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M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by MarkLanc on 2010-09-09 16:37:09

OK so I bought an M9 after all the rave reviews and the concept is brilliant. However I was very let down by the product and it got me thinking I have generally been let down by Line 6 products all the way through my experience with them.Its like I get sucked in to the marketing and want to love the product but can't.

M9 - Ok so my first unit I got home, unwrapped and it had one stiff footswitch that wouldn't engage smoothly, it felt like it was grinding rather than spongy like the rest of them.  So I went back to the store and swapped it for another unit. Had the same problem with another footswitch but even worse, sometimes the footswitch was sticking.

So quality control was a big issue. But I also tried the unit out at home and not one of the fx (expect maybe the delays, tube compressor model and reverbs) matched up to my single analogue pedals. The drives sounded like they were muffled and fatiguing to listen to compared to the originals, the modulations did not handle drives going into them well and sounded thin, the filters were barely usable novelty sounds. Everything sounded less 3 dimensional than my standalone pedals.

I a/b'd the sounds constantly and found that with my engineering experience (perhaps a curse rather than a blessing) my ears were telling the line 6 tones everytime. There was something artificial about them and when you layered guitars on top of one another it just got more fatiguing to the ears. I don't care who says these models sound as warm as the originals, it really isn't the case listening on a decent set of headphones or monitors.

However I wanted to keep it for convenience at rehearshals because I love the concept of the pedal. One pedal to throw in the bag to rehearse with. In fact I love the concept of all line 6 stuff. But I am returning it because the footswitch issue mainly but also because the tones arn't stellar enough to make me want to go through the pain of a third unit.

My first unit was a POD2 and the recordings I made on that make my guitar sound tinny and wasp like now I listen back to them years later. My sansamp pedal sounds more natural.

My UX1 was convenient, low latency, brilliant idea. But the preamps made my tone muddy compared to my EMU, TC Electronic and Focusrite interfaces. Also the modelling was again that artificial fatiguing sound.

The only product I really feel has been worthwhile has been my variax. Not because it sounds better than my other guitars (generally my rickenbacker and strat sound more three dimensional), but because it is so convenient for getting a decent acoustic or twelve string or bango when needed in my studio, and for experimenting with other guitar tones.  its a great product - one that gets a lot of bashing but is useful.

However, saying that my first variax kept cutting out and crackling. Again Line 6 quality control issues.

A lot of people say quite rightly that Line 6 is aimed at low price and therefore they are not 100% pro. I don't dispute that they offer good value for starter guitarists. However what annoys me about Line 6 is the quality control and what i see as misleading advertising (the UX1 pres for example were hyped up as being really good fidelity when in fact they are very poor even compared to my cheapest interfaces and even considering the price). The M9 is meant to be 'tank like' when I have two brand new units with failing footswitches.

So I have made my decision now to stick with analogue pedals and sansamp analogue amp sims and wait until the next generation of pod products. I don't want to appear to be a troll but I really wanted to vent after my latest experience with the M9.



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by RichRenken on 2010-09-09 17:33:01

First, I can tell you are not a troll. We had a batch of switches that our vendor made incorrectly. You can fix them by just spinning them around a bit and almost always they are fine. Sorry for your trouble.

As far as your assessment of the tone. It is all subjective. I understand that. Yes, there are many people that would disagree with you on the M13/M9 as well as the UX-2 in the tone department.

http://mixonline.com/recording/tracking/music-todd-rundgren/

ToddRundgren recorded his album Arena using a UX8, Reason and Riffworks. Go listen and let me know if you hear this a being inferior.

I don't think that Brad Paisley would put up with artificial tone. Here is an article about his rig. Seems like M13 keeps pretty good company.


http://www.premierguitar.com/magazine/Issue/2009/Nov/Front_to_Back_with_Brad_Paisleys_Rig.aspx

Icould start listing off all of the cats that use M13/M9 and our POD Studios for major label recordings, but that isn't really the deal here.

Not every piece of gear appeals or speaks to every guitar player but I didn't want to leave a post like this without an counter-point. It is perfectly fine that you didn't dig your M9 but to say the things you said with statements that we build stuff just for beginners is just not true. You are right, we build killer gear for the guy just starting out, but we also build gear for guys who have been doing it for years. http://line6.com/artists/



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by MarkLanc on 2010-09-09 18:26:12

Thanks for the response.

To be fair I said the products were good value for starter guitarists, I never said people wouldn't use them who wern't starter guitarists.

