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Flextone III sound output
by doug95 on 2010-01-08 15:16:34

I dont know if its the sum of a combination of several parts that gives me the less than adequate tone from my amp or its something else I'm not aware of.

I have tried numerous methods of getting what I consider good tones from my Flextone III from going back to basics and trying combination after combination of models with cabs and effect settings, printing out other peoples settings from the web and trying those, to physical support from the outlet I purchased the amp from. Whilst all these strategies gave a certain level of tone I have nothing but the tutorial videos on the web site to compare them to and they don't stack up.

Is there a foolproof way of ending up with a tone that is comparable with those shown on the demo videos? Which ever tone I go for, clean or dirty the result is usually not what I expect. Firstly the volume of one of the 4 channel settings will always be lower than the others, even if I dont change the overall settings. The notes dont truly ring out but seem dull and as though they are coming from a really cheap combination.Sorry but I dont know any other way of describing the resultant tone.

I cant create a solid dirty tone, one that will, with a tweak here or there, fulfil the metal and rock genre, it always ends up too noisy and no amount of muting will hide the string buzz. The clean tone models on their own sound very hollow and tinny and need effects adding such as chorus, they just dont get anywhere close to the classic tones depicted in the demo videos.

I dont gig anymore and when I did it was acoustic and the appreciation of a critical audience is no longer available to gauge whether or not I'm getting it wrong and my ears are deceiving me.

These are the conditions I think may be contributing to the perceived lack of acceptable tone quality:

The amp was used when I bought it (6 months old).

I live in an appartment block.

Hardly played without head-set on.

Don't use volume up high.

Usually play within close proximity to amp.

I'm not saying that every note tone is unacceptable, I'm not, that would be almost an acceptable answer to the problem, if it didn't sound readsonable all the time I would just take it back and replace it with another set up. Part of the problem is that it doesn't seem consistant in it's setting, different areas of the fret board have good or bad tonal qualities and I dont think it's the instruments, though I can't say that is 100% certain. The instruments are maintained and set-up regularly by the same person (a local well-respected musician and repair shop) neither are they poor quality instruments, they are reasonably priced and branded, Fender, Ibanez, Hagstrom and Takemine.

So before I take the option of a complete change I would hope that a last ditch answer to my problem could be found and your thoughts on my queries could throw a light on them in other words HELP.

doug95



Re: Flextone III sound output
by s0c9 on 2010-01-11 08:12:16

doug,

the GOOD thing about the Flex3 is that its a modeling amp and is totally flexible.

the BAD thing about the Flex3 is that its a modeling amp and is totally flexible.

In all seriousness tho', tone is a person thing, and one persons nirvana is anothers hell.

That said... there is NO foolproof way of getting excellent tone from this amp. The factory patches in most modelers are over-processed to show examples of what the amp can do.. and are just startign points. . You have to tweak until you get it.

Once there, it will not let you down.

One issue I have will all modelers - and you referenced it- is the volume levels between patches. Why can't the factory volume level ALL patches in the amp when it goes out the door? NO.... they go up and down like yo-yo's !  You will have to use one of the editors to volume level all the patches.

Find your quietest clean patch and set its level to where you want it. Then adjust all the other patches so that your drive and lead tones are just a little stronger output.

You may also be suffering from the FM effect - that humans perceive different frequencies at different levels. Very common issue when setting up patches.

String buzz is just that..that is not something an amp can hide, and implies your guitar needs work.

Have you backed up your patches and tried a factory reset ?  Perhaps its so screwed up you need to start over ?

What kind of music do you play ?



Re: Flextone III sound output
by doug95 on 2010-01-11 12:45:47

Hi s0c9

Thanks for the time and thought provoking answer, its good to get an answer that goes some way to giving a solution to a problem without unwanted superiority.

Firstly, my music tastes are very wide, for almost 45 years I was hooked on anything acoustic from Ralph McTell to the Beatles, child of the 60's. But when I turned 60 3 years ago I decided to try electrification and now I'm hooked on that, still revert to the oldies every now and then.

I am completely self taught except for a few months with a tutor once every 2 weeks, recently. I am trying to stick to a broad range of styles and what I play totally depends on what I hear so it could be ACDC, Jason Mraz or a piece that has a new technique to learn.

