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Toneport kb37 in MAC with Snow leopard
by victorfms on 2010-07-15 12:01:03

I see that some users have experienced some problems using KB37 with some specific Mac OS. What are the MAC OS that are incompatible with kb37 and other line 6 softwares like PODfarm?

I intend to buy a MAC with Snow Leopard OS. Is Toneport kb37 recognized by this OS? what about MIDI devices? And softwares?



Re: RE: Toneport kb37 in MAC with Snow leopard
by Kneehow on 2010-07-16 11:24:13

Hi,

  The only thing to be aware of is that we do not have a Line 6 USB Device Driver for 64-Bit OSX environments.

  Our latest Mac OSX USB Device Driver is compatible on 32-Bit 10.6.x (Snow Leopard) systems, but not on 64-Bit Snow Leopard environments yet.

  Regards,

  L6Perry



Re: RE: Toneport kb37 in MAC with Snow leopard
by victorfms on 2010-07-16 13:04:08

I see... in my case I want to buy a MAC with a Core 2 Duo 2.4Ghz processor, with Snow leopard 10.6.3. This is a 32 bit processor processor and OS, right?



RE: Toneport kb37 in MAC with Snow leopard
by Kneehow on 2010-07-16 13:26:15

Hi,

You'll need to check the System Profile specific to that Mac. My MacBook has a 32-Bit Version of OSX, but I have friends who recently purchased Mac's that have the 64-Bit Version of OSX (operating system software) installed from the Apple Store.

You'll need to check first before buying. Intel Duo Core hardware processors are 64-Bit. But the software that is installed can be either 32-Bit or 64-Bit OSX. That's what you will want to verify first.

Regards,

L6Perry



Re: RE: Toneport kb37 in MAC with Snow leopard
by victorfms on 2010-07-16 13:32:06

thanks for your quick and good reply.

But isn't the version (snow leopard 10.6.3) enough to determine whether the OS is 32 or 64 bit?

I want to buy the computer with OS installed on apple store, so I can't choose the OS.

thanks



RE: Toneport kb37 in MAC with Snow leopard
by Line6Hugo on 2010-07-16 14:56:29

No, Victor, just knowing the version also means knowing whether it is 32-bit Snow Leopard or 64-bit Snow Leopard. So, if you are unsure of which OS version of 10.6.3 is installed, you should speaker with an Apple representative to ask which OS version of 10.6 (32 or 64 bit) is installed.

Regards,

Line6Hugo



RE: Toneport kb37 in MAC with Snow leopard
by Kneehow on 2010-07-16 14:59:23

Hi,

Unfortunately, I really cannot help you with this last question, Victor. Apple chooses to configure their computer hardware and software packages however they see appropriate.

If you need to double-check with the specific package options, Apple Computer will need to be the ones to provide you details with the actual unit you plan to purchase.

When I purchased my MacBook 2 years ago, it came with Mac OSX 10.5.2 (32-Bit) because that was the software build they installed my particular unit with. Since I'm not in market to buy a new Mac, I haven't really checked with their current setup options for their 2010 Mac's. You'll really need to research with Apple Store or Apple Tech support on this.

Answering your first question were any known issues from the Line 6 side of things. The answer was that we don't have 64-Bit Mac OSX 10.6.x USB device drivers available yet. Sorry I can't help you with the Mac-specific questions, but I hope my answer was adequate for the Line 6 side of the equation...

Good luck with your prospective Mac computer purchase. Hope you find a system that works for you.

Regards,

L6Perry



Re: RE: Toneport kb37 in MAC with Snow leopard
by victorfms on 2010-07-16 17:02:37

I understand...anyway are you guys developing this driver for 64 bit systems? do you have a forecast for its release?



Re: RE: Toneport kb37 in MAC with Snow leopard
by mcirak on 2010-07-18 14:32:10

If the hardware supports 64bit, you can manually switch Snow Leopard to 32 or 64bit. If you're usually in 32bit mode, hold down the keys 6 and 4 while booting to go into 64bit mode for that session. There's ways to permanently set 64bit, you can find those methods on search machines [edit: http://macperformanceguide.com/SnowLeopard-64bit.html].To find out what your OS is using, click the apple -> 'About this Mac' -> More info... -> Software. Here you can see if '64-bit Kernel and Extensions' is set to Yes or No. Currently most systems still run in 32bit mode to avoid compatibility issues.

