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M13 Power Problem
by pepperbeluga on 2009-03-26 14:18:14

I have a power problem with my M13. I've had it for about a month and until now it worked flawlessly. But a couple days ago it started powering off and on on its own. I've checked my electricity outlet and connections and everything is workng properly. What could be causing the problem? Do I have a defective unit? Thanks in advance.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by m13beta on 2009-03-27 18:26:24

Product Manager for M13 here. Is it still doing it? Or did it stop and now it is fine?



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-03-27 18:28:26

Woops, that was me asking.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by nicjimbass on 2009-03-29 07:38:06

The same thing happened to me the other night, but I was able to practice with the band for about 4-5 hours yesterday with no problems, so it looks like it was a fluke.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by pepperbeluga on 2009-03-29 10:15:26

Thanks guys for your comments. I used my M13 last night for about three hours and had no problems. Hopefully, as nicjimbass commented, it was a fluke. I'm really hoping for the best as I REALLY like the sounds I am getting from my effects modeler and can't really think of any other unit with such great features (especially at this pricepoint). Still, if it is a relatively common problem, do you have any idea of what may cause it? First time I noticed the problem on mine I had the tuner on (I use it as a mute function when changing instruments or when I step away to answer the phone or something) but I tried the same thing last night without any trouble. An additional question for nicjimbass: are you using the M13 with a bass guitar? I'm both a guitar and bass player and have tried some effects on bass... it is FANTASTIC! Well, thanks again for your help. I'll stay in touch and let you know if the problem has, indeed, been fixed on its own.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-03-29 15:38:52

I am trying to figure it out. A few people have seen this and it is never permanent. I saw it once in my office, My unit was on for a while, I was working not looking at it then I heard the relays kicking on and off and I looked and it powered down and then back up. Hasn't done it since. I leave it on all the time. So weird.

Keep me updated if it happens again. Or if any of you guys see it, let me know.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by alezzblezz on 2009-04-10 17:06:32

I had exactly the same problem last time with my band (M13 power on and off anytimes with "clics"). I tried to unplug all other stuff just to have only the M13 powered and same problem. Once at home, I tried again and all was ok. I made a test yesterday, letting the M13 playing a loop during 2 or 3h, and changing settings sometimes and nothing, all was ok. Maybe a pb due to the power supply or due to the vibes of bass ?

I will try next time with my band and let you know...



Re: M13 Power Problem
by kruzty on 2009-04-14 10:37:47

I just had something happen to me last night.  I was at rehearsal and we were talking, then I looked down and my m13 was off.  I thought maybe someone walked by and hit the power cord or something.  Nope - it was plugged in and the unit was on.  I cycled the power switch - nothing.  I unplugged/plugged-in the power going into the unit - still nothing.  Finally, I went to the outlet and unplugged the the m13 power from it and plugged it back in and it came back on (and stayed on).

Is there some protection in the power supply that would do this?  I always have it plugged into my Furman Power Factor Pro, so I wouldn't expect a surge or anything to reach the m13 power supply.  I'm just not sure why I had to unplug it from the outlet to get it to work...



Re: M13 Power Problem
by pepperbeluga on 2009-04-14 15:51:22

Thanks for your replies. Since starting this thread, luckily, I haven't had the problem again. I am still using my M13 with guitar and bass, using the tuner as a mute function and playing at home for about two to four hours almost everyday. Even though the switch off has seemed to happen to quite a few folks, everyone seems to agree that it isn't a recurring problem and it is hopefully, just a fluke. Just as Kruzty, I have my M13 connected to a power conditioner, I don't know if this has anything to do with the fluke (I would think the opposite, though). It's good to know that if it ever ocurred again we may be able to control the problem by unplugging the unit from the outlet. Anyway, I'll keep posting as I find more (or not) about this. As an additional note, I connected my M13 to two tube amps so that I could work in stereo and... it was absolutely AMAZING! I couldn't believe the tone I got out of this set up. Thanks again everyone.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by knightage on 2009-05-11 21:25:52

Hi all,

I've had the M13 for about a week, and I just had this problem...unit LED flash red, shuts off, intermittently goes on/off, hearing relay switching, etc.  I updated to 1.07 when I first got the unit, before I ever plugged in a guitar cable.  I have had no problems until tonight.  I was wondering if anyone has seen the problem re-occur, or if anyone had found a root cause of the issue.

Rich, I know you're out there...  Your responses to all of postings here and on the gear page have been impressive.  Any update on this?

I've realy enjoyed the unit, and I was ready to actually gig with it this Saturday, but I can't afford for this "fluke" to happen.  Looks like I'll be taking my old pedalbaord for at least 1 more gig...<sigh>

Thanks!



Re: M13 Power Problem
by pepperbeluga on 2009-05-11 21:57:07

Hello there! I haven't had the problem ever since I started this thread. I've been trying to use the unit for about two to four hours, at least 4 times a week and no problem. I haven't actually updated the firmware, but the unit has been nothing but fun ever since. No one has really addressed the possible reason for the fluke, but at this point I am not as worried as I was at the beginning. Keep using the unit extensively and let us know if it happens again... hopefully, as most of the replies, it is not a recurring problem.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-05-12 00:39:55

knightage wrote:

Hi all,

I've had the M13 for about a week, and I just had this problem...unit LED flash red, shuts off, intermittently goes on/off, hearing relay switching, etc.  I updated to 1.07 when I first got the unit, before I ever plugged in a guitar cable.  I have had no problems until tonight.  I was wondering if anyone has seen the problem re-occur, or if anyone had found a root cause of the issue.

Rich, I know you're out there...  Your responses to all of postings here and on the gear page have been impressive.  Any update on this?

I've realy enjoyed the unit, and I was ready to actually gig with it this Saturday, but I can't afford for this "fluke" to happen.  Looks like I'll be taking my old pedalbaord for at least 1 more gig...<sigh>

Thanks!

AAaaaauuuggghhhh........

Well my friend, I don't think you will ever see the problem again. It is so crazy and random. I have two unit here at the shop that I have tried to get to do it again and nothing. So frustrating. I haven't keep up with this thread guys, sorry about that. But I am going to forward this to the head of electrical and it may help him.

As I said, you may never see it again. One thing is for sure, it only happens for a few minutes max and goes away. That is why it is so hard to track down.

Anyone else who has seen this please post here. Thank you.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by alezzblezz on 2009-05-12 01:57:49

Hi all,

It seems lots of guy had this pb only one time. Concerning me, I had it one month ago (see my post) and had it again last week, but only for 4-5 sec. After some random shutdowns, and switch noises, all was ok.

In my opinion, there is a problems with bass vibrations. Maybe some electric components could'nt resist to that. But this is ennoying if you play guitar effects in a Drum& Bass band...

Please post and report as much as possible. Line6 must be informed of that and publish an official news, on recall all M13 to solve the problem. I don't know if I must go back to the shop to change it or wait.

Regards,

Alezz.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-05-12 03:40:59

alezzblezz wrote:

Hi all,

It seems lots of guy had this pb only one time. Concerning me, I had it one month ago (see my post) and had it again last week, but only for 4-5 sec. After some random shutdowns, and switch noises, all was ok.

In my opinion, there is a problems with bass vibrations. Maybe some electric components could'nt resist to that. But this is ennoying if you play guitar effects in a Drum& Bass band...

Please post and report as much as possible. Line6 must be informed of that and publish an official news, on recall all M13 to solve the problem. I don't know if I must go back to the shop to change it or wait.

Regards,

Alezz.

I am the product manager for M13. I am the one who posted right before you. I do not need you guys to post and repost to be informed or post official news. We have only seen a few guys report this. I am already not ok with it happening and as I posted it happened to me on two different units. Now by contrast, we have hundreds of artists using the unit on major stages and never a problem from them. I would hear about that believe me. If my buddy in the Pumpkins had this problem even once, I would have gotten a frantic call. But they have 4 running on stage for a month tour and no problems. Also there are thousands of these out there at this point, so it is not a rampant problem but again, one I am not ok with.

When my unit did it about two months ago, it was on my floor plugged in and I hadn't touched it in a couple days and I was working away and all off a sudden I hear this clicking noise and turned around and it was flickering and shut off. I got an engineer in to see it before it stopped. We can't make it do it again. We put it on our shaker table that is much more abusive than any stage or ride in a truck and we couldn't make it do it. It is so frustrating.

So Alezz, can you think of anything that the two times it did it to you had in common? What did you do to get it to stop the second time?



Re: M13 Power Problem
by alezzblezz on 2009-05-12 08:00:50

Hi,

Sorry if you feel my response a little bit aggressive. I'm french and I try to do my best in English. I'm a lover for Line6 effects for most years, had MM4, DL4 and DM4 before, plus a Toneport and all are great materials. I advice everybody to choose Line6 effects.

So, to return to the main discussion. The first time it happends, it did it 10 or 15 min. I tried to power off and off, unplug the power supply, shake the M13 and power off everything in the room changing of plug but nothing. After that, I kept the M13 to go to home, I plugged it and all was ok. The day after, I played it during 2 hours, and I finally recorded a loop and let the stuff plying during maybe 2 hours more. All was ok.

I played after that during 2 or 3 weeks without any problem. Until last week.

A friend wanted to test his old Fender amp. He is looking for a good overdrive pedal. So, I plugged the M13 into the amp, playing and testing multiple effetcs during 1h30. Amazing sound, no problem. And one time, the problem occured again but just during few seconds. This time, I was sitting on a chair and I saw the power supply cable was under, but not wiped. I put the cable aside and all was ok again...

The common thing between those two dates was the volume of bass. That's why I wonder if there is a pb with vibrations...

So, the only thing that I can't decide if I must go back to the shop to exchange the M13 or keep it. I can't play anymore without it (I'm maybe a M13 addict?) and I'm afraid to wait a lot of time before having a new one. Maybe could you advice me on this topic.

I will try to keep my camera every time I play, so I could take a video if needed ?

Anyway, thanks for your help !

Kind regards.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-05-13 00:45:08

alezzblezz wrote:

Hi,

Sorry if you feel my response a little bit aggressive. I'm french and I try to do my best in English. I'm a lover for Line6 effects for most years, had MM4, DL4 and DM4 before, plus a Toneport and all are great materials. I advice everybody to choose Line6 effects.

So, to return to the main discussion. The first time it happends, it did it 10 or 15 min. I tried to power off and off, unplug the power supply, shake the M13 and power off everything in the room changing of plug but nothing. After that, I kept the M13 to go to home, I plugged it and all was ok. The day after, I played it during 2 hours, and I finally recorded a loop and let the stuff plying during maybe 2 hours more. All was ok.

I played after that during 2 or 3 weeks without any problem. Until last week.

A friend wanted to test his old Fender amp. He is looking for a good overdrive pedal. So, I plugged the M13 into the amp, playing and testing multiple effetcs during 1h30. Amazing sound, no problem. And one time, the problem occured again but just during few seconds. This time, I was sitting on a chair and I saw the power supply cable was under, but not wiped. I put the cable aside and all was ok again...

The common thing between those two dates was the volume of bass. That's why I wonder if there is a pb with vibrations...

So, the only thing that I can't decide if I must go back to the shop to exchange the M13 or keep it. I can't play anymore without it (I'm maybe a M13 addict?) and I'm afraid to wait a lot of time before having a new one. Maybe could you advice me on this topic.

I will try to keep my camera every time I play, so I could take a video if needed ?

Anyway, thanks for your help !

Kind regards.

No problem. Internet makes it hard to feel the true emotions. I would hang on to it for now. Stay tuned to this thread, we will figure it out.

Can you clarify this sentence. What did you mean? this may help me.

This time, I was sitting on a chair and I saw the power supply cable was under, but not wiped. I put the cable aside and all was ok again...


Re: M13 Power Problem
by alezzblezz on 2009-05-13 05:31:11

What I meant is maybe the power cable was under the foot of my chair, but I'm not sure...



Re: M13 Power Problem
by ggb8 on 2009-05-23 07:59:53

Just got my M13 yesterday and as soon as powered up I got the same issues.  The unit was switching itself off or resetting automatically every few seconds.  After a few goes at switching the unit off and on, it finally stopped resetting and seems ok now.  I'm doing nothing special, just guitar in, ouitput to amp and 2 expression pedals (EX-1's) connected.  Will let you know if it happens again.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-05-24 01:05:50

ggb8 wrote:

Just got my M13 yesterday and as soon as powered up I got the same issues.  The unit was switching itself off or resetting automatically every few seconds.  After a few goes at switching the unit off and on, it finally stopped resetting and seems ok now.  I'm doing nothing special, just guitar in, ouitput to amp and 2 expression pedals (EX-1's) connected.  Will let you know if it happens again.

Yes, please do.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by jdbelcher98 on 2009-06-09 07:20:43

Rich, I just posted a new thread about this issue, but thought I would add mine to the list of those witnessing this strange hit-and-run phenomenon: http://line6.com/community/thread/9940?tstart=0

Justas with the first poster to this thread, my problem occurred when I went into the tuner. That's one thing that might be consistent with this problem. After that, however, it continued to reset itself while I was on FX's active...so, perhaps not!

The thing is, I think this is the second time this has happened to me. The first time it happened was when I still had firmware version 1.02...I thought that the firmware upgrades had addressed the problem...and it seems as though someone mentioned to me that they thought the firmware upgrade might likely work that problem out. I can't seem to find that thread though. It was on the older forum, I guess.

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer on this...I really don't want this to pop up again in the middle of a set!

peace,

dave b



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-06-10 03:31:10

jdbelcher98 wrote:

Rich, I just posted a new thread about this issue, but thought I would add mine to the list of those witnessing this strange hit-and-run phenomenon: http://line6.com/community/thread/9940?tstart=0

Justas with the first poster to this thread, my problem occurred when I went into the tuner. That's one thing that might be consistent with this problem. After that, however, it continued to reset itself while I was on FX's active...so, perhaps not!

The thing is, I think this is the second time this has happened to me. The first time it happened was when I still had firmware version 1.02...I thought that the firmware upgrades had addressed the problem...and it seems as though someone mentioned to me that they thought the firmware upgrade might likely work that problem out. I can't seem to find that thread though. It was on the older forum, I guess.

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer on this...I really don't want this to pop up again in the middle of a set!

peace,

dave b

Sorry for this. As I posted in the other thread. Can you keep using it and if it does it again, PM me. I hope to get one back here that I can reproduce the problem on and get to the root cause. Very few have had this problem. I had two do it once and never again and they were just plugged in by my desk. So frakin weird.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by pepperbeluga on 2009-08-13 11:19:35

Hello again! I believe I started this thread a bit over a year ago. I was playing with my M13 today and, after all this time, it switched on and off again, twice... and then everything was ok (I didn't do anything to fix the problem, it just stopped on its own). The same as the first time, I was playing bass through the unit. As mentioned before in this thread, I wonder if it has something to do with low frequencies (of course, some people are having the problem with a guitar plugged in). Have you found any possible causes/solutions to the problem? Can it be fixed thorugh updating the firmware? Thanks in advance and keep up the good work. I still think the M13 is a fantastic piece of gear and it makes both my guitar and bass sound amazing.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by UberXTC on 2009-08-13 11:57:32

Rich,

Have you gotten my unit back yet? I believe it was supposed to be delivered today. I hope that this unit acts up for you as much as it did me, which I think is more frequent than anyone else has posted. Weird thing is that it never had the problem for the first 7 months of owning it then all of a sudden it started and would go away for a few days then come back.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-08-14 17:54:38

pepperbeluga wrote:

Hello again! I believe I started this thread a bit over a year ago. I was playing with my M13 today and, after all this time, it switched on and off again, twice... and then everything was ok (I didn't do anything to fix the problem, it just stopped on its own). The same as the first time, I was playing bass through the unit. As mentioned before in this thread, I wonder if it has something to do with low frequencies (of course, some people are having the problem with a guitar plugged in). Have you found any possible causes/solutions to the problem? Can it be fixed thorugh updating the firmware? Thanks in advance and keep up the good work. I still think the M13 is a fantastic piece of gear and it makes both my guitar and bass sound amazing.

Oh man. aaauuuuuggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It isn't the low frequencies. Remember that I posted about the fact that I had one do it to me 6 months ago at 3 am when I was working here late by myself. Nothing was even plugged into the unit. So that rules out a lot. It is random.

As I have said, there are very few out there compared to the thousands shipped that I have heard about this happening. Less than 10.

If anyone other than the guys who have posted here have had this exact power down/power up on its own problem, please post here.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-08-14 17:57:41

UberXTC wrote:

Rich,

Have you gotten my unit back yet? I believe it was supposed to be delivered today. I hope that this unit acts up for you as much as it did me, which I think is more frequent than anyone else has posted. Weird thing is that it never had the problem for the first 7 months of owning it then all of a sudden it started and would go away for a few days then come back.

I did get your unit, thank you so much for helping us out like you have. Also thank you to my service guys who jumped it to really made working this out a smooth endeavor. They kick butt.

I got the unit and it has been plugged in for 3 days and of course, no problem at all. It is so frustrating. But like you said, it happened to you more often than anyone else so I am hoping that maybe we will find something different.

Stay posted here. We will figure this out. Thanks everyone for hanging in there.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by aaalp on 2009-08-16 10:01:38

Hi all,

Thank God, I found this thread. I had my M13 brand new about 7 weeks ago. Everything was fine during first month. Then same case mentioned by previous posters started to happen and now it is so frequent that it does that almost every day, every time I try to use it. There's been days that it didn't happen, but it happens anyway at least every couple days, if not every day. I witnessed this while looping, while playing with some effects on, while changing effects, while tweaking effect parameters and also playing while every effect bypassed, etc.. at almost any scenario.

I'll try to explain how it happens; first reaction is the blinking of displays and sometimes both displays and leds on switches. Then unit gets kinda stuck; changing parameters with knobs and expression pedal doesn't work, also changing effects in a column or turning on and off doesn't happen. Then after three or four seconds (there is no weirdness in sound during these seconds) unit turns itself off than on. If I can't see this is coming while playing guitar looking somewhere else, a huge impact on sound happens between off and on, which i belive because of fx send/return beeing bypassing and pure guitar signal gets fed directly into my amps power amp.

For the record, my M13's firmware is v1.04, I did not even plugged midi cables yet, just opened the box and connectted unit to my guitar and amp. Also i didn't performed factory reset since I had the unit. I use Boss FV-500H expression pedal connected to Pedal 1 input. DSP bypass selected. Effect row selected as 4>3>fx send/return>2>1 and I am using just one scene.

I also discovered that everytime I turn on the unit, displays behave differently. Lets say every effect bypassed before turning of. When turning on, sometimes nothing with the flick of the switch then word "bypass" appears on displays (I belive this is the normal one), sometimes a sudden light on all displays with the flick then "bypass" word appears, sometimes unusual red light appears for a second on one or two displays than "bypass" word appears, and sometimes every pixel on four displays gets dark (without light) for a second than "bypass" word appears.

I hope what causes this problem will be figured out soon. Thanks for reading.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-08-16 15:00:13

aaalp wrote:

Hi all,

Thank God, I found this thread. I had my M13 brand new about 7 weeks ago. Everything was fine during first month. Then same case mentioned by previous posters started to happen and now it is so frequent that it does that almost every day, every time I try to use it. There's been days that it didn't happen, but it happens anyway at least every couple days, if not every day. I witnessed this while looping, while playing with some effects on, while changing effects, while tweaking effect parameters and also playing while every effect bypassed, etc.. at almost any scenario.

I'll try to explain how it happens; first reaction is the blinking of displays and sometimes both displays and leds on switches. Then unit gets kinda stuck; changing parameters with knobs and expression pedal doesn't work, also changing effects in a column or turning on and off doesn't happen. Then after three or four seconds (there is no weirdness in sound during these seconds) unit turns itself off than on. If I can't see this is coming while playing guitar looking somewhere else, a huge impact on sound happens between off and on, which i belive because of fx send/return beeing bypassing and pure guitar signal gets fed directly into my amps power amp.

For the record, my M13's firmware is v1.04, I did not even plugged midi cables yet, just opened the box and connectted unit to my guitar and amp. Also i didn't performed factory reset since I had the unit. I use Boss FV-500H expression pedal connected to Pedal 1 input. DSP bypass selected. Effect row selected as 4>3>fx send/return>2>1 and I am using just one scene.

I also discovered that everytime I turn on the unit, displays behave differently. Lets say every effect bypassed before turning of. When turning on, sometimes nothing with the flick of the switch then word "bypass" appears on displays (I belive this is the normal one), sometimes a sudden light on all displays with the flick then "bypass" word appears, sometimes unusual red light appears for a second on one or two displays than "bypass" word appears, and sometimes every pixel on four displays gets dark (without light) for a second than "bypass" word appears.

I hope what causes this problem will be figured out soon. Thanks for reading.

Thank you for posting. You could always call service and get a new unit.

You did give me a thought. The unit that was doing it all the time came back and my service guys did a factory reset. Again there doesn't seen to be rhyme or reason but maybe the direction of the FX and/or where the FX loop may be part of it.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by kruzty on 2009-08-17 06:04:40

That seems a little strange to do a factory reset if you were trying to diagnose the problem.  Wouldn't you want it in the exact state in which the user was experiencing the problem?  If it were me, I would want the exact settings of the user and even cables plugged in to the same location as it was normally used when the problem occurred (as mentioned - maybe it has to do with the loop, expression pedal, etc.).  Do you have the user's settings to reload?