All my guitars are standard issuses Strat, Ibanez, Hagstrom and my trusty 26 year old Takemine 12 string which is played with only 6 strings as I found originally the broad fret board help me play easier, more room between the strings, unfortunately recently have developed quite painful arthritis in a couple of fingers on my fretting hand so stretching and holding notes on a big stretch (5 or 6 frets) is at times hard to maintain, no pain no gain.

Lets get back to the post;

String buzz, I didn't quite mean what you think I meant. Badly put, What I was trying to get over was the prolonged string noise sustained after playing a chord, note or any passage of music, even when picking the guitar up it rings. Can't seem to settle on a tone that will allow for a clean note/s to be played without the continuation of string noise, even when muted. Has this bothered you?

I think I have finally got 2 tones (rock/metal), don't really know the difference between a lot of the close knit electonic music genres like heavy metal, metal, new rock etc. on how they differ in tone even when it come to artists as diverse as Foo Fighters and Black Sabbath I generally play tunes by these with the same or a similar tone arrangement, am I way out?

Heavy/rock tones

a) Model=Treadplate(yellow) (cab) Gib Explorer setting -: Drive=7, bass=4.5, mid=8.5, treble=7, c.vol=9, reverb=4,Delay=Digital on 2nd 3rd of knob (room or hall I think), Chorus=15 to, Mas Vol=2.5.

b) Model= Line6 Insane, (cab) Treadplate setting, everything else as above except FX, Sweep Echo and Chorus.

These give good tones and I can play riffs and solos from easily recognisable metal and rock hits, may not quite have the same sound but can't be mistaken. They still give what I call, after play string noise, but not as pronounced. Any comments?

Patch saving, what must I do and what do I need, have Line6Monkey and Edit software on laptop but no cable to connect, which one would I need, if I go down that route?

Clean tone, only way for my ears to hear a clean tone that doesn't sound tinny is to include chorus which gives a tone note quite what I think a clean tone should sound like. I would like a sound such as Mark Knofler on Sultans Of Swing or Harrison on Can't Buy Me Love but without a pedal you can't play the solos and the chords at the same setting or do you just reduce the volume?

Anyway thanks again for the constructive comments, anymore would be appreciated so if you have thoughts on possible Clean Tone settings using the Line6 Flextone with any of the above guitars I'd love to try them out and send a rendition, if I can record and copy.

doug95

Would you advise a fbv or not. Would you suggest any other piece of equip such as a wha wha pedal?



Re: Flextone III sound output
by spaceatl on 2010-01-11 12:56:31

FBV shortboard is perfect for the amp...An cost effective solution is the Behringer FCB1010 midi pedal...There is a wah in the amp you can get at with either...Based on a Vox wah...I think it sounds pretty darn good...

String noise? hmmm....Have you tried killing the delay and/or reverb to see if this is part of the problem...Anything losse in the guitar itself...I always have to put a silk hanky on my tremolo springs....

I think this amp benefits a lot from adding some stomps...I got my best tones out of my Flex 3 XL when I stuck my old ADA MP-1 in front of it and used it as a programable EQ...The built in EQ is ok but I could never quite get it exactly where I wanted it...

Edit...

M-Audio UNO (USB midi interface)



Re: Flextone III sound output
by doug95 on 2010-01-11 13:19:50

Hi Spaceatl

Thanks for the info. Noise is consistent across all instruments so there should be no problem with individual guitar. Describe in more detail as to the silk scarf fix. There seems however a fault with the tremolo arm, when wound full into the bridge it seems theres not enough movement and a small variance in pitch whereas if it's backed off it's too loose and I need to move it a lot before it comes into play.

What exactly do you mean when you say "theres a wha in the amp you can get at...?"

Is it worthwhile investing in the cable as other forum members don't rate the Edit software?

FBV, are they used strictly for other tones or can they be used for FX sounds as well, dont know if they take over fully from effects pedals?

doug95



Re: Flextone III sound output
by s0c9 on 2010-01-11 14:03:34

doug95 wrote:

Patch saving, what must I do and what do I need, have Line6Monkey and Edit software on laptop but no cable to connect, which one would I need, if I go down that route?