Mind that the software you use can be set to 64bit even if the OS is running 32 bit. If you're using/gonna use Logic Pro, right-click the app in the finder and click 'Get Info'. There's a checkbox you have to check to start it in 32bit mode (unchecked means it starts in 64bit mode).

I'm quite frustrated about there not being any 64bit drivers for my toneport. I work with a lot of virtual instruments and huge sample libraries so I need the extended RAM allocation 64bit systems provide.

My Line6 toneport is the only thing keeping me from switching to a complete 64bit system!

I've been very satisfied with Line6, but I'm currently very tempted to get an M-Audio Fasttrack to replace my toneport, since they support 64bit. What I'm trying to say is: Line6, please hurry with the update, I don't want to switch if I don't have to. But every time I hit a RAM ceiling....

As the OP already asked: is there a release date on the horizon?



Re: RE: Toneport kb37 in MAC with Snow leopard
by bobthebob on 2010-07-18 17:26:12

I'm using a Toneport KB37 with Snow Leopard with a Core Duo 2 processor and although the OS runs in 64bit and can run 64bit apps it will run 32bit apps as well. 32bit apps can't take advantage of RAM over a certain amount - something very large, I think 16GB but I could be wrong - but other than that and probably some less optimized CPU intensive events etc there is no issue.

I've had no problems once I upgraded to the *latest* version of Gearbox - anything lower than 3.72 will NOT run in Snow Leopard.

great device BTW - love it.

all the hardware of a UX2 and a keyboard to boot!

and you can't beat it for value.

good luck.

bennett



Re: RE: Toneport kb37 in MAC with Snow leopard
by bobthebob on 2010-07-18 17:28:56

screen shot...



Re: RE: Toneport kb37 in MAC with Snow leopard
by mcirak on 2010-07-19 07:55:05

You're apparently not running your system in 64-bit. Click the apple -> 'About this Mac' -> More info... ->  Software. Here you can see if '64-bit Kernel and Extensions' is set to  Yes or No. If you would set your system to run in 64-bit mode, your toneport would not work (see the link I posted above for how to enable 64-bit). As Line6Perry said above: "we don't have 64-Bit Mac OSX 10.6.x USB device drivers available yet". Afaik the RAM ceiling per application for 32-bit is 3GB, not 16. Running the system in 64-bit would also give your machine an enormous performance boost (I read something about 30%, can't say for sure though).



Re: RE: Toneport kb37 in MAC with Snow leopard
by bobthebob on 2010-07-19 08:00:32

hmm... I stand corrected!

does this mean my Activity Monitor in the above screen shot is just lying?

thanks,

b



Re: RE: Toneport kb37 in MAC with Snow leopard
by mcirak on 2010-07-19 08:08:49

The link I posted is quite informative, it says the 32-bit system can still run 64-bit applications, and apparently quite a few of the native OS apps are already set to 64-bit. So in that sense I stand corrected regarding my notion that I can't use all my RAM yet, I guess I have to check the Logic Pro settings, I thought I had the program running in 64-bit. According to the link, the system does not need to be 64-bit for 64-bit apps to access all the RAM.

What's left is the performance boost you get when the kernel is set to 64-bit, which is supposedly substantial.

Anyways, thanks for your post which had me research a bit more closely and find out that I should be able to use all of my 32 GB RAM after all. :-)



Re: RE: Toneport kb37 in MAC with Snow leopard
by bobthebob on 2010-07-19 08:11:10

actually the RAM ceiling for 32bit is actually 4GB per process - and I just looked it up and the maximum limit for the entire OS is apparently 32GB (!)...

64bit systems max out at 16TB!!!!!! holy crap!

anyway - here was another - rather confusing - description:

"All software - whether an application or plugin - utilizes virtual memory. Generally speaking, software does not know about or care about the amount of RAM on the computer. Increasing or decreasing RAM will not affect the features or capabilites of an application.


Virtual memory is an imaginary block of memory that is 4 GB on 32-bit computers, and is nearly unlimited in size in 64-bit computers. Every application has its own block of virtual memory.

The operating system (OSX, Windows, Linux, etc) takes care of all the work to convert that virtual memory into the physical RAM on the computer. For example, an application can store and refer to 4 GB of data, even though the computer has 2 GB of RAM. Not only that, you can run six different applications at the same time, each of which has its own 4 GB of data it is utilizing, and they will all execute okay on just 2 GB of physical RAM.

The magic to make that happen is a "page file", which is a disk file that the operating system uses to move application data in and out of the physical RAM.