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-08-17 09:45:19

kruzty wrote:

That seems a little strange to do a factory reset if you were trying to diagnose the problem.  Wouldn't you want it in the exact state in which the user was experiencing the problem?  If it were me, I would want the exact settings of the user and even cables plugged in to the same location as it was normally used when the problem occurred (as mentioned - maybe it has to do with the loop, expression pedal, etc.).  Do you have the user's settings to reload?

Not at all strange. They did their routine checks in customer service. Remember, I am not in customer service. They did their job to check everything they could and sent it to myself and the electrical lead.

Yes, luckily I got the user's settings emailed to me and waiting to get all his preferences.

As I have said, this is the most random thing I have ever seen in my career. It happened to me at 3am in my office with nothing connected to it and no one around and I hadn't touched the unit for at least 12 hours. I didn't turn on other gear, I was working on a document at my computer for at least 5 hours and BAM it happened. At first I thought ghosts.

I am thankful that it has only been a few units. A few out of thousands and thousands is not a major concern, but I want to take this problem down.

Again, anyone else at all experiencing this, please post right in here.

And again thank you guys.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by frankhauben on 2009-08-17 11:16:19

Just wondering...

If it happens... is there some other load on the same electrical group connected? I've seen digital effects do crazy things if it's connected to the same group which has something on it that generates a lot of interference (stagelights, (bad) switch mode powersupplies etc).



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-08-17 11:35:37

frankhauben wrote:

Just wondering...

If it happens... is there some other load on the same electrical group connected? I've seen digital effects do crazy things if it's connected to the same group which has something on it that generates a lot of interference (stagelights, (bad) switch mode powersupplies etc).

Thank you so much for jumping in with a suggestion, I need any and all I can get. We did try dirty power, low power, every kind of power to reproduce this particular problem. It is so weird.

Like I said, it happened in my office in the middle of the night, nothing going on in the whole building.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by jdbelcher98 on 2009-08-17 11:58:44

Frank,

Right, and though that was one of the first possible suggestions folks here gave for locating the problem when I first reported my own experience of this problem (because it took place on a big stage at a gig with lots of other factors to take into consideration, especially power and lighting), nevertheless, it did the same thing to me later that week in a well-grounded isolated circuit. So, that would seem to rule out the power load theory -- though, yeah, it does sound like that doesn't it?!

By the way, my unit has behaved quite well since the last incident with no more shut-downs, which is just as well because I still have yet to receive my call tag. I guess I need to give you guys a call.

In the meantime, keep us posted on this bizarre phenomenon, Rich!!

peace,

dave b



Re: M13 Power Problem
by frankhauben on 2009-08-17 14:46:10

Line6Renken wrote:

frankhauben wrote:

Just wondering...

If it happens... is there some other load on the same electrical group connected? I've seen digital effects do crazy things if it's connected to the same group which has something on it that generates a lot of interference (stagelights, (bad) switch mode powersupplies etc).

Thank you so much for jumping in with a suggestion, I need any and all I can get. We did try dirty power, low power, every kind of power to reproduce this particular problem. It is so weird.

Like I said, it happened in my office in the middle of the night, nothing going on in the whole building.

Well like my old teacher said: "If it's not in the hardware, it must be in the software".

Is there anything that makes the processor reset, i.e. counteroverloads, timers etc. It would explain the clicking and flashing of the LED's as all output's would go down on a reset.

Good luck!, and keep us informed!

Frank



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-08-17 22:39:22

frankhauben wrote:

Line6Renken wrote:

frankhauben wrote:

Just wondering...

If it happens... is there some other load on the same electrical group connected? I've seen digital effects do crazy things if it's connected to the same group which has something on it that generates a lot of interference (stagelights, (bad) switch mode powersupplies etc).

Thank you so much for jumping in with a suggestion, I need any and all I can get. We did try dirty power, low power, every kind of power to reproduce this particular problem. It is so weird.

Like I said, it happened in my office in the middle of the night, nothing going on in the whole building.

Well like my old teacher said: "If it's not in the hardware, it must be in the software".

Is there anything that makes the processor reset, i.e. counteroverloads, timers etc. It would explain the clicking and flashing of the LED's as all output's would go down on a reset.

Good luck!, and keep us informed!

Frank

That is exactly what I was thinking today. Thank you.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by aaalp on 2009-08-20 10:35:15

Line6Renken wrote:

aaalp wrote:

Hi all,

Thank God, I found this thread. I had my M13 brand new about 7 weeks ago. Everything was fine during first month. Then same case mentioned by previous posters started to happen and now it is so frequent that it does that almost every day, every time I try to use it. There's been days that it didn't happen, but it happens anyway at least every couple days, if not every day. I witnessed this while looping, while playing with some effects on, while changing effects, while tweaking effect parameters and also playing while every effect bypassed, etc.. at almost any scenario.

I'll try to explain how it happens; first reaction is the blinking of displays and sometimes both displays and leds on switches. Then unit gets kinda stuck; changing parameters with knobs and expression pedal doesn't work, also changing effects in a column or turning on and off doesn't happen. Then after three or four seconds (there is no weirdness in sound during these seconds) unit turns itself off than on. If I can't see this is coming while playing guitar looking somewhere else, a huge impact on sound happens between off and on, which i belive because of fx send/return beeing bypassing and pure guitar signal gets fed directly into my amps power amp.

For the record, my M13's firmware is v1.04, I did not even plugged midi cables yet, just opened the box and connectted unit to my guitar and amp. Also i didn't performed factory reset since I had the unit. I use Boss FV-500H expression pedal connected to Pedal 1 input. DSP bypass selected. Effect row selected as 4>3>fx send/return>2>1 and I am using just one scene.

I also discovered that everytime I turn on the unit, displays behave differently. Lets say every effect bypassed before turning of. When turning on, sometimes nothing with the flick of the switch then word "bypass" appears on displays (I belive this is the normal one), sometimes a sudden light on all displays with the flick then "bypass" word appears, sometimes unusual red light appears for a second on one or two displays than "bypass" word appears, and sometimes every pixel on four displays gets dark (without light) for a second than "bypass" word appears.

I hope what causes this problem will be figured out soon. Thanks for reading.

Thank you for posting. You could always call service and get a new unit.

You did give me a thought. The unit that was doing it all the time came back and my service guys did a factory reset. Again there doesn't seen to be rhyme or reason but maybe the direction of the FX and/or where the FX loop may be part of it.

Mr.Renken, I would like to thank you for your support and effort on this problem. I'll also add that when this weird thing happens, sometimes it's following one after another. When it starts it does that 2 or 3 times in an hour, and a couple of times it happened 3 or 4 times in a minute maybe. Also, it is funny it didn't happen again since i posted about this problem.

By the way, does anyone else experienced different behavior of displays while turning on the unit that I mentioned in my previous post? I wonder, if it is a normal thing and common on all units, or it is common on the units does this random on/off thing, or it's just uniqe to my M13 ???



Re: M13 Power Problem
by jdbelcher98 on 2009-08-20 10:43:31

aaalp,

I can say that in my case the display thing is regular...and I have had the strange power problem multiple times. It would probably be good to hear from folks who have not had this problem to see if that is also an issue for them. Usually I see at least one of the delays pop up red just before the unit fully kicks on...but it's also not always the same, and sometimes different colors...weird.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by Jeff-Lang on 2009-09-04 17:14:15

Hi all,

Well I second the call of "thanks God I found this thread topic"... I was starting to think something must have happened to my M13 while I was sleeping.. gremlins creeping into it's innards in the night or some-such...

I too have been experiencing the exact same power problem as described here - namely the unit switching itself off and on at random. This didn't happen for the first 5 months or so, then it has been happening more and more.

At first it would only do it when I had just turned it on, but it has been occuring far more regularly as time goes on, last night I had it switch off and on something like once every few seconds for minutes at a time. It seemed to be occuring whenever I tried using the looper (I was trying to use this function to do a recording), but then I just left it sitting there with nothing running htrough it at all, just turned on, idling. It continued to turn off and on, though the rate of occurance had slowed down by this stage.

It's most frustrating as I use the M13 for live work touing all over the world and it is a fantastic effect unit - I love it;s ease of use layout and the sounds are killer. However this power problem has been affecting shows - you loose the loop you made when it happens of course, so mid song shutdowns - whilst they are only temporary and the unit seems to return to your last scene in a few seconds - mean that a loop that is integral in the song being performed is gone. Most annoying.

Has anyone found a way to remedy this situation, as I'm starting to eye my former multi-stompbox-with-myriad-patch-cable setup with a ruefull eye towards reinstating it to touring duty.

Something I don't really want to do as the M13 has been a great solution to my previous setup's weight and clunkiness.

Cheers, Jeff.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by jdbelcher98 on 2009-09-04 17:38:24

Jeff,

It is extremely important that you remember three things:

1. Don't get them wet;

2. They are afraid of bright light;

3. Don't ever, ever, ever feed them after midnight....

...the Gremlins, that is.

Seriously, to my knowledge, this problem is still far too random and disparate...and Rich, though he has had a few problem-child models on his bench, has not been able to reproduce the problem (even despite the fact that he himself, the product manager, has witnessed this alien phenomenon strike like a passing ghost). No idea. It's so freakin' weird.

I am quite sure if and when the problem is solved, you'll want to keep your eye on this thread. I totally understand your situation, though, as the first time this happend to me was right before a gig...for a touring musician, a problem like this can be downright disastrous.

Because this phenomenon is somewhat random, though, it may be that (if your unit is under warranty) you can exchange it for a new model, and see if the new one persists with the problem.

Good luck and keep us posted if you figure anything out!

dave b



Re: M13 Power Problem
by gouldpw on 2009-09-05 17:54:03

I have sitting here reading all these posts and I have some input...I don't own the M-13, but was thinking of buying one as I use the X3L right now. Not too sure I want to at this point.

In the old, old days I used many indiviual pedals (each with their own power supply, mind you) and one thing I noticed was, if I used one not of the same brand as the rest of the pedals, depending on the model, it would shut off the pedals that followed it...usually in the pre-FX.  Never had trouble with post-FX pedals with different models. 

Maybe something like that is happening within the software, but instead of turning off the pedal, it just resets the M-13.  Just a thought.

Patrick



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-09-06 16:01:54

Jeff-Lang wrote:

Hi all,

Well I second the call of "thanks God I found this thread topic"... I was starting to think something must have happened to my M13 while I was sleeping.. gremlins creeping into it's innards in the night or some-such...

I too have been experiencing the exact same power problem as described here - namely the unit switching itself off and on at random. This didn't happen for the first 5 months or so, then it has been happening more and more.

At first it would only do it when I had just turned it on, but it has been occuring far more regularly as time goes on, last night I had it switch off and on something like once every few seconds for minutes at a time. It seemed to be occuring whenever I tried using the looper (I was trying to use this function to do a recording), but then I just left it sitting there with nothing running htrough it at all, just turned on, idling. It continued to turn off and on, though the rate of occurance had slowed down by this stage.

It's most frustrating as I use the M13 for live work touing all over the world and it is a fantastic effect unit - I love it;s ease of use layout and the sounds are killer. However this power problem has been affecting shows - you loose the loop you made when it happens of course, so mid song shutdowns - whilst they are only temporary and the unit seems to return to your last scene in a few seconds - mean that a loop that is integral in the song being performed is gone. Most annoying.

Has anyone found a way to remedy this situation, as I'm starting to eye my former multi-stompbox-with-myriad-patch-cable setup with a ruefull eye towards reinstating it to touring duty.

Something I don't really want to do as the M13 has been a great solution to my previous setup's weight and clunkiness.

Cheers, Jeff.

Call customer service and get them to replace the unit. Tell them you have the power up/power down problem that Rich Renken is investigating and you don't want the unit to go back to the dealer where it may just get sold to another customer.  We haven't figured out the root cause, and by reading this thread you can see how frustrating it is. Even as you describe when it happens to you, it is so random. I recently received 2 units that seen to have done it more often and am calling a meeting of all the brainiacs to see if something will dawn on someone. One good thing is it has only happened to a dozen units out of thousands.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-09-06 16:06:31

gouldpw wrote:

I have sitting here reading all these posts and I have some input...I don't own the M-13, but was thinking of buying one as I use the X3L right now. Not too sure I want to at this point.

In the old, old days I used many indiviual pedals (each with their own power supply, mind you) and one thing I noticed was, if I used one not of the same brand as the rest of the pedals, depending on the model, it would shut off the pedals that followed it...usually in the pre-FX.  Never had trouble with post-FX pedals with different models. 

Maybe something like that is happening within the software, but instead of turning off the pedal, it just resets the M-13.  Just a thought.

Patrick

Thank you for throwing out an idea. I would say that this is not the case here, I had it happen to a unit in my office at 3 am with nothing plugged into it after it was on and untouched for 6 hours. Like out of nowhere.

I wouldn't be afraid to grab one, the units it has happened to is very very low. Far less than 1 percent.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by Jeff-Lang on 2009-09-06 17:37:51

Hi Rich,

Thanks for the reply.

I need to know how to go about this given that I live in Australia.

Do any dealers here give the same return/exchange service to your knowledge?

Or do I have to ship it all the way out to the States?

That obviously would be less than ideal, as I would have a big hole without the board at all with shows upcoming.

I'd also need to work out the whole "saving scenes" thing, hmmmm... Time to bone up on computer skills (I tend to glaze over a little when I try and read that type of stuff), 'cause there's many song-specific scenes stored in there from the last few months of gigging...



Re: M13 Power Problem
by gouldpw on 2009-09-07 15:19:48

Thanks for your reply to my post.  I do really like Line 6 products, but I am going to buy a different MFX board.  Even though the problem affects < 1% of the M-13's, I can't afford to take a chance of a shutdown in the middle of a performance...its all about quality for the paying customer.  I will continue to buy Line 6 and I look forward to you guys fixing the problem with the M-13.  I will continue to monitor this string so I will know when the problem has been fixed.  Once again, thanks for your quick responses on all these posts.

Patrick



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-09-08 01:23:03

gouldpw wrote:

Thanks for your reply to my post.  I do really like Line 6 products, but I am going to buy a different MFX board.  Even though the problem affects < 1% of the M-13's, I can't afford to take a chance of a shutdown in the middle of a performance...its all about quality for the paying customer.  I will continue to buy Line 6 and I look forward to you guys fixing the problem with the M-13.  I will continue to monitor this string so I will know when the problem has been fixed.  Once again, thanks for your quick responses on all these posts.

Patrick

I understand. Do you play the lottery? Or drive a car?

Sorry, let me give you the closer percentage.  < .01%


You have a better chance to win the lottery or get in a wreck than have a problem on stage during a show with this particular problem.

Also, M13 has a much lower return rate for every reason (not just this one) than almost every other piece of gear we sell. Just saying your logic for waiting seems a bit extreme, but I do understand, that is why I am in here trying to beat it down. Hang tough.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-09-08 01:25:23

Jeff-Lang wrote:

Hi Rich,

Thanks for the reply.

I need to know how to go about this given that I live in Australia.

Do any dealers here give the same return/exchange service to your knowledge?

Or do I have to ship it all the way out to the States?

That obviously would be less than ideal, as I would have a big hole without the board at all with shows upcoming.

I'd also need to work out the whole "saving scenes" thing, hmmmm... Time to bone up on computer skills (I tend to glaze over a little when I try and read that type of stuff), 'cause there's many song-specific scenes stored in there from the last few months of gigging...

Let me find out.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by albertojgg on 2009-09-16 18:07:45

Excelent customer service Rich, good luck on solving th problem, really love line 6 stuff!



Re: M13 Power Problem
by cdoerman on 2009-09-23 19:13:49

I bought a brand new unit with FW 1.04 on it, upgraded to 1.07 immediately. It was ok the first night but I had the same power problems the second night so I took it back on day 3 (today) to Guitar Center Cincinnati. They are supposed to send it back to Line 6.

Rich - if you want to intercept it and have a look, feel free.

I got another unit as a replacement. It only have FW 1.02 on it (it was clearly semi-used, but the last one they had). I just upgraded to 1.07 and will be testing it here soon. I'll let you know if I see any problems with this one.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by Notooth on 2009-09-27 21:10:27

Count me in on the list of M13 power problems.  I was playing a gig last weekend in the last set of the night and my guitar starts cutting in and out.  I think it's one of the cables so as I start wiggling my guitar cable and I notice the M13 is flashing.  Everytime the lights go out the sound goes out.  I was running the M13 in my effects loop so I just clicked off the effects loop and played through the rest of the set dry.  Anyway, this has happened once before and It seems that the common factor is the M13 has been left on for more than 3 or 4 hours.  I don't know if the unit gets too hot or maybe the adapter is too hot but if I turn it off and let it cool and back on again it's fine.  It's rare but I don't feel good about the problem hitting me in the middle of a gig.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-10-03 01:31:27

I, Rich, am posting this to keep track. This is from the Gear Page, Line 6 M13 Vol 3 page Post 162.

It started working again.

Originally Posted by griff3 View Post
Bummer...

Just upgraded to 2.00 from 1.07. Played around with the drives for a while then started checking out the mod effects. Stepped on the analog chorus... played for about 15 seconds, then the screen blinked, the effects went off, the unit powered down and back a few times, and now seems to be down for the count.

I upgraded from 1.04(?) to 1.07 without a hitch, and didn't seem to have any problems with this one. Fortunately I'm within the year since I bought so I guess it's a warranty deal. Now I remember why I used pedals... I'm going to have to build a pedalboard to get through the next few gigs without the M13.


Re: M13 Power Problem
by ddover99 on 2009-10-03 13:39:55

I experienced a power cycling spell with my M13 about 6 weeks ago.   Here are the details for when it happened to me.

Firmware = 1.07

M13 was powered on for several hours during practice sessions and a live set

Power cycling happened about 3 times; every 2-3 minutes during about the 6th hour of running

We were NOT playing drums and/or bass or anything else loud when the power cycling started

M13 was in Latch Mode - and in the scene select screen 100% during the above situation

I noticed the M13 would boot back up to the FX On/Off mode, not the scene select screen - that is how I noticed the cycling

Maybe there is some clue here to help with the investigation.   I considered calling it in for service, but there are no guarantees this wouldn't happen with a replacement unit so I will go along for the ride unless it begins happening often.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-10-03 23:47:43

Thank you for your detailed info, I appreciate it.

Let me know if it happens again.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by markcockerill on 2009-10-04 15:50:22

Apologies but I have just seen this thread.

I bought the M13 since the day it was released here in the UK and I too have had the problem. It happened with the original firmware several months ago and after switching off the unit for a few seconds and then back on was ok and never troubled me again for months. I thought it was just a minor glitch and never gave it a second thought. I take the unit everywhere from gigging, band practice and jamming sessions and it has occurred again on a few of these occasions but once restarted never let me down for the rest of the evening. None of these venues suffers vibration issues to my memory and certainly not at home.

I have performed both updates. I don't recall the problem happening during the 1.07 update but in all fairness, I only did that upgrade about a week before version 2. A few days ago it again powered its self off and flashing of display again and during the many hours of happy reprogramming it with the new upgrades for my gigging needs it has been stellar. Again, I thought that the glitch was not worth worrying too much about as it is a relatively rare occurrence and easily remedied, but now I have seen this thread I am obviously a little more concerned.

I use the X3 Live for all my live performances straight into the M13 in stereo so I have clearly marked each power adapter so as to avoid confusion there. Just as a footnote (I use this configuration for playing because I use the two amps at once of the X3L with absolutely nothing else added in the X3 and output into the M13 for all the effects, usually just delay and reverb, the sound is way better than the X3 alone [imho] especially as I know for sure that the routing is exactly where it should be for my needs). Wah - Amps - Volume pedal - Delay - Reverb. I know it is a lot of real estate to take to a gig but the sound from the PA is nothing short of: as good as it gets for me and those that have passed comment agree.

So back to the issue, random power failure is going to take some time to resolve and I am not convinced it has anything to do with the power supply going in, more likely a capacitor or something of that nature or even some slightly errant code. Good luck with resolving it and I am sure that when you have we can get the same level of support that we did in returning our X3s for the Oscillator and button fix even though the normal 12 month warranty had expired.

Version 2 upgrade, absolutely excellent and a deal of gratitude I extend for it too.

Can I have a similar upgrade for my Vetta, X3L and X3 Pro please?

Regards

Mark



Re: M13 Power Problem
by viejasbotas on 2009-10-19 15:10:42

I too have just experienced this. I got my unit today, purchased used (though it was bought new earlier this year). I'd been playing it (and loving it) for a couple of hours, went to tweak the drive on a distortion on FX unit 2 and the problem happened - flicked on and off a few times. I switched it off and on again a couple of times and it did it again, then switched it on and off once more and it's been fine ever since.

So - what to do??  I have the option of:

1. returning it to the seller (given how hard this fault seems to be to reproduce, I may have a battle on my hands!),

2. contacting Line 6 support to ask for a repair (but what would they repair?)

3. awaiting a fix through a software update...

Rich what do you think - are you confident you guys can fix this?

It's still on version 1.04 BTW.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-10-20 04:43:05

viejasbotas wrote:

I too have just experienced this. I got my unit today, purchased used (though it was bought new earlier this year). I'd been playing it (and loving it) for a couple of hours, went to tweak the drive on a distortion on FX unit 2 and the problem happened - flicked on and off a few times. I switched it off and on again a couple of times and it did it again, then switched it on and off once more and it's been fine ever since.