Firstly the M9 switch thing - I tried exactly what you suggested with both my units originally and it didn't work. Its put me off the product reliability along with all the internet posts about switch problems with the X3 and M13.

Secondly I have to take issues with your other responses, largely because I see them as smoke and mirrors.

One thing Line 6 do very well is state that so and so uses this and that when it's not the full story. I have read almost every artist profile you have ever had on the site and largely the Line 6 hardware is used for demos, on the road or is part of a set up consisting of largely analogue stomps. Some artist saying 'yeah its really cool to get my ideas down' when you actually read the nitty gritty I rarely ever see that someone records their album tone with the gear. To be fair a whole host of amp modelling companies do this 'X ARTIST USES OUR GEAR TO RECORD ETC ETC' and you realise its actually a sketchpad tool for them. There is nothing wrong in that but I always find the advertising wants you to believe they record with it.

Brad Paisely uses a whole host of analogue dirt and modulation boxes. Yes he uses an M13, but it isn't his total solution. I wasn't totally slamming the M9 and said that I believed the delays and reverbs were very good in the unit but was let down by the drives and the modulations etc. I think his set up concurs with what my conclusion was. Perhaps he uses only the delays.

Secondly Todd R was using a UX8 which I read supposedly has better pre amps than the other UX series. As for using Gearbox, well hes a better man than me if he can get organic tones from it.

I don't understand that Line 6 mainly defend their products on basis of value yet you are stating that they are also for professionals.  The problem with you telling people that Line 6 is for professionals is the same problem we have with people listening to classic records in compressed formats, in people listening to stuff on laptop speakers.

I really wanted to love the M9 really I did. My POD too. Gear Box, Pod Farm. But I was spending far too long dialing in sub standard tones with no weight and with ear fatiguing results for the sake of convenience. Yes convenience, which is what i think most users want, in the same way MP3 format has taken over, and people are prepared to watch low res videos over the internet. Line 6 is  a convenient way to get loads of tones in one small box. No big problem with that. But the danger I fear is that in a few years from now you will listen to your POD recorded tunes and be as embaressed about the tones as people were ashamed of 80s hair metal. Hey maybe even Mr Rundgren will also do the same.



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by phil_m on 2010-09-09 19:51:48

I don't know, I'd put the M9 and M13 tones up against just about any other stomp.  I've gone through so many pedals in my playing career that I couldn't begin to count.  To me, the M9 and M13 aren't compromises at all - they're simply great.  They do many things that you simply can't do with other pedals.  I do use other pedals with these things - I still have a fair share of analog distortion and overdrives - but that's more for the fact that I just like using the M13 for other things better.  It's not so much that I don't think those effects sound good on the M13.

I'm not saying you can't have your own opinion - you certainly can.  I just don't see things in quite the negative light as you put them.



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2010-09-09 20:12:54

MarkLanc wrote:

But the danger I fear is that in a few years from now you will listen to your POD recorded tunes and be as embaressed about the tones as people were ashamed of 80s hair metal.

HEY!  I resemble that remark!!!    I play in an 80's Hair Metal band.  We draw some nice crowds, and nobody is ashamed to be playing it or hearing it.  It's making a comeback in a big way.

I actually did dig out an old recording I made with a POD X3 a couple of years ago, and you know what?  Not embarassed about the tone at all.  Still quite proud of it, actually.

Not that I don't agree with you on some points.  I'm sorry the M9 didn't work out for you.  You could use it for just it's strengths, like the delays, reverbs, and mods.  They are just top notch effects.  I prefer analog stomp pedals or the amp's natural overdrive to what I hear in the M13 OD stomps, but that's just me.  And I suspect Brad Paisley too.  I'd be surprised if he was using the M13 dirt stomps.  But that's okay, he's still using the unit for what it is great at. Integrated tap tempo is cool beans with all those time based effects.  You'd be hard pressed to do better than the M13 on those.



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by pbear5 on 2010-09-10 06:01:19

i just wanted to say that i think this is a good example of a mature exchange on a forum--maybe the subject line of the post was a little inflamatory(?) but it seems like a reasonable expression of an opinion.  this statement i completely agree with for gear manufacturers in general, not just Line6:

"One thing Line 6 do very well is state that so and so uses this and that when it's not the full story. I have read almost every artist profile you have ever had on the site and largely the Line 6 hardware is used for demos, on the road or is part of a set up consisting of largely analogue stomps. Some artist saying 'yeah its really cool to get my ideas down' when you actually read the nitty gritty I rarely ever see that someone records their album tone with the gear. To be fair a whole host of amp modelling companies do this 'X ARTIST USES OUR GEAR TO RECORD ETC ETC' and you realise its actually a sketchpad tool for them. There is nothing wrong in that but I always find the advertising wants you to believe they record with it."

i don't really care who is using what anyway but it bothers me that most companies don't even do a good job of faking the "endorsement."  Roland, M-audio, Marshall they all do it.