Clean tone, only way for my ears to hear a clean tone that doesn't sound tinny is to include chorus which gives a tone note quite what I think a clean tone should sound like. I would like a sound such as Mark Knofler on Sultans Of Swing or Harrison on Can't Buy Me Love but without a pedal you can't play the solos and the chords at the same setting or do you just reduce the volume?

doug95

Would you advise a fbv or not. Would you suggest any other piece of equip such as a wha wha pedal?

I've posted here [ad nauseum] about NOT using Monkey with the Flex. It does not support patch editing, but will back up your patches to a totally un-recoverable/unuseable file should you chose to do so. That file is useless. I suggest that you do NOT use Monkey for anything on the Flex - even to upgrade the firmware (most recent version is 1.1 which you may already have).  Use Line6 Edit [Java based] or Tweakwiz [C++ based, from vetaville.nl].

You will need some form of MIDI interface from your computer to use either. Many of us have had great success with the M-Audio Midisport UNO - a USB-to-MIDI device for Windows platforms. Worked well for me on XP, XP64, Vista32 and Win7 x64.

Without hearing what you are hearing its hard to audibly perceive what you describe as tinny [the challenge of expression in print], my guess is that you need to get your PC and editor software up and running. I have never tweaked my patches using the amp itsefl.. too darn cumbersome and limiting. I'd take that approach first.

I'd also imagine that playing without other instruments in the "mix" tends to make one far more cricital (and aware) of any imperfections.

FWIW - Here's some "real life" guitar examples, showing a range of sounds.

They were recorded live about 3.5 yrs ago. Band has had many personnel changes and direction changes since then. Still, all guitar work is on the Flex3.

American Band

Breath

Dance With Me

Mustang Sally

TwistAndShout

If you intend to play gigs, an FBV is a MUST !!  Rock solid steel. Had mine clsoe to 5 yrs. Amp too !



Re: Flextone III sound output
by spaceatl on 2010-01-11 14:09:35

The springs of a tremolo in a guitar can resonate...and you can hear it in the speakers...If you wrap the springs with a silk hanky you can dampen the springs a bit...Tremolos are far from perfect and there are lots of little annoyances to deal with depending on the tremolo...If you like leaving the tremolo cover on the guitar you can make a little spring pillow on the cover plate to dampen the springs...lots of approaches on that one...I have even had pickup rings and springs resonate where it could be heard...put your ear on the guitar and knock on the body with you knuckles and see if you hear something like reverb...A guitar properly setup for high gain should have little decay with a test like this...Tracing down where the noises are coming from is the fun part...

Noise...hmmm....Is this a strat? single coils...have you tried using the noise gate...You kinda need edit to tweak it...

The FBV shortboard is nothing more than a controller...everything is in the amp...Since the amp is midi controllable there is the option of programing a midi foot controller to control the Flextone...It makes the amp much more usable IMO...

There are parameters that can only be set in the Edit software...It's a must to get the amp totally dialed in IMO...You can set the FX pre/post switch without it...mic selection for the direct out is also only in the software...UNO has been the suggested interface for a long while...I have one...works fine...

Basically the amp has enough FX, but it does not have anything for gain stomps other than a compressor...Pushing the amp models with a conventional tube screamer responds a lot like the real thing...the models are fairly close...The Plexi models don't have a lot of gain...The real plexi doesn't either...



Re: Flextone III sound output
by doug95 on 2010-01-12 12:21:15

Cheers s0c9

This info goes a long way to helping me not solve but come to terms with the inadequcies of both myself and the instrument/guitars combination. Thanks for the examples when you hear well recorded solid sounds it brings it home to me how not solid or pleasing to the ear are most of the tones I'm getting out of my combinations. They sound thin, piercing and not even having other instruments for the blend would imo sound any better, but I get where your coming from.

I'm afraid, it seems, my knowledge of setting up a good tone be it heavy metal or cool clean is a little short on the knowhow, your level of ability at this depth is too much for me and it scares me to think I would need to have your level of expertise to deliver an enjoyable spectrum of sounds that a listening audience possibly some with good ears for a tune. I would like to be able to entertain with some confidence knowing that the instrument sounds were ok.

Don't quite grasp what you mean when you say "I have never tweaked my patches with the amp itself... because it's far to cumbersome and limiting". I may be missing the whole idea of tweaking and patch editing but I thought the amp held the digital tone patch and an edited patch would be downloaded direct to the amp from the pc or laptop, is there a better way? Can you clarify?

