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Better line 6 spider valve mkII 212 or 112?!?
by Milano79 on 2010-08-20 05:09:25

Hi everyone, I am a rookie with  Line 6 but I think between today and tomorow I will purchase a Spider  Valve MKII 112 or 212 in Milan, Italy.

Folks please help! It is  not a matter of money since the price difference is really  insignificant, but which one has a thicker sound? I thought the 212 w/ 2  speakers has more dynamics and is broader and roomier but an expert  technician told me that - since the power is only 40 W - the 112 w/ one  cone suffers less the low wattage of the power amp compared to the 2  speakers pushed by only 40 W.

Do you think it is true or it's his impression? Afterall 2x12 schould be fatter than 1x12, no?

Suggestions? Ideas?



Re: Better line 6 spider valve mkII 212 or 112?!?
by Apologist on 2010-08-20 05:16:18

The 1x12 will likely sound tighter and more focused (possibly thicker depending on how you define it by your ear) the 2x12 as you suspect is likely going to sound more airy or roomier but perhaps not quite as focused.

Guys with mith more tech experience will likely weigh in on the wattage thing per speaker and my guess tell you that it aint gona matter too much in regards to the thickness of your sound.



Re: Better line 6 spider valve mkII 212 or 112?!?
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2010-08-20 05:29:06

Low wattage?  They might say 40 watts, but my amp tech guy here in town says more like 55 when he actually measured the output.  That wattage of tube power section can push a 412 so loud that your ears will bleed, so I don't think you got terrlbly sound advice concerning the 212.



Re: Better line 6 spider valve mkII 212 or 112?!?
by Nick_Mattocks on 2010-08-20 07:16:06

OK - I own an original Spider Valve MkI 112 and a Spider Valve MkII 212.  As far as the power amp circuits go they are both identical or very nearly identical as far as I can see.  The 'front end' or pre-amp/DSP sections are different and it's these that give the amps their various flavours.

I have used my old SV 112 quite a bit live, and Karl is right about the power output - in my opinion the 40w tag is a very conservative estimate.  Power ratings alone do not a loud amp make, but the power rating does have its part to play along with speakers.

The SV112 always sounded great if I added a 1x12 extension cabinet loaded with a Celestion G12-75T - and it was easily as loud as the other guitarist's Marshall TSL100 and 4x12.   On its own with just the V30 speaker it still sounded good, but definitely not as full nor quite as perceptibly loud.

Two speakers will always spread the sound from the amp more widely and in my humble opinion two speakers is better than one.

Now on to the question of which sounds best - MkI or MkII?  I love the sound of my MkI but I have applied a couple of after market modifications in the form of an SVpre and I changed the speaker from the V30 to a Celestion G12-K100 mainly on recommendation from other users and the fact that I got a good deal on the new speaker.  The possibilities with the MkI SV are limited when compared to the SV MkII as there is no way to update the amp or to be able to interface it with a computer for preset editing.

The MkII on the other hand allows updating and computer based editing with the latest firmware (v1.50).  Opinion is somewhat divided on the sound of the MkII with firmware v1.50 installed as opposed to its predecessor v1.17.  Personally I feel that the tone of the amp and models was warmer with 1.17 than with 1.50, but the added FX and the ability to edit presets on computer outweighs any difference in tone (although I would like to see the 1.17 amp models with the added FX).   I'd still say the two speaker configuration is better in the SV MkII 212 than the 112 SV MkII for what it's worth.

I would seriously take your guitar along to your Line 6 stockist and try the 112 and 212 Spider Valve amps side by side before buying and see what you think of the sound yourself as it is such a subjective topic and only you can decide which you like best.

Nick



Re: Better line 6 spider valve mkII 212 or 112?!?
by Milano79 on 2010-08-20 08:01:00

Thanks y'all. What confused me though (before I wanted to get the 212) was this answer to a previous post: "Open back 212s have a lot of cancellation and weird coupling in the low end...", my question now is: what about palm muting and fat distorted sounds? Still the 212 better or the one cone is tighter?

I will try tomorrow w/ my guitar before I make the purchase. Tried both yesterday w/ an Ibanez RG and a Fender Strat at the store and the 212 sounded tighter and more dynamic.

Last thoughts? Thx again...



Re: Better line 6 spider valve mkII 212 or 112?!?
by Nick_Mattocks on 2010-08-20 12:50:37

Well I predominantly use one of three Ibanez RG's that I own with my SV 212 MkII and I have a sound or sounds that I'm happy with, but some users don't like Vintage 30 speakers no way, no how and particularly when in an open backed cabinet.  The problem seems to be two fold with some SVs and V30s in that the bottom end isn't tight enough and that the top end results in a sharp 'ice pick' sound.  I've never experienced the ice pick tone but the bottom end could perhaps be tighter at times.  For these reasons some users have swapped out their V30s for something else and a popular choice with the MkI SVs was the Celestion G12-K100

Palm muting isn't an issue. Fat distorted sound shouldn'yt be an issue either IMO.  However the SV's have a loop so you can always put an EQ in the loop if you wish and this can make a marked improvemet to the amp's tone - which remember is also going to be affected by its surroundings.

Good idea to take your guitar with you tomorrow



Re: Better line 6 spider valve mkII 212 or 112?!?
by mtrash14 on 2010-08-20 15:36:18

Great answer Nick!!!!! (as always I must say).

I agree.  Take your guitar with you and put the amps through their passes before buying.  You must be happy with your purchase!!! That is the first goal here IMO.

I do hear what a 212 does to the sound and I'm not that happy with it at times.  A divider board would probably fix it IMO, but I've never tried that myself.  You may like the 2x12 effect - I can't say.  But I can say it took me some time before I could hear what you are talking about, but when I could I now always do. lol

Good luck

M^T



Re: Better line 6 spider valve mkII 212 or 112?!?
by Nick_Mattocks on 2010-08-21 05:25:14

Hey there M^T.  How's life treating you?



Re: Better line 6 spider valve mkII 212 or 112?!?
by spaceatl on 2010-08-23 18:14:58

Nick & M^T posted great info as always...I couldn't help but notice "palm muting" heavy chugga chugga seems to be a requirement? All I can say is, there are things you can do to make an open back do that better like getting it up off the floor, changing speakers and treating the inside of the cab...but in the end, that thump you are seeking comes from a sealed or ported cab...something to think about...



Re: Better line 6 spider valve mkII 212 or 112?!?
by cgtrox on 2010-08-23 19:13:14

Like THIS!!

2010-08-14 16_39_55.jpg

2010-08-14 16_41_10.jpg

2x12 THUMPER from www.sourmashguitarcabs.com !!

cgtrox



Re: Better line 6 spider valve mkII 212 or 112?!?
by spaceatl on 2010-08-23 19:53:22

Those are sharp...no www though.... http://sourmashguitarcabs.com/

Ijust bought a homemade off ebay...Not for the homemade...It's loaded with 16 ohm Madison Minstrels...$70...I needed the speaks...and that's cheaper than I could get them new when they were made...

I am needing another 212...I think this might be the spot...thanks bro...I say you posted these guys the other day...just wanting a solid sealed 1936 type 212...or two...I got 4 amps and only 2 212 cabs...need 4...then I must play though all of them at once...just to do it...



Re: Better line 6 spider valve mkII 212 or 112?!?
by cgtrox on 2010-08-25 12:14:25

My bad, thanks space! Dude, this cab as it sits (with no logo and no speakers) was only $220.00! Any color, style, size, material, etc. The guy who made it, Bob Forrester does great work. Another great bang for the buck product! Tell him I sent you...

cgtrox




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