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by spaceatl on 2010-09-10 09:53:08

This thread seems scripted to me...that's ok...But I don't see a point to the discussion...The absolution instict that Line 6 isn't living up to some subjective expectation wrapped in an opinion that using different stuff for what it does well is the norm...Tell me something I don't know...

Sounds like the guy that bought a base model Camero and is pissed it won't do the 1/4 mile in 14 seconds...I dunno...



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by TheRealZap on 2010-09-10 09:55:31

you're probabl right space nugget... but we can all afford ferrari's.... vrooooooooooooooom!



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2010-09-10 10:56:42

pbear5 wrote:

i don't really care who is using what anyway but it bothers me that most companies don't even do a good job of faking the "endorsement."  Roland, M-audio, Marshall they all do it.

Blame the guitarists they endorse, too.  Some of them are complete gear whores.  They rack up endorsements for free gear or even paid endorsements and then barely use the product.  Or their tech puts it in their rack and it never gets used, to their knowledge.  When you see "so and so uses this amp", you're right.  They might use it.  But at home.  In the end, they use what they're comfortable with on the road, or what their producer tells them to use in the studio.



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by MarkLanc on 2010-09-10 11:15:43

Firstly I am not kidding myself here.. The car analogy is not correct because no car manufacturer will tell you their car goes like a ferrari if it is a cheap city car.

Line 6 on the other hand sell me the dream that this gear is 'tank like' when I had two broken brand new units and was told by the store of other probs.

Line 6 tell me that the gear is suitable for pro applications yet to me it lets me down.

My point is a serious one and worth discussing. Firstly it is to do with poor line 6 quality control. Secondly If we are truly accepting this tone as the norm and being led to believe that its the quality and being used on pro records then we are going to have a generation of people who are accepting of this quality in the same way mp3s are the new standard.

To me the benefit of Line 6 is convenience and that is where the appeal ends. I think if you took convenience out of the equation no one would choose the line 6 tones over traditional means.



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by phil_m on 2010-09-10 11:36:41
To me the benefit of Line 6 is convenience and that is where the appeal 
ends. I think if you took convenience out of the equation no one would
choose the line 6 tones over traditional means.

Well, convenience and cost, I suppose.  Those two things really govern most of the decisions in any marketplace.  If anyone could get anything without hassle or without paying attention to what it cost, well I suppose all manufacturers would make gold-plated guitars made out of the rarest woods in the world.  We'd still all be doing calculations by hand rather than depending on computers.  Of course convenience is a major factor in the decision of what gear we buy.  I guess I don't see how it could ever be taken out of the equation.

There's always a risk of having quality control problems in mass production.  There are people who get PhD's trying to figure out how to improve those things.  Rich acknowledged that they had some issues with a batch.  I don't know what else you would expect a company to do in such a situation.



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by spaceatl on 2010-09-10 12:05:17

the camero analogy is 100% correct...  you bought an m9 expecting m13 features... the dipshit that buys a base model V6 camero for 24k that expects the 14 sec. 1/4 mile that can only be had with L7 v8 in the 40k+ SS model sounds a whole lot like what you are posting about...

you don't like L6, cool, WTF are you doing here then if you are a pro?

I don't hang around the Seymour Duncan forum or Celestion...I can't stand dunc pups...not that they sound bad or are not pro...But they let me down about 25 years ago and I went to Dimarzio and never looked back....Same with Celestion....I will NOT use speakers from a company that does NOT know what true VAS parameters are...But pros use them...They aren't for me...

You got burned and that really sux...Your minimal number of posts on this forum lead me to believe that you never really tried to allow Line 6 the chance to make it right for your...Shiot happens when a company designs stuff here and has it made over there...just the way it is these days...you come across as such a negative dude...sucks to be you I guess...



