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FBV ShortBoard Pedal Not controlling Volume in full Sun
by rmdnet on 2010-06-19 06:14:28

Extension of last reply to Line6 Miller's response to post saying to send to service.

Setup : FBV Shortboard with Spidervalve MKII HD100

We tried it one last time at an outdoor gig. Just in case we weren't doing something right.  It is most definately the sun playing havoc with the unit.  We put in in the sun, pedal volume did not work.  We ran through the resync process and after using toe switch and doing the min and max toogles on D switch, and the final test was quite unusual.  It stayed at Zero. No movement from 0 to 12x like normal.  When we move the unit into the shade it was able to work fine after the resync.  Tried that whole process again to be sure I wasn't crazy and the sun seemed to kill the volume pedal. This is brand new equipment that is still under warrantee so I guess I'l take it for service.  I'm wondering however if I end up with some refurb that will cause me more issues down the road.  We really need for a few gig in july (outdoors so hopefully they fix it fast).  Is that the only choice? Help

Problem Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLPix_aJ7i4



Re: FBV ShortBoard Pedal Not controlling Volume in full Sun
by pletch5034 on 2010-06-22 06:52:52

FBV Shortboard w/Spider VI 75w...Also played an outdoor gig in full sun on June 19 and had the same problem. After setting up, I found that there was no controlling volume or wah with the pedal. All other controls functioned properly. Tried changing the cable without any improvement. Thought the pedal needed to be sent for repair until I read this post. Set it up in the studio last night and it worked perfectly. Is there a fix for this issue? Tech seems to think the pedal uses a photocell for controlling and that being in bright light overrides the sensor. Glad it's working though.



Re: FBV ShortBoard Pedal Not controlling Volume in full Sun
by rmdnet on 2010-06-22 22:32:33

I'm waiting for some feedback from Line6.  We had to hide the unit from the sun in the shade of the drums to get the pedal to function when outdoors.  Works perfectly in studio and in club gigs.  About to take it back for service but not sure if that would fix a design flaw.  It works perfectly indoors so the sensor is not bad, it just seems to get overwhelmed in full sun.  I'm surprised more folks haven't seen it.



Re: FBV ShortBoard Pedal Not controlling Volume in full Sun
by rmdnet on 2010-06-23 08:34:12

More Information.  Service Center said they might need the Head as well and it might take a couple of weeks.  That would kill the summer concert session.  Help Line 6. Is there any other option!!



Re: FBV ShortBoard Pedal Not controlling Volume in full Sun
by rmdnet on 2010-06-23 18:12:16

Even More Information : Took unit back to Guitar Center and they told me  the it is a known issue and said returning it to them wouldn't help because the  sensor is not defective if it works fine when out of direct sun.  Hey anybody from Line 6 out there???



Re: FBV ShortBoard Pedal Not controlling Volume in full Sun
by rmdnet on 2010-07-05 20:49:05

Hmmm Answered? 



Re: FBV ShortBoard Pedal Not controlling Volume in full Sun
by rmdnet on 2010-07-05 20:59:32

More information :  If you have an external expression pedal then you can use that in full sun.  THe built in shortboard pedal is useless.  Actually dangerous as if you accidently move a shadow over the unit which appears to cut the volume off then as the shadow passes, the sound jumps back to a different volume.  External pedal is mechanical and appears to work.  This is a bit disappointing for what is otherwise a fantastic unit.  Stuck with it as it has the only connection to HD100 MKII for loading tones.  Bummer!   Hey Line 6 Quality Dept.  Please Test and respond to the folks buying your most current stuff.  A future fix would be nice.



Re: FBV ShortBoard Pedal Not controlling Volume in full Sun
by Nick_Mattocks on 2010-07-06 05:23:07

Hi

OK - maybe a bit of detective work on your part would help you in the short term.   You know what the problem is exactly - bright sunlight.   What you need to determine is exactly where the light is getting in, and although the answer to that might initially appear obvious, it may not be as obvious as you think.

Number one place to look is the obvious - the hole inder the toe of the pedal where there is a piece of metal attached to the underside of the toe end of the pedal and which protrudes down inside the casing.  You can check whether this is the cause of the problem by jerry-rigging something to block the ingress of light around the hole just to test what happens with the pedal at different heights with the hole covered and uncovered.   I suspect this is most likely where the problem lies.  There is a foam ring inside the holewhich I think is supposed to help with this issue but it moves.  In my opinion, this problem requires a solution where the hole into the guts of the Shortboard is completely shielded.  A short length of thin but light tight compressible (concertina like ribbing) rubber tubing which covers the hole and is affixed to the underside of the toe end of the pedal would work and without impeding the travel of the pedal.  This type of rubber tubing can sometimes be found in the engine bay of modern cars on the ends of throttle or clutch cables or near door hinges in cars where it is used to provide flexible shielding for electric window, door speakers and electric door mirror wiring.  A trip to the local scrap yard might be in order.