So - what to do??  I have the option of:

1. returning it to the seller (given how hard this fault seems to be to reproduce, I may have a battle on my hands!),

2. contacting Line 6 support to ask for a repair (but what would they repair?)

3. awaiting a fix through a software update...

Rich what do you think - are you confident you guys can fix this?

It's still on version 1.04 BTW.

Hang tough. I am forwarding this to service to see where we are at with it.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by bennylandgrebe on 2009-10-20 11:19:09

HELLO,

cdoerman adviced me to join this thread as i have similar problems. my original posting:

hello, a week ago i updated my m13 from 1.07 to the latest version.

since an hour, everytime i use my line 6 expression pedal (for example as an volume pedal or with the pitchshifter) all the effect lights start to flicker, the effect displays change their colours and then it turns off and on again. if i don't step on the pedal or run the m13 without it, everything seems normal. and my expression pedal still works great with my dl4, without any flickering or interrupts.

the shop where it bought it at six months ago wants me to ship it to you guys, but maybe my you can help  so i don't need to.

regards,

benny



Re: M13 Power Problem
by nihilbaxter on 2009-10-22 07:25:19

Hello guys,

i just discovered this discussion after downloading the v2.01-Update for my M13 and checking out the support-area. As the line6-dude was asking for further reports concerning the problem i wanted to add this one:

I bought my M13 about 2 months ago in Hamburg, Germany. The "Switching-on/off-Problem" occured at the first time i used the m13, after maybe 15-30 minutes of playing. I remember that i were using the tuner when the m13 switched off and on the first time. After trying different things (replacing the powercable, turning the m13 on and off) the problem was still current, so i switched the m13 off and planned to give it back to the dealer. On the next day i couldn't withstand the m13 and played with it again. Since then the unit works without any further complications, i even toured with it and it survived I hope it remains that way, because i really fell in love with that thing...

Addition: i updated to v.1.07 a few days after having the problem



Re: M13 Power Problem
by clydey on 2009-10-22 10:29:05

just bought the m13 and immediately updated the software.

i was renaming a scene when it went into power down mode ,relay click and then back on at the same letter i was changing. this  happenned twice in 1 hour but the problem has not reoccurred.

the unit had been on for quite some hours and i suspected the power supply but decided to wait and see, will watch the thread to see how it unfolds cheers by the way great unit



Re: M13 Power Problem
by viejasbotas on 2009-10-22 11:45:32

Well the person I purchased the unit from has kindly agreed to take it back and refund me (what a top guy!) and so he will be contacting Line 6 tech support directly.

So... now I need to get another one...



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-10-22 15:02:53

Thank you so much guys for sharing your stories.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by viejasbotas on 2009-10-22 15:51:43

Any news on the cause? I'm looking into getting another and wondering if I might encounter it again...

P.s. Rich - I know you hear this a lot - but you guys are awesome, participating in forum discussions here and elsewhere. I've never seen a business do customer service like that - in ANY field. It gives me a lot of faith in you. You rock.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-10-22 22:45:43

viejasbotas wrote:

Any news on the cause? I'm looking into getting another and wondering if I might encounter it again...

P.s. Rich - I know you hear this a lot - but you guys are awesome, participating in forum discussions here and elsewhere. I've never seen a business do customer service like that - in ANY field. It gives me a lot of faith in you. You rock.

No news yet. But if I were you I would go buy another one. It has only shown up on a very few out of thousands. The reason that it is even highlighted is because it is so weird and I want a place for people to post and tell us about it in case it only happened to them once and never again. When I first posted in this thread there was maybe 6 or so that showed this problem and now it is over 10 but still very few. I have a couple friends that it happened to last year and never again.

All that to say, you are very safe to jump in and get one, your chances of having two do the same thing to you is, as my grama used to say, slim to none.

Thank you as well for your kind words, we all appreciate it.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by Roryoriordan on 2009-10-25 01:44:16

Ok mine has started to do this on and of thing now after 5 -6 mins use . I upgraded to firmware 2 a while ago . I don't remember it doing it prioor to that .What scares me is that if this isn't a software problem and I have a doggy unit then If i wait around for line 6 to sort it out my warrenty might run ont ane leave me with a on off m13 forever.

I'm going to ring the place I got it from and see if they will change it tomrrow.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-10-25 02:29:55

Roryoriordan wrote:

Ok mine has started to do this on and of thing now after 5 -6 mins use . I upgraded to firmware 2 a while ago . I don't remember it doing it prioor to that .What scares me is that if this isn't a software problem and I have a doggy unit then If i wait around for line 6 to sort it out my warrenty might run ont ane leave me with a on off m13 forever.

I'm going to ring the place I got it from and see if they will change it tomrrow.

It is most likely not hardware. We ran a battery of tests. Also, it will do and and for some, it never does it again. Also, we are running a bunch of tests on the software side and I am hopeful that we will find it. But if they change it out, ask them to send it back to Line 6 with the "power up/power down" problem to line6miller's attention.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by Roryoriordan on 2009-10-25 04:48:56

yeah I updated to the v2.01 firmware and since then it seems to be going ok . It's been running for an hour or so with no problems . I also hooked it up to a power surge protector in case that had something to do with it .I'll give it a few days as I think you might be right it may not be a hardware thing. I do remember when I updated to v2 I did so on a mac the v2.01 I installed on a pc .Just to throw another variable int the mix :-(



Re: M13 Power Problem
by Roryoriordan on 2009-10-25 04:57:07

BTW thanks for such a quick reply, that's pretty impressive, nice one.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-10-26 02:27:13

Thank you.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by Blueheart on 2009-11-02 18:41:26

Hello All. I thought I'd jump in here. I've had my M13 for a couple months. Have been playing with it as time allows. Line6Renken, I've been reading this thread for the last day or so, and my own story is that, in the time I've owned it, the M13 was quite stable UNTIL I loaded the 2.01 firmware. This occurred Saturday, the 31st. I had just uploaded 2.0 about a week before with no issues and 1.07 before that (although, I too hooked up my midi cables backwards for the 2.0 session - very frustrating til I fingered it out). (I'm using midi-ox, btw) Anyway, after the 2.01 update, I was tinkering with it just to get a scene setup since I was planning to gig it for the first time that night. Well, as I was using it and trying different effects it started acting up and powered off, wouldn't turn on, then did, then I'd see a distortion effect in slot one that I'd ditched a minute before for another one. Same thing with a chorus effect in slot 2. This went on for a few minutes with me turning it on and off, unplugging the power cord, etc. Finally, I turned it off, unplugged it at both ends, removed all the input, output and effect pedal cables, then reversed the process and when I turned it on, voila! It seemed fine. I was pressed for time by now, since you know, I had a gig that night and I was trying to hold off trick or treaters and pack everything up so I could get outa Dodge. I finished setting up my scene and split...

The result was good - I used it at the gig all night and it didn't act up again. In fact, it performed great. I really like this unit. But in reading about this problem,  I'm a little uneasy about gigging it now, since, if this were to happen again while at a show it'd suck. I was encouraged by some earlier discussion which suggested that this issue seemed to be a one-time problem. Is that still your feeling? Is there any word back about finding a possible answer? In the event it does happen again, what is the procedure for warranty replacement?

In that unhappy event, I will be sure to post back with more details about what happened. I plan on continuing to use the M13 since it sounds good, is very flexible and compact, plus, I don't think you can find a more comprehensive collection of stomp boxes in one box anywhere. Besides, its appeal is considerable compared to my traditional pedal board which has its own ghosts...



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-11-03 01:28:38

First of all, thank you so much for taking the time to post here. Time is precious and I appreciate it.

Only a couple guys of the few guys who have seen this have had it happen more than once and the times it happened seemed to be months apart.

I saw it happen on my unit in the middle of the night in my office with the M13 plugged in with no cords hooked up to it at all. It never happened again. So weird. Seems like a few guys had it happen after the new update on both 2.0 or 2.01.

My personal guess, no guarantee, is that you won't see it again. If you do, I want to know about it.

Also, some of the brainiacs that work with the software/firmware have some theories that they are testing as I type. The minute I have a reason for the problem, I will post here and let you guys know what we find out.

Thanks again and if any of you guys have had this problem and are looking at this thread without posting, please please post it here. Just a simple, "yes, I have seen my unit power down and up on its own" will work perfect.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by Blueheart on 2009-11-03 06:33:35

Thanks, Renken. I know you are concerned and working on the problem. I'll let you know if anything new develops with my M13 and will keep watching this thread for news from your end.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-11-17 01:21:38

I am posting these to keep track of everyone who is experiencing this oddity.

http://line6.com/community/thread/22076?tstart=0

http://line6.com/community/thread/22756?tstart=0

Threeguys in that thread have or have had the problem



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-11-24 14:49:33

And another

http://line6.com/community/thread/23254?tstart=0



Re: M13 Power Problem
by austinandwhatnot on 2009-11-24 15:57:47

Weird...



Re: M13 Power Problem
by mgh1196 on 2009-11-24 23:03:02

Problem possibly in faulty AC adapters and not the M13 itself???? Just sayin......



Re: M13 Power Problem
by cdoerman on 2009-11-25 07:17:32

mgh1196 wrote:

Problem possibly in faulty AC adapters and not the M13 itself???? Just sayin......

I personally have 3 adapters and when I experienced the issue with my first M13, changing adapters didn't help at all. Also, the adapters worked (and continue to work) fine with other Line 6 gear I have (Variax DI, X3L).

I also believe that Rich's team has investigated this and have rulled out the power supply as the problem. In fact, I think they are even leaning toward it being a software issue more likely than hardware but I don't think they have a definite conclusion yet. Rich will have to update us on where they are.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by dutchteq on 2009-11-26 12:03:19

I had it happen once, about 2 weeks ago.

2.01 version

Powered down (same relay noise as other users) on it's own.

Powered up on it's own.

I power cycled the unit right after it happened and it hasn't done it since.

I always run my gear through a power conditioner.

I have gigged it out a few times since then with no further problems.

I love this thing! The Octoverb on my bass just hits it hard.

And Particle Verb is the coolest pad ever!

I would love to see a few of the effects with bass specific versions (Bass EQ, Bass Chorus & String Synth for example)

Rich - many thanks for really paying attention to this. I see you posting over at TalkBass too and really appreciate your presence and attention to your product!

LINE 6 ROCKS  



Re: M13 Power Problem
by KozMcCharlie on 2009-11-28 12:07:34

I just had this power on and off thing happen to me.  I was warming up for the gig and trying to integrate a wah model for tonight's gig and I had the unit power off then on 3 times in the space of about 5 or so minutes. I played for another 10 minutes and didn't see the problem again before shutting down and packing up.

I don't know that it will help, but it's the first time in a while I had 2 expression pedals connected. I had only ever used pedal 1 before. Everything else was the same playing environment that I've been using in the home studio for the past year + since the unit was new (Except gigs... I wouldn't have been as surprised if it happened at some bar with questionable power...)

Just wanted to report and see if I could help with some info... If you need any more info about what specifically I was doing at the time, I'm happy to help further...



Re: M13 Power Problem
by STimossi on 2009-11-28 12:47:33

I too am having the same problem.  I'm running 1.04. Unit powers off by itself and the next second powers back on. This has happened back to back multiple times and has probably occured about 9 times total. I really dont have the condfidence to really on this thing for a gig at the moment. Please keep me up to date on the situation. I really hope I didn't waste my money :-/



Re: M13 Power Problem
by riffboy on 2009-12-09 16:40:16

Guys,

I've been experiencing the same problem with my unit for the past few days. I grabbed my camera and did a quick video to show the problem. Would love some help on this issue also. Here's the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2j9fzK8nMA



Re: M13 Power Problem
by creekhed on 2009-12-09 20:16:16

I was having this prob the other day in loop mode and I umplugged from the Strip and plugged it into the wall... has not happened since.

I used to have a DL4 that did this too if there was ANY power fluxuation whatoever so I am going to assume I had a flux problem of some sort.

Fingers crossed!



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-12-09 22:22:17

riffboy wrote:

Guys,

I've been experiencing the same problem with my unit for the past few days. I grabbed my camera and did a quick video to show the problem. Would love some help on this issue also. Here's the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2j9fzK8nMA

Thankyou for the video. That is exactly what it looks like. It usually only happens a couple times in a short period of time and never does it again. If you read through this thread you will see that it even happened to me with nothing hooked up to it at 3 in the morning after it was plugged in for hours. We are still investigating it.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by MaxwellJanzen on 2009-12-10 19:44:26

Yes, I have had this problem multiple times too and it is freaking me out.

Can you guys from line 6 tell me what if I should exchange it for another m13 or what?

Would the problem have to do with the 2.0 update or is it a hardware type of problem?



Re: M13 Power Problem
by superkungfukid on 2009-12-11 09:16:22

Another good question to ask is if this issue has popped up for any M9 users? The M9 and M13 share the same basic hardware and software templates, no?

My M13 hasn't had any issues since I've owned it; but I'm definitely keeping my fingers crossed that it remains problem free. All Line 6 gear I've owned in the past has been perfectly reliable, and I have no reason to believe that the M13 will be any different. It does concern me the ever increasing number of users who are experiencing the power problem, but it is still a small number of units compared to the number of units that have been shipped and sold.

It doesn't seem to be anything like the level of the Microsoft Xbox 360 as an example of tragically huge numbers of faulty units for an otherwise awesome product, but I have seen many posts here and at other forums where this M13 issue is becoming more and more common.

That being said, are there any M9 users that have similar issues to report?



Re: M13 Power Problem
by MaxwellJanzen on 2009-12-12 15:02:05

It seems like the humongous 2.0 update would cause the m13 to require more power from the power supply.  I'm no expert, but is this why my m13 is not working?  I know, in the past, various people have said that it has nothing to do with the power supply, but this seems like it could be the cause.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-12-12 17:33:20

MaxwellJanzen wrote:

Yes, I have had this problem multiple times too and it is freaking me out.

Can you guys from line 6 tell me what if I should exchange it for another m13 or what?

Would the problem have to do with the 2.0 update or is it a hardware type of problem?

If you read through this thread you will see it isn't about the hardware or update. It is random and usually happens a couple time and then never again. That is making it so hard to figure out. We are still working on it.

You should contact customer service.

How many times has it done it to you and at what interval?



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-12-12 17:35:09

superkungfukid wrote:

Another good question to ask is if this issue has popped up for any M9 users? The M9 and M13 share the same basic hardware and software templates, no?

My M13 hasn't had any issues since I've owned it; but I'm definitely keeping my fingers crossed that it remains problem free. All Line 6 gear I've owned in the past has been perfectly reliable, and I have no reason to believe that the M13 will be any different. It does concern me the ever increasing number of users who are experiencing the power problem, but it is still a small number of units compared to the number of units that have been shipped and sold.

It doesn't seem to be anything like the level of the Microsoft Xbox 360 as an example of tragically huge numbers of faulty units for an otherwise awesome product, but I have seen many posts here and at other forums where this M13 issue is becoming more and more common.

That being said, are there any M9 users that have similar issues to report?

Not one user of M9 have had this power problem.

As you have said, it is a very few units that have had the problem. We are still looking into it.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-12-12 17:41:11

riffboy wrote:

Guys,

I've been experiencing the same problem with my unit for the past few days. I grabbed my camera and did a quick video to show the problem. Would love some help on this issue also. Here's the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2j9fzK8nMA

Thankyou for the video. We are still trying to figure it out.

Has it happened to you again?



Re: M13 Power Problem
by firepod2 on 2009-12-14 11:57:16

Just posting here to report I have the same problem. Well, actually I had it twice in a rehearsal some days ago. I have firmware v2 installed. I will post again if the random powering off and on problem occurs again.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by riffboy on 2009-12-16 13:40:04

Hey Rich. Yeah its happened a few times now. Seems to only happen after about 30 minutes of playing for me. I only started noticing it after my upgrade to 2.0 and adding another expression pedal. For those that have experienced the M13 turning on and off, are any of you running dual expression pedals on the M13?



Re: M13 Power Problem
by MaxwellJanzen on 2009-12-16 14:39:10

Riffboy: I run two expression pedals and have the problem.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by taberry on 2009-12-17 13:54:55

I've had my M13 about a year, was running 1.04 software until today (updated to 2.01).  This problem happened to me when the unit was a couple months old, probably a coincidence, but it happened when I killed/restored power from a plugstrip rather than the switch on the unit.  As I recall, the problem went on for a little while even after cycling the power several times.  I then powered it off for a longer period of time, and when I came back to it, the problem was gone and I have not seen it since.

I'll keep an eye on this thread in case a solution is found.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by mjsstark on 2009-12-27 13:34:38

Just happened to me. I've had the unit about 6 months, and am running the latest firmware. I don't have any expression pedals.

All the lights were flashing, and so were the displays. The unit turned on and off. I tried to keep playing, but couldn't. The unit would keep turning off. It was aweful, but at least it happened just before the gig.

I brought it home, and have had it on for a few hours, and it seems fine. I can't risk it going out again though. Do I take it back to guitar center, or contact Line6?



Re: M13 Power Problem
by creekhed on 2009-12-27 14:10:16

Were you using the looper when it happened? That seems to be the "Trigger".



Re: M13 Power Problem
by mjsstark on 2009-12-27 14:30:48

No.

I had a delay and 2 reverbs. No looper, no expression pedals. I turned off the reverbs, and left the delay on, and it kept happening. It lasted about 10 minutes in all till I finally just turned it off for good. The only difference I noticed, was that when I powered it on, it sent a high pitch sound through my amp for about a second. That doesn't normally happen.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by Joebarkan on 2009-12-27 14:38:21

I had this reboot problem a few months back, and then it never happened again --- until yesterday.   Now it reboots every few seconds and it won't stop doing it.

When it started I wasn't using any effects and I had no expression pedals plugged in.    Now it just happens all the time, no matter what's on or off.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by mjsstark on 2009-12-27 15:00:40

Are you going to return it for a new one? Did you contact Line6?



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-12-28 02:03:38

Hey new guys as well as guys monitoring this waiting to see what we figure out, I just want to let you know that once we get past the holidays I am going to be calling a meeting of the minds with the guys in engineering. I would call customer service and see what their advice is.

It is such a random problem. As I said, my own unit did it 15 months ago and never again since. It happened at 3 am with nothing plugged into it, I hadn't touched it in 8 hours at least. So we got a couple units back that seem to do it more regularly and a guy posted a good video of it doing the action, so I hope to fill a room with all the guys and explain what is being seen and see if it spurs someone into some ideas. Hang in there, we are on it for sure and as soon as I know something I will talk to Customer Service and get back to you guys.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by Joebarkan on 2009-12-28 08:39:39

Rich,

So what should I do now?   I'd like you guys to get a new unit to me as soon as possible.  I now depend on the M13 for sounds at gigs and rehearsals.   I would think that since you've known about this problem for some time now, Line 6 would have an expedited replacement program in place.

Side note:  Have you looked into the possibility of the power supplies being the problem?   That seems like an obvious thing to check.

I'm running v2.0 on mine.  I'm going to upgrade to 2.01 today to see if that helps.   Though since you guys don't know what's causing it, I know there's no explicit fix in that rev of the firmware.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-12-28 17:13:40

Joebarkan wrote:

Rich,

So what should I do now?   I'd like you guys to get a new unit to me as soon as possible.  I now depend on the M13 for sounds at gigs and rehearsals.   I would think that since you've known about this problem for some time now, Line 6 would have an expedited replacement program in place.

Side note:  Have you looked into the possibility of the power supplies being the problem?   That seems like an obvious thing to check.

I'm running v2.0 on mine.  I'm going to upgrade to 2.01 today to see if that helps.   Though since you guys don't know what's causing it, I know there's no explicit fix in that rev of the firmware.

We did look at the power supply. We tested it with hi and low power and dirtly power. We have tried all the obvious stuff and completely not obvious stuff.

I work closely with Customer Service but I am not in Customer Service so I would give them a call to see what you should do. Or if you hang tight, we are going to be doing that meeting of the meeting of the minds soon.

Has it happened today?



Re: M13 Power Problem
by Joebarkan on 2009-12-29 14:02:00

It was fine yesterday, I updated the firmware to 2.01 successfully.  It was fine after that.  It worked fine this morning, but now it's doing it again --- rebooting every several seconds or so.  I need a new unit.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2009-12-30 15:38:41

Hey Joe,

Did it happen today?

Rich



Re: M13 Power Problem
by farrellk on 2010-01-15 17:53:32

I've had this unit since it was introduced.  No problems until I updated the firmware today (2.01).  After the update was complete, the unit started to re-boot.  I HAD been running the M13 off of a pedalboard, powered with a Voodoo Labs power supply.  That power supply provides about 1200-1300mA of current (yes, I know the provided power supply is rated at 2000mA).  At one point when I was sizing up whether the Voodoo Labs PS would work, I measured a draw on the M13 of around 1100mA.  Even though it's on the hairy edge of current capabilities, I've been using the Voodoo Labs PS for 1+ year, and up to now (firmware upgrade), I've not had the re-booting problem.  After the upgrade (and after the re-booting started), I dug out the original power supply and plugged it in.  No re-booting.  It certainly may be coincidence, but when I get a chance, I'm going to measure to see if there's a change in the current draw of the M13 with the new firmware.  Will follow up if I come up with anything.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by phil_m on 2010-01-15 18:34:35

The Voodoo Labs Pedal Power AC, which I suspect is what you're talking about, doesn't really work.  And you've stated the reason.  It simply can't provide enough current under certain situations.  The thing is the current draw of the M13 changes based on the actual effects that it's using.  I tried using the Pedal Power AC for a while, and I had weird things happen.  One of the Line 6 support people confirmed that the M13's draw is greater than the Pedal Power AC can consistently provide, therefore, it's not a supported method of powering the M13.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by farrellk on 2010-01-16 09:37:07

You're correct - it's the Pedal Power AC unit I've been using.  Up to this point, with my arrangement of effects on the M13, there's not been any issue - even when using the looper.  I use the thing at about half dozen gigs a month.  I will admit that the Voodoo Labs PS' capabilities are certainly barely over the threshold of what the M13 needs to see in certain instances.