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by pbear5 on 2010-09-10 12:22:42

oh i've been pretty hard on Zzak Wylde believe me--he's like the Martha Stewart of guitar gear (see, there i go again.)  on my kinder days i figure that if a guy gives his whole life to making music (and the excesses that go with it) maybe it's o.k. if he pads the old 401k with donations from suckers who will pay extra for bullseye graphics on a stomp box.  so maybe a respected musician uses gear and maybe they are just standing next to it for a few $'s but what difference does it make?  i'm pretty sure Jimmy Page used a Danelectro on a recording--does that make it a good guitar?  no, but it worked for whatever he was using it for.

back to the M9--you know, i've always thought of Line6 gear as very affordable ways to expand your toolbox.  maybe they aren't your "A" rig or whatever but if you want to experiment with alternative amps, effects and instruments they are fantastic value.  so, in the case of the M9 or M13, sure they might not convince you to throw out your Bad Horsey and Cry-Baby but they give you a load of alternative effects to use for inspiration.  if you find that you are using the hell out of a particular model you might consider picking up the real thing.  the build quality issues really suck--not that i have experienced any of this with the M9 which i don't own--but that is so common in the world today that it doesn't surprise me.  i am so sick of imported stuff that looks like the real thing but just isn't quite right that i have lost any urge to buy anything.



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by spaceatl on 2010-09-10 12:25:05

The only thing I am pissed at Zak about is him buying up all the maple fretboard LPCs....The things are rare to start with...Then there he goes running up the price...That's just squawky IMO...



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2010-09-10 13:50:36

Between Zakk Wylde and Kerry King you have two guitarists who will endorse just about anything.  Put a bullseye or a tribal tattoo on it.



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by spaceatl on 2010-09-10 13:58:09

or camoflage...



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by MarkLanc on 2010-09-10 15:33:56

spaceatl your car analogy IS wrong. I wasn't expecting what was never on the table in the first place. i wasn't expecting an m13- i don't know where that came from!! i was expecting an M9 with the features as described by Line 6- the tank like build quality and the hyped emulations.

See you say i am being negative and not giving Line 6 a chance but I am a long time Line 6 User. You can see that I didn't hammer them completely.

Yes I don't post a lot because I concentrate on making music rather than constantly talking about gear all the time. But I felt that this time I needed to say something because if no one does then then nothing gets sorted. Why am I here? Well to make Line 6 realise that they have let a customer down.

All this about me being a 'pro' I never said I was. I said that Line 6 sells an image of this gear being 'pro' both in sound and build quality with the constant 'profiles' of stars who supposedly use this for their albums etc. However my experience is very different to that.

The person saying that convenience and price are all factors in selling gear, yes this is true. But what irks me is that on the one hand users and Line 6 are saying that Line 6 is for people to work out their tones so they can decide what 'real' gear to buy. Then I am getting the message that it is pro quality both in build and sound. The Line 6 marketing is very good. The 'Model Gallery' with actual pictures of the real FX. Makes me warm and fuzzy. Makes me want to like the emulations. But I am let down by them.

A serious issue comes out of this. A generation of guitarists and engineers are taking convenience and choice and gadgets over sound. This is serious. hey I have been suckered in by it. Instead of a decent small collection of analogue pedals, one decent guitar and a decent amp. Now we want 100 amp emulations and FX all in a box the size of a thumb, getting lost for hours in choice instead of creating.

The M9 fiasco has finally made me see the light. I was making more and better sounding music with a handful of analogue pedals and one guitar. I hope you can take this for what it is and not flame me for it. Many of you have made good points.



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by RichRenken on 2010-09-10 17:32:48

MarkLanc wrote:

Firstly I am not kidding myself here.. The car analogy is not correct because no car manufacturer will tell you their car goes like a ferrari if it is a cheap city car.

Line 6 on the other hand sell me the dream that this gear is 'tank like' when I had two broken brand new units and was told by the store of other probs.

Line 6 tell me that the gear is suitable for pro applications yet to me it lets me down.

My point is a serious one and worth discussing. Firstly it is to do with poor line 6 quality control. Secondly If we are truly accepting this tone as the norm and being led to believe that its the quality and being used on pro records then we are going to have a generation of people who are accepting of this quality in the same way mp3s are the new standard.

To me the benefit of Line 6 is convenience and that is where the appeal ends. I think if you took convenience out of the equation no one would choose the line 6 tones over traditional means.

I am using this and forwarding your experience to the "powers that be". I told you above that the vendor put some switches together wrong and it results in some sticky switches. This truly bums me out. I couldn't agree more with the spirit of what you are saying about QC. I would care if you were the only guy that ran into this. We have nipped it in the bud but units were already in the field and it is not every unit.



