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Part 2 - DT50 Initial Impressions....
by tommy1170 on 2010-12-01 15:02:33

OK - So its Day 2 with the new DT50 and I have couple of additional observations and one feature request of sorts.

Dislikes:

  1. The amp hums and hisses more than my SV MkII Head.  I've seen posts to this effect already on the forums and I can confirm them.  The DT50 is a bit louder at rest.  Not oppressively so, but enough so you notice it when tuning, pausing, etc.  Would love it if it was a bit quieter.  On a related note, the hiss and hum seems to be worse when using the PODHD500 then when going straight into the amp.  I am not sure why that is so I'll have to mess around with it somemore to see if I can reduce it.  The noise issue is not a show-stopper, but it is something to be aware of so you are not surprised.
  2. It would be more convenient to check and update the firmware through the POD HD USB port connections but thanks to the great folks on this forum, I was able to connect to my PC using MIDI from my ProTools Mbox2 and Line 6 Monkey recognized it right away.  So at this point, this is a minor issue for me
  3. Last, and in this case least, the volume pot on my DT50 Head feels like a speed knob.  There is very little resitance (i.e., physical) in the pot itself so I have to be careful when turning it up.  It feels so loose that it could spin (but in actuality it does not - at least not yet).  Surprised the volume pots - and really all of them - aren't a bit more "secure" feeling.  Admittedly this is a nit, but for the "flagship amplification" series from Line 6, you would think the pots would feel a bit more premium

Likes:

  1. The HD Modeling just rips!  To my ears, the HD models built into the DT50 itself sound better than comparable tones in the POD HD500, however, I am still in the tone-tweaking mode and I am sure I will eventually get them comparable.  The cleans are big and full.  The in-between sounds are gritty and glassy, and the metal tones are just brutal.  Today I started playing around with the different amp models using the POD HD, then messing around wiht the topology, operating class and pentode/triode switches.
  2. Building on point 1 above, it is WAY COOL to be able to have a given amp model on the POD HDs, say a Mesa Recto, and then change the NFL topology, operating class, pentode/triode settings for each.  Originally, I thought that when you selected an amp, the analog components of the DT50 automatically switched to match the selected amp model.  In fact, that is what does indeed happen.  What I did not realize, is that you can any and all of these parameters for a given amp model.  So today, I dialed up a Mesa Rectifier tone that originally was NFL IV, Class AB, and Pentode.  Turns out, it sounds mean as all you know what in Class A mode.  And so on....  Very cool and opens up a world of opportunity.  Also, an early "best practice" for me has been to dial in the basic tones on the DT50, then fine tune them on the PODHD500 vs. building them from scratch on the POD.
  3. The overall "feel" of the HD models is more lively and rich.  The amp really feels like it pushes, and for metal tones, they have so much more bottom end than the SVs, without the annoying high-end fuzz/sizzle.  Not to trash the SV MkIIs - I love mine - its just the DT50 blows it away.

Feature Request:

I would like to have the capability to use the DT50 models on the POD.  Let me explain.  Without the POD, when you plug into the DT50, you essentially get four "models" based on the NFL topology switch, which you can then tweak as desired.  These base models - as best as I can tell - do not correlate directly to the modesl on the PODHD500.  For example, the POD had Bogner, Mesa and Engl models for high-gain tones.  They all sound different than the DT50 high-gain model plugging straight into the amp (i.e., NFL IV, Class  AB, Pentode).  I would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to see an amp "model" available in the POD HDs that is the EXACT same model as plugging directly into the DT50 itself - with no "extra" EQ or coloring of the sound due to cab models, mic models, early reflections and such.  The goal would be to be able to select the "DT50 model" in the POD HD and get the SAME EXACT sound as if you plugged into the DT50 directly.  The amp stand-alone sounds THAT good.

***

OK - That's it for now.  I have found these forums invaluable in the past so this is my attempt to contribute some positive perspective to this community.

Tom



Re: Part 2 - DT50 Initial Impressions....
by jecastellanos on 2010-12-01 17:42:03

I agree with you 100% as far as the tone produce by the DT50 by itself. Nothing in my POD HD, connected directly to the computer or through the DT50 sounds as sick as plugging the guitar straight into the DT50 and dialing in some great tone.

