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Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by jdolby on 2010-11-16 15:47:18

I've had my 500 for a couple of weeks and have only recently started to explore it.

I plugged my home-made 212 cabinet (8 ohms) with Eminence Red Coats into the back of my AR112-50, turned off the Atomic's internal speaker and set the HD500 output mode to Combo PWRAMP.  I get KILLER tones from this rig if I use the PRE models and turn off the cab sims.  In fact, even my wife commented how great it sounded.  I was never able to get sounds this rich from the X3 Pro - and so easily to boot.

I'm going to pull the amp out of the Atomic and build a little box for it - similar to the new Atomic Mono Block.  I'm selling my X3 Pro and FBV and the funds from that will go towards a new 412 cabinet from Avatar, me thinks.

LOVING the HD500!

rig.jpg



Re: Atomic 112-50 a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by jdalf59 on 2010-11-16 18:39:46

Thats sweet, is your diy cab open back or closed?

I'm thinking about doing something similiar with an atomic 18 watt i have. The 18 watter has an extra output from the transformer that works, I have an eminence wizard and a celestion v30 I'm going to put in a cab and put the power amp assembly in a head.



Re: Atomic 112-50 a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by cGil on 2010-11-16 18:46:04

4 thumbs on that cab.  Sweet!

Gil...



Re: Atomic 112-50 a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by jdolby on 2010-11-16 18:57:40

The cab is currently a closed back, but if I were to remove the middle piece of wood on the back (there are three equally sized pieces) it becomes an open back cab.  I basically copied the dimensions and design from Avatar.  It sounds great.

One speaker is a Governor and the other is a Man-o-war - both Eminence.



Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by mr_slugworth on 2010-11-16 19:48:31

jdolby wrote:


...
In fact, even my wife commented how great it sounded.
...

If your wife is anything like mine, this is easily the most impressive part of your post. 



Re: Atomic 112-50 a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by stumpsout on 2010-11-16 20:06:33

I have an  Atomic 18 watt amp...why is it that it doesn't sound as good as your setup here? Is it that the speaker or the cabinet in the Atomic is not as good?

I played the HD 500 with my Traynor 50 watt just plugged into the FX loop to use the poweramp only..and it sounded killer with the HD500 set to poweramp combo.

But the Atomic was not nearly as good in this mode. Studio/Direct was the best for Atomic, but still not as good as the other Traynor setup I mentioned.



Re: Atomic 112-50 a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by jdolby on 2010-11-16 20:40:45

stumpsout,

I think, in your case, it has to be the modeling speaker in the Atomic.  My 112-50 sounds a little harsh on its own in the Combo PWRAMP mode, too.

Does the 18 watt Atomic allow you to plug another speaker into it while disabling its internal speaker?  I urge you to try it, if so.  Make sure your speaker impedance matches the Atomic's output.

Another trick would be to throw a Vintage 30 into your Atomic.  I did this to my 112-50 and was using it as a powered extension cab connected to the effects send of my Traynor YCS-50.  I put the original speaker back in only because I had thoughts about selling the Atomic at some point.

Hey, there's a thought!  I might just put the Vintage 30 back in the Atomic!



Re: Atomic 112-50 a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by jdolby on 2010-11-16 20:51:37

stumpsout,

For the price of a new speaker you could end up with a really killer stereo rig if you like it.  Just a thought.



Re: Atomic 112-50 a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by ozbadman on 2010-11-16 20:58:48

Actually, Atomic amps (and by that I mean the speakers that come with atomic amps) are designed to be FRFR (they have tweeters). Combo amps are not FRFR. So, to compensate, when you select "ComboAmp" output on the HD500, it boosts the higher end. If you do that into a FRFR system, you're going to end up with a lot of treble. So, for FRFR systems like Atomics, the "correct" output mode setting is Direct.

David.



Re: Atomic 112-50 a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by cGil on 2010-11-16 21:02:55

fwiw, I've found EV12L's to be superb with modelers, and especially with this new HD500.  I run in studio mode through a Peavey Classic 50/50, and the cab models are very satisfyingly accurate to my ears.    And I have a room full of great speakers to compare it to including Heritage G12M, Heritage G12H30, Alnico Blue, Vintage 30's, and Jensen P10r's, among others.

Gil...