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by phil_m on 2010-09-10 17:59:13

But what irks me is that on the one hand users and Line 6 are saying that
Line 6 is for people to work out their tones so they can decide what
'real' gear to buy. Then I am getting the message that it is pro quality
both in build and sound.

I'd say both of the statements are true despite their apparent contradiction.  To some, Line 6 has been the "entrance drug" into purchasing some of the actual modeled amps and effects.  Personally, I don't really use the amp modeling anymore live simply because I don't need as many options as it gave me.  But being exposed to all sorts of different sounds gave me a good starting of what I was looking for in an actual amp.

As far the stuff being pro quality - a lot of it simply is.  There's Line 6 stuff on all sorts of pedalboards and stages of touring bands.

Instead of a decent small collection of analogue pedals, one decent
guitar and a decent amp. Now we want 100 amp emulations and FX all in a
box the size of a thumb, getting lost for hours in choice instead of
creating.

Well, it is possible to miss the forest for the tree and become a victim of the paradox of choice, I guess, but I also don't think I would say that I'd want to stick with just analog pedals and technology from 30 years ago.  Analog doesn't automatically equal good, and digital doesn't equal bad.  There are simply things that I can do with something like the M9 and M13 that I can't do with other pedals.  For example, if I want to sync a tremolo with two cascading delays using individual stomps, it would be nearly impossible, especially in a live situation.  Even doing it with digital effects isn't always easy or possible.  With the M13, it's insanely simple.

Like I said earlier, you have every right to like what you like, but the reasons you're giving just don't resonate with me.



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by RichRenken on 2010-09-10 18:00:20

MarkLanc wrote:

Thanks for the response.

To be fair I said the products were good value for starter guitarists, I never said people wouldn't use them who wern't starter guitarists.

Firstly the M9 switch thing - I tried exactly what you suggested with both my units originally and it didn't work. Its put me off the product reliability along with all the internet posts about switch problems with the X3 and M13.

Secondly I have to take issues with your other responses, largely because I see them as smoke and mirrors.

One thing Line 6 do very well is state that so and so uses this and that when it's not the full story. I have read almost every artist profile you have ever had on the site and largely the Line 6 hardware is used for demos, on the road or is part of a set up consisting of largely analogue stomps. Some artist saying 'yeah its really cool to get my ideas down' when you actually read the nitty gritty I rarely ever see that someone records their album tone with the gear. To be fair a whole host of amp modelling companies do this 'X ARTIST USES OUR GEAR TO RECORD ETC ETC' and you realise its actually a sketchpad tool for them. There is nothing wrong in that but I always find the advertising wants you to believe they record with it.

Brad Paisely uses a whole host of analogue dirt and modulation boxes. Yes he uses an M13, but it isn't his total solution. I wasn't totally slamming the M9 and said that I believed the delays and reverbs were very good in the unit but was let down by the drives and the modulations etc. I think his set up concurs with what my conclusion was. Perhaps he uses only the delays.

Secondly Todd R was using a UX8 which I read supposedly has better pre amps than the other UX series. As for using Gearbox, well hes a better man than me if he can get organic tones from it.

I don't understand that Line 6 mainly defend their products on basis of value yet you are stating that they are also for professionals.  The problem with you telling people that Line 6 is for professionals is the same problem we have with people listening to classic records in compressed formats, in people listening to stuff on laptop speakers.

I really wanted to love the M9 really I did. My POD too. Gear Box, Pod Farm. But I was spending far too long dialing in sub standard tones with no weight and with ear fatiguing results for the sake of convenience. Yes convenience, which is what i think most users want, in the same way MP3 format has taken over, and people are prepared to watch low res videos over the internet. Line 6 is  a convenient way to get loads of tones in one small box. No big problem with that. But the danger I fear is that in a few years from now you will listen to your POD recorded tunes and be as embaressed about the tones as people were ashamed of 80s hair metal. Hey maybe even Mr Rundgren will also do the same.

This made me smile because I think we do a crappy job of getting the word out on who is using our gear and for what. We definitely do not say stuff that is not true or even imply it. Where did you see the ad of Todd or Brad that we ran?

I am sorry that I gave two examples. I hesitate to give examples, because it doesn't matter. With M13, I could go on and on and on, but you know what you like. I disagree with your assesment of the quality. I have not doubt it doesn't work for you. It works for guys on many levels and many ways.

http://line6.com/m13/sounds02.html

Imix records and I recorded these sounds straight into a clean Divided by 13 amp, you can read about how it was recorded on that page. The first clip is the sound of the amp clean. Nothing was changed in the record chain in the sound samples. If you think they sound sub standard and have no weight, then I don't know what to tell you.