I think we're on the same page, in that my re-booting issue post 2.01 upgrade is potentially linked to that lack of juice.  I guess my main observation in this: one of the possible causes for re-boots seems to have been triggered (maybe coincidence?) by a power supply that was already at its current source capacity.  I run an instrumentation calibration facility, so next week I'm going to grab one of our AC current probes to see if there have been any M13 current draw changes (just to satisfy my curiosity - I know I'm not 'fixing' the problem).  During my initial testing last year, I couldn't get the thing to draw over 1200mA using the stock power supply - no matter what combination of effects I tried.  This was under firmware 1.4.

What I'm trying to avoid is mounting another 60Hz noise source on my pedalboard.  Thanks for passing along the info re: your dialog with Line 6 on the Pedal Power AC device - confirms some suspicions, for sure.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by phil_m on 2010-01-16 09:48:12

Your thinking about not putting the power supply on your board was exactly what I was thinking as well.  I never measured what the M13 actually draws, but I imagine what is happening is that when the Pedal Power jack is run close to the 1200mA threshold, the voltage starts to drop.  The M13 seems to be ver sensitive to undervoltage, and I think that why it starts acting up.  Mine never outright shut down, but the LCDs would start getting jumbled.  Once I switched power supplies, it was never an issue again.

It is kind of a shame, but overall I'm actually kind of glad I ended up getting rid of the Pedal Power.  It actually forced mo re-evaluate m whole board, and I went in a direction I wouldn't have gone otherwise.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by farrellk on 2010-01-21 16:28:11

I'm now a believer in Line 6's conclusion that this isn't a power issue.  With the stock power supply, I continue to have reboots.  A few minutes ago, I abondoned playing through it after the thing rebooted about a dozen+ times in a 30-minute period.  I tried reloading v2.01 firmware again over the weekend - with no change in the reboot behavior.  What's interesting is that the update went without a hitch (again) - I was concerned that the thing would reboot during the update, toasting the unit.

I've had this thing since Sept 2008, without incident.  When I updated my 1.04 firmware to 2.01 last week, the unit immediately started exhibiting this problem.  Now it just doesn't stop, but it's certainly upredictable.  Without a doubt, this thing is my favorite utilitarian piece of gear.  I haven't tried the new options that are implemented in v2.01, mainly because the rebooting is so annoying.  I'm assuming a return to the factory is now the solution?



Re: M13 Power Problem
by farrellk on 2010-01-21 16:33:43

By the way - one odd thing: With all four effects on BYPASS, the unit was still re-booting.  I stopped playing, and watched it happen several times.  I wasn't expecting that to happen when no effects were on.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by jpdennis on 2010-01-21 16:48:02

I am new and this is probably a dumb question.  Have you gone into setup just to make a change to the global settings, saved, went back in to check the settings to make sure they did save, then turned it off, then turned it on to validate the settings stayed, then tried running it?  Also, sometime a firmware update on systems I would run had a problem of eating the EPROMM memory stack based upon size of flash versus version of EPROMM chip.  Kind of like what I call a stack overflow.  Also, while I do not know if this is applicable, a rouge power spike could do wonders to RAMM and leave you chasing your tail for a solution while watching symptomatic results which mask the root cause.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2010-01-21 18:05:07

jpdennis wrote:

I am new and this is probably a dumb question.  Have you gone into setup just to make a change to the global settings, saved, went back in to check the settings to make sure they did save, then turned it off, then turned it on to validate the settings stayed, then tried running it?  Also, sometime a firmware update on systems I would run had a problem of eating the EPROMM memory stack based upon size of flash versus version of EPROMM chip.  Kind of like what I call a stack overflow.  Also, while I do not know if this is applicable, a rouge power spike could do wonders to RAMM and leave you chasing your tail for a solution while watching symptomatic results which mask the root cause.

That is good info to put into the meeting I am going to have. Even though it seems so completely random, it can't be.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2010-01-21 18:08:37

Hey, check your PM.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by farrellk on 2010-01-21 18:21:59

PM?



Re: M13 Power Problem
by jpdennis on 2010-01-21 23:34:45

Line6Renken,

The thing about going into setup was more for the flash update.  Some computers where I have flashed the ROM provided new BIOS feature sets which, unless going into BIOS and "touching" the darn thing, mysteriously seemed to create random system reboots based upon CPU clock errors.

Dennis



Re: M13 Power Problem
by DeeDub1962 on 2010-01-30 15:59:23

Well.. add me to the list of people who've experienced this problem. First time... on a gig, no less! Aaarrgghhh!

I have mine running off a PedalPower 2. I checked and rechecked all cables to and from the power supply. Tried cycling the on/off switch. Nada. Then, it came back on, and stayed on with only one small glitch. After that, it stayed on the rest of the night! Frustrating, for sure. We're at the same venue again tonight, and I'm going to try running my power from a different source outlet. Let's see if it happens again! (I REALLY hope not!!!)



Re: M13 Power Problem
by phil_m on 2010-01-30 17:00:58

The Pedal Power (I assume you mean the Pedal Power AC , not the PP2 which is DC only) does not have enough capacity to consistently power the M13.  Your problem is most likely related to that rather than the other issue.  The Pedal Power isn't a supported power supply.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by DeeDub1962 on 2010-01-30 23:41:18

I should have clarified that I'm using the courtesy outlet on the PP2, using the M13 power supply, not any of the regular 9v or 12v power outlets.

Having said that, I had to leave it plugged in where it was last night... and tonight on the gig... no issues whatsoever! Very strange.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by farrellk on 2010-01-31 15:41:56

I wanted to report back on where my rebooting problem ended up.  Re-cap: After my firmware update, my unit immediately started rebooting.  I flashed again and it continued to reboot.  Thinking it was my pedalboard's power supply, I reverted back to the original power supply.  The rebooting stopped, so I was agreeing with others that my problem was probably related to an inadequate supply of current or voltage drop.  Days later, I had a chance to try it again with the factory supply, and the unit started rebooting - about a dozen times in a 30 minute period.  So much for the power supply thought...

My next step was to try jpdennis' suggestion of changing a parameter or two in the System menu - essentially 'touching' the newly updated firmware.  This was an interesting idea, because the first time I updated the firmware, I hadn't made any changes to anything.  The unit just started rebooting - so I went into 'troubleshooting mode' and started trying to figure out what the problem was (without tweaking anything).  After updating the firmware again, I started auditioning sounds without modifying any system items.  When it started rebooting later, I went into 'troubleshooting mode' again, and it hadn't occurred to me to change anything.  With the unit in this state, I changed a couple of settings in the System menu (based on jpdennis' idea).  Since that time, the unit has not rebooted once (that I know of).  I've used it for hours.  I've left the looper running for hours.  No reboots.  I have no idea if this is coincidence, voodoo, or if there is validity to jpdennis' idea that the unit is potentially in a 'state of flux' post-firmware-update.  If the reboot gremlins return, I'll be sure to let you all know.

By the way, thanks to Rich Redken for his support - he's been invaluable in trying to get to the bottom of what's going on.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2010-02-01 19:50:07

Private Message.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2010-02-01 19:51:25

jpdennis wrote:

Line6Renken,

The thing about going into setup was more for the flash update.  Some computers where I have flashed the ROM provided new BIOS feature sets which, unless going into BIOS and "touching" the darn thing, mysteriously seemed to create random system reboots based upon CPU clock errors.

Dennis

Now that is interesting. Something to bring to the powwow JCJCJCJC and I are putting together.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2010-02-01 19:52:10

Thank you. It is a weird one. Thanks all for hanging in there with me while we try to stamp it out.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by MetalHellBoy on 2010-02-09 13:31:23

Hi

I got the same problem with my x3 live. Started after the usb drop put fix!

http://line6.com/community/message/118021#118021



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2010-02-09 18:22:17

Probably not related but it may provide a clue. Thank you for posting.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by stone2018 on 2010-02-17 10:17:29

Hi,

I got the M13 about 6 months ago. Worked just fine untill about a month ago when it started having the power problem exactly as described in this thread (shutting down/starting up at random). I was in the middle of a live radio session when it first happened, which was quite awkward. I already bought a new power supply, thinking that that could be the problem, but it keeps doing it, very frequently. I bought it second hand from a guy that had only used it once (he had won it in a contest), which makes going to a store to have it fixed under warranty a bit difficult. Any suggestions for someone living in Belgium experiencing this problem?

thanks in advance!



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2010-02-25 04:50:15

stone2018 wrote:

Hi,

I got the M13 about 6 months ago. Worked just fine untill about a month ago when it started having the power problem exactly as described in this thread (shutting down/starting up at random). I was in the middle of a live radio session when it first happened, which was quite awkward. I already bought a new power supply, thinking that that could be the problem, but it keeps doing it, very frequently. I bought it second hand from a guy that had only used it once (he had won it in a contest), which makes going to a store to have it fixed under warranty a bit difficult. Any suggestions for someone living in Belgium experiencing this problem?

thanks in advance!

Just subscribe to this thread and keep checking back. It will probably stop doing it soon and never do it again. We will be doing that meeting of the minds meeting in March when I get back from overseas. Hang in there.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by cis689 on 2010-03-08 12:36:55

I have had the unit for about 5 months. Never gigged. The unit power cycles itself almost everytime I play. Will GC warranty this??

(This is not good after I have had a Toneport UX2 die on me too - c'mon Line6)



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2010-03-17 09:21:07

Is it still doing it? If you read through this thread, you will know why I ask.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2010-03-17 09:23:58

Hey Guys,

Quick update. We are working on getting a unit back here from our neighbor to the north. As soon as it is here we are going to call the meeting of the minds. I have to go to the Musikmesse trade show next week so this will all likely happen in April finally. Thank you to all you guys waiting patiently, I do appreciate it.

Peace,

Rich



Re: M13 Power Problem
by jpdennis on 2010-03-31 15:26:53

Has anyone heard back from Farrellk since he applied my "logic" to touch the system settings?  If not maybe we should find out if he is still having reboot problems.

Dennis



Re: M13 Power Problem
by farrellk on 2010-04-01 06:41:10

To jpdennis:

Yes - please see my post from Jan 31, 2010.  In it, I give the state of the unit after 'touching' the parameters, and was going to report back if problems surfaced again.  Since that time, I've had zero re-boots or problems.  Thanks again for the suggestion, which seems to have had a huge influence on the issue my unit was having.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by litesnsirens on 2010-04-01 13:11:29

farrellk, did you ever go back to using the alternate power supply?  I am curious because I am using the provided power supply to power my M13 through a pedal snake.  If I power straight to the M13 no problem ... If I power through the pedal snake my display for unit 2 goes all wonky.  Unit 1, 3 and 4 seem unaffected but unit 2 goes crazy ... it corrects itself occasionally but inevitably goes back to the wonky display.   Aside from the display the unit works flawlessly, scenes change quickly and sound perfect and the individual effects in that bank work prefectly.  So I have to wonder if the power problems are related to the supply?  Any other pedal I supply power to through pedal snake have never had any issues, that said none of them have ever had those sort of digital displays.  Just to be clear I bought the 2 power adapters for the pedal snake taking it from the 2.1 to the 2.5 that Line 6 uses.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by farrellk on 2010-04-01 13:59:19

litesnsirens: Please understand that I am not recommending this, but the answer to your question is 'Yes.'

During the period where I had issues after updating my M13's firmware, I had removed the unit from my pedalboard and was using the original M13 power supply to diagnose/troubleshoot.  After the problems disappeared (after jpdennis' suggestion to 'touch' the parameters), I installed the M13 back on my pedalboard.  Of course, I was concerned that the Voodoo Labs Pedal Power AC might wreak further havoc, but I was committed to at least giving it a shot.

Even though the Pedal Power AC is operating at the upper range of its current sourcing capacity with the M13, I've not had a problem (heat/overload of the Voodoo Labs unit, or M13 display/performance issues).  Somebody else's mileage may vary with this approach, and I believe the official word is that it's not recommended.

Your situation sounds different - perhaps something like a a voltage drop across your pedal snake cable, or maybe induced noise on its power lead.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by litesnsirens on 2010-04-02 04:31:45

Thanks farrellk, I had been looking at Voodoo Labs as a power source but didn't think I saw one with the right specs.  I will investigate further.  I think whatever the issue is with my power it must be minor in nature since it is only affecting the display.

That being said, I'm not at home right now so I can't look on the M13 itself, nor have I been able to find it documented anywhere.  Does anyone know how much current the M13 draws?.  I'm pretty sure the adaptor can deliver 2000 mA, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the M13 requires that much, as farrelk says he is able to power his with his pedal power AC which at the most can deliver 1200mA.

I apologize for steering this thread in a bit of a different direction, but the common goal is to have our M13's powered appropriately and working as expected, so I figure all info and findings are important.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by TimBridges on 2010-04-04 07:51:55

Hi there,

I'm in the UK, so using 240v 50Hz power supply (original as supplied with M13)

Have had the unit for well over a year, running version 2.0 s/ware.

No problems at all until last night, when the power cycling started.

Kept doing it for 15-20 minutes, I tried different wall outlets, with and without guitar plugged in, in and out of effects loop, no (positive) effect.

Turned it off, found this thread and thought I would post my issues in the morning.

Powered M13 up this morning, it has been on for several hours, no glitches.

Would you believe it, as I am finishing this post it has started cycling again!!!!

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

This is the worst type of fault, NOT CONSISTENT!

Guys, I cannot gig with this type of problem, please resolve it soonest

Thanks in advance

Tim



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2010-04-08 00:14:29

TimBridges wrote:

Hi there,

I'm in the UK, so using 240v 50Hz power supply (original as supplied with M13)

Have had the unit for well over a year, running version 2.0 s/ware.

No problems at all until last night, when the power cycling started.

Kept doing it for 15-20 minutes, I tried different wall outlets, with and without guitar plugged in, in and out of effects loop, no (positive) effect.

Turned it off, found this thread and thought I would post my issues in the morning.

Powered M13 up this morning, it has been on for several hours, no glitches.

Would you believe it, as I am finishing this post it has started cycling again!!!!

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

This is the worst type of fault, NOT CONSISTENT!

Guys, I cannot gig with this type of problem, please resolve it soonest

Thanks in advance

Tim

Thank you for posting Tim. We appreciate it. Has the unit done this again since the 4th?



Re: M13 Power Problem
by aaalp on 2010-04-08 03:16:38

Hi all,

I posted about my experience on this problem earlier. After that my M13 was working fine maybe for a month. Then it started to do power cycling thing again and, i totaly lost my love with this unit. I didn't touched it for almost three months, only plugged my guitar to it a few times to use tuner.. yes, i used this big -replace all- unit just as a tuner for months. Then one day I tought about using the looper function while i was practicing. Plugged M13 to my guitar and amp again. It was fine, didn't turned itself on/off, sounded good (always did)...  So when i finished practicing, i left all setup as it is plugged to each other. Since then it didn't do on/off cycling for three months i guess.. i was even convinced that i could use it live instead of using it as a tuner or for home practice. Altough the only difference in application was my expression pedal was not plugged to the unit so i started to think maybe this has to do something with the problem... anyway, to make it short.. it did it again, and it does it frequently as before... it did that when expression pedal is plugged or not plugged.. it did that while using looper, it did that while tweaking parameters, it did that while using this or that effect / effect combinations, it did that when every effect was bypassed... it did that in any possible situation I can imagine.

By the way, I am still using the firmware 1.04 as it came from the factory... didn't updated anything, didn't do any factory reset etc... I only used it with it's own power supply. I belive it has nothing to do with the power supply / electricity. My cell phone started doing a very very similar turn itself off/on thing and it started to that after a firmware update which offers new functions. I totally belive this is a software problem.. or maybe some of ours units have bad hardware that can't cope with the software...



Re: M13 Power Problem
by Willstg on 2010-05-01 09:17:11

   Having purchased a used M13 from Banjo Mart, I have been following this thread with some interest. It got me thinking, as an audio engineer I have experienced odd crashes on large format digital mixing consoles (Calrec Sigma) which were related to problems with the flash ram memory.  I was wondering if this might be a similar software problem.

  What would happen with the Sigmas is the flash ram memory would somehow get a minor corruption in code.  Then everytime one did a memory save with new parameters, the errors/corruption of the constant flash memory would get worse and worse.  Eventually you'd have major errors in the board.  (And often the Calrec Reps, unlike you guys at Line 6, would blame the end user for creating problems rather than taking responsibility for the faults of their own product.  Of course, the money people in a corporation aren't techs so they don't know who is CYA in these situations; the Reps would throw a tech under the bus in a heartbeat for a $250,000 sale. Ack.)

   Anyway, just thinking flash memory could be the culprit. And if so, perhap introducing a periodic "Flash Ram Cleansing routine" could help with product stability, maybe when one does a scene memory save.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by climbhigh77 on 2010-05-01 10:40:28

Mine has done it as well so there MUST be an issue goin' on. It has done it to me twice since owning the unit since mid Jan/2010. 



Re: M13 Power Problem
by TimBridges on 2010-05-02 06:43:54

Actually, it was fine for a couple of weeks, then yesterday, I went to audition for a new band........

You guessed it, the damn thing started cutting in and out, then after about five minutes of this shut down completely.

So, I make my apologies, take it out of circuit (I use the send and return facility) and carry on without it.

I then notice it has come back on (and stayed on), so, I plug it all back in..............

And the damn thing starts doing it again.

Please, you have got to fix this issue pronto.

I have some important gigs coming up, and I cannot afford to buy a replacement (and would I want to?), and it is out of warranty.

Please update me with the fix, or replace the unit .

Tim



Re: M13 Power Problem
by TimBridges on 2010-05-03 03:00:12

This is very strange.

Thought some more about the last few times the M13 has had this problem, and worked through my usual way of connecting and powering up.

Usually, I power the unit up by plugging into mains (the on/off switch on the M13 is always on), then connect the send and returns to my amp (EBS350 Gorm combo, or EBS350 head).

I wondered if there was a possibility that either when I connect the send/return leads, or when I power up the amps, that a small 'spike' was finding it's way to the M13 and unsettling it somehow?

So, last night I tried the following:

All power off

On/off switch on M13 off

Connected send/return leads to M13

Powered up amp

Powered up M13

So far (3-4 hours), the M13 has not tripped out

This might just be coincidence, or could the M13 be more sensitive than we think (not very rock'n'roll, eh?)

Your thoughts?



Re: M13 Power Problem
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2010-05-03 04:26:47

TimBridges wrote:


Usually, I power the unit up by plugging into mains (the on/off switch on the M13 is always on)

My guess is that there are both shutdown and startup routines in the firmware that are triggered by the proper power up and power down using the on/off switch on the unit.  Many DSP-based units have something like this and you are warned to never power them up just by turning on a surge strip or power conditioner, or you risk some kind of corruption or unintended behavior.  I don't know that this is the case with the M13, but it wouldn't surprise me.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by TimBridges on 2010-05-03 04:55:27

Karl,

Thanks for that, it wouldn't surprise me either.

I am rehearsing tonight, so will see how it goes.

BTW, you were up early this morning, your post timed at just after 4 am, ???

have a great day

Tim



Re: M13 Power Problem
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2010-05-03 05:01:24

TimBridges wrote:

BTW, you were up early this morning, your post timed at just after 4 am, ???

LOL...I'm on the east coast.  It was about 730am here.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by TimBridges on 2010-05-03 05:05:32

Well,

Today is May 3rd, so i am hoping you got back safe from Musicmesse and that the much trumpeted meeting of minds has occurred.

Can you share with the community the outcome, and the fix for this show-stopping (literally) problem?

regards



Re: M13 Power Problem
by TimBridges on 2010-05-03 05:06:43

+



Re: M13 Power Problem
by phil_m on 2010-05-03 08:28:30

That very well could be the case, but I don't think I've used the power switch on my M13 for over a year.  I always just turn it on by plugging in my pedalboard.  I haven't had the cycling issue.  I could see this being an issue of the firmware corruption, though.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by cdoerman on 2010-05-03 08:52:06

phil_m wrote:

That very well could be the case, but I don't think I've used the power switch on my M13 for over a year.  I always just turn it on by plugging in my pedalboard.  I haven't had the cycling issue.  I could see this being an issue of the firmware corruption, though.

I'd be curious to get Rich's take on this. I would think that M13/M9 had to have been designed and tested with the use case of using external power switching in mind since that would be very common on pedalboards. I would be surprised if M13 wasn't *intended* to work in this way.

