...If only delays and modulation are to be used then the M9 it's perfect, M13 would be overkill just for that. I hope that helps. Good luck!



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by Tcoz on 2009-10-15 10:58:00

I have an M13 and an M9; I use the M13 for my main rig, and the M9 for my practice/jam rig. Formerly, I typically carried around the M13, an expression pedal, and a crybaby. Sometimes I also bring a POG, or a whammy pedal.

Too damn heavy. I live in the city, so busses and subways are the reality of me getting to the studio, and the M13 made this a pretty fair physical effort, and also made me bulky in a crowd.

The M9 solved that problem; now I leave the M13 at home so I don't have to break down my main rig every time I practice, and take the M9 when I to jam or rehearse. The M9 is still really powerful, and with some creative use of latched scenes and whatnot, I can get a solid catalog of sounds (though mostly I just use a couple of scenes full time).

I know that if I had the M9 and not the M13, I'd jones. But if you have to pick one, and you're not a really experimental guitar player that would have to have more than three or four effects running simultaneously (assuming you use a wah or something), or just don't need to see twelve available effects ready to go at any time, I'd get the M9.

The only set of effects I find somewhat sub par are the octave dividers. They're serviceable, but just don't sound special to me, so I subbed in a POG2, which when used in conjunction with echo, phase, flange, and some other stuff, sounds amazing.



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by jack_cass on 2009-10-15 15:38:39

As others have said, it really makes a difference if you use your amp for distortion sounds or not. I use the M13 in front of my amp and use a lot of univibe and delays, but I always keep my amp clean. I initially went routing them through the effects loop, but on a clean amp, I couldn't tell the difference. Since putting it all in front is easier to set up, that's what I stayed with.

However, if you want to use your amp for distortion, I highly recommend using the effects loop for modulations and delays.



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by jazzkappi on 2009-10-16 08:16:39

I agree with jack_cass and others. The clean amp setting is the key if you want to keep things simple.

By the way, there is a Zep-style preset scene in the m13 having an echo model in front of an overdrive model. Maybe a classic combination but nevertheless the result didn't convince me.



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by jws1982 on 2009-10-28 14:23:51

I would have to pick the M13.  The minimal extra cost, extra routing options, 4 fx w/3 options each, and 4 screens make this beast of a modeling system much more usable in my opinion.  The only reason I would go with an M9 is if i wasn't going to use as many of the features and wanted to integrate it into my existing pedalboard.  With the M13 and it's flexibility, it becomes the pedalboard.

DLx is $250

M9 is $400

M13 is $500

Only $100 more for the M13.  You'll need to get an expression pedal or two as well though.



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by creekhed on 2009-10-29 05:59:57

I'm new to the "M" family. Last week I went out and bought the M9 for it's size alone. This week I returned and bought the M13. I like being able to run 4 effects at one...that was my main reason for getting the M13. It's also nice having all of the displays in view as opposed to just one.

I must say, I was skeptical of getting a line6 as I don't dig Amp Modeling, but once I heard these units were FX only I was sold!

The Effects are AWESOME! I have since sold my pedalboard!

btw- I use the M13 out front and use my ElectraDyne's Vintage Low (Gain) channel and it sounds MINT! I also will use the M13's Overdrive's to bump the Drive. I am having NO issues having the FX in front of a bit of Amp OD...in fact, at my last gig I was complimented SEVERAL times on my tone (Although The Mesa Boogie Electradyne doesn't hurt)

I also went out and bought an EX-1 pedal and all I can say is, "Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!."



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by Hydrophish on 2009-10-29 17:13:12

This is a great topic and I imagine it will become useful for others struggling with this decision.  Can we get a sticky?

I struggled with this question a bit before I bought my M9, but in the end I'm very satisfied.  I play in my church's worship band and run the M9 in front of my amp's (Mesa Boogie Subway Rocket) clean channel and typically run an OD/distortion, Delay, and some Mod (Tremolo, light Phaser, Leslie, etc).  I don't find myself missing having a fourth effect and I really like the compact form factor of this thing.  I thought I would miss the 4CM, but as some others have pointed out, as long as you're running your amp clean, it's not an issue and really simplifies setup.  If you really want to leverage your amp's distortion tho, you'll have to figure something else out, maybe run the M9 in the FX loop and use an outboard distortion if you plan to do channel switching.  I only wish the M9 were just a smidge cheaper, say $325-$350.  Aside from that, I'm very happy with the M9.

Hope that helps some folks out there.

