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HD500 Multi-head Delay Problem/Bug? Anyone else?
by worshipviolin on 2010-11-27 21:28:46

I have searched all over trying to find someone else with this problem with no success.  Please forgive me if I am asking about something that has already been discussed.  The problem is this:

I am using the  multi-head delay in a preset.  I have the time set on a dotted 8th note.  If I leave that preset then return to it, the time is all messed up.  It still is set on a dotted 8th note, but that is no longer the time of the delay that it produces.  It's actually way off from the original.  To get it back to the dotted 8th delay (where it actually is performing correctly) I have to change the time on it to something else (anything else) then back to the dotted 8th setting.  Then it works fine again until I leave that preset then come back again.  I have saved it and re-saved it several times (in different locations), moved the delay pedals around in every configuration (that doesn't change the sound of the effect created), and I always lose the right time setting when returning to that preset.  Another way that I can fix it is by re-tapping the tempo with the tap switch.  This is not very handy because I want this delay to be on when I go to this preset, and if I start tapping the tap switch while playing then chaos erupts (delays flying everywhere) until it corrects itself.  This problem, by the way, is the same if no matter how you set the tempo setting in the HD500 setup menu (Global or Preset).

Is anyone else experiencing this?  Anyone know the solution?



Re: HD500 Multi-head Delay Problem/Bug? Anyone else?
by Crusty_Old_Rocker on 2010-11-27 21:43:30

Have you tried saving the preset to a different location.

Also try reprogramming the patch from scratch.  Sometimes, a patch may have a corruption in it and it doesn't matter what you do, it will carry the glitch with it.

It would also help if you would attach your patch to a post so others can install it and see what happens.

Cheers,

Crusty



Re: HD500 Multi-head Delay Problem/Bug? Anyone else?
by worshipviolin on 2010-11-27 22:04:02

Yea, I've saved it all over the place.  I'll try re-programming it from scratch and see if that helps.  It's a great preset and worth the time.  I'll also attach it as you suggested.  Keep in mind that the delay will not be as I intended it (on the multi-head delay) to be until you change the time to something else, then change it back to the dotted 8th.



Re: HD500 Multi-head Delay Problem/Bug? Anyone else?Hi,I'll
by ozbadman on 2010-11-27 23:05:31

Hi,

I'll try out your patch tomorrow when I get a chance. In the meantime however, hopefully it'll make you feel better, I have seen this issue a number of times myself and have previously reported it as a bug to Line 6. In my case however, I think I was able to work around it after changing the delay to a specific time, changing it back to 1/8th, then saving that. But, I will check with your patch tomorrow, and I will make sure I then try chaning away from the patch on the HD500 and changing back and seeing if that works.

In the meantime, I suggest you report this directly to Line 6 as a bug here, and include steps on reproducing it. As few steps as possible that show the bug.

http://line6.com/company/contact/productfeedback/

Cheers,

David.



Re: HD500 Multi-head Delay Problem/Bug? Anyone else?
by worshipviolin on 2010-11-27 23:05:44

Ok.  I rebuilt it from scratch, and unfortunately it still does the same thing.  I haven't noticed this with any other delays in any of my other presets.  I have only encountered this with the mutli-head delay.  I also made a new preset with just the multi-head delay and one amp in order to see if the multi-head delay would work correctly after leaving the preset and coming back.  Same problem.  I have to change the time on the delay then turn it back to dotted 8th to get the actual dotted 8th sound.  So there seems to be a problem in the multi-head delay.  It doesn't hold it's saved setting when leaving and returning to the preset.

I also just discovered that it will keep the same delay sound if the setting is set to any time in ms (300ms, etc), but will not keep any delay sounds saved in any of the note values(whole note, 8th note, or any note value).  Like I said earlier, the time setting remains the same when you look at the setting, but the actual delay time that you hear drastically changes when you return to the preset.



Re: HD500 Multi-head Delay Problem/Bug? Anyone else?
by Nick_Mattocks on 2010-11-28 04:43:59

Just asking, but are you using HD500 Edit when you notice this or is it when you edit directly on the HD500 with no computer connection being in place too?