That said, there is obviously a problem here and it seems that changing parameters as suggested earlier will correct it. Maybe it is related to how the device is powered on. I can say that when I experienced the problem on a brand new unit that was only a couple days old (which I immediately returned to GC for a replacement) - it had been exclusively powered on/off using the unit's switch (by me). I used the unit for a couple days before the problem started happening.

My replacement unit has been working like a champ now for 6+ months.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by robiepogi on 2010-06-15 21:42:19

first of all, I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THIS M13 but last night, it just put me in a predicament that it was both scary

and embarrassing. I play guitar for band that is HEAVILY using a lot of mod effects, filters etc... technically all the good

stuff that you would find in the m13. but alas, at the middle of the song, my m13 starting flickering in and out; lcd screens

where off and on . to me it was somewhat relays clicking on and off. THANK GOD that my key board player recognized

the problem and since a lot of his synth stuffs and what not are actual virtual instruments ran by his mac, he kinda saved my butt.

after that song, we just decided to continue with our songs that were older and more straight up.

IS THERE A WAY TO FIX THIS? CAN I GET A REPLACEMENT UNIT?!?!?!

LINE 6 PLEASE HELP ME OUT!!!!!



Re: M13 Power Problem
by viejasbotas on 2010-07-11 01:59:43

Yikes. I'm on my second M13 now. The first one I returned to the seller due to the power cycling problem. The second one I've been using without problem for about 8 months, when yesterday it started cycling on and off! I'd been in the studio all day and it behaved normally - until I started tweaking a scene - added in a couple of delay models, then bang - off/on. Turned it off and on, same thing. Tried again - ditto. Left it for a while, turned back on, acted fine.

Line 6 - it's been a while since there were any updates here. Any news please? Need to know what to do now as I dread this happening mid-gig.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by ozbadman on 2010-07-14 17:02:13

Hi guys,

I don't have an M13 yet, but am considering getting one so am interested in the result of this discussion. Can someone who's been seeing these problems give any indication as to whether it may be heat related?

Specifically, either

(1) the power supply has heated up and can't supply sufficient current, or

(2) the M13 has heated up and is drawing more current.

It is possible that the firmware upgrade caused more cpu cycles, and hence, generates more heat/draws more current so it may be a combination of the thing already being on the edge and the upgrade pushed it over or even, some internal bug that keeps the cpu running hard even when no effects are selected, also generating heat/drawing current.

My thought is essentially no-one seems to have mentioned any relationship to heat, so I'm interested if it could be a component of the problem and if anyone seeing this problem has tested this?

Cheers,

David.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by creekhed on 2010-07-15 03:21:45

No one seems to have THE ANSWER...but...

I know my DL4 HATES dirty power or voltage drops/spikes of ANY KIND and I have a inkling that this unit is similar in that regard. The only time my unit did this was about 8 mos ago. It kept doing it OVER AND OVER so I switched power strips and WHALLAH....power issue GONE. (KNOCK ON WOOD!!!)



Re: M13 Power Problem
by soundchasm on 2010-07-28 00:27:31

Hello,

Add my voice to this (hopefully) small cadre of unfortunates.  The unit has been fun to work with, so I am pleased with it overall.

The power cycle first happened in rehearsal with some unit lights flickering, and the unit came right back to its pre-boot condition.  A few months pass and it happens again during rehearsal.  Sometimes it seems that one reboot is followed fairly quickly by a second reboot (<10 min), but I haven't heard any terrible noises associated with the booting other than a slightly ungraceful transition to bypass and back.

I feel like I've had a few reboots in the last few weeks, and I found this thread.  Glad I found it; sorry we're here!

It is completely random as far as I can determine.  No specific amount of time or perceptible setting combination.

I wonder if it might be a specific patch that we've all engaged or tweaked somehow, like a particular verb, chorus, delay or overdrive.  Once invoked, it may have the defect of sending spurious data downstream.

Could it be the order of FX?  This is notorious stuff and I support those who try to help.

Thanks,

Greg



Re: M13 Power Problem
by cis689 on 2010-07-28 05:19:19

Now, first off I have to knock on this big piece of wood next to me but since the firmware upgrade I have had ZERO issues with this unit rebooting on me. Prior to it was a constant thing. Hope that helps.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by viejasbotas on 2010-07-28 12:47:40

Please could someone from Line 6 reply and let us know you haven't totally forgotten about us here?



Re: M13 Power Problem
by y2stevo on 2010-07-30 18:15:12

I bought this pedal thursday (yesterday) got to mess around with it for about an hour and was very impressed with what it could do. Just earlier today i was getting pedals and sounds set up for a gig tonight and it started this power cycling that has been described in this thread. it repeated this maybe 4 or 5 times, each time the Screens would flash, the word "bypass" would pop up on random screens displaying the full word and on other screens displaying the incomplete word and i could hear the relays clicking. It seemd to work "fine" for the next 20 minutes or so as i finished setting up a scene, so i decided to chance bringing it along.

At sound check  just as i was tuning the thing shut down twice then couldn't be revived. So i ended up playing the gig effectless (i had accidentally left behind the power supply to my backup pedals!!)

I bought this in Xmusic in ireland and after reading this thread i think i'll be letting them keep it when i bring it back in the morning, because it's just totally unacceptable to be paying nearly €500 for a piece of kit that you Hope will work through a full gig..

The best of luck finding out what the cause of this is and when you do please be vocal about resolving it because if i could be guaranteed this wouldn't shut off mid gig i'd get one again in a heartbeat,

it's a crackin pedal full of crackin sounds!!, too bad its not reliable.

Cheers

EDIT: I just want to say i powered my unit up this morning and the problem has not gone away, it repeatedly powered off and on, I have now returned it to xmusic (Who were extremely helpful BTW) and am going to use my current setup till/if line6 fix the issue.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by TimBridges on 2010-07-31 05:06:54

Hi there.

It is now July 31st, and still no reply (that I have seen) from Line6 support on this issue.

Are you guys just hoping it will go away?

I cannot return my unit under warranty as it is way past 12 months, but i still believe that the responsibility lies with Line6 to resolve the issue.

For your information, since I started using the power switch on the back of the unit to up/down power, and always ensure it is last thing turned on, first thing turned off I have not had the problem.

So, is it just very sensitive, or have I just been lucky?

You tell me..................



Re: M13 Power Problem
by dutchteq on 2010-07-31 08:44:12

@ TimBridges: as a fellow "sufferer" of the same problem, I think you are just lucky at this point. It will probably return at the most inopportune time possible - Murphy will guarantee that for you.   I'm not sure to what extent this is a problem as I have no idea what the "good unit vs. bad unit" ratio is. If you really like the pedal then get in touch with the company directly and speak to someone about the problem. It's way out in the open and they can't deny there is an issue. Users have posted video and I have had mine replaced for the same problem ( I was fortunate enough to be under warranty). you might want to message "Line6Renken". He has been very active in gathering info about this problem until recently. Maybe he can help you out. Good Luck.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by Notooth on 2010-08-09 11:02:04

No problem with the cycling shut down problem since 2.01 came out so I thought the problem was solved.  Saturday I'm practicing for the gig that same night and boom lights flicker, relay clicks, and shut down and power up cycle starts.  I immediately switched the power adapter, since I keep a back-up, but the problem continues.  I then pulled the adapter from the power strip and put it directly into a wall outlet and the problem stopped.  I was crossing my fingers about the gig.  I set up for the gig that night and during sound check it happens again.  Long story short, I managed to get 2 sets out of the M13 until it finally quit on me in the 3rd set.  I run it through my loop so I just went dry the rest of the night.  The only thing I changed which may have caused the problem was adding 2 new effects (pitch glide and Octsynth) to my main scene.  I powered the unit on the day after the gig and no problems.  My M13 is unreliable and out of warranty.  What should I do now Line 6?  I reported my first problem with the unit when it was still under warranty but because the problem seemed to go away on it's own I did not pursue an exchange.  Is anybody else still experiencing problems?



Re: M13 Power Problem
by howdthattaste on 2010-08-09 11:43:26

<< I immediately switched the power adapter, since I keep a back-up, but the problem continues.  I then pulled the adapter from the power strip and put it directly into a wall outlet and the problem stopped.>>

did you use the same power strip at the gig?



Re: M13 Power Problem
by aaalp on 2010-08-09 12:07:49

Line6 reported in this thread that they tried bad powering conditions like low voltage, high voltage, etc. and could not be able to make power cycling thing happen. I used many digital or analog signal processing gear in my time and never saw a similar issue caused by electricity. Amps happened to lose some volume but nothing ever gone dead and came back to life again like in this issue. Considering it happens very rare i wouldn't blame power adapter either. It seems like it is a software bug or faulty hardware :/



Re: M13 Power Problem
by Notooth on 2010-08-09 12:36:36

Thanks for the reply.  Since the power adapter and the power strip are not the problem (I used a different power adapter at the gig btw) I can only assume that when I added the new effects to my scene that it somehow triggered the problem.  I mainly use one scene during my gigs.  I have made reverb, delay, and harmony changes but this is the first time I added Octsynth and Pitch Glide.  Not sure if one of those caused the problem.  I think I'll change those effects back to what I had before and see what happens.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by TimBridges on 2010-08-09 12:45:56

My comment here would be that I have not had the problem since I started switching the M13 on last and off first.

What really lights my fire here is the complete silence from Line6.

C'mon guys, we are your CUSTOMERS, what about a bit of service?



Re: M13 Power Problem
by howdthattaste on 2010-08-09 12:46:32

<<Since the power adapter and the power strip are not the problem>>

im probably missing something here:

you said you changed the power adapter, problem persisted.

you removed the power strip, problem gone.

This to me says that either the power strip itself, or another device plugged into the powerstrip might have been causing the problem. i was wondering if you put the power strip back into the mix at the gig, which then causes the problem to re-occur.

Regardless, aaalp says L6 tried various voltage loss/gain scenarios and couldn't replicate.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by TimBridges on 2010-08-09 12:50:32

Without wishing to get abusive, when are you guys going to do the decent thing and answer all the posts on this issue.

It is not isolated, doesn't seem to be firmware version dependant but is really ticking off a bunch of people who might well buy another guys product next, such is the (apparent) lack of interest at Line6

Grrrrrr, really narked about this

Tim



Re: M13 Power Problem
by Jeff-Lang on 2010-08-11 18:14:42

Just a follow up with the problem I had with my M13 switching off and on randomly...

I was lucky enough that the shop I purchased it from (Billy Hydes in Melbourne, Australia) were understanding enough to swap the unit for me.

Mine did power down without cause in the shop when I was showing them the problem, so it (fortunately) vindicated my claim, not sure what would happen if the unit failed to act up. In fact when it went back to the supplier they apparently COULDN'T get it to misbehave at all!

Just for the record, I had done no updates at all, just programmed in a few scenes and gigged with it, always with the supplied power supply.

The new one didn't act up in the short space I used it for, but for now I've gone back to individual FX boxes for my setup - nowhere near as flexible as the M13, but until SOMEONE from Line6 works this out I simply can't trust it to work properly in a gigging situation.

So, in light of the flood of complaints about this it seems NOT to be the marginal occurance that Line6Renkin initially indicated, but something far more troubling for the reputation of the companies' products it appears to me.

Surely someone has worked this design flaw out by now???



Re: M13 Power Problem
by phil_m on 2010-08-11 19:10:08

Not trying to minimize the problem in any way, but I don't know if I'd call it a flood of complaints.  It seems to me to be relatively sporadic and hard to repeat - which is probably why Line 6 is being slow to respond.  They are probably actually having trouble nailing down what the issue exactly is.  They are very good at correcting things once the cause of the problem is known - look at their response to the footswitch and USB issues with the X3L, or the DSP bypass issue with the M9.  They were pretty good at responding to those.  It just seems like solving this particular issue is alluding them.  It certainly doesn't seem like something that should prevent anyone from buying an M13.  Of all the people who post here, which has to be in the hundreds, it seems like there may be several dozen with this issue.  It just doesn't seem too widespread.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by Danjuan on 2010-08-14 17:03:46

I've had my M13 for at least a year and a half.  I just had this problem tonight for the first time.

From reading the thread I see LIne 6 has offered no solution but I thought I would give all the info just incase it helps.

It cycled off and on about 10 times over the course of an hours practice.  All lights went red before shut off and then it kicked back with the effects still as they were when it turned off.  Only one time when it powered back on all the effects were turned off.

I turned it off for an hour while I found this forum and read up on the problem.  I just plugged it back in and now it's doing the same thing again.  It's currently just sitting on with no leads plugged in and it's still doing it.  No obvious pattern to the time between cycles.

I set the different effects up the week I bought it and I haven't changed anything at all since.  Never updated any firmware or even touched an effect knob since I initially set them up.   Only ever used it with supplied power adapter and always plugged it in with the power switch in the off position and then switched the power on.

I've used the unit in many different locations, lots of different gigs and never had this problem.

The only thing I have changed is that I started using it with a BOSS BR-1600 home recording mixer.  Although, I've been doing that every day for a week and this is the first time it has happened.

About 6 months ago I opened it up because one of the effect switches stopped clicking on and off consistently.  The spring for that switch had become over compressed do I expanded the spring and put everything back together.  It had been absolutely fine in the months since but I thought I should include this info.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by creekhed on 2010-08-17 07:48:34

Well it happened AGAIN! ...and, of COURSE AT A GIG!!! ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Cycled on and off and kept doing it over and over. I finally took it out of my rig and tried it again 2nd set....SAME DEAL!!!!

WTF????????????????????????????

Line 6 needs to RECALL these units and FAST! This is BS! I paid almost $500 for a PAPERWEIGHT?



Re: M13 Power Problem
by viejasbotas on 2010-08-28 12:16:03

Ok, in the absence of a reply from Line 6 I'm going to send my unit back (still under warranty thankfully). Has anyone here had any experience of successfully returning the unit in the UK? It's a slightly odd one in that you can't replicate the problem easily!



Re: M13 Power Problem
by m13paul84 on 2010-08-30 05:49:35

Dear Line 6, I originally posted a tread (http://line6.com/community/thread/42385?tstart=0)because of the power problem, but based on the discussion here I would like to contribute to this general post.

Previously I noticed it happened (displays goes to red color > relays clicks > turn off > turn on) sometimes only during playing, sometimes when I was manually changing types of the effect (distortion). Yesterday it happened to me again, when I was changing type of distortion on FX unit 1, when I switched it '4 Band Shift EQ' it freezed and restarted . Probably it is not effect dependent, but maybe it occurs when you change/enable an effect. Do you guys facing this problem just during playing or when you changing effects (anyhow - MIDI, manually on M13, ..) ?

Line 6, could you please at least inform us about the status? Are you still working of this ISSUE?

I think many guys here can't use this unit because of this problem. Personally, I played the unit approx. 20-times since I bought it and this happend 5x, so in my opinion it is necessary to resolve the problem asap or inform us what to do. Otherwise, I will have to return in back (I don't want to loose it, trust me..)

Thanks,

Paul



Re: M13 Power Problem
by Lotharyx on 2010-09-20 11:20:12

Line6Renken,

Any news?  It looks like this thread hasn't seen a post from you since March 17.

This past Sunday, I encountered this issue for the first time.  The unit turned off and caused a loud noise because my volume pedal happens to be in the M13's effects loop (and was therefore bypassed all of a sudden) [this risky setup is because the VP is part of another multi-effector that I need to be between some of the M13 modules, ahead of things like delays and 'verbs].

The unit cycled on and off fairly randomly for a few minutes.  I noticed that all the colored LEDs flickered in random colors for an instant or two just before it would shut off completely (making me think that firmware is involved, rather than just a loose power connection).  Cycling the power switch and unplugging/replugging the power supply had no impact on the issue.  I removed the M13 from my chain and set it aside at that point; I have not tried to use it since (just haven't had time yet).

I've not updated my firmware since purchasing the unit a couple years ago; I think I am on 1.07.  Since there are still reports of the issue ongoing, I suspect a firmware upgrade is not going to make much difference.

Anyway, I too am very interested in the latest news on this.  What happened at the Meeting of the Minds you said was going to take place?

Many kind regards and kudos for a vast array of incredible sound processing gear that otherwise excels in almost every way (though I wish some of the stompboxes had a bit more headroom, but I think that is the nature of the digital beast...it can't handle too-hot inputs as gracefully as some analog components can).



Re: M13 Power Problem
by welshboyo on 2010-09-27 03:27:14

Hi all,

Anymore news on this one?

Reason I ask is that my unit seems to have started this problem after 6 months of perfect operation!!

Unit has sat in the loop of my rig (sometimes in 4cm, sometimes in normal loop config) has controlled my ampswitching via Midi etc etc, and hasn't missed a beat.

In a weak moment, I decided to swap the unit with a friend so I performed a factory reset on it to erase all my settings, shipped to my friend and boom!!, it starts playing up!!

cheers

WB



Re: M13 Power Problem
by DavidBarrett on 2010-10-05 05:40:37

I've had my M13 for a couple of years and no problem, it's the best effects unit I've owned

However, I had the exact same problem described in this post occur yesterday at rehearsal.

The only thing we've done differently is include a large powered monitor and Moog Taurus bass pedals, which were also acting up, they wouldn't stay in tune (not uncommon for them I know!) but the fluctuation was unusually high and made them unusable, perhaps the issue with the M13 is related to unstable power, I will get a power conditioner and try today as I have an important gig Thursday and need to resolve this. I talked with a friend at Line 6 last night, and he said they still don't know what is causing this. Any chance of getting another unit from Line 6 or at least one at cost, because the problem doesn't seem fixable



Re: M13 Power Problem
by Lotharyx on 2010-10-05 07:28:21

I'll pipe up to say that mine has displayed the same subsequent perfectly normal behavior.  The weirdness happens once (at a particularly inopportune moment for me, alas), and never happens again.

DavidBarrett, you probably will not need to replace your M13, if my (and others') experience is any indicator.

With that said, I'd still be quite happy to hear of a known cause and solution.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by DavidBarrett on 2010-10-05 18:38:49

I have borrowed a back up M13 (will program it the same as mine)

Also, I tried a Furman power conditioner and the problem happened again. I then put my rig through a UPS (uninterrupted power supply) and the problem went away...for now, hopefully that's the end of it. Any more news and I'll post it as soon as I can, many thanks!



Re: M13 Power Problem
by soundchasm on 2010-10-05 21:54:59

I wish one of us had a VAC power supply that we could dial down the voltage to see if/when the unit acts up.  The only other thing I can imagine is to pull my unit off the pedalboard, take the back off, and photograph it so we can see if we all have the same ciruit board in common.  Maybe there's a distinctive chip on our boards that might be a clue.

I suspect the voltage though.  I've never had the unit fail out gigging, but I have had the problem a few times during rehearsal at my house.  I know the voltage at my house can vary.

Thanks,

Greg



Re: M13 Power Problem
by DavidBarrett on 2010-10-06 05:12:06

I should mention too that as we added more gear and used more power, the problems happened, the unstable tuning issues with the Moog actually became manageable once it was through the UPS as well. So agreed, it seems to be a voltage thing. Earlier in this thread one of the Line 6 guys mentioned that it hasn't happened with the M13 on a big stage, probably because the power is stable at those gigs because of the sophisticated gear/power conditioners they use.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by aaalp on 2010-10-06 10:57:54

For your information, people from Line6 mentioned that they experimented with bad electrical conditions i.e. low voltage, high voltage, etc. to try to make this on/off thing occur but it didn't happen. .Name of this problem is happened to be "power problem" but it seems it has nothing to do with power. It seems it is either faulty hardware, or software...



Re: M13 Power Problem
by soundchasm on 2010-10-06 16:26:54

David, I don't doubt for a minute that you're right about hardware, firmware, software.  I read every page in this thread when I found it, and the electrical thing is stuck in my memory, but I mainly remember them saying they can't make it hapen either.  I wish we had access to their voltage test just to see what they did.  I mean, at some undervolt condition the things has to stop working, right?  It'd be nice to know the range in any event.

I don't know enough about electronics/software to be able to speculate what would cause a power cycle as opposed to freezing up like a computer.  I've used the exact same patches with no editing for the last six months.

Thanks,

Greg



Re: M13 Power Problem
by ozbadman on 2010-10-06 19:03:18

Well aaalp I don't agree they we can definitively say "but it seems it has nothing to do with power",

Just because L6 couldn't reproduce it by trying various power conditions doesn't mean it isn't a design flaw. I have worked as a hardware and software Engineer in embedded systems for > 20 years and you can't always think of the odd situations these things end up in and therefore when there's a problem, you can't necessarily replicate the source of the problem without a really good example. I'm sure they tried everything they could think of but not being able to reproduce it doesn't mean it's not a design or build problem. It could be a certain batch of components they used, or some extraneous signals of the power supply line, or a power spike the software is doing something with, or all manner of things the software is doing. The point is, as external suppliers of data to L6, all we really know is that it happens on more than one unit and once it starts happening, it seems to happy a lot for awhile at least. Not a lot of information for them unfortunately and they do seem to have given up on looking into the problem for now.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by aaalp on 2010-10-08 01:12:51

Ozbadman, I am totally grateful for your opinion and since it is your profession I'll take your word without a doubt. What i said before is totally loud thinking and i didn't want to state my opinion as a fact, since i don't have authority to do that by any means. On the other hand, in the past i have gigged in places where electrical conditions were total joke with both analog and digital gear. There were times my amplifiers volume was dropping drastically due to low voltage but even those times i haven't witnessed any strange behavior on any other equipment. What i am saying is, if Boss or Zoom units work flawlessly in situations where lights are going down and volume on the amp is reducing drastically, and on the other hand M13 acts strange where everything else seems normal, then i'll suspect the thing is M13 itself and not the environment. Be it a software bug, hardware fault, failing power supply.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by phil_m on 2010-10-08 06:52:20

Well each piece of equipment has different tolerances when it comes to power quality, and the way a piece of equipment reacts to a condition like and undervoltage can be influenced by firmware or other components.  If Line 6 can't get this behavior to repeat with any of the units in their possession under different test conditions, I can see why they're having trouble offering a solution.  It's like shooting at a moving target.  My personal experience with the M13 has been that the LCD screen acted weird when I tried using an undersized power supply, but I didn't have power cycling.  There are other power conditions other than under or over-voltage that can cause issues with equipment sometimes, though.  There can be things like third or higher order harmonics cause by solid state switching power supplies feeding back into the AC line.  Perhaps there's a sensitivity issue with some component.  If that the case, I could see why it would be hard to repeat what's happening in the lab.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by DavidBarrett on 2010-10-08 09:12:00

Thanks for the input guys. It's worth mentioning that I did sound check with my M13, we put everything through the UPS and it acted up again. I did the show with the borrowed M13, quickly programmed it and it was fine. Still love the unit, I'll see about getting a replacement.