-phish



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by jporto on 2009-10-29 18:58:38

Hi, i used my m13 in front of the amp for about a year and it sounded great, I sold it for the m9 due to size. i got the m9 and the distortions didnt sound as good and peavey vaveking was modded (bias adjustment). I wanted to use the dist. in my amp and i pretty much only use delay and sometimes chorus for clean. The m9 was  to expensive for just those effects so i brought it back and got a H20. Now my sound is fantastic.Dont know why the dist. in the m9 were so bad, i figured it would be the same as m13.



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by teddybut on 2009-10-29 19:36:05

interesting ....

did you do the 2.0 update when you got it?

I use the M13 for some gigs and the M9 for other gigs. I never use the distortions in the M13, that rig is for freak out gigs. the M9 I use for small singer songwriter gigs and blues gigs. So I don't know the difference between the 2 model's distortions. I do find it hard to believe that there is any difference at all as long as they're loaded with the same version of the software.

Line 6 guys? is there a difference if they're loaded with the same software?

Teddy



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by cgtrox on 2009-10-29 19:47:04

That's too funny, I did just the opposite! I had an H20 chorus that I could not get the type of chorus sound that I wanted out of it. But, I found a plethora of great sounds from the M9. Not only for chorus but for everything I need! The H20 was $200 and it only did two things for me, and it wasn't what I wanted. So, I took it back and went with another $200 and now I have it all. I use it in my effects loop as the amp has all the gain and channels I need, another thing to mention, it's updateable!

cgtrox



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by Tcoz on 2009-10-30 03:30:46

I have to agree with the comment on price. The M9 is overpriced 50-75 at least (I'd actually say $100). It's a great device, and I know the models/tech is the same, but there's the a completely dumbed down interface (1 screen instead of 4), and a lot less pedal combos/options immediately available. $299 for the M9 would be a no brainer purchase, $349 would have been ok, $399 is expensive (relative to $499 for the whole M13 shebang). Line 6 knows how to take your money, there's no doubt about that.

However, and I can't stress this enough, if you're a musician that can play out of three...or more...different amp/backlines in a week in addition to your own rig, and you have to carry your sound around in a bag, and you want it to be consistent, and you're sick of batteries, patch cords, and all that, the M9 is an GREAT solution. I've worked with a lot of other stuff to try and get this package and the M9 is the first to deliver *almost* exactly what I want (I've said before that the octave and harmony effects are not up to snuff IMHO, they don't track nearly as well as something like a POG).

The M13 has a solid spot in my main rig, and it comes with me to important gigs; one day if I have a roadie they'll be carrying it around. But for standard getting around, or practice/jams/basic gigs, I find the M9 tough to beat for sheer power and convenience. M9 + crybaby + expression pedal fits in a 13 inch laptop bag, which is great on a crowded subway, and it's a lot of horsepower.

Regarding sound, I agree with the effects loop comments here (and use it in my main rig), but again, if you move around a lot and frequently only get five minutes to set up and no real sound check (typical in NYC showcase gig), you can't fuss with that. I get satisfactory results using the amp footswitch to switch to the lead channel as a boost (so just some increased gain and mids/presence). On the M13, in my main blues and rock scenes, I keep the tube comp in a separate column from the other drives/distortions as a boost (usually in my "filter" column), and it works great, but on the M9, it's hard to give up a whole effects column just for boost.

One other thing I do; my first column is my distortions, and I use the expression pedal to control the output level, as opposed to using the volume pedal model. This works great and even allows me to forego the tube comp boost if I have to (since I can just boost everything by turning up the output on my distortion column). One thing for sure about the M9, you get more creative about doing a lot more with a little less.



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by jporto on 2009-10-30 10:59:43

yeah, i did the update as soon as i got it, so whoever buys it is gonna get the update. with new tubes and bias control the PV dist is amazing. Ive had vetta,spider,spidervalve and they all come close but end up sounding thin. first gigs tommorrow so we'll see.



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by jporto on 2009-10-30 11:11:03

I agree but, I dont use much chorus in the southern rock band, I use it sparingly in the r&b band and little in the disco band. I like the echo in the h20. The m9 has the same type delays but theres only so much room on my board.



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by cgtrox on 2009-10-30 11:47:03

     That's the main reason I got the M9, floor real estate. The M13 was too big for me plus the M9 is easier to hide from the wife! Yeah, I don't use a LOT of chorus, just very subtle variations. I use it on all three of the bands I'm in right now, Country, Top 40 and original. But, I also use everything else! When I demoed the H20 at the store it sounded very nice, which is why I bought it in the first place. I just couldn't get it to sound like it did in the store so back it went.