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by mmmd666 on 2010-09-10 18:31:18

The only Line 6 gear I own is a Flextone 2 HD. I have never had a problem with this amp untill recently when it seems to have blown the output. Not bad after at least eight years of use. However I have long held the opinion that Line 6 foot pedals are not as durable as they appear. Both Volume and Wah pedals bent, Quite easily I might add. The switches always seemed tempermental and did let me down in the past. I agree quality control with any product can turn a person off, but perhaps the design of the product leaves a little to be desired.

Subjective opinions are always hard to prove or disprove. Maybe after all the years of hearing the tones from analogue stomp boxes your ears find those tones more pleasing, myself I find many stomp box noises grating and unidimensional. I play an Ibanez Frank Gambale model, it has humbuckers with a coil split. It sounds close to a Les Paul at times or it can sound like a Fender depending on how things are set up, but mostly it sounds like an Ibanez. I think, if you own an Ibanez Tube Screamer you will not be happy with any product that says it sounds just like a Tube Screamer, but if you don't own one or can't afford one you'll probably never know the differance.



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by spaceatl on 2010-09-10 18:59:03

Sure you were Mark...You said yourself that the only FX you found useful were the delays and that perhaps more selection on modulations would have helped...Well, the M13 gives you more selection....nuff said...



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by MarkLanc on 2010-09-11 04:26:37

spaceatl wrote:

Sure you were Mark...You said yourself that the only FX you found useful were the delays and that perhaps more selection on modulations would have helped...Well, the M13 gives you more selection....nuff said...

This is wrong, go back and read my original post. I liked the delays but I found almost everything else dissapointing. I never said anything about wanting more of a selection on the mods.

If you really think I am that stupid to 'buy a datsun and expect a ferrari' then you are not getting the point of what I am saying. The point that most other people here have grasped.



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by MarkLanc on 2010-09-11 04:29:30

Line6Renken wrote:

MarkLanc wrote:

Firstly I am not kidding myself here.. The car analogy is not correct because no car manufacturer will tell you their car goes like a ferrari if it is a cheap city car.

Line 6 on the other hand sell me the dream that this gear is 'tank like' when I had two broken brand new units and was told by the store of other probs.

Line 6 tell me that the gear is suitable for pro applications yet to me it lets me down.

My point is a serious one and worth discussing. Firstly it is to do with poor line 6 quality control. Secondly If we are truly accepting this tone as the norm and being led to believe that its the quality and being used on pro records then we are going to have a generation of people who are accepting of this quality in the same way mp3s are the new standard.

To me the benefit of Line 6 is convenience and that is where the appeal ends. I think if you took convenience out of the equation no one would choose the line 6 tones over traditional means.

I am using this and forwarding your experience to the "powers that be". I told you above that the vendor put some switches together wrong and it results in some sticky switches. This truly bums me out. I couldn't agree more with the spirit of what you are saying about QC. I would care if you were the only guy that ran into this. We have nipped it in the bud but units were already in the field and it is not every unit.

I appreciate the sentiment.



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by MarkLanc on 2010-09-11 04:35:15

phil_m wrote:

But what irks me is that on the one hand users and Line 6 are saying that
Line 6 is for people to work out their tones so they can decide what
'real' gear to buy. Then I am getting the message that it is pro quality
both in build and sound.

I'd say both of the statements are true despite their apparent contradiction.  To some, Line 6 has been the "entrance drug" into purchasing some of the actual modeled amps and effects.  Personally, I don't really use the amp modeling anymore live simply because I don't need as many options as it gave me.  But being exposed to all sorts of different sounds gave me a good starting of what I was looking for in an actual amp.

As far the stuff being pro quality - a lot of it simply is.  There's Line 6 stuff on all sorts of pedalboards and stages of touring bands.

Instead of a decent small collection of analogue pedals, one decent
guitar and a decent amp. Now we want 100 amp emulations and FX all in a
box the size of a thumb, getting lost for hours in choice instead of
creating.

Well, it is possible to miss the forest for the tree and become a victim of the paradox of choice, I guess, but I also don't think I would say that I'd want to stick with just analog pedals and technology from 30 years ago.  Analog doesn't automatically equal good, and digital doesn't equal bad.  There are simply things that I can do with something like the M9 and M13 that I can't do with other pedals.  For example, if I want to sync a tremolo with two cascading delays using individual stomps, it would be nearly impossible, especially in a live situation.  Even doing it with digital effects isn't always easy or possible.  With the M13, it's insanely simple.