Re: Atomic 112-50 a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by jdolby on 2010-11-16 21:03:33

ozbadman,

Not in this case.  Both the Atomic 112-18 and 112-50 have no tweeters and are not FRFR.  They're the original Atomic amps.



Re: Atomic 112-50 a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by stumpsout on 2010-11-16 22:17:02

jdolby wrote:

stumpsout,

I think, in your case, it has to be the modeling speaker in the Atomic.  My 112-50 sounds a little harsh on its own in the Combo PWRAMP mode, too.

Does the 18 watt Atomic allow you to plug another speaker into it while disabling its internal speaker?  I urge you to try it, if so.  Make sure your speaker impedance matches the Atomic's output.

Another trick would be to throw a Vintage 30 into your Atomic.  I did this to my 112-50 and was using it as a powered extension cab connected to the effects send of my Traynor YCS-50.  I put the original speaker back in only because I had thoughts about selling the Atomic at some point.

Hey, there's a thought!  I might just put the Vintage 30 back in the Atomic!

Good stuff, thanks.

There is no disabling the internal speaker while plugging in an external speaker, but I do have a Vintage 30 speaker sitting here to try swapping.

Okay, here comes the noobular side of me..

The Atomic speaker says 8 Ohms 150 watts

The Celestion Vintage 30 says 8 Ohms and has a 50 on it..it's from a 50 watt amp.

Is that going to likely be fine...or maybe not?



Re: Atomic 112-50 a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by ozbadman on 2010-11-16 23:11:56

Well there you go. Slap my bottom and call me Nancy



Re: Atomic 112-50 a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by jdalf59 on 2010-11-17 04:13:55

a V30 will be fine in the 18 watter, and will probably be louder than the stock speaker

If you are handy with speaker wire, switches and speaker jacks, you could modify the atomic for an external speaker out

On the left side of the inner docking station area is a silver box with a 4 pin connector. only 2 pins have wires coming out  (red and black)and they go to your speaker. The 2 unused pins will power a speaker, I've been doing it for awhile. I can use the atomic cab and an external 8 ohm speaker together

I aksed on the fractal website and emailed support  if this would work, but never got an answer, so did it anyways

I'm planning on taking the power amp out and building a head for it , i think it might play well with the HD when I get it

I'm just a house hack, Gil is the Amp Expert here



Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2010-11-17 05:08:05

jdolby wrote:

I'm going to pull the amp out of the Atomic and build a little box for it - similar to the new Atomic Mono Block.  I'm selling my X3 Pro and FBV and the funds from that will go towards a new 412 cabinet from Avatar, me thinks.

All of that sounds like an excellent plan.  Are you going for the G412 Vintage?  I have one with Hellatone 60's and T75's in it, ala Uberkab.  It is divine.



Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by jdolby on 2010-11-17 10:59:15

Karl,

I'm probably more likely to buy the G412 Traditional with Hellatone 60's and T75's.

I still need to sell my X3 Pro and FBV before my cabinet purchase can happen, though.  Any ideas what $$$ I should ask them for?  They're both spotless.



Re: Atomic 112-50 a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by jeffwatt on 2010-11-17 11:03:14

Hey jdolby and stumpsout,

I also have an Atomic 18 watter, and have been falling a bit out of love with it lately when pairing it with the HD500 because of the lack of high frequency reproduction (for some reason it wasn't as much an issue for me with the X3). However, I find this idea of changing out the speaker very intriguing!

I'm *very* interested in hearing about any sonic improvement you might notice after switching out the stock speaker for the Celestion Vintage 30, and if you prefer it with Studio or Combo mode. Have you tried it yet?

Alternatively, might there be a way to add a tweeter to the 112-18? Gil?



Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by johandovelius on 2010-11-17 11:12:39

Back to the Atomic amps!

I have two Atomics for stereo – one 112 and one 212. I have just bought the HD500 and are trying to find out about the best combinations:

- Output: Direct or Combo front or Combo Power Amp (yes, it is a power amp)?

- Pre or not pre amp models?

I have tried different combinations, and different amps sound good in some combinations, others in other combinations. I find it difficult to find the overall best configuration here.

I think I go for Direct output and no pre amp models as my general principle, as it gives me most options to tweek the sounds. And also, I guess most of the customtone patches you guys upload will use no pre amp.