We should collect serial numbers
by soundchasm on 2010-10-08 23:40:33

Gents,

Perhaps we could take it upon ourselves to collect enough serial numbers to find out if there's a manufacturing range that our intermittant units fall into.  If it's a clear result, then that might point to hardware.  If it ranges from first date of manufacture to present, we've discovered nothing...

Might be worthy of a new thread, and maybe Line 6 could make it a sticky for their own data collection w/o obligating themselves to any liabilities.

But, it would be nice if the question were addressed of how I'm supposed to ultimately sell (I know it's a split infinity - flame away:-) a piece of gear that has this oddity in good conscience.

Thanks,

Greg



Re: We should collect serial numbers
by djb303 on 2010-10-13 15:49:22

has everyone given up on this or has it moved to another thread...the serial numbers is a good idea .. i dont have my one on hand at the moment but are there other numbers ...like quality control  (  like who signed off on these  )........it maybe one particular employee  not too good at his job.....were they made on a monday  ( everybody hungover from the weekend  )  or a friday  (  everybody rushing off for the weekend  ) ....i have worked in factories and this really happens....................my one did this at a gig not long after i bought it   was okay for for another few months  then i quit the band........it lay unused for months till last month when i started rehearsing with a new band........i was getting all sorts of fizzy sounds out of it and posted on here ...not to much advice beyond   " do a factory reset  "  which i eventually did after trying a few things     and yes you guessed right ...the on/off is back  same as everyone else the lights flash   but there is no one home............when it does come back on  the fizzy sounds are still there...............i am in the u.k. where we have laws that protect against inherent faults for up to 5 years and there seems to be enough on here for me to have a case against line6 for a pro rata refund or a replacement............does the lemon law in the states not cover you guys if there are enough of you  or is it only for cars....................anyhoo  thats my tuppence worth.........point me in the right direction if this has moved to another thread    SHAME on you line6...you guys are normally good at this ....but you are letting down a lot of guys here by your silence



Re: We should collect serial numbers
by phil_m on 2010-10-13 17:43:26

There's not really anything like a "lemon law" in the US for this sort of stuff.  Even the one for cars I believe is relatively hard to get enforced - actually those sorts of things are usually enforced by the states, not the federal government.

Anyway, I don't think Line 6 has given up.  I just think that sporadic problems that aren't easily diagnosed are simply very hard to troubleshoot.  It doesn't seem like these problems are that widespread, either, so that makes it even harder to diagnose.



Re: We should collect serial numbers
by djb303 on 2010-10-14 16:32:12

still think the serial number and q.a numbers might shed a little light

any of you young guys got the computer savvy to set up a subgroup????

am on vacation for 10 days    will have a look back when i get home

and if no response will try to set the ball rolling....its got to be worth a try

COME ON line 6.....get back involved     where are you renkin   apart from all over youtube at music shows

HELPPPP....



Re: M13 Power Problem
by the_mink on 2010-10-14 17:20:13

Add me to the list. Mine just started doing it after 2 years of hassle-free operation. How to proceed? Is Rich still on this, or someone else?

Extra info - no expression pedals connected, just MIDI. No low frequencies. Simply connected to Furman, guitar and amp. Power down, power up, 2 days in a row.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by FraKcture on 2010-10-21 11:37:14

Had my m13 for almost a year with no problems whatsoever... last night it started freaking out on me, the lights on the switches started to "dim" like a light bulb thats about to pop, tuner froze and then i had the shutdown thing several times (aprox. 6) in 45 min. now i have had it on for about an hour or 2 and its back to normal... 



Re: M13 Power Problem
by cletcher1 on 2010-10-26 09:41:20

Guess I should have done my homework before making the purchase.  Mine did it brand new right out of the box (already flashed with 2.01).  Just bought it from Sweetwater...I couldn't figure out what was going on.  I could just tilt the unit and it would freak out.  Then without warning its been working flawlessly, but that's only been a couple of times.  Now I'm freaked, but I guess with Sweetwater I get an extra year to monitor this. As I painfully read all 13 pages of this thread I was sure Line6 was going to provide an answer, they kept promising, but then magically dissappeared.  It's like he was told by his boss to ignore this issue.  Hope there's no hidden supprises lurking on my HD500....



Re: M13 Power Problem
by seitzandsoundz on 2010-11-08 18:39:10

Just bought an M13 yesterday. Worked fine last night when I got it home. Now I'm getting this power issue, and found this thread. I'm also getting some odd pixelation on the screens. Guess this is going back and I'll try a new one. Love the tones but I'm very very leery now. Not cool. What's the deal and why hasn't this been followed up on here?



Re: M13 Power Problem
by danpay on 2010-11-10 18:19:49

I had a similar problem back in march

http://line6.com/community/thread/31275

thepedal started working again so i thought it was a fluke.

here i am now, past my year warranty, and now i cant get my pedal to work at all.

here is a picture to help describe the problem

http://imgur.com/TfbX3.jpg

allthe lcd screens are blank green with no text.

the problem began again one night at a gig. i had everything set up and was plugging my guitar into the pedal and then the lcd screens turned green and the pedal wouldnt work.  it has been this way since.

i guess my only solutions are to find somone to repair it or to drop it all together

EDIT:  oh yea i forgot to mention that the light indicators on each pedal don't turn on at all.  the a,b, and c slots



Re: M13 Power Problem
by sbruce on 2010-11-12 10:57:05

My unit is about  year and 1/2 old.  It has sat on our church stage that time, rarely moved...the past few weeks, when I turn on the switch on the back it powers up then immediately powers down, or sometimes doesn't power at all.  I have tried a new power supply, not a bit of difference.  It has once or twice just shut down on it's own (luckily never during a set).  If I flip the power switch a few times, and then tap on the right corner, I can usually get it running.  I did take it home to make sure it wasn't a power issue @ the building, same thing happened.  Each Sunday I just say a prayer that it will boot and not die on my during church

Any advice what to do?  I live no where near a service center. I had been happy with the M13 up till this point...although I've yet to have a L6 product that lasted more than 2 years.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by jpdennis on 2010-11-12 18:20:33

DanPay,

I don't know if this will help but I have an idea.  Hold the looper control button down for several seconds to act as if you are going into setup mode.  Then, in the 4th FX LED window turn the right upper-most control knob back and forth.  If it is what I think, you may be lucky and the display contrast went weird.  If this does bring it back the lower right control for FX4 turns on and off the buttons when they are not active.  If you can now read the LED, you should be able to turn that knob to set it to DIM ON.

I hope it is this simple.  If not, I want to let everyone who has posted know that when I did have an initial problem I did not wait and immediately sent it in.  The Line 6 team was very accommodating and I made sure I got my warranty started for the new device as well.  Just because I have a momentary glitch, I have found that it doesn't necessarily mean it was momentary.  Hopefully anyone else readying this will contact Line 6 immediately in the future to get this resolved at the first sign of trouble, even if it was only once or twice at the first.

Dennis



Re: M13 Power Problem
by sbruce on 2010-11-15 13:20:33

Can anyone point me in the right direction to contact L6?  My M13 is over a year and 1/2 old; but just yesterday morning it took me 15 minutes to get it to start up and stay on.  After that it was good to go for our 3 hours of services, but I can't go on like this...any help is appreciated!

Thanks!

Steven



Re: M13 Power Problem
by LifeEcho21 on 2010-12-07 11:31:12

Did it stop doing it to you? Cause I've had mine since November of 2008 and it just started to do this last week.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by mattpoole on 2010-12-13 09:11:42

Hi,

Just  thought I'd add that I am experiencing this problem also, having bought  the unit around 2 years ago.

I have gigs coming up and I can't risk gear failures, so will have to leave the M13 at home.

Happy Xmas!



Re: M13 Power Problem
by DavidBarrett on 2010-12-13 09:34:46

Hi guys, forgive me if I've mentioned something that has been covered, but I'll tell you what seems to have worked for me so far.

2 months ago, I experienced the problems mentioned int his thread. I restored the M13 to factory presets, and then proceeded to program all 12 scenes with my usual array of sounds and titles. When I plugged it in, same this happened within an hour or so. I then thought that perhaps I was giving the M13 too many commands by programming it to it's full capacity. I then restored it to factory presets a second time but used only one scene, and since then, I have not had a problem. Could it be the M13 has a "memory issue" in that it starts to freak out after too many modifications to presets?

Anyway so far so good, Happy Holidays!



Re: M13 Power Problem
by mattpoole on 2010-12-16 03:15:22

Out of the blue, I got a reply from Line 6! Hurrah!

"Rich has been working on finding a fix for this, though as you know with  it being such few numbers it has been hard to recreate. They are  hopeful that they do have a fix and just keep an eye on the forum, Rich  will be announcing when it's available. It will be 2.02 download."

So you know as much as I do - they're working on it.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by seitzandsoundz on 2010-12-18 17:18:25

I returned mine before my 30 days was up. Love the tones, but like I said before...it doesn't sit well with me. I don't want to always be wondering "Is this going to work as it should when I need it to?"  That shouldn't have to be in the back of your mind while you're playing.  Here's the deal...I've got gear that's 35 years old, still works fine and always has.  I've owned a lot of Line 6 gear going all the way back to the original AxSys and AxSys2 amps (how many of you here remember those?) I've given Line 6 stuff so many chances and its all glitched out and let me down at some point and then become worthless and disposable. I'm tired of it and I'm not getting suckered by it anymore.  I've got some Boss pedals from 1981, never let me down. I even bought them beat up and 2nd hand in the 90's...still working fine. That's 30 years those pedals have been working.  How many perfectly working pieces of Line 6 gear from today do you think you'll see in 30 years?  Very very little if any at all.  Here we've got the M13, a $500 piece of gear, and now its a case of "working on a fix". Complete BS.  Sorry Line 6 but I'm done. I've given chance after chance and really wanted to like your gear but at the end of the day its all disposable, unreliable, "Made In China" crap.  Goodbye



Re: M13 Power Problem
by djb303 on 2010-12-18 18:01:49

how come ....you are the lucky one .....why hasn't renkin or anyone else posted.....can you cut and paste your PERSONAL reply for the rest of us....................this is 14 pages long now   without a reply       do you have a secret in         or am i being cynical....................i paid £500 almost for this  and cant use it ....................i am gigging again  after a few months off      but everything still sounds fizzy and it cuts out ................so i cant use it...........i have reset .....updated      reset  again    updated again......................i am getting sick of this ......................there has to be a solution or a refund .........................to get back to the point ..............................do you have any ideas as to why you got a reply      when the rest of us didn't ...........did you put anything   in your email that the rest of us haven't thought of...................cheers   dave



Re: M13 Power Problem
by djb303 on 2010-12-18 18:12:50

sorry to rant  guys    but the first post on this thread after   looking back     was on the 26th of march 2009

last post by LINE6.......APRIL 2010..............its now DEC 2010      grease up your arse and bend over



Re: M13 Power Problem
by seitzandsoundz on 2010-12-18 20:37:44

They've moved on to their next big things...the HD stuff. Once they release a product, sell enough of them for a year or so, they move on to something else. Eventually that old product breaks and/or they no longer support it, and you should buy their next latest and greatest thing. Hell, they're actually kinda going BACKWARDS now with the POD HD units...only 16 amp models now instead of all those that were in the X3 (which was supposed to be the greatest beat all end all POD when it was released)  Basically its "We've made something that sounds great, better than before, but we're giving even less of it"  Fact is Line 6 isn't an effects processor company, nor an amp company. They're a freakin' software company. They aren't in to making durable long lasting goods. I don't know what hurts more after you buy their products...your arse or your wallet. What's funny is some of my old pedals (the ones Line 6 models) are worth 2 - 3 times more than what they sold for new 20 - 30 years ago...and all still work!

When I returned my glitchy M13 to the store and told them why I was returning it they didn't even ask anymore questions. The guy just nodded and said "Yeah, their stuff sounds cool, but I almost don't like selling it because I know how many of them are going to come back" Then he proceeded to tell me how they HD Pods flew off the shelves when they first came in....then how many of them were returned because they were glitchy.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by the_stonesteels on 2010-12-19 08:33:01

If they're looking for a Dead M13, Mine is.

2 weeks already. The flickering, intermittent, random, on/off problem started 2 months ago. I don't think I need to describe what happens cause it's been stated in the previous 14 pages of this topic in slightly varying context.

It's the 1st Line 6 product I've had a problem with in terms of power. I'm relying on my HD500 right for our recording. The only thing I'm scared about is, if this happened to my M13, which at one point was the focal selling point of Line 6... Would there be a possibility it might happen yet again to future products??? Besides the 2.02 update that's being done so far, i havn't seen an explanation. I've PM'd Rich too hoping he might be interested in a 2 week dead M13.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by rodzimguitar68 on 2010-12-22 20:42:21

Bought my M13 in March 2010.  Started noticing this intermittant power on off thing about 2-3 weeks ago.  I was worried that I had kinked the power supply cord by coiling it up wrong.  So, 2 days ago, I purchased a new power supply for $27.  Since then, the unit has continued to cycle on/off while I'm playing.  I have to play in front of 300 people on Christmas Eve.  I came home from rehearsal tonight and it occured to me that I should check the Line6 website to see if there was a bulletin or instructions on how to fix this.  I found this 14 page thread spanning 2 years.  No solutions.  I wished I would've read this BEFORE I purchased the unit in March.  I called your offices but they are closed for the holidays.  I need to know how to get a new unit or get this resolved.  I need reliability.  I have other processors, such as a KORG A-1 unit that I have owned for 20 years, and it still works, but obviously the M13 sounds better with the newer technology.  Please help.  I have also owned an X3 Live and purchased an HD500 about a month ago (and sold the X3Live).  I suppose the HD could do everything the M13 does, but I enjoy the flexibility of staying in one patch on the HD with it's particular effects, and adding any extra things not contained within that patch, from the M13 unit. I can't afford to have the M13 jumping in and out of the signal chain during performance.

Thanks



Re: M13 Power Problem
by LifeEcho21 on 2010-12-22 21:56:27

I had the same problem about three weeks ago. I've had my M13 since Nov 2008. I talked to one of the guys from line 6 and he sent me a update 2.02 for it. I can send it to you if you want it. Just give me your email. I updated my pedal about a week ago and have had two practices with it and it hasn't done it. Im not saying its going to work but its worth a try. Only other problem is if you have the Midi to usb cable. If you do its pretty east to update. Ive done it twice already.  hit me up if you want the update,



Re: M13 Power Problem
by GreggMarkus on 2010-12-23 06:06:07

Are you kidding??  Of course, we want the 2.02 patch!

I'm PM-ing you as well. I wonder why it's not listed here ---> http://line6.com/software/index.html

Iguess they must be using you as a beta tester? I got pretty excited when I saw someone mentioned the 2.02 was in the works.

I haven't updated yet, does it really need to be "USB" based MIDI? Or will my Firewire interface handle the update tast? I guess I'll search the forum as I'm sure this has been asked before.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by rodzimguitar68 on 2010-12-23 06:44:12

Thanks for the offer.  I just PM'd you my email address.  Thank you so much!!!  I hope it works, but I feel better knowing that I can take a little action towards a solution, as opposed to the sinking feeling I felt last night when I called Line6 and the recording said they were closed due to the holidays.

I just got off the phone with a customer of ours that needs a price on a huge project by next week, and we are shutting down for the holidays and wouldn't be staffed enough to meet her deadline, so I know how she feels....



Re: M13 Power Problem
by rodzimguitar68 on 2010-12-23 18:19:06

I just spent 3 hours trying to update to the 2.02 software.

I am MIDI Sys Ex DUMB.  I admit it.  The process isn't that difficult - it is just ME.

The update kept timing out and giving me an error.  I tried at least 12-15 attempts and the file wouldn't install.  Many times, the process took 10-15 minutes and I became convinced it would be a successful attempt, only for it to fail again.  I didn't know if it was the file or my settings in MIDI OX.  Eventually, the unit locked up and wouldn't escape out of software update mode, and go back into play mode.  So I had effectively converted my intermittently broken unit to a fully broken one!

Since it was fully locked up, and since I was starting to suspect the new update file was corrupt or incomplete in some way, I decided to attempt to reinstall the 2.01 update from the Line6 server.  It is the software version I was already running.  I could not get it to fully install either.  I was encouraged, because that meant the 2.02 software might be okay, but my settings were wrong in MIDI OX.

I uninstalled, downloaded a new copy, and reinstalled the MIDI OX software again and carefully followed the steps for setting it up.  The install of the 2.02 still did not work.  Finally, I got a suggestion to change the delay from 60ms to 80ms in the F7 setting box.  After I did this, the software installed perfectly.

I then reinstalled my saved scenes which I had captured as the first step in this lengthy process tonight.

I now have the 2.02 software on my M13.  I have all my settings and scenes.  What I do not yet know is, if the power on/off randomness will be a thing of the past?  I have until March before my warranty expires, so time will tell.

By the way, I thought it was comical that the unit was turning itself off and on, while I was preparing to go on this quest tonight, while I was sitting in front of it, reading the instructions for backing up a scene....cute.

Thanks again to the guys on the thread for getting me the update while Line6 is in "holiday shut down mode."

www.youtube.com/rodzimguitar68



Re: M13 Power Problem
by LifeEcho21 on 2010-12-23 20:37:40

Awesome!!



Re: M13 Power Problem
by mitchewr123 on 2011-01-25 19:31:21

Hi all,

     My M13, which I've had for 3-4 years or so has just now started to power on and off, just like all yall.  I have never ever updated the firm ware, so I'm still runnin on the original factory FW.   Just thought I'd add mine to the list and hopefully bring some of the line 6 employees back to this thread (I just read all 14 pages).  And this is the first time I've ever had mine do this.  I was just playing my guitar, and not even using any of the effects from the M13.  I was bypassing them all and using my Marshall Jackhammer overdrive pedal and suddenly it started to shut off and turn back on. 

Hey Line 6.............how about a little help here!!



Re: M13 Power Problem
by rodzimguitar68 on 2011-01-25 20:05:36

I haven't had this erradic power issue since the update, and I've used my unit in personal practice, band rehearsal, and performances since then.  So, I've had this thing in use for 30 hours without a hiccup.  And when the troubles began 40 days ago, I couldn't go for 30 minutes without it shutting itself on and off a couple of times.  Even the night I was trying to back up my scenes and install the software upgrade, it was shutting off and on by itself.

If you private message me and give me your email address, I can email the latest software to you.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by DeeDub1962 on 2011-01-25 20:16:47

I posted in this thread just about a year ago with the cycling on/off problem. It hadn't happened in a year, but a couple of gigs ago, it started it again. Did it three times withing an hour, then fine... and it's been fine since.

Can ANYONE from Line 6 PLEASE give us any new info? Granted, it's very sporadic.. but this is a deal breaker. I gig every weekend and need something I don't have to worry about. I'm worried again.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by rodzimguitar68 on 2011-01-26 06:20:06

DeeDub1962 - if you upgrade to the 2.02 software, it will likely fix your power cycling issue.  it worked for me.

Private message me and give me your real email address and I will send the file to you.

www.myspace.com/rodneyzimmerman68

www.youtube.com/rodzimguitar68



Re: M13 Power Problem
by japes on 2011-01-26 18:33:20

Version 2.04 released tonight.

Japes



Re: M13 Power Problem
by rodzimguitar68 on 2011-01-26 19:01:58

Doh!!!

Time to buy my own MIDI/USB cable.  I'm wearing out my friendships with borrowing them!