The second place to look and a less likely cause in my opinion would be the seams around the casing which may be a little more 'gappy' than is ideal.  My Shortboard is well made and doesn't appear to have excessive gaps in the places where the different metal panels are screwed together, so I would think that all Shortboards are built to similar standards.   But - you could use some gaffer tape to ensure that these are light tight if you think there may be a problem.

I appreciate that you shouldn't have to resort to any of the above, but in the short term in the light of there not (apparently) being a fix, necessity is the mother of invention so you may have to be a little inventive/creative in finding your own solution until a fix is available

Nick



Re: FBV ShortBoard Pedal Not controlling Volume in full Sun
by rmdnet on 2010-07-06 19:58:38

Thanks for the reply.  Is it just me or is all this stuff you mentioned quite dissapointing for what is otherwise fantastic equipment (at least the HD100 MKII is).  Interesting that I have a POD X3 Live and never really experienced this type issue and the pedal looks the same (hole in the body as well).  Would like something constructive from Line 6 on this but I appreciated your help.  Sounds like you have the MKII as well based on the fact that we were the first few folks uploading tones (which you of course toasted everyone on!).   Have you tried this in bright sunlight at all yourself?   I was going to try a custom pedal cover that covers the hole and the pedal at the same time but without losing the switches. (Hey a new Aftermarket!)  More on this saga until Line 6 QC dept gets back to me with a solution.



Re: FBV ShortBoard Pedal Not controlling Volume in full Sun
by pletch5034 on 2010-07-08 10:27:27

rmdnet,

Am fabricating a piece of fabric that will attach to the bottom of the foot pedal and the board. Similar to a bellows. Will see if this is a quick fix.

Nick,

I hope Line 6 pays you something. You more support than Line 6 support. I thought I sent this to the support site, but have heard nothing. Will include pix of my fix attempt.

Pletch



Re: FBV ShortBoard Pedal Not controlling Volume in full Sun - Apended
by GeeTah on 2010-07-12 05:18:14

Hey everyone:

Well.... guess the FBVShortboard and the X3 Live use the same potentiometer for the foot pedal gain.

Check this: Right now my X3 Live is in the shop due to the problem described in the thread found at http://line6.com/community/thread/38460?tstart=0 - basically oversensitvityto stage lighting. I bought an X3 Pro for my live rack and decided to go with the FBVShortboard MKII to control it. First show I used it (this weekend) a spotlight panned across me right when I had it muted (with the pedal), my tech was handing me another guitar and I plugged it into my body pack only the give the crowd a big BUZZ/BANG and I plugged into what SHOULD have been a muted line. The spotlight only came across me for a second (it just happened to be the exact second that we were changing guitars).

Later one of our engineers checked out the pedal with a bright LED flashlight and panned across the hole in the pedal and was able to make the volume change even with the pedal rocked all the way back (supposedly muted). Same exact issue as the X3L...

Guys what I believe we have here is a problem with the design of the X3L and FBV case in that it appears to be incapable of keeping light away from volume pot inside the board.... My FBV will be returned today...  but this is getting to be a drag. Really don't want to keep exchanging these.

Maybe we need to come up with a really good and semi-permanent bellows for the hole that we can offer to everyone who is having this issue.....



Re: FBV ShortBoard Pedal Not controlling Volume in full Sun - Apended
by rmdnet on 2010-07-12 16:39:16

Bummer on the POD.  I reviewed the videos of the full sun performance with the pod and it might have worked well because it was right next to a monitor but we had a few issues that I assumed were the sound engineers fault at the time. We have no choice but to keep it as it's the only way to get tones into the HD100 MKII.  Double bummer!  At least the the cheap EX-1 external footswtich works fine for the volume if conntected.  Thanks for the note.  If someone has a solution it would be nice to use both pedals.  



Re: FBV ShortBoard Pedal Not controlling Volume in full Sun - Apended
by GeeTah on 2010-07-13 04:56:08

Agreed on the Double Bummer! Definitely a shame. Really didn't want to have to connect an extra pedal to the board just to get it to perform basic duty (because of a malfunctioning main pedal on the board itself), but that's probably the best idea so far. I am taking the new FVB MKII Shortboard into GC today for an exchange (I have only had it a week and it came from the factory with this problem), but my guess is that this is a design issue, not a service issue. We shall see.....



Re: FBV ShortBoard Pedal Not controlling Volume in full Sun
by GeeTah on 2010-07-13 18:55:33

Hey Pletch,

Did you ever get around to crafting that bellows/light-shield for your FBV?

