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Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by ncreed on 2010-10-16 17:40:43

Has anyone else got a electronic harmonic with the 500. It is like a low volume octave that I hear between the note B to around G on the forth and third string in the 9th to 12th fret. It is on the Dr Z, both Voxes and the Deluxe. I haven't heard it on any other settings. This is with just the amp and no other effects on. I hope this isn't normal because I really like those models. Thanks for your help.



Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by timowens on 2010-10-16 18:14:47

Could these be ghost notes? You can hear them in the X3 also, Line 6 claims that they are part of the actual amp that was modeled and that is why they are there.



Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by ncreed on 2010-10-16 18:20:48

I didn't hear them in the X3. They are fairly loud. I hope they are not supposed to be there as it is distracting. Anyone else notice it.



Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by timowens on 2010-10-16 18:24:13

I don't have an HD but I do have an X3L and I've heard the ghost notes in it. Is it possible for you to post a sound clip?



Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by ozbadman on 2010-10-16 18:25:42

I had some higher-pitched sounds in the X3L that I wasn't happy with, but didn't hear them until plugged into a P.A. I could barely detect them on headphones but on a P.A., it was shrill and horrible.

Unfortunately, I only have headphones and a small Acoustic amp here. But, maybe you culd post an example setup, like Amp with its settings, and if you play, say, an A on the 6th string you here it. It might give us a better feel for what you're hearing and whether it's supposed to be there.

Cheers,

David.



Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by ncreed on 2010-10-16 19:22:39

It mainly occurs between the B on the 9th fret d string and the Gb on the 11th fret g string. It also happens on these notes in other places on the fretboard.I uploaded the worst example to Customtone.http://line6.com/customtone/tone/208124/ I can hear it with the overdrive off, but it gets worse with it on. It occurs on the dr z, both voxes and the Deluxe models. I don't have a way to record a sample. Thanks for your help.



Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by Singing_Heaven on 2010-10-16 20:10:15

I wish you would post the sound sample...

are you sure you aren't making harmonics with your palm as you play? a lot of times when gear and good speakers are introduced to the player they tend to hear things in their playing they miss when using headphones that muddy the sound at home because they are consumer and enhance the bass and high frequncies such as sony etc... once players are in good clean gear they start to hear the harmonics they may make without realizing when the palm is hovering the strings..

just a thought anyway

post a sound byte. I don't want to buy the hd500 if it might have some mathimatical errors somewhere in the models

EDIT - low fret clearance? try another guitar as well to confirm.

thanks for the info



Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by timowens on 2010-10-16 21:08:58

Here is another thread with a sample of the ghost notes, is this what you are hearing? Maybe someone with an HD can record a sound clip? http://line6.com/community/message/136670



Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by cGil on 2010-10-16 22:57:49

Ghost notes?     Fresh caps that haven't "formed" (burn-in is 100hrs on Sozo caps, for example) can sound pretty nasty, too; almost as bad as a fresh speaker, as they both do nastiness to the high end.   But both are obvious nasties.   Ghost notes are kinda tricky, and it means there's gotta be some seriously good ears hanging around this place to catch ghost notes!  Not to mention a seriously accurate modeler to pull it off!

So they modeled amps with poor filtering (Dr. Z) or just plain worn out and/or drifted below spec power supply filter caps?   Oh great!  And ya know that's just SO easy to fix with a quality cap swap.     But what they hey, if Dr. Z does it on purpose, and those things DO sell for a pretty penny, who'm I to judge.  Right?  

Anyway, since the genuine article of the fugly odd harmonic ghost notes typically happen when power tubes (with poor PS filtering) are cranked way up, try turning the gain or preamp of the model down just a hair, or till the power amp half of the model stops with the spooky biz.   I'd be all over this right now, if I only had my HD500 to investigate it.   And oh how I'm hating GC right now for making me wait.  Tuesday isn't soon enough cuz all these zircon encrusted, golden ear'd tone details have me swimmin' in seriously deep drool already.   Arrrgh.

Gil...



Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by Crusty_Old_Rocker on 2010-10-16 23:31:06

The ghost notes actually contribute to the authentic sound.  I have played a lot of Vox AC30s and some original Fender Deluxe amps and those under tones are definitely in there and are part of the character of those amps.

Cheers,

Crusty



Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by Crusty_Old_Rocker on 2010-10-16 23:33:25

ncreed wrote:

I didn't hear them in the X3. They are fairly loud. I hope they are not supposed to be there as it is distracting. Anyone else notice it.