Thanks for the tip.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2011-01-27 02:27:40

seitzandsoundz wrote:

I returned mine before my 30 days was up. Love the tones, but like I said before...it doesn't sit well with me. I don't want to always be wondering "Is this going to work as it should when I need it to?"  That shouldn't have to be in the back of your mind while you're playing.  Here's the deal...I've got gear that's 35 years old, still works fine and always has.  I've owned a lot of Line 6 gear going all the way back to the original AxSys and AxSys2 amps (how many of you here remember those?) I've given Line 6 stuff so many chances and its all glitched out and let me down at some point and then become worthless and disposable. I'm tired of it and I'm not getting suckered by it anymore.  I've got some Boss pedals from 1981, never let me down. I even bought them beat up and 2nd hand in the 90's...still working fine. That's 30 years those pedals have been working.  How many perfectly working pieces of Line 6 gear from today do you think you'll see in 30 years?  Very very little if any at all.  Here we've got the M13, a $500 piece of gear, and now its a case of "working on a fix". Complete BS.  Sorry Line 6 but I'm done. I've given chance after chance and really wanted to like your gear but at the end of the day its all disposable, unreliable, "Made In China" crap.  Goodbye

First, on the subject of is it going to work when I need it to, Brad Paisley, Billy Corgan, Trent Reznor, Tim Pierce and many others don't have to ask that, so you could just trust that you didn't get one of the troubled units. If you really think the one you returned was defective, I would start playing the lottery and hit Vegas.

You post makes no sense. It would be like saying, I have a watch that has worked perfectly since 1981 and it has never let me down. So my $500 Droid better never fail. How could an analog watch be compared to a smartphone? It can't and a Boss stompbox can't be compared to a multi effects unit with a computer in it. I have a tube screamer original that kills, so I know what you are saying. Also, are you saying that Boss pedals have never failed for anyone anywhere? Here is a thread at TalkBass about the reliability of switches on Boss pedals. http://www.talkbass.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-388629.html%22%22%5Dhttp://www.talkbass.com/forum/archive/inde...p/t-579834.html">http://www.talkbass.com/forum/archive/inde...p/t-579834.html">http://www.talkbass.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-388629.html%22%22%5Dhttp://www.talkbass.com/forum/archive/inde...p/t-579834.htmlI am not posting this thread to talk bad about Boss, I am just saying, all products have a certain amout of failures and returns, that is why companies all strive to have as low of a return rate as possible. ALL COMPANIES.

Do you still own the HD500 you registered with us?



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2011-01-27 03:00:23

seitzandsoundz wrote:

They've moved on to their next big things...the HD stuff. Once they release a product, sell enough of them for a year or so, they move on to something else. Eventually that old product breaks and/or they no longer support it, and you should buy their next latest and greatest thing. Hell, they're actually kinda going BACKWARDS now with the POD HD units...only 16 amp models now instead of all those that were in the X3 (which was supposed to be the greatest beat all end all POD when it was released)  Basically its "We've made something that sounds great, better than before, but we're giving even less of it"  Fact is Line 6 isn't an effects processor company, nor an amp company. They're a freakin' software company. They aren't in to making durable long lasting goods. I don't know what hurts more after you buy their products...your arse or your wallet. What's funny is some of my old pedals (the ones Line 6 models) are worth 2 - 3 times more than what they sold for new 20 - 30 years ago...and all still work!

When I returned my glitchy M13 to the store and told them why I was returning it they didn't even ask anymore questions. The guy just nodded and said "Yeah, their stuff sounds cool, but I almost don't like selling it because I know how many of them are going to come back" Then he proceeded to tell me how they HD Pods flew off the shelves when they first came in....then how many of them were returned because they were glitchy.

I don't even know what to do with this post. Do you think it is ok to come in here and post stuff like this?

We didn't move on to next big things. M13 is one of our current big things, ask Brad Paisley. Player for the M13 and POD HD are completely different players.

HD is not a step backwards, it is a giant leap forward and that is why we are crushing our competitors now. Do you assume that we are stopping with the 16 HD amp models? I don't think many people would assume that. Also, the HD has M13 level effects. That is a first for the POD series.

We are a leader in effects processors. HD500 is the number one selling processor by a mile. We are an amp company, we are the number one amp company with the target fully on our back. And yes, because of our software, we are killing the competition. Again, don't compare an analog pedal that does one thing (that has had failures) to a digital piece of gear that does multiple things. If you want to play your pedal and tube amp, that is awesome. We love players like that.

I can tell you that many haven't been returned because they were glitchy. That is simply not true. Not sure why you would post that last paragraph in general.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2011-01-27 03:13:28

Hey guys,

We released 2.04 update to the public today.

We released 2.02 a bit ago with a possible power problem fix and a fix to the feedback on the echo platter model. Somehow the echo platter fix didn't make it in and we recompiled it, which meant a couple more weeks of testing to be sure that it was ready to go.

So, go get 2.04.

The reason I say possible fix is that we are pretty sure that it will be a fix. When developing the POD HD500 we ran into a bug that alerted us to an issue and we fixed it and we think that may be related to this issue on M13. Well, we can't reproduce the power problem, as you guys know, on the M13. It seems to be random. So what I would LOVE is for you guys to update your units to 2.04 and use them. PLEASE report back here if you update and have this same problem. I emailed a couple guys 2.02 to try and it seems to work.

I am so so hoping that this is the fix. You guys letting me know what happens with yours will be my best gauge to knowing if this is going to work. Again, because the problem is so weird and random in the first place.

Thank you guys for your patience. I haven't forgotten about you at all. I am now a full time customer advocate for Line 6 and loving my job and it all started when I jumped into these M13 forums and started talking to you guys. So I will not forget about you. Believe me, I am pushing for all the things we have talked about in the past.

Peace,

Rich



Re: M13 Power Problem
by Danjuan on 2011-01-27 03:19:01

So instead of actually fixing the problem, your solution is to come on here and offensively put down and call out the people who bought the defective product.  Great strategy.

I haven't used my M13 since it started the power cycling BS.  To be honest I'm amazed that Line 6 are so happy to put out a defective product and expect paying customers to roll the dice on whether it will function properly or not.  But then again, a handfull of guys are apparently using them live.  I guess they must all be good then!  lol.

This is not the first time a company has put out a product, realised that it is defective or poorly designed once tens of thousands have been sold, then refused to acknowledge their mistake.

You can berate your customers all you want, but it doesn't make the product any more reliable.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by litesnsirens on 2011-01-27 07:29:36

First of all, I don't know that I would use the word berate, he is definitely addressing the post.  Secondly I don't know that I would put more emphasis on the poster falling into the customer category or troll category.  He didn't even say he had a defective but subsequently went on to make a bunch of false claims.  Kind of like what you're doing here, Rich didn't call out or offensively put down anyone.  Definitely not all the people with a defective unit, he was addressing specific posts (hint* you can tell by the fact that he quoted the post he was addressing).  Have you even followed this thread, the problem is acknowledged, they are trying to fix it, in fact it may be fixed in 2.04 upgrade that was just released.  Maybe English isn't your first language but Rich isn't expecting anyone to roll the dice, he is saying if your unit is working properly go ahead and use it because in comparison to the number of units sold, the number or reported issues is so minimal that the chance of getting one is about the same odds as winning the lottery.  If every person that has bought an M13 was on this forum Line 6 would be in deep trouble, that wouldn't be nearly enough sales to maintain the company.  People post on here if they have a problem or a question or just want to learn more about their gear from fellow users.  I would venture to say that those of us on the forum make up a very small fraction of Line 6 gear owners.  Now, I can understand someone with one of the defective units being upset and frustrated, but that doesn't give them license to make false claims, and I think Rich has every right to ask someone making false claims to back up what they are saying, or to challenge it by supplying proof to the contrary.  I'm sorry to post this but I read this kind of BS all the time and it just gets under my skin, I'm all for a good debate or discussion but to me that means the ideas or comments you put forward are based in fact and not just pulled out of thin air and presented as fact.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by the_mink on 2011-01-27 11:07:09

Hey. I have an idea. Why don't we wait and see if this update does the trick, and then if it does, say 'Thanks'?

Every time people get over-excited on an internet forum, I want to send them a Dwight Schrute bobblehead.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by cdoerman on 2011-01-27 11:27:25

the_mink wrote:

Every time people get over-excited on an internet forum, I want to send them a Dwight Schrute bobblehead.

I have been quiet on this issue for a while as I have not experienced it on my replacement M13. However, now that I see there is a new incentive to get over-excited, let me paraphrase Kayne West by saying "Line 6 doesn't care about M13 power problem people." Also, I hate everyone on every forum (you know what you did).

Now, who do I need to send my mailing address to in order to receive my Dwight Schrute bobblehead? Thanks in advance!



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2011-01-27 11:29:02

Since this is your first post, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt. I have posted extensively about this issue here or at TGP/HC/etc. I am not putting my customers down at all. I can look up information about posters that I would never post or share here in a public forum. So when the post doesn't match what I know to be fact, I start to wonder about the post. It is so hard to hear attitude and/or emotion on internet posts. I am not at all working these guys over, just trying to not let an untrue post stand. I don't hide or post false statements. I am a customer advocate. I am here for the customer, ask around and you will know this is true.

It is hard for me to explain 2 years of searching and work in a single post, so I hope that you have read the history so that you know the background info.

If you go back in this thread, you will see that we acknowledged the problem. I also explained that the problem is only found on a very small amount of units. One of these is my own M13 I use all the time. It did the power cycling to me once in the middle of the night with nothing hooked up to it and never again 3 years ago. Because I saw it for myself, I knew right away what guys were explaining here and on other forums. We have replaced many units for guys. Did you call customer service? They would have helped you out because it is a known issue.

There are way more than a handful of M13s out there. I would look at this thread for myself and come to the conclusion that for a product that has been out for 3 1/2 years that has sold tens of thousands there would be way more than 14 pages of a few dozen guys that have this issue if it were on all of them.

Also, if you would like, please email me at richrenken@line6.com. I will personally help you or any guy with this particular bug.

I am sorry that you were one of the few that had this issue.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2011-01-27 11:32:49

the_mink wrote:

Hey. I have an idea. Why don't we wait and see if this update does the trick, and then if it does, say 'Thanks'?

Every time people get over-excited on an internet forum, I want to send them a Dwight Schrute bobblehead.

Nice!! I agree.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by jpdennis on 2011-01-27 16:28:47

Rich,

I have excellent customer service with my M13.  The problems I did have were resolved last year with the new replacement.  I updated to v2.01 and have yet to find any problems.  Can I assume that upgrading to v2.04 will just make my unit even better with the "platter" fix.  Did this include my request for being able to use the tuner on both left & right?  No big deal.  I was just wondering.  Also, any insight into the other enhancements?  If not I will be O.K. - I was just wondering.

If you give me the go ahead I will update, monitor this, and let you know the outcome over time if any errors arise.

I thought I would share that I got a rack gator case to carry this around in and modified some foam to make sure all space is padded inside the case.  I even use foam padding to protect the power unit when placed into the case.  Also, after several months of use the foot buttons seemed to have smoothed out alot.  No scratchy feel to the mechanics of them or anything.

Dennis



Re: M13 Power Problem
by robiepogi on 2011-01-27 17:47:23

Hey Rich! First of all, thanks for getting back to us! Now, i wanted to ask you something about the relays inside the m13.

im in no way an electronics expert but i had something similar to this problem. I dont know how many of people here record

with protools, but they have this interface called the digi 002. Had it for years and it was only last year that i started hearing a relay

go on and off, and it would interrupt my recording process. I did my research and found out that the connection between the circuit board and the ribbon cable was creating a weird oxidation. I dont remember very well, but they said that the connection on the board was gold plated and the terminals on the ribbon cable was just your normal metal for electronic components and made this weird oxidation when mixed together. So long story short, digidesign released a replacement cable, but since i had mine for years I had no luck with that replacement part. one of the guys in the forum told me that he cleaned the connection with deOxit, which i did too. My unit is now working again flawlessly.

Just wanted to present that question to you so you guys could rule it out. anything to help!

thanks again!



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2011-01-27 22:33:11

jpdennis wrote:

Rich,

I have excellent customer service with my M13.  The problems I did have were resolved last year with the new replacement.  I updated to v2.01 and have yet to find any problems.  Can I assume that upgrading to v2.04 will just make my unit even better with the "platter" fix.  Did this include my request for being able to use the tuner on both left & right?  No big deal.  I was just wondering.  Also, any insight into the other enhancements?  If not I will be O.K. - I was just wondering.

If you give me the go ahead I will update, monitor this, and let you know the outcome over time if any errors arise.

I thought I would share that I got a rack gator case to carry this around in and modified some foam to make sure all space is padded inside the case.  I even use foam padding to protect the power unit when placed into the case.  Also, after several months of use the foot buttons seemed to have smoothed out alot.  No scratchy feel to the mechanics of them or anything.

Dennis

There is just the Platter fix and the fix that we did to the POD HDs. I would love for you to update to 2.04 and let me know how it goes. Email me at richrenken@line6.comwith anything you find. Any of you guys can email me anytime.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by cis689 on 2011-01-31 07:20:07

I ran the 2.04 update a couple days ago and I still seem to have the issues with the bleed over FX 3 display. As far as the power cycle issue, after I reset the firmware shortly after my original post it seemed to clear up (knock on wood).



Re: M13 Power Problem
by jpdennis on 2011-01-31 12:12:16

Rich,

Well, I upgraded the firmware. It went well and "forced" me to backup my
custom scenes. You think I would have done that sooner (darn guitar
players) :-)

Anyway, everything went well. A three of things that I immediately
discovered;

1) When I loaded a complete folder back into the M13 and was on folder 1
scene 1 the folder for folder 1 came back except the default scene 1 that
comes with the M13 (can't remember it off the top of my head since I am at
work right now). So I moved to folder 2 then reloaded my backup folder 1
and my custom folder 1 had all my custom scenes loaded like before. The
instructions (unless I miss read) said that when I load a folder it will go
to the folder it was backed up from and will load regardless of whether you
are in that folder or not. Just thought you might want to know.

2) Upon restoring folder 1 to folder 1 as above AND several individual
scenes into the M13 in other folders on a scene by scene basis the manual
save in setup changed to autosave. I noticed that when I went to do
something else in a different scene and when I came back to the last one
there were two different effects placed in that scene I came back to. I
checked each scene in each folder and all the scenes were set that way. So
I went to just the folder 1 scene 1 then into setup to change the feature to
manual save and all the scenes captured that setting without having to go to
each individual one to make that change - checked one by one to make sure.
I can't remember if that is the nature of the M13, but...

3) The process of using DSP bypass and true bypass used to give me a little
60 cycle hum in DSP (not a lot but noticeable). I use a Monster 3500 power
unit and Beringer hum eliminators to compensate and make sure I have no
ground loops. Not a real big thing. However, I tested this without the
Beringer units as well and now there is very very very little distinction
when using DSP versus True Bypass - a very very very great thing.

[NOTE: this last paragraph is just to let you know my thinking and my
process - it is not a problem but I felt the more information for you the
better]

I have to say it seemed that all the FX levels seemed more consistent (a
very good thing) when I used it Sunday & there was better definition as well
to each FX model. Also, I used my Mesa Mark III for the test as well as on
stage Sunday. For the .50 Caliber (EL84 model) I use a Boss 7 band EQ to
attinuate the effects loop. I am not too sure if that is necessary but
I find that the filters on the M13 seem to make my V2 12AX7 a little
microphonic when I split the FXs using the 4CM on the .50 Cal. I have A-B'd
using many different 12AX7 tubes in V2 (I usually keep about 15 new 12AX7
tubes on hand - yea I know - once again "darn paranoid guitarist"). The
Mesa Heartbreaker has its own effects circuit unlike the .50 Cal and Mark
III (though I don't have to use the EQ in the Mark III or the HB since they
do not exhibit that situation). I haven't had a chance to use the other 2
amps yet but I will let you know if the v2.04 clears up the .50 Cal and if
there are any noticeable improvements to the Heartbreaker though the
Heartbreaker has never given me any grief. An interesting thing to me is
that I also have an old Acoustic 165 (the Mesa Mark I rip-off lawsuit amp).
The M13 has always worked very well with it even without any power
protection. I will try the M13 out with that amp as well when I have time.
My Fender 75 (12" speaker model) doesn't lend itself to using the M13 so I
don't know if I will ever try it on that amp but it would be a sweet amp to
model just to see since it sounds great with Fender Strats using the factory
pedal that came with it way back when.

Thanks for all the help with this. I don't think some people realize the
detailed and time consuming tasks necessary to identify and correct
situations within electronic devices. In my world everyone wants just "2
minutes of my time". Multiply that time the number of people, the number of
other projects I have going on, and the day to day processes I have to
monitor & deal with. Trust me - I do feel your pain. Still, it great to
know that you and your company never shelved this project. I equate this to
when my family members pray for something and not get an answer for days or
years and then all of a sudden BAMM it happens. While it can be frustrating
to wait I find it is usually well worth it.

Your friend

Dennis



Re: M13 Power Problem
by frankencat on 2011-02-04 09:52:31

I just experienced this power cycling issue last night for the first time. I have been using my M13 in church for over a year with no problems but last night before rehearsal it started doing it - click, click turning on and off by itself. I managed to get it to stay up and did the rehearsal but now I am kind of suspect about how reliable it will be going forward. I have not changed anything, it just started happening. I am running the 2.0 firmware. Any help is appreciated. Rich you can reach me here or over at TGP (same handle). Thanks -Frank



Re: M13 Power Problem
by japes on 2011-02-04 12:21:31

Update 2.04 available in "downloads" appears to fix this problem. You will need a midi-usb connector such as the Midisport Uno and an interface program like Midi-Ox. Follow the instructions closely. Especially observe "midi out" verses "connect to midi out" on your cables.

-japes-



Re: M13 Power Problem
by swickpro on 2011-02-05 08:31:04

Count me in as a victim.  Halfway through our set and in the middle of a song last weekend (2-5-11) poof!  The unit cycled on and off.  The weird thing is that it happened as I hit a programed Phase FX button in slot 2.  The effect turned pink for a moment and did a wild octaver-type effect to the sound before going dark (much to the amusement of the audience).  Came back on a couple seconds later and everything was normal again.  No more problems for the rest of the set or recent rehearsals.  I did update this week to 2.04 firmware and no issues since then.  As mentioned above maybe that's the fix.  I've had external hi-A.C.-draw pedals do the same power-cycling thing before when power was unstable or spiked.  Perhaps that has something to do with it?  A little disturbing.  Heading out today for a weekender gig.  Hopefully I won't be reporting back.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by albertojgg on 2011-03-26 22:23:35

Hello everybody, any news about the power cycle problem since the new update version?? I see no coments since almost 1 month in this threat. Did the update fixed the problem?? Hellooooo



Re: M13 Power Problem
by LifeEcho21 on 2011-03-26 23:24:05

Since I've updated mine about three months ago it hasn't had the problem since. I guess it worked.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by albertojgg on 2011-03-27 09:42:56

Hello Lifecho is really nice to know that. 3 months is a pretty long time without the problem. Anybody else?



Re: M13 Power Problem
by japes on 2011-03-27 10:18:45

This is going to sound silly., not only have I not had a power issue since I updated, but I'm not having "ground loop" hum since the upgrade. My unit somehow sounds cleaner! Seriously!!!

-japes-



Re: M13 Power Problem
by rodzimguitar68 on 2011-03-27 11:06:38

I updated to 2.02 over the Christmas/NewYear's break, which I don't think was ever released to the public.  I think it fixed the power issue.

Then I updated to 2.04 when it became available, and it has worked in 20-30 live situations and as many rehearsals, logging 100 hours or more, without fail.  Come to think of it, I also have not heard from my Mother-in-Law in awhile, either.....THANKS LINE6!!!!!

Just kidding...Love ya Mom!

;)



Re: M13 Power Problem
by swickpro on 2011-03-27 15:00:37

All good so far.  Only a couple of big uses since upgrading to 2.04, but everything seems stable. Of course I used the M13 for a solid year before having the issue in the first place so we'll see...



Re: M13 Power Problem
by jpdennis on 2011-03-27 19:21:25

I updated for the filter issue.  I have not had any power issues to date.  I use the 4CM.  The levels seem better as well.  I do not get drastic volume boosts when placing several of the filters at post effects loop like I did before.  Also, I have noticed a cleaner signal as well.  I used to have to use humm eliminators at the amp effects loop as well as usimg my Monster 3500 power conditioner.  I no longer have to do that - great.  In fact using the HD400s I now pick up local stations if I try to use them - weird.

Since I have had the M13 I have also had the Monster 3500 and 3 HD400s (yep I am that way).  Anyway, I have only used it in my home music room using the same wall outlet and my Church using the same wall outlet there as well.  Both buildings are under 6 years old and my home was built as a model home then lived in by some house flippers for 65 days over the course of 2 years until I purchased it 3 years ago.  At home I log about 10 - 15 hours a week every week.  At Church I log 4 hours every Sunday.  This has been consistant since I have had the unit Feb 1, 2010.  I use the M13 with all my amps on a rotational basis - Mesa .50 Caliber [not the plus], Mesa Heartbreaker v2 [black face not green face], Mesa Boogie Mark III no stripe/no dot [very early version with some Mark IIC+ parts, and an Acoustic 165 [yes, an honest to goodness Mesa Mark I lawsuit amp - I used to have the Mitchell Pro 100 Mark I lawsuit amp as well].  All of these are combos.

Just thought I would set some foundational information.

Dennis



Re: M13 Power Problem
by willrivaldo on 2011-04-08 11:07:58

I have recently had this same problem that everyone else is experiencing. I updated the firmware today and it's still doing it.

The timing couldn;t have been worse as I have to record tomorrow and I can't afford for it to cut out on me

Please help, thanks



Re: M13 Power Problem
by swickpro on 2011-04-11 07:49:17

So you've updated your M13 to v2.04 and you're getting regular power drops?  Please update us on how it's going.  This is the first negative report I've seen since the update came out.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by rodzimguitar68 on 2011-04-11 08:46:51

willrivaldo - just to confirm, when you hold down the tap button, and go into tuner mode - the display in FX2 tells you you are running software 2.04?