So... I am in for the feature request!.



Re: Part 2 - DT50 Initial Impressions....
by Texxxxx on 2010-12-01 19:34:52

I think the HD400 can run the DT 50 'straight' with the 'FX Only' button.  Can we do it on the HD500 by selecting 'no amp'?  I can't try this yet as I only have received my HD500, but not my DT 50.



Re: Part 2 - DT50 Initial Impressions....
by tommy1170 on 2010-12-01 20:36:43

Texxxx-

That was a great suggestion.  Unfortunately, I just tried it and it doesn't work.  When you select "no amp" connected to the DT50 via L6 Link, it does produce some sounds, but they are essentially flat.  You can't get the "true" DT50 sounds going that way.  I am disappointed.  I tell you, the DT50 NFL IV, Class AB, Pentode mode sounds better than anything on the POD HDs.  Its that good.

I am surprised they have what amounts to a "different" HD model for the DT50 than what is available on the POD HDs.  I would love to see a DT50 amp pack.  What I want to be able to do is use the DT50 amp models (sans cab/mic modeling) and PODHD effects and such.  That way I could create multiple tones that I could access via the preset switches and use the POD HD volume pedal and such.  Essentially, I would love the POD HD to be able to function the way the FBV pedal does for the SpiderValves, with the exception of leveraging the POD HDs for effects.  That would truly be the best of both worlds.

I think Line 6 could easily accomplish this by creating an EXACT DUPLICATE of the DT50 preamp models for the PODHD series (again - sans cab/mic modeling) so if you selected the "DT50 NFL IV, Class AB, Pentode Model" you would get the SAME EXACT sound as if you plugged directly into the DT50 itself.  You could then sprinkle in effects as desired.  Line 6 has to make this possibility a reality.  The DT50 sounds so good!

Thanks again-

Tom



Re: Part 2 - DT50 Initial Impressions....
by TheRealZap on 2010-12-01 20:51:29

pretty sure that NFL IV is essentially the mesa... try using the pre model of that and you'll probably get close if not exact.

but what you are experiencing is the difference between a good model and a good amp

once you get settled in you will find that the versatility and sound is there for most of the models...

all the models just obtain their signature sound by various interactions between the pre and the power so it can take a little tweaking to find the magic combo... and along the way you will find loads of great tones besides

a great amp for sure.



Re: Part 2 - DT50 Initial Impressions....
by Texxxxx on 2010-12-02 05:51:00

Sorry to hear that doesn't work...thanks for trying and letting us know, tommy1170.

I wonder if it is true that on the HD400, when you hit the 'FX Only' button that you get the true sound of the DT 50?  If that is true, it would be a strong pint for getting the HD400 instead.

I will ask the question in the Pod forum and reference this thread.



Re: Part 2 - DT50 Initial Impressions....
by TheRealZap on 2010-12-02 06:19:58

i have the HD300 and the DT50 112

and it works like this...

if i hit the amp switch in the amber light mode

it switches to channel B on the DT50 in a WYSIWYG setup and will remember my last channel B settings...

so you can basically create any tone with no amp in the 3/400 and it will work direct on the DT50 channel B

i don't recall... but the effects only button may not have the same behaviour....

but this is basically what you are trying to do...

except it might be nice if the no amp patches could store the DT50 selections as well....

i need to double check that, but i don't think thats the case...

this all of course assumes you are using the XLR L6LINK... i'm sure that was obvious to some... but important none the less.



Re: Part 2 - DT50 Initial Impressions....
by Lespaulidas on 2010-12-02 09:18:11

"Feature Request:

I would like to have the capability to use the DT50 models on the POD.  Let me explain.  Without the POD, when you plug into the DT50, you essentially get four "models" based on the NFL topology switch, which you can then tweak as desired.  These base models - as best as I can tell - do not correlate directly to the modesl on the PODHD500.  For example, the POD had Bogner, Mesa and Engl models for high-gain tones.  They all sound different than the DT50 high-gain model plugging straight into the amp (i.e., NFL IV, Class  AB, Pentode).  I would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to see an amp "model" available in the POD HDs that is the EXACT same model as plugging directly into the DT50 itself - with no "extra" EQ or coloring of the sound due to cab models, mic models, early reflections and such.  The goal would be to be able to select the "DT50 model" in the POD HD and get the SAME EXACT sound as if you plugged into the DT50 directly.  The amp stand-alone sounds THAT good."

