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SpiderValve MKII HD100 & Spider Valve 4x12 cab with hotplate
by MetalGuitar1 on 2009-12-20 11:37:32

I just got the spider valve hd100 with the matching 4x12 cabinet. I need (obviously) to bring down the volume for small area's while still getting the warm tube sound. A THD hotplate has one input from the amp but two outputs to the speaker cab. The 4x12 cabinet has a switch to choose between 16,8,or 4ohm  and two input possibilites.The head has multiple outputs for the different ohms. What would be the proper/correct hotplate ohm wise and proper cable connections from the head to the hotplate and the hotplate to the cabinet? Would it be an 8ohm hotplate, one 8ohm output from the head, and then the cabinet switch set to 8ohm and then two cables from the hotplate to both inputs in the cabinet or am I way off?



Re: SpiderValve MKII HD100 & Spider Valve 4x12 cab with hotplate
by cgtrox on 2009-12-20 14:05:04

The SV MKII is not a stereo head so just run the cab in mono. The Hotplates only come in one "flavor" so whichever one you choose you are stuck with that ohm rating. I can't remember what the most efficient ohmage to run the amp is, either at 4 or 16 ohms. I know one makes the amp power section not work as hard, I wanna say 16...

cgtrox



Re: SpiderValve MKII HD100 & Spider Valve 4x12 cab with hotplate
by spaceatl on 2009-12-21 10:26:37

Too clarify your cabinet: It is a 16 ohm mono, 8 ohm stereo or 4 ohm mono...It is not possible to wire a 412 cabinet 16, 8 or 4 ohm mono with the speakers and wire alone...It would have to have an autoformer or resistor network in it to do that...Not likely...So in terms of mono application you have a 16 ohm or 4 ohm cabinet...SV is a monoblock amplifier.

If you ran two cables to the cab (8 ohm stereo mode), the mono load would still be 4 ohms...Not sure if I have seen a 16 ohm version but that would be an option...I would suggest the 4 ohm version...Either run one cable to the proper 4 ohm jack or two cable to both jacks...

BTW - I think the Weber MASS Attenuators are a much better approach than a overpriced resistor based soaker...They utilize a real voice coil and thus a REAL reactive load just like a real speaker...Resistors are not reactive and hotplates aren't reactive as far as I know...Maybe some sort of simulation using inductors...Impedance is selectable in a Weber and they are half the cost of a THD hotplate...

https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/mass.htm



Re: SpiderValve MKII HD100 & Spider Valve 4x12 cab with hotplate
by MetalGuitar1 on 2009-12-21 15:05:36

Thanks cgtrox, I was hoping somebody from Line6 would post the proper and most efficient flavor. including the proper cable from head to hotplate and hotplate to speaker cab.



Re: SpiderValve MKII HD100 & Spider Valve 4x12 cab with hotplate
by MetalGuitar1 on 2009-12-21 15:13:12

thanks spaceatl, I will look into the Weber. The Line6 4X12 has a switch on the back at the inputs where you can select 4,8, or 16 ohm. I was hoping somebody from Line6 would post the proper configuration and plate rating, maybe I will call THD to see if they know I understand the SV is not a stereo head from the prior post The hotplate has 1 input and 2 outpts so I am not sure what the ohm rating should be or how to connect from the back of the hotplate to the 4X12



Re: SpiderValve MKII HD100 & Spider Valve 4x12 cab with hotplate
by MetalGuitar1 on 2009-12-21 15:29:44

THD says to run the 16 ohm flavor, one input from the head and one input to the 4X12



Re: SpiderValve MKII HD100 & Spider Valve 4x12 cab with hotplate
by spaceatl on 2009-12-21 19:45:43

What I wrote in my post is accurate...The outputs on a hotplate are parallel...You can either get a 16 ohm or a 4 ohm for you cabinet...The 16 ohm version means one cable to the cab...The 4 ohm can be one or two...If you use 2 cables then you put the cab in 8 ohm stereo mode...If you use one then 4 ohm mono mode...That's it...It's all in the hotplate manual...I read that manual on a few different occasions...

...The tone of any tube amp changes slightly with impedance selection...I strongly suggest you try your amp & cab at 16 ohms and 4 ohms to get an idea of what you prefer...It's subtle, but as you know there is no going back with a hotplate...



Re: SpiderValve MKII HD100 & Spider Valve 4x12 cab with hotplate
by MetalGuitar1 on 2009-12-22 05:22:19

I apologize if my posts did not seem appreciative, that is not the case as I do appreciate all the input and help on the forum. I was tweaked that it appears there is no direct support from Line6 for their products as there is with THD, where I was able to call and speak to someone directly. Again, I do appreciate the help!



Re: SpiderValve MKII HD100 & Spider Valve 4x12 cab with hotplate
by spaceatl on 2009-12-22 09:46:07

You have said thank you and such...I have no problem with your posts...I am just giving you my own opinion based on what it sounds like you want to do...I tend to be pretty straight to the point so I am sorry if I seem terse...I don't care whether you use these suggestions or not...That's all they are...for the pickings...Along with all the other information you get from other folks here and your own outside sources...