And your unit is still power cycling and clicking?

Hmmmmm........



Re: M13 Power Problem
by xxxcactusrobxxx on 2011-05-01 18:18:00

what kind of issues



Re: M13 Power Problem
by willrivaldo on 2011-05-02 11:06:47

Hi, sorry for not getting back you sooner.

Yes I am now on version 2.04 and my M13 powers off and on but it seems it mostly does it when I engage effect "1B/undo".

Often when I step on it, it doesn't turn the chosen effect on or off and thats when the poweroff/on occurrs.

Another time it happened was when I setup a new scene and engaged 4 sets of 'dual phaser' effects at the same time (why the hell not, that's the beauty of this pedal!)

Previously it has had no problem with 4 delays/time-based FX on at the same time e.g. the 'DL-mania' scene

It would seem the problem is with the switch 1B/undo. Is there anything I can do about this, can I get it repaired?

I live in London and I love this pedal & Line6 so it is a real shame that it has gone faulty

thanks



Re: M13 Power Problem
by Line6Hugo on 2011-05-02 14:09:26

Will,

Does the problem occur in different locations outside where you regularly use the M13?  How are you powering the M13?  Please make sure that you are using the PX-2 power supply that it came with.  Do you have a lot of other electronic devices connected to the same power circuit?  Please remove them and try the M13 on it's own with an amp and guitar.

If you are experiencing the power cycling issue after updateing/re-installing the flash memory up to the latest 2.04 update, I would suggest taking it to an authorized service center to see if there is a hardware problem with the unit that may be causing this:

http://line6.com/service_centers/

Regards,

Line6Hugo



Re: M13 Power Problem
by jarredstein on 2011-05-06 20:49:59

I just got an M13 about a week ago. It started power cycling after an hour or two of usage. I upgraded to the latest firmware (2.04), and still the problem persists. Yesterday at band practice the pedal just shut down completely. I have tried different adapters and wall plugs, and the problem still persists. Sometimes it happens when I press a switch, sometimes it happens when I'm not doing anything).

I really hope this problem is fixed.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by Line6Hugo on 2011-05-13 16:42:27

@jarredstein,

Was this unit purchased new or used?  Do you get this problem in any location that you use it?  Please make sure that you are using the PX-2 power supply that comes with the M13.  Also, ensure that there is plenty of power available and that you are not plugging into an overloaded circuit.

If you have tried re-installing the flash memory and get this problem no matter what you try, there may be a hardware problem with the unit that would require servicing.  I would then recommend taking it to an authorized service center:

http://line6.com/service_centers/

Regards,

Line6Hugo



Re: M13 Power Problem
by m13paul84 on 2011-06-06 02:11:16

Hello,

I'm in similar situation as jarredstein. Before patch 2.04 I had been strugling with power cycling issue very often. Now I'm on 2.04 version (maybe 1 month) and I thought it solved the problem, because cycling didn't happen.

Unfortunatelly within the last week unit shutted down 3-times (on different locations, different power supplies circuit) during different operations ( working with looper, enabling effects). Yesterday at rehearsal the unit turned off and didn't turned on !! - it was off for at least 30 seconds and nothing worked - I tried to restart it using power switch, change the power supply circuit= nothing.

I'm really disappointed, because I really like the unit, but waiting for resolution of this issue for "months" and m13 works very unpredictable. I decided to return the unit , unfortunatelly.

Could I help somehow? Provide some information?



Re: M13 Power Problem
by willrivaldo on 2011-06-06 02:30:38

Hi Hugo, thanks for your message.

I live in London UK and when I tried to 'search for my nearest service centre' this website told me there isn't one 'within a 360 mile radius of your location'. However, it did say list this place:


The POD [ Line 6 UK ]
Clifton House
Butlers Leap
Rugby, Warwickshire
CV21 3RQ
+44 1788 566 566 (phone)
0044 1327 302 704 (fax)

Is this the only one in England?

thanks



Re: M13 Power Problem
by djb303 on 2011-06-07 16:38:59

hi has anybody got back to you on this yet     i am also in the uk   but my one is well out of warranty.............

can't remember when i first posted ....my unit is sitting in a wardrobe and will be nowhere near a gig

unless this is resolved....i wont sell it on to anyone because of this   and can only hope that one day it will become

an olde curiosity   and i can hand it down to my grandkids                         cheers   dave



Re: M13 Power Problem
by portorikan on 2011-06-10 14:19:30

All of a sudden this week my M13 won't turn on at all. Using the power supply that came with the device. I've had it for a least a year or more I believe. I'm running V 2.0. I tried to update it a while back but the midi cables wouldn't work. It's powered out a few times before but it always seemed to come back after a bit. Not this time.

I tested the power supply on another pedal and that seems to be working. Any ideas or tips on how to possibly rectify this before contacting a service center? Trying to save some money here.

Thanks!

PS: I also the nearest service center is 2 hours away from me, which is quite the drive.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by swickpro on 2011-06-14 10:04:23

Perhaps a L6 moderator could chime in...

http://line6.com/community/message/288432#288432



Re: M13 Power Problem
by portorikan on 2011-06-15 19:03:36

I happen to be going out of town this weekend and there's an authorized Line6 service shop there. I'm going to pay them a visit and hope they can help. Unfortunately, after calling them to let them know I was coming from out of town, I don't have a whole lot of hope. They're apparently just got back into carrying and servicing Line6 problems. We'll see what they say. If I find anything out, I can share it in this thread.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2011-07-26 00:10:48

Hey guys, Rich here. I wanted to give you a quick update. I got 3 units back from guys here that have this random power cycling issue. It is still not solved but we are testing the heck out of these 3 new units and we have gotten a few clues. I have another one that seems to be doing it more often on its way back to me as well.

Please keep posting here. Also, you guys here with units that are power cycling, please email me at richrenken@line6.com. You will not be left hanging. This is not a warranty issue. It is our issue to solve. We have sold tens of thousands or more at this point so it is still isolated. You know what would be helpful? Can you guys let me know if you are still having the problem and when you originally purchased your units by posting here in this forum?



Re: M13 Power Problem
by LifeEcho21 on 2011-07-26 20:01:25

Hey Rich, Mine had stopped doing it for a while after I did the update but it already did it to me again on sunday at practice. It just did it once. Hopefully it doesn't do it again. I'll keep you updated.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by den08 on 2011-08-17 08:17:17

Hello, Line6RichRenken.

My M13 was purchased from eBay Store in USA on the 2nd of January, 2011 (still covered by warranty).

The unit has the same problem, as it's described in this thread.

As I live in Russia, I would like to know: what are my options in the way to get it fixed or replaced?

Appreciate your business.

Thank you and best regards,

Denis



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2011-08-31 18:18:58

Hey Denis, can you email me at richrenken@line6.com. I will help you. I will get you to the right people who can help you there in Russia.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by nickdangerdfw on 2011-09-05 17:58:06

My M13 did this when I first got it a couple of years ago, then it stopped. Now it does it aboout every other time I turn it on. Ughhh



Re: M13 Power Problem
by gaffocarl on 2011-09-06 13:14:54

Hi, I just bought an M13 from eBay. It came with the original power supply. I bought it from America but I'm living in Ireland so I had to use an adapter to suit the plug. The problem is that the unit won't power on! There's a very strange smell coming from the transformer of the power supply, does this mean the power supply is broken?!

Any help would be appreciated!!



Re: M13 Power Problem
by phil_m on 2011-09-06 14:33:24

Sounds like you fried the adapter there, and possibly the M13 itself. The American adapter is rated for 120V, and the voltage in Ireland is 230V. You can't just put an adapter on the plug - you actually need to use a transformer or get the European power supply. Hopefully you just damaged the power supply and not the M13 itself. Your best is to find a Line 6 dealer in Ireland and see if you can pick up the correct power supply for the M13.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by gaffocarl on 2011-09-08 13:54:56

No I'm thinking I just burnt out the adapter (which isn't a problem seeing as I'd never use it here anyway) because there's a smell of fish (believe it or not) coming from the adapter! Gonna pick up an Irish power supply tomorrow so fingers crossed, I've been waiting for WEEKS for the M13!!



Re: M13 Power Problem
by m13bassgenius on 2011-09-08 15:16:32

I updated to 2.04 and it seemed to get better, but fx and power still totally shut down for like 1 or 2 sec then comes back on...

Unit is on and works most of the time but it has this power flicker every time I use it...Maybe once every 10 or 20 minutes, sometimes more, sometimes less. Very random actually.

Is this a common problem?

Is there a known solution?

Forgive me if this answer was already in the post somewhere...

Thanks in advance!



Re: M13 Power Problem
by tito_movingon on 2011-11-02 17:26:25

what's the solution for this issue, cause i have the same, i just send my m13 to a service center and i really hope they can fix this. i just want to know if they have a permanent solution.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by rohmer91 on 2011-11-23 04:05:01

Happen to me few minutes ago. It shut off for 3 or 4 seconds then went back. I heard the relay clicking.

Original power block used. 4 cables plugging.

Happened 3 times today, very erratic.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by rohmer91 on 2011-11-24 07:07:41

I played 2 hours this afternoon after having reset to factory the M13. No more cut off during my gig.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by djb303 on 2011-11-24 16:20:40

i got an email from renkin  offering to replace my unit     even though it was out of warranty............i have been rehearsing a new band 2 months now.....am using 2.04 update     live rehearsal once a week    and maybe a tweak or two  every week ...............no further problems...................It will probably wait for our first gig to go squiggly again...(  kidding  )   ( touch wood )......thats a british superstition thing     not self abuse............cheers   dave



Re: M13 Power Problem
by jpdennis on 2011-11-25 13:59:56

Rich,

Dennis Pinney here. I have updated to the 2.04 a while back. The only thing I can notice now is that I have to "trigger" the expression pedals (EXPs) every time I setup. What I mean is I go to a FX model which has a heel - toe setting for variable adjustment using the EXPs then rock the pedal. Otherwise either the M13 or the pedals don't "know" there is a heel-toe configuration. I use two pedals and they both do the same thing so I am assuming it could be the update (unless the M13 is really built this way and I never noticed it before). Anyway you where asking about what happened when the update of 2.04 was applied.

Dennis




Re: M13 Power Problem
by djb303 on 2011-11-25 15:14:38

i know this may sound dumb    BUT      do you have polarity switches on your foot pedals    i had an upside down wah  until i realised that if i changed the switches it worked normally     hope this helps



Re: M13 Power Problem
by jpdennis on 2011-11-25 15:37:51

I use the Mission Engineering pedals.  They worked fine until I updated the firmware to 2.04.  They still work fine but I have to "trigger" them when I first turn on the unit now.  Not a real problem.  I was just updating Rich.

Dennis



Re: M13 Power Problem
by djb303 on 2011-11-25 16:01:05

i have a couple of cheapos   and  it took awhile.....



Re: M13 Power Problem
by allanesperida on 2011-12-07 12:57:20

Hi there, i just bought mine last month of November from Guitar Center. Since the topic for this thread is "M13 power problem" might as well post my query here. Mine is not fluctuating randomly but upon touching the power input of the adaptor that is plugged to the power input socket of the M13. I don't know if there's an issue with the adaptor input plug or the M13 input socket itself. It's too sensitive. i think there's some loose connection or something. Just a tap of a finger on the plugged input to M13 and the power fluctuates. Any help? Btw, its already 2.04 version when i purchased it. I appreciate it if you guys can help me. Thanks!



Re: M13 Power Problem
by Lotharyx on 2011-12-07 13:44:20

allanesperida -- It sounds like you have a physical problem with the power connector; the issue that this thread is mostly concerned with is a software problem (happens without being touched at all).

Take your M13 back to the Guitar Center where you bought it.  Demonstrate the issue to their technicians, and they should take care of it for you if you really just bought it less than a month ago.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by allanesperida on 2011-12-07 14:23:43

Hey thanks for your help man. yeah i guess i have to send it back to them. I thought it would save me from the hassle of shipping/sending back defective product so i made a query here thinking there something that i can do about it without sending the product back. Oh darn.. why me.. I'm pretty sure all products are Q/A'd before leaving the factory. Thanks again anyways.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by jpdennis on 2011-12-07 23:07:33

allanesperida,

You have me thinking now.  I have noticed the connector to be a little loose since I got my M13 (both the original and one Line 6 exchanged after my display problem).  I have always lock looped the cord around the retainer near the power adaptor connection on my M13 to make sure it doesn't come loose for any reason.  Is this what you do or plug it in and let the cord hang a little loose?  If so then I am wondering if there is a cause and effect to this dilema that has been plaguing the group.

Dennis



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2011-12-07 23:30:54

allanesperida wrote:

Hi there, i just bought mine last month of November from Guitar Center. Since the topic for this thread is "M13 power problem" might as well post my query here. Mine is not fluctuating randomly but upon touching the power input of the adaptor that is plugged to the power input socket of the M13. I don't know if there's an issue with the adaptor input plug or the M13 input socket itself. It's too sensitive. i think there's some loose connection or something. Just a tap of a finger on the plugged input to M13 and the power fluctuates. Any help? Btw, its already 2.04 version when i purchased it. I appreciate it if you guys can help me. Thanks!

Get yours back to GC. It is under warranty and it sounds like it needs to be fixed.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by RichRenken on 2011-12-07 23:45:59

You should always use the anchor to keep the power cord from being accidentally pulled. That said, this doesn't have anything to do with this particular power problem thread. The first time it happened was before M13 shipped. It happened to me in my office at 3am. Nothing but power plugged in. It just started flickering. Shutting down and then starting back up all on its own. It did it a few times and never again. Most who have had this problem never see it again. A few have seen it again like a year later. If you have this issue, just email me at richrenken@line6.com. I will help you get to my contact in Customer Service who is my partner on this issue. I am attaching a video of exactly what the unit does when it has this particular power problem. If you have some other power problem. Just post a new thread and/or contact customer service for next steps.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by allanesperida on 2011-12-08 09:34:02

Thanks Rich! will definitely do that once i find the time and hoping the nearest GC have a stock for replacement. I'm sorry if i posted the issue here rather than starting a new thread since the topic is not specific. you guys have to bear with us consumers since its a bit frustrating when you purchased a brand new item and you've found out that it's defective plus the hassle of sending/waiting for the item especially in this busy season. Btw, I just found out another issue but i think it's not related with the loose connetion but somehow in the future it will be.. the power adaptor is been partially stripped off its covering (its the plastic cover that connect through the main power supply housing. Here's a food for thought for this page's administrators as i know you guys are the advocates for us consumers. I purchased this item because of the flexibility and the sound quality it produce, I'll pay an amount of money i don't care if its expensive but if its worth the quality (aesthetically and hardware wise) i'll buy it. I know M13's predecessor (FM4 etc) have earned its cred for its tank like built and well prepped. I hope you guys will put more consideration in this product (M13) i know you'll do. I just hope in the future all products will be "made in America" again. Just saying. Anyways, kudos to all Line 6 peepz.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by rohmer91 on 2012-02-05 14:27:30

Hi.

What are the latest news about this issue if you have some ?

For me, it didn't happened again since I reset the M13 to factory default.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by Frankie4F on 2012-08-29 06:48:23

Hello,

I was wondering if there's been any news regarding this problem?

I've had my M13 for a week now and i experienced a restart yesterday (while changing effects models, it became unresponsive and then shut off and then on almost inmediately, 1 sec at the most). After this, I kept playing without any issues for almost 2 hours.

As I've seen in this thread people who experienced the problem after up to 2 years of normal use, I'm not sure wether to ask for a new one or stick to this one and confide that it will never happen again.

Any thoughts?

Regards



Re: M13 Power Problem
by phil_m on 2012-08-29 07:38:04

This issue was dealt with in the 2.04 firmware update, so you'll want to check what firmware version you have. You can see what version you're running by going into setup mode (hold the looper controls button for a few seconds). The firmware version you're running will show up in the upper left hand corner of the LCD for the FX1 column. If it's a previous version, you'll need to update to 2.04.



Re: M13 Power Problem
by Frankie4F on 2012-08-29 08:18:02

Thanks for the quick reply!

I actually have the 2.04 firmware. If I recall correctly, a few pages ago there were some users reporting that the problem still persisted after installing the 2.04 version.

Regards



Re: M13 Power Problem
by rodzimguitar68 on 2012-08-29 09:07:01

this happened to me over the Christmas holidays 2010.  I had a line6 person email me 2.04 before it was posted on their website, or maybe the one he sent was 2.02 which was never released.  Too much time has passed and I don't remember.  I have not had an issue since.

At the time, the M13 was on a pedalboard and remained there for another 18 months and I never saw the power cycle issue again.  I did panic the day it happened and quickly purchased a new power supply, but it kept happening even after I was using the new power supply.  software 2.04 fixed my problem.

My M13 is now rack mounted on a pull out shelf and being controlled via MIDI.  To my knowledge it is still going rock solid.  I love this device, now that I'm using it as a midi device, I just wish the tempo set for a scene would save if you tap a different tempo, but then change to another scene and come back into the scene again fresh.  But alas, since it works like an old school pedal, the last tap tempo override is what is stored, not the last tempo setting you set manually.

If someone knows a work around for that issue, I'm all ears.

Thanks



Re: M13 Power Problem
by johnnyplectrum on 2013-02-04 07:44:02

After years of sterling service my M13 decided to do this on me a couple of weeks ago.

Until then I never knew this thread existed.

I was just getting my levels right before a gig and I noticed my M13 was off, then on, then off.

I changed to a spare power supply and the problem remained.

As I run half of the M13 in the loop and half front of amp the unit going on and off was interrupting my sound. I quickly reconfigured it to all run in front of the amp and found that it didn’t ruin my gig totally despite going off at the odd crucial moment. Sometimes it went on and off, others it stayed off for 5 or 10 minutes at a time.

Having realised the problem was not to do with the power supply or the socket outlet I plugged it in the following morning with no other connections and it still cycled on and off at random points.

I opened up the casing just in case there was a wire loose on the power switch or similar but there wasn’t.

I upgraded the firmware to 2.04 and the problem seemed to be solved. I recorded a quick loop and left it running. I returned a couple of hours later and the loop was still playing.

At my next gig I plugged it all in as usual and after about 2 minutes it started cycling on and off. This time I quickly reconfigured it to front of amp and it stayed on for the entire gig.

The next day I reconfigured it to my normal half and half configuration, plugged in every bit of my normal gig kit using the same extensions leads etc and recorded another short loop. This loop played uninterrupted for seven hours.

I’m now very keen to see what happens at the next gig!



Re: M13 Power Problem
by WIRTSCHAFTER on 2013-03-06 11:44:46

Hi

I've got my M13 for 2 years now, i've always been satisfied by it, until today.

Last year it start powering on and off like everyone here said (i was at this point already on the 2,04 firmware) so i made it back to  "factory set" and then backed up all my scenes.
Problem solved ! No more buggs, until a week ago, it started to do it again, i thought i'll pass, so i waited a bit for trying to do the same trick.

Unfortunately since 2 days, it doesn't even power on anymore, whatever i do, i tryed everything, including plug it on different spot in my house.

Yesterday i even bought the PX-2, i thought it might have been a power supply issue, but it doesn't work neither, 40$ wasted.

I don't know what to do anymore, do you have any idea what should i do ?

It isn't under warranty anymore, and there's no official Line6 service center in France...

Please help me !

EDIT :  I just tryed to do a reset factory/update with it, by putting the midi interface as if i was going to update it or something, and finally a "response" from it.

i've got the 4 screens, with a low red lights, and screens are doing tiny red blinking.

i'm not sure it is a good sign, but at least it is one ...

In my opinion so far, by reading the thread and my own experience with it, i think it's a software issue.

Still, i'm stuck...

Waiting for support team



Re: M13 Power Problem
by WIRTSCHAFTER on 2013-03-07 08:27:45

allanesperida a écrit:

Hi there, i just bought mine last month of November from Guitar Center. Since the topic for this thread is "M13 power problem" might as well post my query here. Mine is not fluctuating randomly but upon touching the power input of the adaptor that is plugged to the power input socket of the M13. I don't know if there's an issue with the adaptor input plug or the M13 input socket itself. It's too sensitive. i think there's some loose connection or something. Just a tap of a finger on the plugged input to M13 and the power fluctuates. Any help? Btw, its already 2.04 version when i purchased it. I appreciate it if you guys can help me. Thanks!

If i may add, i add exactly the same thing.

I've got some news today, i managed to power it on enough time to reset it to factory settings, and then tadaaaa : no more power on/off issues, got planty of time to put the 2.04 again (already got it on it, but i wanted to do it)

Still, i was unable to save my scenes before reset it to factory, so i lost all the scenes i made during the last year...

But finnally got it working.

In my personnal opinion, the power problem is purely a software issue, because i've changed the power supply and nothing changed, i'm running it with the old one !

This issue seems to come once a year, because as i said in my last post above this one, i had the exact same issue last year, and made it go away as i did today. It seems periodical.

Planned obsolescence ?

One last thing, i'm leaving this little bad comment, but i must add i'm a pretty good fan of this product, for the good qualities of effects in it,  even with this little issue.

Cheers from France, hope you line6 staff guys find out what's wrong with it.




The information above may not be current, and you should direct questions to the current forum or review the manual.