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POD HD300 Dual mode sounding horrible!
by korn568 on 2010-11-04 06:49:14

Hello People, my first post here.  I've been using "Pods" for about 8 years now, just bought the HD300 a few weeks ago and still can't figure out the dual output mode (selectable via the three-way switch in the back), I think it's got a bug or sth.. When I select the "DUAL" mode, the unit is supposed to send LIVE signal to the left outputs (both balanced and unbalanced) and STUDIO signal to both the right outputs. I plug my tube PA into the left unbalanced output, and that goes into speaker cabs (with guitar speakers). With the 3-way switch in the "LIVE" position everything sounds good, but when I switch it to "DUAL", not only does it lower the volume(not a real problem), but it also changes the sound to become much worse (as if something changed in the cab simulation on the POD). Well, I just wondered whether someone else also experienced this problem.. A gig is coming next week and I'm wondering if I'll be able to use the right balanced output to send to the house pa system and the left unbalanced output to my onstage rig.  Thanks, Corn.



Re: POD HD300 Dual mode sounding horrible!
by Rowbi on 2010-11-04 09:05:15

not sure if the 300 is different, but on my HD400 dual means the balanced outputs are studio, and the unbalanced outputs are live....



Re: POD HD300 Dual mode sounding horrible!
by silverhead on 2010-11-04 09:16:17

I haven't actually tried this on my HD400, and I had expected it to work the way you say, Rowbi. I'm glad to hear that it actually does work that way - like the X3 Live.

Nonetheless, Korn568 is correct - the manual does describe it as he indicates:

DUAL Mode: This option offers more performance flexibility, routing the LIVE Mode signal to the left BALANCED and UNBALANCED outputs and a great sounding mic’d amp tone to the right outputs. This allows you to send a mono signal tailored for a guitar amp, while simultaneously routing a mono mic’d cab signal to a mixer or recorder!

That suggests the manual is wrong in this respect - presumably the HD300 also works the way the 400 does, in which case Korn568 you can hopefully do what you want by connecting things as Rowbi says.



Re: POD HD300 Dual mode sounding horrible!
by korn568 on 2010-11-04 10:49:49

Hey Guys, thanks for the answers!

Unfortunately, even if the manual were wrong and the switch worked as you've described it won't do me any good: only in the "LIVE" position does the PODHD300 sound good. The DUAL mode (middle position of the 3-way switch) alters the "LIVE" sound (left output) even though it shouldn't, it creates sort of a third voicing, it doesn't sound like the LIVE setting, but it also doesn't sound like "STUDIO". I experimented a lot, with many different settings, etc. We're talking about the LEFT unbalanced output. Any ideas? My guess is that the unit doesn't have enough computing power to process both modes independently, so when you go into "dual" it actually produces a STUDIO sound that is sent directly to RIGHT outputs and modified with some filter and sent to LEFT.

Maybe you could perform this simple experiment as well? Connect your POD HD to an amp using the left unbalanced output, put the switch in the "LIVE" position, play and listen to the sound and then put the switch in the middle position - hear anything change? Not only a significant volume drop but also a different voicing? It's heard specifically well on higain models (like the Rectifier).

Thanks,

Cornell.



Re: POD HD300 Dual mode sounding horrible!
by silverhead on 2010-11-04 10:52:46

Just so you know, the volume drop is to be expected and is not a fault - easily adjusted at the output device.

As for the voicing change - I will try that later.



Re: POD HD300 Dual mode sounding horrible!
by Rowbi on 2010-11-04 12:38:04

korn568 wrote:

My guess is that the unit doesn't have enough computing power to process both modes independently, so when you go into "dual" it actually produces a STUDIO sound that is sent directly to RIGHT outputs and modified with some filter and sent to LEFT.

It seems to work fine on my HD400.

I think your idea about it not having enough power isn't true.  L6 aren't stupid, and they wouldn't have made a unit that blatently can't process what it's meant to.  there shouldn't be any situation that you can get into with an HD300 or HD400 that wont work because the DSP isn't enough.  also, it's not running a dual tone, it's the same tone with all of it for studio, and something stipped off for live outputs.  that something has always been a secret that Line 6 wont share, as it's been asked before about other PODs and it's like part of their modelling, and how they do it...

I'm sure someone will jump in soon with a definate answer..

in the meantime, try the right output see how that sounds..... it could of course be a faulty switch??



Re: POD HD300 Dual mode sounding horrible!
by spaceatl on 2010-11-04 14:12:29

I think each side is a mono summation...I have not had the time to verify that, but it isn't all that difficult...

makes sense that the volume level might change a bit between modes...Not sure how much that really matters though...I don't really plan on changing that switch during a gig or performance...there is also a soft menu output mode changes how this the live/dual mode is voiced...You have some options there...but that doesn't change the studio direct...only the live side of dual and live modes...