But I will happily take advice here. Maybe I miss something in my lonesome tweeking

Ivve



Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2010-11-17 11:52:45

johandovelius wrote:

I have tried different combinations, and different amps sound good in some combinations, others in other combinations. I find it difficult to find the overall best configuration here.

Maybe I miss something in my lonesome tweeking

I don't think you're missing anything.  This is a problem with the original Atomic Reactors that aren't built for FR (i.e. - don't have a tweeter).  The cab/speaker design is somewhere in between full range and guitar cab.  And because of that, any output mode you try is going to leave you wanting.  Using the HD with just the preamps and no speaker simulation won't sound quite right because the Atomic cab isn't a traditional guitar cab.  And using the HD with full models and cab simulations won't sound quite right because it isn't quite full range and it will sound like a blanket over the speakers.

Do you find it at all telling that Atomic no longer manufactures the original Reactor series, instead concentrating on the Reactor FR line?  They did that because the Fractal users wanted a full range setup that showed off the cab models and more pristine effects of the Axe-Fx.



Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2010-11-17 12:04:39

jdolby wrote:

I'm probably more likely to buy the G412 Traditional with Hellatone 60's and T75's.

You like the looks of the traditional cab more?  Personal preference, I guess.   I like the look of the Vintage just because it looks like a Bogner cab.

I still need to sell my X3 Pro and FBV before my cabinet purchase can happen, though.  Any ideas what $$$ I should ask them for?  They're both spotless.

I'm seeing used X3 Pros on eBay going for $400 max.  Factory sealed ones are going for about $500.  FBV or FBVSB?  The shortys are going for around $100.



Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by jdolby on 2010-11-17 12:21:43

Karl,

It's not the look, it's the weight.  I love the look of the vintage cabs, but I'm gettin' old.

JD



Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2010-11-17 12:32:24

Difference in weight looks to be about 10 lbs.  At those total weights, not much difference at all.   Just book an extra chiropractor appointment.   And make sure you get casters.



Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by jdolby on 2010-11-17 12:48:13

I owned a Traynor YCS-50 112 combo amp at the time I had my Vintage 30 installed in the Atomic.  I was running the effect send of the Traynor to the return on the back of the Atomic and it sounded exactly like the Traynor.  The Traynor had a Vintage 30 and a 6L6 tube power section, also.  That scenario is, in effect, just like running any POD HD500 preamp model, with the speaker sims off, to the Atomic.  Combo/Stack PWRAMP mode strips the mic and 'air' from the sound.

The thing with the non-FRFR Atomics, to me, is the speaker.  It's kind of a cross between a full-range speaker and guitar speaker.  Some tones sound amazing and some sound harsh.  I decided long ago to give up on amplifying Studio Direct mode.  I want a LIVE sound and feel when I'm standing on stage and I think the old Atomics are perfect for that - with a speaker change.

But, that's just me.  You have to experiment.



Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by johandovelius on 2010-11-17 12:55:51

Thanks, Karl!

I understand what you mean. I experience either to much bass or a bit too bright sound. If I choose the Combo Front or Power Amp output mode, I easily get a terrible treble digital distortion sound when using overdrive on some amp models. I have tried another hour now, and will definitely go for the Direct output, meaning I have to adjust the bass with an eq on some amp models.

But still, hey, I can hear the potential. It is wonderful to play



Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by johandovelius on 2010-11-17 12:58:19

Yeah, it is just to experiment. And you just made me think of changing the speakers. Hmmm, I have to give that a thought.



Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by stumpsout on 2010-11-17 13:06:27

I got the Celestion attached the the speaker wire leads in the Atomic 18...but it won't fit in the opening..the speaker is a little wide.

I'm guessing I have to router the hole bigger

Also, the screws aren't big enough to hold the Celestion in...crap..I thought it would fit.



Re: Atomic 112-50 a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by cGil on 2010-11-17 15:51:52

Expert?  Hardly.  Crispy rust bucket's more like it.  I was lucky to find the shoulders-of-giants to peek over to get me stumbling back into the game is all.  But adding a jack that'll disconnect the internal speaker when an external cab is plugged in, is relatively easy. 

Use a switched-mono 1/4" phone jack.  First, connect the OT's output ground wire to the jack ground lug, and extend that (add wire) to connect it to the speaker's ground lug.  