Bradley GT (GeeTah)



Re: FBV ShortBoard Pedal Not controlling Volume in full Sun
by pletch5034 on 2010-07-23 08:21:28

Greetings All,

I have made up a bellows type of shield to mount under the pedal, again similar to a bellows. I am playing outdoors again today and will see if this addresses our problem. I will post pix and description if it works. Still wondering why Line6 hasn't chimed in on this issue. An attorney friend thinks they may not want to deal with liability of the cost of a fix. Oh well.

Pletch



Re: FBV ShortBoard Pedal Not controlling Volume in full Sun
by GeeTah on 2010-07-23 09:34:29

Pletch:

Will look forward to your design and the images.

I actually posted a question on another area of the forum about an FBV controller we use with a rack-mount X3 Pro. It is doing exactly the same thing. We're pretty connected to Guitar Center and had them test a group of about 20 (5 here and 15 more at their warehouse in Kansas City) and they all were light sensitive. We just received one of our X3L's back from warranty repair for this exact problem and it came back with the same problem (even with a brand new PCB inside). So, to us it seems like a problem with the design of the unit, not its duty life.

I guess it's OK if you play in your living room, but to be used in a pro setting where we have lights all over the place - moving spots, etc. it just renders the Line 6 volume controllers a "not road worthy" package... and I truly do hate that as it is the by-far the best sounding gear we've found in the price point (we are using 3 X3's now and have a 4th for a backup). The handiest thing for us has been to sync all of our X3's in Gearbox so that they all behave the same way. We used the Rocktron and TC Helicon systems before X3 and really like this system best (other than this one thing).

Anyway, thanks much for helping this get worked out Pletch - hate to say it, but I really don't think  the guys at Line 6 are wanting to hear about it.... (like this thread being labeled answered and it isn't).  BTW, our workaround (so far) has been using gaffer's tape to shield the hole under the expression pedal from the light.....

Rock on....



Re: FBV ShortBoard Pedal Not controlling Volume in full Sun
by pletch5034 on 2010-07-23 11:00:58

line6shield2.jpg here it is, used a length of wire from a hanger to form a frame and bent it so that frame snapped in under the pedal. will see if it works tonight.

line6shield.jpg



Re: FBV ShortBoard Pedal Not controlling Volume in full Sun
by rmdnet on 2010-07-23 16:51:54

Boy, It's a shame we have to do this with zero help from line 6. Obviously all of these "Artists" listed are not really using this pedal.  I chickened out taking the EX-1 expression pedal to a outdoor show.  But that was only after I found out that the old FBV Express (not MKII) I had worked with my HD100 MKII and the pedal was mechanical.  Hey, at least it worked.  I'll be making a video of a test I did.  I noticed that if the sensor is completely covered, that's bad too.  I think yours is a bit more practical as it will let some light in and it appears some light is needed.  Here's a good test.  Just plug shortboard into USB and get a strong flashlight..  Shine it at different angles at the center of the pedal (where it pivots).  In USB mode, if you see the value in the display change then the sun might still cause you some grief.  I'm going to try your idea though.  Thanks. 



Re: FBV ShortBoard Pedal Not controlling Volume in full Sun
by lunagooch on 2010-07-25 06:08:33

I just wanted to add my experience with this issue. I played an outdoor gig last week in the bright sunshine. Later in the day large clouds would pass over and change the level of the guitar volume. The soundman asked my why the guitar level changed so much and I described to him what I had read in this thread.

Folks, this is a bona-fide problem...not the imagination of just a few users. Definitely a design issue. Line6 tarnishes their customer service reputation by not acknowledging the problem...at least admit it!

My thanks to those who are working out the problem with various gizmos...you'd think the manufacturer would help! Shameful and totally disappointing behavior from Line6.

Where is the offical response from Line6!!!!!?



Re: FBV ShortBoard Pedal Not controlling Volume in full Sun
by rmdnet on 2010-07-25 21:39:55

Heres a quick video on the problem with this board.  It's entitled "Help Us Line 6"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLPix_aJ7i4



Re: FBV ShortBoard Pedal Not controlling Volume in full Sun
by rmdnet on 2010-08-01 20:14:09

did the bellows work?



Re: FBV ShortBoard Pedal Not controlling Volume in full Sun
by pletch5034 on 2010-08-02 07:48:08

Hello All,

The mock up of the bellows worked. We were set-up on a large stage facing the West on a very bright (and sweltering hot) afternoon. I set-up my rig and it worked flawlessly.

I watched the video that was linked and see that the pedal can be removed without having to disconnect any linkage. I am going to try placing a material "tube" over the pedal rod where it covers the opening and see if this works.

Funny I get responses and emails from Line6 to buy new gear, but have yet to get a response to our problem.

Pletch




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