The use of fbv's is apparently a personal thing as other members of the forum are telling me I don't need one as the amp is set up to do the job. I'm not saying each opinion is right or wrong just to the uninitiated, confusing.

Thanks again, this honest, to the point no frills support is priceless.

doug95

ps. If you have any more such jems please feel free to throw them my way with a complete idiots guide.

pps. Is the Flextone considered by musicians to be a good choice or not...honestly!!



Re: Flextone III sound output
by doug95 on 2010-01-12 13:35:37

Thanks spaceatl

the solid useable info I'm getting is great but, because I'm not a seasoned performer some things in the description just go over my head or the picture is a little blurry trying to imagine the explanations, for instance, is the silk hanky used internally or externally? This may seem niave but its an honest question.

If in most users opinions the amp requires tweaking a lot to come close to tones wanted would someone like me be better off with some other non-modelling combo like a not so big, reasonable half-stack or are there ineptitudinally intuitive (excuse the descriptive) instructions for using the editing software other than those at Line6 support (sorry to diss the maker) as these don't get me raring to go?

With the guitar (Ibanez) hooked up to the amp and a heavy metal tone chosen on the memory channel when I switch on the amp the amount of increasing what I would call feedback is deafening no matter in which direction I point the guitar. If I mute the sound then release my hand the feedback returns. The gate is active and this is without the strings being played. I also tried your suggestion of tapping the body but because of the feedback noise I could not distinguish what I was listening for. When I do have the opportunity to do what you suggest the noise resonates through the whole guitar body. On reading these symptoms it almost sounds as though I'm experiencing beginners faults at a playing level, maybe some of my techniques are not stage ready but its still the underlying guitar tone that makes for a poor over all experience and it's not a bad workman calling his tools 'I don't think'.

Sorry to seem to be giving up the ghost but whilst all the information given has been invaluable and gratefully received it still hasn't answered my initial question I may still be searching for a not so tarnished grail.

doug95

ps. If you can still dig out a winning idea please don't be slow in informing me. Thanks...



Re: Flextone III sound output
by spaceatl on 2010-01-12 14:11:41

Welcome to playing around feedback...It is something you will always have to cope with and control...Here are few odds and ends...

Spring Dampening

The basic concept is like that of a piano...You need something soft to absorb the vibration of the tremolo springs...I have never really seen anything off the shelf that does this...The basic idea is using a small pillow and either putting it on the underside of the springs in the guitar body or on the spring cover plate...Silk or Satin works nice because it is slick and you don't wnat the fabric getting in the springs changing the tension...

If the trem is floating and the spings are more stretched, you get more vibration...

Dead Guitar (At least what should be dead)

I meant that you do this with the amp off with your ear on the body of the guitar...knock on the body and see how much you hear after the knock...That's what you need to dampen...Running at high gain amplifies everything in the guitar...Pickup mounting springs can resonate to feedback...Non of my guitars have adjustable pickups...I mount my pickups directly to the body itself...

Pickup Potting

If you are getting uncontrollable squealing then you might have a pickup with bad potting...Potting goes bad...I have not re-potted a pickup since the 80s...I just buy new ones instead...Using a gate can band-aide the problem, but it does not fix the root cause...

Open back combos

Open back combos are just about as bad a speaker cabinet design as there is outside of bolting a speaker to a flat board with a hole in it and the Flextone 3 has almost no back at all...Placement in the room is everything because the low end coming off the back folds over most often cancels out low end...The best thing you can do is get the amp up off the ground a little and near a wall...You have to play around with it...open backs are great for voicing mids...Not so much for chugga chugga...That's why metal heads use closed back cabs...they thump...the low end of an open back is best compared to a well executed f.a.r.t in my opinion...

Quite a few guys have closed the back on Flextone IIIs and noted improvement...

Personally, I ended up changing the speakers in my Flex 3 XL and modified it to run a sealed 212 cab in tandem...Basically, if you are trying to model a 412, then in my mind you need 412s in a similar configuration to pull it off convinceingly at gig levels...