Have you tried summing the left and right unbalanced outs mono in live mode and then comparing that to the left (live) unbalanced out in dual mode...That seems like what should be compared here...That is, if the dual mode is really a mono sum...I think it is...ping pong delay should verify that pretty quick for you...



Re: POD HD300 Dual mode sounding horrible!
by korn568 on 2010-11-05 00:21:21

Hi!

As far as the summation goes - the ping pong delay experiment clearly shows that:

1. When you use only the left output, the signal IS the summation of two channels.

2. Only when both jacks are used (L&R) will the unit send stereo signal.

3. As I had written in my first post, the volume drop is not a real problem at all, the problem is with the voicing.

4. In Dual Mode, the right unbalanced seems to work fine, sending "studio"  sound.

Eventually, I solved the mystery by doing this:

(drum roll)

I plug anything (an fx interconnection mono cable in my case, as this was at hand) into the right unbalanced and it fixes the LEFT sound completely! So you actually need to plug something into the right unbalanced as well to trick the unit. But it works, so it's fine with me, no real inconvenience, just one more thing to remember before a gig.

So thanks for your help, I wonder if it's the same case with other models/units.

Thnaks again,

Cornell.



Re: POD HD300 Dual mode sounding horrible!
by soundhog on 2010-11-05 14:21:08

Hi Guys,

Not sure if all questions have been answered here, but a few notes...

The DUAL MODE description in the HD300 & HD400 Advanced Guides states that the LIVE signal is fed to the left outs and "a great sounding mic’d amp tone to the right outputs." I was specifically asked to word it this way since the right signal is technically NOT the same as the STUDIO mode signal (sorry, but I forget what exactly differs - it is similar but not exactly the same, but certianly should not intentionally sound bad!)

The LIVE mode signal (whether the back panel switch is set to LIVE or DUAL) is also affected by your settings in the SETUP - LIVE menu (ComboFrt, StackAmp, etc.).

I think the trick to plug a "dummy" cable into the unused output jack may be a solution here if you are not using both outputs same pair. The output jacks are intended to switch to mono when only one is used. I don't know that there is any way other way to over-ride that mono summing when using only one output jack. I think that Line 6's thought was that you'd prefer a mono signal when only using one jack, so that none of your potentially stereo tone would be "lost" - although summing to mono may not always create the exact result you want. Probably better to create the Preset as a mono one to begin with so that a mono output would not affect it.

Does that help?



Re: POD HD300 Dual mode sounding horrible!
by korn568 on 2010-11-05 17:05:39

Well, this is totally new stuff for me, i.e. that the right output in dual mode is actually NOT the same as studio sound. Well, I just hope that the sound tech at the gig won't complain too much and that the crowds will go wild enough



Re: POD HD300 Dual mode sounding horrible!
by soundhog on 2010-11-06 06:23:18

"Well, this is totally new stuff for me, i.e. that the right output in  dual mode is actually NOT the same as studio sound"

Best to think of the Dual Mode's right output still as simply a slightly different "Studio" output. It is not an identical processed tone as the Studio setting, but rather a slight variation that is still intended for the same type of use (for recording, FOH, into a mixer, etc.) I doubt you'd have any problem still tweaking to get the tone you are after!



Re: POD HD300 Dual mode sounding horrible!
by marting79 on 2011-07-27 18:12:50

Hi there, I´ve just tried to use dual mode in my HD300 and find out this "thing" you mention... and after reading your post some questions came into my mind...

As for the dummy cable... let´s call it "workarround"... is there any chance this will be fixed with a firmware upgrade???, because... come on... really... it is not very neat solution... most people use dual mode as korn568 says, XLR to the mixer and one Live out to the amp... (as the manual says)... and it really doesn´t sound good at all if you´re not doing this shameful workarround....

Also, I´d like to know this dual mode issue doesn´t happen in 500 (reading the manual, I think it doesn´t... but just to be sure, ´cause reading the HD300 manual I also thought that I won´t have that issue)... and also that in a live situation using live and XLR outputs I can make the REAL studio signal get to the mixer while getting the REAL live signal to the amp...

Maybe it´s time for me to upgrade to a 500... I´ve used X3 Live for a long time and never had any problems like this.

Thanks!

M



Re: POD HD300 Dual mode sounding horrible!
by LewisBrunton on 2011-07-28 07:38:08

The HD500 doesn't actually have a Dual mode which is a big problem. From investigations done on this forum there doesn't appear to be a way to approximate it either.

Unless someone from Line 6 can tell me otherwise that is.....

Lewis



Re: POD HD300 Dual mode sounding horrible!
by ha1nz on 2011-12-01 04:14:13

Hi there,

will I also have to plug a dummy into the left balanced XLR to get my right balanced XLR set up for FOH with

this cover version of a studio signal?

Many thanks and regards,

Sebastian




The information above may not be current, and you should direct questions to the current forum or review the manual.