I agree 100%, in fact this was my first thought too when I got mine and I submitted a feature request.   The DT50 is badass on its own - without HD modeling, and to have that model(DT50) in the HD would be great., plus being able to save DT50 as is when no model is selected on HD , volumes, eq's, drives, & topology saved on the POD without having to dial in another "amp" model to simulate what you get when playing with the knobs on the DT.   The two channels on the amp are nice, but with the feature request, we'd theoretically have many channels available on the fly specific to the DT, without having to remember where I like the knobs set.   Does this sound confusing and redundant?  I'm sure it does to anyone who doesn't have a DT50, but it definitely produces its own unique tone without a HD model...



Re: Part 2 - DT50 Initial Impressions....
by Texxxxx on 2010-12-02 09:41:36

Yes, a bypass option of all HD500, 400 and 300 modeling for the DT 50 would be great; one that would allow you to still be able to have presets that could have the different topologys and class A/B settings, and still have access to all the FX.



Re: Part 2 - DT50 Initial Impressions....
by Texxxxx on 2010-12-02 13:15:30

What if you just turn an amp off...instead of not having one at all.  I know you can assign a footswitch to turn an amp off.  Does that let the DT 50's true sound come through?



Re: Part 2 - DT50 Initial Impressions....
by TheRealZap on 2010-12-02 13:18:32

i said that....

if you turn the amp off on the 3/400 it will switch to channel B on the DT50 and you can set it up however you like.



Re: Part 2 - DT50 Initial Impressions....
by Lespaulidas on 2010-12-02 13:29:11

Not in front of my DT50, but do you guys know the answer to this?

When a channel is saved in the DT50 by editing the topology, class a/b, etc..  Are the values of the eq, presence knobs saved with the channel?   I don't believe they are, because I know the volume knob doesn't get saved...  Been surprised by that.   I find having the HD500, I get very used to settings being saved, that I assume DT50 settings save as well.  Sometimes I've turned the amp model off on the HD500, and been nastily surprised that the volume knob on channel "B" on the DT50 was cranked.. Nothing like blowing the roof accidentally off when trying to practice late at night! 

The only thing I wish the DT50 also had was indicator lights around each dial, that shows the position the knobs are "truly" in, for example, when modeling on the HD500, and minor tweaks are made on the front of the DT50, the knob positions don't reflect the actual value  (similar to the LCD display on the HD500), which is understandable.   And since the knobs aren't setting a value mechanically, but rather digitally, why can they not save the value into the channel memory?   Is this asking too much?       Maybe from my programming days, I'm always thinking too much about how to make things more intuitive.



Re: Part 2 - DT50 Initial Impressions....
by Texxxxx on 2010-12-02 14:23:15

I'm sorry...I didn't understand that that applied to the HD500 also, zap3nc; or else I wasn't making it clear that I was talking about the HD500.  Either way, thanks for clearing that up.

Lespaulidas post above also seems to confirm that turning the amp off on the HD500 will allow the DT 50 to be heard.

I'm sure you guys can tell I'm a little confused.  ???? 



Re: Part 2 - DT50 Initial Impressions....
by whiteop on 2010-12-03 14:07:59

Well just be glad you have one that works. Mine appears to have arrived DOA today in the mail. Didn't notice any unusual damage to the box like it was tossed around or anything... Bummed and sort of shook my confidence with Line 6....;(



Re: Part 2 - DT50 Initial Impressions....
by YesGuitarMan on 2013-04-16 11:35:59

I have my DT-500 and HD500 for only a few days but I couldn't agree with you more.  I notice your post was from Dec. 2010.  Have you found a way around the dilemma?  If so, I would to hear about it so that it saves me countless hours of frustration.  On it's own, the DT-50 sounds as good or better than my Fender Twin Amp and the Marshall tone is killer.  I have yet to figure out how to get those same tones with the HD500.




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