HD500 Edit does have a couple of wrinkles that need to be ironed out, and I'm just wondering if this could be one of them.

Regards

Nick



Re: HD500 Multi-head Delay Problem/Bug? Anyone else?
by worshipviolin on 2010-11-28 12:18:45

Nick, this problem occurs with or without the computer connected.  If I use the multi-head delay in any preset I get the same results if I set the time on a note value instead of a specified time (ms).  And, of course, it works great until I leave that preset and then return to it.  I have a second HD500 sitting in a box right here, so I am going to try using the multi-head delay in it just to see if it behaves the same way.  I'll post back later with the results.

Thanks,

Mark



Re: HD500 Multi-head Delay Problem/Bug? Anyone else?
by ozbadman on 2010-11-28 12:24:03

Hi Mark,

I just tried your patch and all the delays seemed to work fine for me.

Here's what I did:

Turn each Delay each delay on by itself one at a time to make sure they are responding to tempo changes.

TAP the tempo button to choose a different time. Make sure I can hear the delay change.

Having tested each one, I then changed to a different patch then changed back. I then re-tested all the delays.

Everything worked as expected, with the delay times changing with the Tempo changes.

I had HD500Edit running and connected to the HD500 unit the whole time.

The only other thing I did is before I started, I set the Multi-head delay to a time, then back to 8th (dot) and sent that patch to the HD500

Am I missing something?

David.

Update: I think I see what you are saying now. I switch away and switch back, and the delays still work but they're not at the current Tempo. If I then re-tap the Tempo, they come good, but initially they are at a different (quicker) rate. BUT, I get this with all the delays in your patch, not just the multi-head. Yep, that's a bug. I have reported a very similar issue before so they may (hopefully) already be working on this. I'd still report your specific bug though.



Re: HD500 Multi-head Delay Problem/Bug? Anyone else?
by worshipviolin on 2010-11-28 12:41:04

David,

When returning to the preset were the delays working correctly?  The only delay that is messing up is the multi-head.  Every time I return to any preset that uses the mh delay on a note value for its time is always all messed up.  It still creates a delay, but not the dotted 8th.  I can reset the tempo with the tap and it will work correctly again.  The problem is not in my preset because I have created three others that only contain the mh delay and a single amp.  The same problem occurs every time. I can't imagine that I could possibly be doing something wrong there.

I will try doing what you said with the HD Edit and see if it fixes it or not.

Thanks David.



Re: HD500 Multi-head Delay Problem/Bug? Anyone else?
by ozbadman on 2010-11-28 12:44:30

See my update. I get the same behaviour as you, but on every Delay, not just multi-head. And yep, similar bugs have been reported so there's a good chance it's been fixed, but report your particular instance to encourage that to happen.

http://line6.com/company/contact/productfeedback/

Cheers,

David.



Re: HD500 Multi-head Delay Problem/Bug? Anyone else?
by worshipviolin on 2010-11-28 12:53:19

David,

I just tested this entire thing on my second HD500.  The problem is still there.  I tested the other delays.  They seem to remain the same.  The multi-head still bugs out (pardon the pun) when I return to a preset.  I didn't use the same preset.  I just made several with the multi-head delay, various other delays, and a single amp.  It's happening on two different HD500s so it's a bug.  There's no way that I could be doing something wrong in the settings of the delay.  It's simply changing from the saved sound when I return to the preset.  I reported the bug too.  Thanks for the link!

Maybe the fix will show up on new firmware soon.



Re: HD500 Multi-head Delay Problem/Bug? Anyone else?
by ozbadman on 2010-11-28 12:56:22

worshipviolin wrote:

David,

I just tested this entire thing on my second HD500.  The problem is still there.  I tested the other delays.  They seem to remain the same.  The multi-head still bugs out (pardon the pun) when I return to a preset.


Well that's weird unless we're hearing different things. I get the problem on all delays, not just multi.

worshipviolin wrote:

Maybe the fix will show up on new firmware soon.

I hope so. Maybe a XMas present??

Cheers,

David.