Like I said earlier, you have every right to like what you like, but the reasons you're giving just don't resonate with me.

I think you are right to the extent that Digital Delays are where digital technology really outstrips analogue in terms of flexibility.  Plus there are amazing things you can do with Line 6 gear like plug a variax into an X3 and change amps and guitars at the same time. But again, that to me is about convenience and not about tone.

I stand by the fact that the Line 6 amp modelling lets me down, the stompbox modelling lets me  down in many respects but not all (see ref to delays mainly), the QC has let me down, and the pre-amp quality of the interfaces has let me down. Line 6 hasn't let me down on value for money or convenience thats for certain, but if I take those things out of the equation then I would be using the real stomps, the real amps and the real guitars every day of the week. I think deep down most people know that to be the case.



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by Guitarzan on 2010-09-11 19:04:33

OK, the switch issue has been explained.

I own an M13 and I remember the first hour. Not impressed. Then I started tweaking and leveraging other folks suggestions based on what they learned about setting it up over the next couple of hours and guess what. That thing rocks. Easily as good a tone as stomp boxes.

Here's the thing. It's digital. There's a lot of permutations and interaction going on. It requires a bit of patience and someone who knows what they're doing. If someone doesn't fit that profile, you're probably not fit to use it. Don't buy it or return it.

But for me I'm thrilled with the tone.



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by RichRenken on 2010-09-13 03:18:11

MarkLanc wrote:

Line6Renken wrote:

MarkLanc wrote:

Firstly I am not kidding myself here.. The car analogy is not correct because no car manufacturer will tell you their car goes like a ferrari if it is a cheap city car.

Line 6 on the other hand sell me the dream that this gear is 'tank like' when I had two broken brand new units and was told by the store of other probs.

Line 6 tell me that the gear is suitable for pro applications yet to me it lets me down.

My point is a serious one and worth discussing. Firstly it is to do with poor line 6 quality control. Secondly If we are truly accepting this tone as the norm and being led to believe that its the quality and being used on pro records then we are going to have a generation of people who are accepting of this quality in the same way mp3s are the new standard.

To me the benefit of Line 6 is convenience and that is where the appeal ends. I think if you took convenience out of the equation no one would choose the line 6 tones over traditional means.

I am using this and forwarding your experience to the "powers that be". I told you above that the vendor put some switches together wrong and it results in some sticky switches. This truly bums me out. I couldn't agree more with the spirit of what you are saying about QC. I would care if you were the only guy that ran into this. We have nipped it in the bud but units were already in the field and it is not every unit.

I appreciate the sentiment.

Thank you. Like I said, I can tell you are not a troll. You want to believe and if you don't that is not on you, that is on us. Thanks again for taking the time to post your feelings. Without feedback, things don't change. I do appreciate it.



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by mikey1 on 2010-09-13 12:34:15

Somebody had to fill the endorsement void left by Dimebag. I once bought a Dimebag dime bag. Cost me twenty bucks.



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by cgtrox on 2010-09-16 22:36:50

I guess I've been lucky as far as Line6 gear breakdowns go. I own two PODxt beans, an MKI FBV shortboard, an MKI FBV Express, an MKI Spider Valve 1x12, an MKII Spider Valve 1x12, an MKII FBV shortboard and an M9. I got everything when the first run came out, maybe that's it. I got my first PODxt bean the first week they came out and it has been a rock solid workhorse since day one, same with the MKI shortboard, that thing is a tank! I've recorded several projects and CD's with the bean. The second bean I got a year or so later and it is a little different from the first, the shell looks cheaper. The MKI SV I also got the first month they announced it, and it has been great, no problems! I've had the M9 for a while, too. Got it the first week it was out, and so far it too has been solid. I don't use the distortions or overdrives on it, no need, the amp does all that for me. I also don't use the synth stuff. I only use the harmonizer, the delays, the reverbs, chorus, tremolo, flanger, etc. All the switches on it are good and never had an issue with them. I just got the MKII SV and shortboard a few weeks ago so the jury is still out on those. I use my MKI SV with the MKI shortboard and the M9 thru the loop for my main rig. I hope that Line6 fixes the problem for you cuz for me, the M9 TOTALLY kicks a$$!!

cgtrox



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by IceyVore on 2010-12-28 11:59:49

Thats exactly how I feel about some line6 products...