RE: Flextone III sound output
by AndyParedes on 2010-01-12 14:25:40

Hello,

Space and Soc have given some excellent advice on helping you get what you are looking for. Here are some other links that may help:

Creating and Balancing Tones

http://line6.com/community/docs/DOC-4537

MIDI: Functionality, Control, and Connectivity with Line 6 devices

http://line6.com/community/docs/DOC-4287

Line 6 Edit FAQ

http://line6.com/community/docs/DOC-3783

Line 6 Edit: Transferring Patches (Downloaded or Created)

http://line6.com/community/docs/DOC-3584

Video Tutorial: Downloading and Syncing Tones from Custom Tone with Line 6 Edit and POD XT Live

http://line6.com/community/docs/DOC-1424

As this is a subjective question (not supported by Line 6) we will close this thread, but please feel free to continue the conversation with other end users.



RE: Flextone III sound output
by AndyParedes on 2010-01-12 14:28:47

Hello,

Space and Soc have given some excellent advice on helping you get what you are looking for. Here are some other links that may help:

Creating and Balancing Tones

http://line6.com/community/docs/DOC-4537

MIDI: Functionality, Control, and Connectivity with Line 6 devices

http://line6.com/community/docs/DOC-4287

Line 6 Edit FAQ

http://line6.com/community/docs/DOC-3783

Line 6 Edit: Transferring Patches (Downloaded or Created)

http://line6.com/community/docs/DOC-3584

Video Tutorial: Downloading and Syncing Tones from Custom Tone with Line 6 Edit and POD XT Live

http://line6.com/community/docs/DOC-1424

As this is a subjective question (not supported by Line 6) we will close this thread, but please feel free to continue the conversation with other end users.



Re: RE: Flextone III sound output
by doug95 on 2010-01-12 15:21:05

Line6Andy

Thanks for jumping in on the discussion, this seems to be leading to work and money, short of time not much spare cash. I thought music was supposed to be enjoyable now it seems to be in the hands of electronics junkies. Will perservere though music is my main drug.

Thanks again

doug95



Re: Flextone III sound output
by s0c9 on 2010-01-14 07:33:09

doug,

Where to start..??

Those samples I posted were recorded "live" on a 4-track; instruments, vox, bass and drums, and mixed down. They're nothing special [IMHO]. I posted them to give you an idea of how the Flex can sound in a full band mix. That situtation is different from yours.  I've IM'd you some limks to newer [un-finished] stuff.

doug95 wrote:

I'm afraid, it seems, my knowledge of setting up a good tone be it heavy metal or cool clean is a little short on the knowhow, your level of ability at this depth is too much for me and it scares me to think I would need to have your level of expertise to deliver an enjoyable spectrum of sounds that a listening audience possibly some with good ears for a tune. I would like to be able to entertain with some confidence knowing that the instrument sounds were ok.

Sounds like you think I'm some kind of pro. I've only been playing guitar for about 12 yrs and lead guitar for the last 5 yrs. Those tracks I posted were recorded 3.5 yrs ago. Yeah, I practice a lot [continuous improvement], would like to get better, but have no illusions about my limitations. But, there's nothing quite like jumping in and getting your feet wet.  And I'm 50+  If I can do it, so can you. My advice is to pull down some patches from customtone.com and see what they sound like. If its something you like, tweak the patch until you get the sound you want. Save it to your amp. That's how I started out.

You have a modeling amp... every patch you download will sound a little different from the original version, as your guitar is different. Guitar, pickups, playing style all effect the tone on teh amp. Try playing one of the factory presets with a couple of different guitars. They will all sound a little different - you get the picture.

Yes, you will have to work. The Flex will handle most of what you throw at it, but factory patches are merely a starting point.

doug95 wrote:

Don't quite grasp what you mean when you say "I have never tweaked my patches with the amp itself... because it's far to cumbersome and limiting". I may be missing the whole idea of tweaking and patch editing but I thought the amp held the digital tone patch and an edited patch would be downloaded direct to the amp from the pc or laptop, is there a better way? Can you clarify?

What I meant is that you really need to edit your patches using your computer - not sit in front of the amp and do so. You have access to more parameters using the PC editors.

doug95 wrote:

The use of fbv's is apparently a personal thing as other members of the forum are telling me I don't need one as the amp is set up to do the job. I'm not saying each opinion is right or wrong just to the uninitiated, confusing.

Those folks are slightly mis-informed.  Do you only want access to 4 patches ?  No??