Run the OT's output hot wire (the red one) to the tip lug of the jack.  Run a new wire from the switch lug (the tip's switched lug if using a Cliff Jack, or just THE switch lug if using a Switchcraft jack) to the speaker's hot connector.   This will connect the internal speaker to the amp through the jack when nothing is plugged in, so be sure to keep that jack clean and well maintained for best tone.  DeOxit D or G-series spray (formerly ProGold) is excellent for this job) 

Simply swapping out the speaker should be a straightforward affair if quick connects are used on the OT wires.   If so, try to spread the quick connect crip apart so it'll slide off the speaker lugs easily.  Crimp them gently with pliers before reinstalling and make sure there's a snug fit.    Personally, in terms of 12" drivers anyway, I prefer a single 20w greenback with my 18watt Marshall clone, but I moved that to a closed back cab cuz it sounded so much better in there.   I've also run a 15watt Alnico Blue.  Currently I run a G12H-30w bass cone in that combo now.  It's louder.  None has shown any sign of danger toward burning up the voice coil, and they've all survived it just fine.   That Vintage 30 is rated for 60 watt, and will have no trouble with anything an 18watter can throw at it. 

Gil...



Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by cGil on 2010-11-17 15:53:31

Bummer on the speaker swap.   Don't ya just hate those oddball speakers! 

Gil...



Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by stumpsout on 2010-11-17 16:10:42

thanks for confirming that, man

I thought I was guitarded or something

ya, it looks like I won't be able to do it



Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by stumpsout on 2010-11-17 16:31:14

I tried the Eminence Patriot speaker I had put in the Traynor and it DID fit in the Atomic.

The Traynor's Celestion is the oddball.

YAY!



Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by jdolby on 2010-11-17 18:35:45

How did the Patriot sound?



Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by stumpsout on 2010-11-17 19:16:33

It sucked

The original Atomic speaker was better. The Patriot was very mid heavy and low on bass relative to the others. Louder though, and clearer actually.

It was like playing a goose...didn't feel right to me.

The best was the Celestion back in the Traynor plugged into the FX return with the HD500 in Poweramp Combo mod



Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by jdolby on 2010-11-17 19:31:27

LOL.  I was just looking at your status: "about to nuke both my Atomics" and thought, "oh, no!" I hope he doesn't hold me responsible.

Did you use a "pre" model with the cab sim turned off and combo pwramp?



Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by stumpsout on 2010-11-17 19:46:43

Oh yeah, forgot to mention that.

Hehe the Atomics are on thin ice already, not your fault

Definately "pre" models and cabs turned off, Poweramp Combo output mode.

This is the way I am planning to go mainly..just a question of which tube amp I'll end up going with.

My strat through the Marshall Pre was enough to convince me right there.

The DT50 amp is on that list of options....someday when it gets up here to Canada

Or amps...stereo dual amps is nice allright....but then there's the question of micing and going to the main board through the PA.

I hope there will be an update to allow the XLR outs to be Studio/ Direct and the 1/4 inch outs to be Poweramp Combo!



Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by artar on 2013-01-19 02:14:43

Hi,

I have the HD500 + 2 Atomic 112 50.

I changed the original speaker for a Celesion Greenback Heritage G12M.

And WOW ! Now i'm verry happy with the SOUND !   ( On the HD500 use only the Preamp Models  and NO Cabinets )

Art...



Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by Jeremy_Shirland on 2013-02-25 20:56:25

I have Pod HD bean' and 2 Atomic 112-50s. I like the Stack mode. It compensates for the closed back. I've never had issue with the Atomic speakers, other than the fact that all high wattage speakers need to be pushed to sound good:)



Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by Jeremy_Shirland on 2013-02-25 20:58:08

If I were to change them out, Wizards might be the choice...



Re: Atomic 112-50, a 212 cab and HD500 ... bliss!
by jcosta_sr on 2013-02-26 18:05:56

I've been thinking about changing speakers on my 112-50 and going FR.  Has anyone looked at the Eminance Beta 12-CX?  If you add the coaxial tweeter and cross over you get a frequency response of 66 hz to 20k.  It looks like there will be no problem with power handling, 250 watts RMS.  I just wonder how much frequency response the Atomic amp will have?  My guess is that it will be better than the stock 112-50 but not FR.  Any thoughts.

Message was edited by: John Costa - spelling :-)




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