     As far as pricing goes, try this. Start off with a budget of $400 and start pricing seperate pedals. They don't even have to be boutique pedals just normal Boss pedals will do and see how far that goes. I did that and my pedalboard was up to almost $1,000.00! I think the M9 should have been $350 but I really needed it and the extra $50? Well, the G.A.S. wants what the G.A.S. wants!

cgtrox



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by creekhed on 2009-10-30 14:58:36
plus the M9 is easier to hide from the wife!

Bwahahahahaa.... EXACTLY!!!!

When I replaced my M9 with an M13 she said, "What's THAT???"



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by sofnwhat on 2009-10-30 15:25:02

El Guapo, what is a plethora?



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by osvijazz on 2009-10-30 16:04:19

plethora - overabundance; excess...



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by cgtrox on 2009-10-30 20:12:13

LMFAO!! I was waiting to see if anyone caught that one! Nice catch bro!

cgtrox



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by cgtrox on 2009-10-31 00:14:42

I would say you have a plethora of geetars!

cgtrox



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by phil_m on 2009-11-01 12:18:46

I have both the M13 and M9 as well.  It sounds like I use it similar ways as you.  The M13 goes on my "mothership" board, and the M9 is on my little board.  The M9 is pretty cool.  It still amazes me to have so much available in such a little footprint.  I decided to repace the TC Electronic Nova System with an M9.

I really don't agree with you that the M9 is overpriced.  I think it makes sense where it's at considering all the effects that are available to you.  Consider that the DL4 still sells for $250 new, it is kind of amazing you can get all the additional functionality of the M9 for $150 more.  And actually, I was still able to get mine on sale for $320, but even at $400, I don't think I could complain.



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by mjsstark on 2009-11-01 16:11:12

BOTH pedals are EXTREMELY cheap for what they do. Let's not forget how much we've spent on individual pedals over the years. No matter which way you look at it, these things are a STEAL. Not only that, but everytime they update the firmware, they throw thousands (possibly 10's of thousands) of dollars worth of new pedals into it.

It has NEVER been cheaper to be a musician thanks to line 6 and the digital world.

Thank You Line 6.



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by Tcoz on 2009-11-01 17:35:28

Well, let's not go CRAZY here: if you really want to do it up, being a musician is just as expensive as it ever was. What Line6 has done is lowered the barrier to entry and the cost of a standard working rig with lots of effects options, but if I'm looking to impress, it's dedicated time-based effects running through an FX loop of a boutique amp (a top hat or Z or some such), with amp-based distortion and a real tube boost; that'll still cost you 3k at least (without the guitar, and you're not putting a Squire through that rig). The M9 and the M13 are good, primarily the delays and chorus/flange stuff (which are actually pretty damn good), but the harmony, octave and distortion models are "good", not "great". My old TS9 simply sounds better than the screamer model out of the M's, and the combo of a dedicated Boss DS-1 and TS9 is still such a standard that guys like Steve Vai are putting pedals out today that are essentially those same old analog electronics.

I suppose if you think that the M13 is underpriced, then the M9 is a solid buy (and I did buy both, so clearly I think they're worth the money), but relative to the M13 the M9 is pricey.

No hate here for line6 at all, I own both M devices, a PODX3, and a guitarport, and I use them all every day. But every Saturday I play with some older guys, all lawyers and/or retired musicians, that own all kinds of equipment, and they all say the same thing; yeah that stuff'll take you so far, but there's a reason Eric Johnson and Larry Carlton don't use it, you should be investing in the amp, not all those pedals", and these guys have been playing for a long, long time, and seen more music then I will for another 20 years.

Just a different perspective; the MXR distortion w/marshalls (custom) and a flanger is still all you need to sound like Eddie, and it's still the best way to sound like him; Randy too. Well, and the fingers.



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by mjsstark on 2009-11-02 11:33:54

Tcoz, I respect your point of view, but lets not forget that 99% of the people listening can not tell the difference. It's that 99% of people that pay our bills. And, for those of us who make a living in the music industry, trust me - it's never been cheaper. Never have we had such access to such quality gear for pennies on the dollar in comparison to years ago.