Then you need the FBV.  The Flex stores 36 patches in 9 banks of 4. The buttons on the amp only let you access the 4 patches in the most recently selected bank - Line6 probably did that to sell FBV's .  You cannot change banks from the amp itself, so your are limited to those 4 patches without an FBV.  Sure, you can edit, save, access and play all 36 from your PC, but you can't get to them unless your computer is connected to your amp at all times - not really practical if you gig, but OK for home use I guess. If you plan to gig.. an FBV [or an equivalent device] is a MUST.



Re: Flextone III sound output
by doug95 on 2010-01-14 12:38:45

Hi again s0c9

Crackingly helpful info but, and I know exactly what you will think, lazy git, in words of 1 syllable how do I 'pull down some patches from Custometone.com'?

Once these patches have been pulled down and edited what is the process of loading in to the amp?

Agree with you on the fbv, takes me ages to decide on where money is going and what I think I need but I'm 90% there on the fbv. Is the Line6 best value or are there better choices out there?

Going back to tones, different guitars and getting better with constant practice that doesn't seem to work with me for weeks I can see improvement then no matter how much I concentrate I cant sound good for toffee. The strings on each of my guitars feel and sound unattached, not together and discordant even though they are pretty well in tune. I can only describe it as though there are massive spaces in between each string and I'm missing the note all the time.

Hear from you soon

doug95



Re: Flextone III sound output
by s0c9 on 2010-01-14 13:03:59

OK.

#1 - you need Line6 Edit or Tweakwiz install and working on your PC>

#2 - you need a MIDI interface to the Flex... also working.

Then go here.. http://line6.com/customtone/browse/flextoneii/

Finda patch you like the look of, and save it to your PC. Make sure its "compatible" witht the Flex. Many are not !

I save all mine to a "patch" folder under my line6 edit directory.  [For example C:\Program Files\Line6\Line 6 Edit\Tones]

I then start the editor, make sure it connects to the amp OK, then load [open] the patch that I just downloaded.

The patch is loaded into the "edit buffer". I can then audition [play it], tweak, adjust, etc.

No changes are made to the amp until I WRITE the patch to one of the 36 locationson the amp.

I can load/open and audition and save back to PC as many patches as I like, and never make a single change to the amp.

Or, I can write all of those changes to locations on the amp.  My choice.

doug95 wrote:

Going back to tones, different guitars and getting better with constant practice that doesn't seem to work with me for weeks I can see improvement then no matter how much I concentrate I cant sound good for toffee. The strings on each of my guitars feel and sound unattached, not together and discordant even though they are pretty well in tune. I can only describe it as though there are massive spaces in between each string and I'm missing the note all the time.

LOL - sounds like the age old problem we all have. What !?? There used to be only 6 strings on this guitar.

We are never quite happy with how we think we play.

That's why many of us gig -- you'll find out pretty quick if you suck or not. Perseverance lad !!  



Re: Flextone III sound output
by doug95 on 2010-01-14 13:41:17

s0c9

Have downloaded Line6Edit from Tweakfreak in readiness to pull down some patches. Can you view attachment?

doug95



Re: Flextone III sound output
by s0c9 on 2010-01-14 15:02:29

Select the MIDI interface..

Should then populate the list if available [supported] devices..  should find a Flextone Series III on it.

I'm not at home - won't be for a few hours yet - so can't confirm exactly what you should see.



Re: Flextone III sound output
by doug95 on 2010-01-15 15:19:35

Cheers s0c9

Soon be clear on what to do, with your help.

Still not able to satisfy my search for a tone that will do for a clear tone (without adding chorus or echo) or a heavy metal tone that will deliver on all counts,solo's, rhythm, muting and AH (not specifically attributed to one artist). Even after a factory reset.

IMO there is very little in the tonality between several amp models settings and as we have suggested before the inconsistancy between the volume when choosing between the yellow or red options is a pain.

My master vol is set at 3 and my channel vol is set at 6.5 which seems loud enough when playing with headphones on, if I lift the master vol even 1 more notch the higher pitch notes start to become ear piercing and uncomfortable. Is that a problem when playing in a hall with vol turned up?