The are most definitely in the POD X3 and the PODxt.  Line 6 have always modelled all characteristics of the amps.

Take a closer listen to the Vox and very early small Fender models like the deluxe and champ in the POD X3.  You'll hear them and there are many posts on the forum regarding the ghost notes modelled in the PODxt and POD X3 series devices.

Cheers,

Crusty



Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by Singing_Heaven on 2010-10-17 04:13:49

Well I can confirm after reading the other thread and listening to the ghost sample that my X3 does have them and they can definitley bugger up a harmony you may be working on. From a search on Google I have found that these ghost notes happen in amps with power supplies that are weaker and this create the unwanted secondary note. The example posted in the other thread is a very clean tone and the second note is almost as loud as the guitar note.

I found a post in another modeller forum and they stated they don't use amps that have ghost notes in them to model as they consider the amp to be faulty and they repair the power supplies in any amp to ensure there is no ghosting in their modellers...

So how many amps are we talking about here that have these bugger second notes? I would think that these older amps would be listened to enough to ensure these uncontrolled secondary notes would be non existant. I know people claim this adds charactre to an amp but listen to the sample mp3 and you can hear that is adds a second note that is uncontrolled and out of key for many projects...

this could explain why some amps sounded muddy on some tunes? something to look for when tracking I guess. ahh well I still love my x3 and the HD when it comes...



Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by ncreed on 2010-10-17 06:30:59

I don't know if it is ghost notes though because it is the same notes in four different amps. Its also like an octave down harmonic, like the bass octaver is on really low. I have tried three different guitars to eliminate the fret noise possibility. I also tried two different powered monitors and headphones. I think their maybe something wrong with the unit. I've played PODs since the original bean and I've never heard anything like this. I'll see if I can find a way to record a sample. Thank you all for your help.



Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by ncreed on 2010-10-17 08:14:20

I hope this works. Here is a sample of the problem http://www.4shared.com/audio/ZXiiFI-H/hd500.html. Of course you can barely hear it in the recording, but is there. The first one is just the amp and the last part has the tube screamer on. You can hear it better on without the pedal on the recording, but in reality it seems worse with the pedal on here in the real world. I know it isn't real loud here, but it does seem worse through headphones and through the monitors. Thanks again



Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by Singing_Heaven on 2010-10-17 10:08:09

hey that sounds like Intermodulation and it's a charactistic of the amps and it's a good thing. To be honest the sound you posted sounds great as the frequencies are in line with your notes. Ghost frequencies however are undesirable because they are harmonically unrelated. The noise you may be hearing could even be the cab emulation...

Anyway I would totally be happy with that sound compared to what the guy had in the other post.

Here is the sound he has on a clean amp on his X3

http://line6.com/community/servlet/JiveServlet/download/133931-8085/Output%201-2.mp3

http://line6.com/community/servlet/JiveServlet/download/134303-8105/Output%201-2.mp3

If you can't hear it then turn up your bass. This is horrid!!

Original post if links don't work

http://line6.com/community/message/136670#136670



Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by timowens on 2010-10-17 13:41:32

When I first listened to your audio sample I thought it was ghost notes but after listening a few times I'm not 100% sure. It would be interesting to hear something from one of the Line 6 rep's on this one, I bet they say it is ghost notes.



Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by phil_m on 2010-10-17 13:52:45

Could this be result of having the wrong setting for the AC frequency parameter described on page 2-4 of the advanced user's guide?

AC Frequency (Knob 3): The HD Amp Models within POD HD500 include simulation of AC hum typical of the AC Vacuum Tube Heater component, which is an important part of the tonality of a tube amplifier. We’ve provided the option here to set the AC Rate to match that of the USA (60Hz) or UK (50Hz) frequency for authenticity. (This setting may be subtle depending on the current Amp Model settings, and may be more apparent when synchronizing this setting with the AC rate of any tube amplifier that POD HD500 may be plugged into.)


Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by ncreed on 2010-10-17 16:17:41

Tried changing the AC frequency. It didn't make the sound stop it did however change its pitch. Changing it to 50 seemed to move the pitch off the sound up around a step. Pretty weird. The sound isn't musical at all. It sounds more like an old synth than a guitar. Like I said earlier it is way more noticable in person than in what I recorded, free software and all. I am going to call AMS tech support tommorrow and see what they say. On different note I would like to thank everyone for their help. You guys are great. Any more suggestions are welcolme.



Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by philGre on 2010-10-18 12:54:36

Hi,

I had the same as you yesterday on a J-45 when putting some drive and even more with an overdrive (tube screamer) in front

I'm on 50hz setting, (and 50hz power supply), listening through headphones. I did not try to change anything, but it sounded rather bad indeed, harmonics not aligned with the note. I noticed the level of these harmonics vary a bit with microphone selected, certainly because some emphasize the frequency where the note happens.

I heard it the most around 12th fret and 3 first strings, but also below, though less noticeable.

Looking forward to see any answer to this, might be a future firmware, who knows...

Cheers

Philippe



Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by ncreed on 2010-10-18 14:48:43

Glad to know I'm not crazy. I heard it on the 45 model last night as well. I called AMS today and it is going back for a replacement. I hope that one doesn't do the same thing.



Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by harmaes on 2010-10-19 02:26:32

I have had the exact same experience. This fizzyness made me return the HD500 within the period of 14 days.

I liked the responsiveness and dynamics on the HD but this noise becomes very annoying.

I've decided to stick with the X3L and wait until these issues get ironed out.



Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by harmaes on 2010-10-19 02:39:28

I can hear this fizzyness also in here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-C7TbcEglY



Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by DrugDM on 2010-10-19 09:01:57

Hello. I have am a new owner of the HD 500 and experienced the same problem. I recently read a post that discussed putting the noise gate in the front of the chain and that solved my problem.  For some reason if you put the noise gate after the amp it appears to be less effective than at the beginning of the signal chain which is not what you would expect if you would use a traditional set-up.  Hope this helps.



Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by philGre on 2010-10-19 13:30:02

just a stupid idea : I noticed this "ghost note" came mostly on 3rd string and above 12th string, and started to wonder if it could noy be linked to a bad harmonics setting on the guitar?

If the effect depends so strongly on the place where you play it, that could make sense (I did not get the same ghost note playing for instance 4 frames below on 2nd string though playing the same notes...

what do you think guys?

regarding the fact to go for a replacement, well, I'm not sure it could be linked to a bad model given the number we see, I'd rather see this harmonics story or a firmware update to fix that (IMHO)



Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by ncreed on 2010-10-19 16:20:51

I unboxed mine today to try the noise gate idea. It didn't make any difference on the "noise". The only reason I really think there is something wrong is because it is the same few notes on several amp models. If the harmonics were modeled from the actual amps it seems like it would be on different notes on each amp. But I could be wrong and according to my wife usually am.



Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by harmaes on 2010-10-19 23:04:43

These are not ghost notes IMO. I had the issue with my Variax 700 on the HD500 but it does not occur with the X3L.  I would love a reply from the users who've had the HD for a while/as beta tester. Do you also hear this fizzy, rattly sound. A good trial is a twin reverb: with the drive to 0 I don't hear it, turn it slightly up it starts to appear. This is very noticeable with headphones. Btw, I don't have the HD anymore so can't make any test with it.



Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by frenchfries on 2010-10-20 23:26:57

It might be digital aliasing. I've owned a dozen of modelers until now and each of them (regardless of its brand) was/is able to produce digital aliasing in some cases. It's an embedded part of the digital stuff, exactly like hiss and hum are linked to the analog world. :-)



Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by Mooseboy08 on 2011-01-03 04:00:15

Wow, am I ever glad that I found this post!

I'm a new HD400 user and I noticed this same problem. It occurs for me when I get close to A440, and to my ears, it sounds like digital aliasing. I'll be following this thread with great interest.



Re: Weird noise in Pod HD 500
by evand67 on 2013-02-02 02:11:49

Yeah,....I love the pod tones, have had everything from the first bean to the xt to the x3 and now the hd500...it's gotten better, but on certain amps,(dr z, ac 30 mainly)  the aliasing comes out really bad...I only notice it on high notes,..but it's enough to drive you batty...but,..I just try to stick to patches that seem to do better....the plexi tone is great,..there's a tiny bit of it,..but it's negligible...when it gets really audible, it sucks...you can get it with digital delay units too..it's the worst...but, I still love the pod...it's the only way to play at night and not wake the neighbors!!...I have never tried axe fx..I wonder if they have solved this problem?...I'd almost spend the money on it if that was the case....but I'd imagine it has aliasing too...




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