I strongly suggest you research and learn as much as you can before dropping $300 on a THD box...But the bottom line on any gear decision like this is that you like what you hear. That's really hard to quantify for something you can't tryout first...The desicion between a 16 ohm and 4 ohm less to do with what THD says IMO...Did you know that there is a much higher risk for flyback voltage running a Class AB Tube amp on the 16 ohm tap vs. 8 ohm and 4 ohm is even safer...It is high impedance or a no load (infinite impedance) condition that causes increased flyback voltage on the output transformer and it is too much flyback that blows output trannys 99.9% of the time...Class AB Tube amps tend to get a little darker as the impedance goes down...Brighter and thinner as it goes up...It's very subtle, but might be an important factor in your tone search...

My own opinion of that THD box is that it is extremely overpriced for what it truly is. If you just wanted to cut your power in half you can get a 4 ohm dummy load for about $20 or even less if you look hard and run that in series with your cab in 4 ohm mode. That would make it an 8 ohm load and half the power soaked out...Add another 8 ohm dummy load in parallel to that and you are back to 4 ohms with 75% of the power soaked out...Add a rotary switch and you have the same thing....You can DIY a hotplate for about $100 for a one off...Of course the fancy billet box adds quite a bit to the cost...The THDs work, but the way they soak power is not the same as speaker motor...A guitar amp is designed for a reactive load...A static load changes the tone...That's subjective...I don't like the way dummy loads affect the tone so I don't use them...

Here's a different approach for you on knocking the power down and the cost is about the same as a THD...Groove Tube Power Reducers...These are EL84 Power Tubes with an adapter for the 6L6 socket...This turns the amp to Class A and knocks it down to about a 30 watt amp...You even have the option on a 4 tube head to run 2 PRs and 2 6L6 5881...Basically that is exactly the same as a simulcalss Mesa Mark series...There is another brand called Yellow Jackets that are just a tad bit cheaper...My brother has a pair of GT PRs in his old Ampeg 60 watt combo and it took on a very nice Vibe...One advantage to these is that the amp becomes Class A and you do not have to bias the amp...If you have your bias set for your 6L6 tubes then you can swap them in and out as needed and the mixed mode is very interesting...



Re: SpiderValve MKII HD100 & Spider Valve 4x12 cab with hotplate
by MetalGuitar1 on 2009-12-22 15:06:03

Ok we're good. All info is good and the blunter/straight to the point  the better. I agree the THD is pricey but what isnt these days, i'm not exactly at this time up for replacing tubes on a new amp but will keep it handy for the future. I did check out the Weber and thats something to consider.



Re: SpiderValve MKII HD100 & Spider Valve 4x12 cab with hotplate
by cgtrox on 2009-12-23 07:44:35

The good thing about the Weber stuff is the multiple options, plus some have EQ.

cgtrox



RE: SpiderValve MKII HD100 & Spider Valve 4x12 cab with hotplate
by AndyParedes on 2009-12-29 16:45:32

The Spider Valve Mk II is not going to react the same way to a Hotplate as traditional tube power amps. As the front end of the tone is modeled, the power amp output is more "volume" based, and the Hotplate may not have the same effect you are expecting. There are a number of things you can do to lower your output volume, here are a couple options:

1) Try an acceptable mismatched ohm load (i.e. 4 ohm output from the head to a 16 ohm cabinet output). See the following link for more info:

Cabinet Connection and Ohm F.A.Q.

http://line6.com/community/docs/DOC-4410

2) Remove the two of the power tubes. See the following link for more info:

Spider Valve Presets, Specs, and FAQ

http://line6.com/community/docs/DOC-4540

If you need to run a hotplate you will take the 8 ohm output from the head to the 8 ohm hotplate, then the hotplate output to the 16 ohm mono input.

Please be sure to award Helpful and/or Correct points to community members who respond with helpful or correct answers!



Re: RE: SpiderValve MKII HD100 & Spider Valve 4x12 cab with hotplate
by MetalGuitar1 on 2009-12-30 15:33:20

Thanks Andy, Just to verify run cable from the output of the hd100 4ohm to the 4X12 cabinet with the switch in the 16ohm position. A 8ohm hotplate input to hotplate from 8ohm output on hd100 and again to the 4x12 cabinet with the switch in the 16ohm position. I will keep in mind the removal of tubes in case I don't like the sound of the above scenarios.



Re: SpiderValve MKII HD100 & Spider Valve 4x12 cab with hotplate
by lcrumbaugh on 2010-11-22 14:36:56

Yellow Jacket's question:  I just noticed this post.  I've asked before if anyone has ever put these into a Spider Valve 212 (mine is the mk1 - but it should work the same for both) and if they had any audio examples of the results.  This is something I would probably like to do, but before shelling out a couple hundred bucks for the yellow jackets and tubes I'd like to be able to hear the results.  My reasoning is then I'd be able to run the amp closer to 10 on the power tubes.   I knew someone with a real old 30 watt all tube Marshal with EL34s and on 10 (and on a 4x12 cabinet) it was almost the perfect club volume and sounded awsome and sustained forever.   thanks




The information above may not be current, and you should direct questions to the current forum or review the manual.