If I find a tone that sounds ok for playing power chords the soloing or improv quality does not match the rhythm quality same for clean tones the chord tones may be ok but every tone patch I create is either too echoy or theres to much chorus and each one sounds like a slightly different version of the

Do you have a default range of settings for your EQ tone knobs (Bass, Mid, Treble and the Drive) or do you set them critically for each tone patch.? Even these, to my ear, don't alter distinctifly, setting to setting, apart from Drive (obviously).

A closer description of the feel that I get from the stringing on all my electric guitars is that they are at the wrong tension (too loose) + sound from frets on strings 4,5 and 6 from 12th fret and higher is very flat or what you may call dead with a slight buzz, certainly not crisp or ringing.

Do you feel the need to incorporate fx to reach a good tone?

To change from a rhytm tone to a lead tone should I be looking at having these as separate tone patches to be selected when required (fbv) or quickly alter the guitar (pick-up and volume)?

Which is the most sensible option?

Thanks again for your continuing support

doug95



Re: Flextone III sound output
by stringman340 on 2010-01-29 11:29:14

doug,

Your headphones may be the source of the tinning tone. I've written patches through phones at home and had to completely re-write them at the gig - no lows, etc.. Try and find time to do all this editing with your sound coming through the speakers, and your master set to AT LEAST 4-5, louder if you can. There should lie the golden tone zone. Good luck.



Re: Flextone III sound output
by spaceatl on 2010-01-29 12:02:24

Stringman has a good point about raising the Master and lowering the channel volume...On my Flextone IIIXL I am even more radical than that...I tweak my Flextone with the Master Full...I use a DB meter in the loop also...Basically, I make sure that my patch is right at the clipping point of the power amp...That is very obvious with this amp...Good ole SS clipping...At gigs I was generally running around 7 or so...Outside gigs and large venues are tougher...The Flextone 3 has just barely enough power...But it works...

If you want to 'feel' what I mean...take the AC30 model or the blackface twin model with your favorite cab....Turn the channel volume all the way down, run the master up to 9 and get yourself some healthy volume...What I have found is that this really improves the dynamics...You know, the jump out of the box feel that one gets with an old Twin...This is not proper gain structure as this approach does increase the noise floor a little bit...But the power amp is pretty quiet anyway...Certainly quieter than any tube amp...

In terms of finding tone I recomend this approach...Pick amp model, flatten the EQ (noon) and then pick the cab that gets you closest to the tone you are looking for so the EQ adjustments are as modest as possible...Radical EQ does NOT work well on this amp and EQ response is completely different on every amp model...So listen with your ears, not your eyes....I highly recomend and outboard EQ...I used an ADA MP-1 with my Flexy as a midi programable EQ...I never was able to get my flexy just right without an outboard EQ...Quite a few folks have EQs in the loop that are used for room correction...This can save you a lot of time venue to venue...

One other thing...When I tweak my Flextone I do so using nearfield monitors and cans...I check it on the amp, but most of my tweaking is done on a flat system...What I found in my trek was that I had to change the speakers and add a sealed 212 cab to have any hope of rendering a 412 model at gig volume...An open back 212 will never render a 412 at a gig...Sure, it can in a bedroom...To get a thump you can feel you have to have a closed back cab...This is just the physics of cabinet design...A half open/half sealed is the only way I know to have a chance in helll of render a 412 cab or a 212 open back...

This is all just my own opinion...I think the Flexy is a fantastic heart of a rig...But it needed some help to get where I wanted it...



Re: Flextone III sound output
by jimbobnufc on 2011-04-06 15:41:28

I know exactly how you feel with this amp, it has great gig volume but can never find that perfect sound or close to. i found the clean channel to be ok i use the joe satriani fred bridge  humbucker in all my guitars, the pick up ooozes mid tones to die for and can roll the volume back to lose grit in you distortion but not overall volume, anyway back to flextone sound, i ended up finding a great clean sound through the line 6 clean setting and needed a distortion to compliment it. after trying several times to find one in my amp i opted to buy a pedal. the best i could find on the maket is the joe satriani satchurator (im not plugging joe it just seems the man has such good ear for tones) the sound i have been getting are like tones from the gods, i play alot of van halen stuff and can pretty much find as close as i have to the brown sound.  from the classic hendrix sound to your 80,s 90,s rock its great. its not so hot for thash. give it a try




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