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by Tcoz on 2009-11-02 12:39:59

I respect your opinion as well; I've also been a guitar player for a long time (25 years)? Good equipment, power and performance, has never been cheap, and still isn't. The barrier to entry has been lowered quite a bit is all. An M9/M13 is "decent" imho. If I was really serious about buiding a pro sound with line 6 equipment, I'd probably buy a Line 6 Valve King head, which will set you back 2.5k...just for the head. But those things, pumped out of the right cabinet, really sound nice. You'll never get that sound without something like it, and many guitar players I know have hocked everything they've got just to pick up a JCM head or some such, and I'm sure it's not because 99% of the people won't know the difference, all the greats always go back to the amp.

Again, I'm a fan of the L6 stomp stuff, primarily for conveniece, but it absolutely is not a sub for investment in a head and a couple of standard analog effects boxes.

Man would I love to own one of those Valve Kings.



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by cgtrox on 2009-11-02 12:40:57

Big +1 bro, let me kick it old school for you real quick...

MXR T-shirt = $14.00 (I actually used to wear one, a lot!)

MXR Flanger = $169.00

MXR Chorus = $169.00

MXR 6 band EQ = $69.00

MXR Distortion + = $69.00

MXR Phase 90 = $99.00

MXR Carbon Copy Delay = $149.00

Total                          $739.00

Back in the day MXR was the go to pedal maker. There weren't a lot of pedal makers around that would build little tanks like the MXR stuff back then so they were very popular. My very first pedal was an MXR Distortion + with the script writing and it was a goldish color. I was like 14 and all my rocker friends were jealous! After that my pedalboard was all MXR! By then I was gigging all thru high school and beyond. I was running all of this thru a Hiwatt 100 watt 112 combo, man what a sound!

Look at that total! Just over $700.00!!! That's just for pedals, no wiring, pedalboard or power supply yet! I think Line6 is a great value, I was using my M9 last night with my rig and the guys were like wow, that thing looks cool! I showed them all the features and they were blown away! The Harmonizer really got em! If you run it like 40% mix the average joe doesn't know wtf. All he knows is you are playing two parts with one guitar! LOL!     

cgtrox



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by cgtrox on 2009-11-02 12:43:10

Isn't Valve King a Peavey?

cgtrox



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by jporto on 2009-11-02 13:01:30

Yes, a valveking is a 500$ peavey all tube head.I had a bias control mod and new tubes. did gig halloween night and  it sounded AMAZING!. 7 string epiphone les paul with JB pickup..The m9 would be perfect in the loop though. real estate and big wall wart only reason not. R&B band.I did have a Spidervalve and it almost was there but not Quite. Just wanted to get away from modeling.



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by Tcoz on 2009-11-02 13:16:59

My bad, I meant Spider Valve, I always confuse the two. The Spider valve heads have actually come down in price, about 1k now, not bad. Hmm I might be getting something for XMas, might have to go demo one of those for real.

Want to stress again, I full appreciate what line 6 is doing, the M gear is durable and convenient, and the Bogner stuff I've played through has surprised me. I gotta wave the flag for a hardcore rig though, if nothing else, just to keep giving myself a reason to sock money away for one.



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by Tcoz on 2009-11-02 13:22:50

Ah hmm, that's actually the core reason I went for the M boxes. I have a PODX3 and got great sound out of it when I could set up right, but pushing an amp model through another amp was often not a good thing, and shutting off the amp model drastically altered how the effects presets worked. Running it through the FX loop (if available) with an FBV Shortboard and amp distortion was workable, but if you walked in and there wasn't a loop you were kinda fubard. So now I perform with the M boxes and the POD stays home hooked up to the Mac.

If the Spider Valve modeling is the same sort of thing, I might have to, once again, look at the Marshall Vintage Moderns again.



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by jporto on 2009-11-02 13:45:49

Spidervalve has the same limited effect set up as the spider, the chorus is too much at lowest settings, pretty much all the mod. effects are not very friendly or warm. the delay is great digital delay. I played some big shows with that rig and my guitar always seemed to end up going away on stage ( loud drummer etc) It just didnt cut thru.Again, I like line 6, Ive had vetta,spidervalve etc.



Re: m9 or m13? Comments from m9 users needed (others welcome too)
by stompystink on 2009-11-03 09:27:03

BOTH!!!! muhhahaha.... i use the M13 in my amp's effects loop (VOX ac30) run all my delay, mod, filter in here. the sounds are richer and more pronounced, M13 runs fine in front, but flange, delay, and such don't sound as nice when they are effecting the guitar signal as opposed the the sound post amp. and i use M9 in fron, to give me all the dist. i need and comp if i want. let the tap dancing begin....lol




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