When an application reports "out of memory", it does not mean that the RAM is too small, instead it means that "I am hitting the 4 GB limit of my virtual memory". Adding RAM will not fix that. Closing other applications will not fix that. What will fix it? Here are a few solutions: (1) shift to a 64-bit computer and use a 64-bit application; (2) On Windows: use the "3 GB" option in your boot-up file; (3) use a "bridge" plugin such as J-Bridge or VE Pro (which effectively gives you two applications, with 4 GB each); (4) Try to reduce data usage by the application, for example, close unused plugins; for Trilian: make sure you have Streaming turned on on the System window; turn on "Lite" choice in the patch browser; reduce the Pre-Load knob on the System window; finally: Trilian and Omnisphere include a "Lite" option that will only load the minimal samples necessary to support the notes that are in the song your host is playing. Refer to the Reference Guide for details.

If virtual memory is so important, why bother installing more RAM? Because undersized RAM means that the operating system will have to frequently move lots of data in and out of the page file: lots of disk IO means slower execution speed and possible audio glitches.

Conversely, adding RAM will not eliminate the "out of memory" errors from hosts, but it will make things run faster and may prevent audio glitches.

If you have a 64-bit system, and a 64-bit host, and a 64-bit plugin, you will never see the host issue an "out of memory" error, because virtual memory is nearly unlimited. However, you will see performance problems if you load up lots of plugins and lots of data, and your RAM is under-sized."

________________________
Logic Pro 9, MacPro Quad Core w/ 13 GB, OSX 10.6.4

Composer, Logic Pro Certified Trainer, Level 2
Author of "Going Pro with Logic Pro 9"

www.jayasher.com

there seem to be several different 'authoritative' perspectives on this issue - I will have to study up some more.

thanks for making me aware of this issue - I had been assuming that SL was a 64bit OS running in emulation for 32bit apps - or something like that

cheers

b



Re: RE: Toneport kb37 in MAC with Snow leopard
by bobthebob on 2010-07-19 08:16:32

lag time on the thread page meant that I posted that last one before I read your last post =j

I'll look at your link above and see if I can make sense of it all.

clearly this topic (like most) is far more complicated than I realized.

but that's what makes life so grand! it's a constant learning process.

cheers,

b



Re: RE: Toneport kb37 in MAC with Snow leopard
by mcirak on 2010-07-19 08:17:38

Omg, my head is spinning. So can I utilize my 32 GB RAM with Logic in 64-bit but the System still in 32-bit mode? Cause that's what the link I posted states. From the info you posted I'm not so sure anymore...

edit: idd, it seems a lot more complicated, I admire your positive attitude though.



Re: RE: Toneport kb37 in MAC with Snow leopard
by bobthebob on 2010-07-19 08:52:13

I know - it is a bit ridiculous!

I just rebooted into 64bit mode and so far what I have noticed is that RAM usage is much more efficient.

I included a screenshot below.

now - I haven't recorded the same set up in 32bit so this is a definitely 'informal' kind of experiment - but I definitely can tell you that editing a large PS file while running Reason as a rewire into Live w/Safari (a RAM hog if there ever was one) running as well would've had my RAM usage about 95%

so that's an obvious benefit. overall I'm not sure the OS/Finder is really noticibly faster although it's possible - it's certainly NOT '250%' faster!

I did turn on PS's "64bit" mode also which I usually don't do as none of my plugins will run in it...

I guess I need to start doing some testing...

anyway - I have as yet to find anything that doesn't run under 64bit - except my Toneport of course =((  - but there's bound to be many other things as well since

apparently anything which uses a .kext file will not run...

very interesting - and this forum was a very unlikely source for this information - thanks!

b



Re: RE: Toneport kb37 in MAC with Snow leopard
by bobthebob on 2010-07-19 08:57:14

hmmm... what *is* a drag is that my Toneport won't even function as a MIDI keyboard.

that's a bit of a bummer.



Re: RE: Toneport kb37 in MAC with Snow leopard
by mcirak on 2010-07-22 10:28:09

Does that mean you're staying in 64-bit mode or is it not working with 32-bit? If it's the latter you probably got defect driver or even hardware, but since you seem quite knowledgable I guess you'd know that.

So if you're in 64-bit mode, what audio interface are you using? Cause if there's no Line6 driver for 64-bit til August, I'm getting a new interface. I've been testing 64-bit some more as well, and there are definitely strong performance boosts when processing larger files. My eye's currently on the M-AUDIO FAST TRACK MKII, but I'm always interested to hear about alternatives.




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