Re: HD500 Multi-head Delay Problem/Bug? Anyone else?
by worshipviolin on 2010-11-28 14:01:10

David,

Your ears are not fooling you.  What you are hearing is the results of the multi-head delay messing up.  When the multi-head delay messes up it makes all of the other delays sound like they are messing up.  The reason for this is that the multi-head delay is actually affecting the timing of the other delays.  There is a delay pedal before it, so the MH delay is actually delaying that sound along with its own delay.  Then later in the effects chain there is another delay which is getting (at this point of the effects chain) a signal which has two delays going on.  Then this last delay pedal is throwning in its own delays.  When the MH delay messes up, it throws all of the delays before and after it into a totally different time.  If you turn off the MH delay and leave all of the others on, the others automatically sound normal because they are unaffected by the messed up MH delay.  If you save the preset with the MH delay turned off then return to it, the delays will be the same as they were when you saved.  And if you go to the preset and do the fix on the MH delay to get it working properly, then all of the other delays will be timed right.  In a nutshell, the MH delay messes everything up when it messes up.  One bad apple spoils the whole bunch... or in this case one "bug" spoils the whole bunch.

Thanks for checking it out with me David.

Now, every HD500 owner out there that reads this:  report the bug until they fix it.  It's on thousands of HD500s out there.  It's bound to "bug" enough people to matter.



Re: HD500 Multi-head Delay Problem/Bug? Anyone else?
by ozbadman on 2010-11-28 14:05:50

I don't know man, I turned off all the delays and tested them individually. They each had the identical problem. Turn all the delays off. Turn only one on. Set it to 1/8th. Move away from the patch, come back, delay is set to the wrong time (faster). Re-tap the tempo, and all is good.



Re: HD500 Multi-head Delay Problem/Bug? Anyone else?
by worshipviolin on 2010-11-28 14:29:42

David,

Mine definately doesn't do that.  That's crazy, ain't it?  All of the other delays in my preset stay the same.  You're right, that is weird.



Re: HD500 Multi-head Delay Problem/Bug? Anyone else?
by ozbadman on 2010-11-28 14:41:11

worshipviolin wrote:

David,

Mine definately doesn't do that.  That's crazy, ain't it?  All of the other delays in my preset stay the same.  You're right, that is weird.

Hopefully only weird in the short term. Gooooo Line 6.



Re: HD500 Multi-head Delay Problem/Bug? Anyone else?
by worshipviolin on 2010-12-01 07:04:01

The only way that I can see to get around this while playing live is to switch to the preset, re-tap the tempo, then play.  So there has to be a gap for a few beats where you don't play.  So... you have to stop playing too early in one section of the song or come in late on the next section.....

Have any of the Line 6 guys tried using the multi-head delay this way and dicovered the bug?  I haven't found it yet in other delays.  I use other delays in lots of presets, and they work great for me.  Just not the MH delay.



RE: HD500 Multi-head Delay Problem/Bug? Anyone else?
by ricksox on 2010-12-03 16:53:05

Hello,

I can reproduce this here with our POD. It's a bug. I think it may even act this way in the M13 as well.

I've let our engineers know so hopefully we can get a fix for it in a future firmware update.

Line6Miller



Re: RE: HD500 Multi-head Delay Problem/Bug? Anyone else?
by grpaul2002 on 2010-12-04 00:47:32

yep

its happening to me as well, every time i switch patches and go back the delay time has changed, keep putting it back and saving, but once i switch out of the patch and come back in it goes again



Re: RE: HD500 Multi-head Delay Problem/Bug? Anyone else?
by worshipviolin on 2010-12-04 09:17:02

Thanks.  Maybe the fix is on its way.



Re: RE: HD500 Multi-head Delay Problem/Bug? Anyone else?
by worshipviolin on 2010-12-04 09:44:06

grpaul, report the bug the same as I did.  Maybe if enough attention is brought to the line6 engineers about this bug they might deem it important to fix (not that they don't already).

Happy pickin!



RE: HD500 Multi-head Delay Problem/Bug? Anyone else?
by ricksox on 2010-12-07 11:54:01

A bug has already been logged so there is no need to continue to report this. Our engineers are aware of this.

Line6Miller




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