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by geeker on 2011-01-10 19:39:33

It has worked and it continues to work for me. The M13 replaced my X3 Live for my large venue shows where I get to use my Marshall JVM410H. That first picture is me with my M13 opening for Foreigner.... Not pro.... but simi pro..... . I used my Variax 600 in the studio many times......  The main problem I think people have with Line 6 is that they think the equipment is "for starter guitarist". That's total BS.... I remember when my band was playing a festival..... Some of the guitarists from other bands were watching me set up my gear,,,,,,,,,, and they started laughing when I pulled out my X3 Live....... they stopped laughing when I started playing (no, I'm not that great of a guitar player)...... Later that night back stage they started asking me about the X3 Live and a bunch of them went out and bought one...... to me.... it's comes down to the person tweaking the gear, not the gear.. As for faulty stuff... I have the first issued X3 Live. When the stomp pedal issue came up.... I sent it in for repairs on Line 6's dime since they gave 'em a life time warranty. I lost one of the black knobs on my X3 Live and line 6 doesn't have them for sell.... I wrote them and I was sent two of them without any charge...... I haven't had that many problems with the gear I have bought and when I did.... Line 6 stepped up and went out of their way to resolve my issues....... yes.... I'm a Line 6 "fan"....... 



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by Bluestone on 2011-01-11 15:49:43

I went back to my first CD...I used an original POD...way back...1996...(i think)

I'm not embarassed in the least..in fact..the tones I used for both bass and guitars..using the old POD....sound darn good!

Now.... my playing has certianly improved....

OM



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by RaphaBass on 2012-10-05 07:38:35

This is an old posting, I know. Can't help it though.

Debating on getting a multi-effect unit vs. separate "analogue" pedals.

Why? Tired of carrying all the weight and setting it up, checking on all the patch cables for every gig/rehearsal (yes I have a pedal board set up, still happens).

If multi it needs to be suited for bass (not cutting off low freqs) and has to be easy to use, quick to switch between patches and allow for different combinations of patches/effects pre-stored. Also I'd be great if I can tweak the different effects to my liking and store them. I'm mainly looking for standard effects like drive, octaver, chorus, reverb. It should be reliable and sturdy.

So in the end I have three options:

1. Keeping single "analogue" stomp boxes (and maybe getting smaller, better ones over time)

    - weight, carrying, limited amount of effects due to size and weight, need of checking connections/setups every time.  

    + quality of sounds, being in control

2. Getting a new mutli-effect (my choices came down to the M9 and the Zoom B3)

    - expansive, quality of sounds  

    + choice of effects, light/small to carry, tweakable custom presets

3. Finding an old, cheap multi-effect

    - quality of sounds, risk of getting ripped off, reliability  

   + price, light/small, less money thrown out if disappointed

Multi-effect means probably always compromise in sound quality, no matter what you go with, and it means high price but ideally as well convenience.

They're all mass-produced in low-wage countries, just like everything today, unless you wanna spend a fortune (i can't). Even with expansive, well made, "Western" products you can have bad luck. That's why you have warranty and bring it back until you have one that works. That's just how it is. It really sucks, but unfortunately we already have arrived in the age of MP3 and China-made products. Wake up! Can't turn the wheel back unless you seriously start a revolution (count me in).

I own an FM4, bought second-hand on Craigs and it hasn't let me down ever. Yes tracking of some of the effects sucks but unless you're willing to spend a fortune fo each single effect you'd always have that problem.

If you don't trust Line6 what other brand would you recommend then? Zoom? DigiTech? Korg?

This post/forum doesn't help me at all in my decision!



Re: M9 a BIG LET DOWN -most line 6 products let me down in the end
by phil_m on 2012-10-05 08:01:11

Can't comment on the Zoom, but I think the M-series pedals are some of the more robust things that Line 6 has made over the years. My M13 has been on my board for over 4 years now, and I've not had any problems at all with it. The only other multi-FX I've tried relatively recently were the Boss ME-70 and the TC Electronic Nova System. The Boss pedal was built like a tank, but ultimately, it wasn't anywhere near as easy to get the sounds I wanted. I was also not really setup to work very well for someone who makes changes on the fly. The Nova System sounded pretty good, but again, it was a pain to dial in.

I guess that's why I keep coming back to Line 6. They seem to be one of the few multi-FX companies who actually take the idea of ergonomics seriously.




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