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KB37- no keyboard sound
by Nathantongier on 2010-12-03 09:45:17

Just bought a KB37. I was having issues with the software earlier but now that thats resolved I'm still having issues with it.When I have the provided software (Reason Adapted) that is supposed to work with the KB37 to generate various keyboard activated sounds opened, I get no sound whatsoever when I press the keys. The software reacts on my computer, ie. the graphical representations of the keyboard on the left side of each "rack" unit in the software light up, the software VU meters react as well as the level lights, Even when I go into options/preferences/keyboards and control surfaces, it shows the Line 6 KB37 avatar and it has the little green "I'm working ok" checkmark there. I've checked all my volume levels, I've plugged my headphones into the headphone jack as well as both analog outputs and still I get nothing. The VU meters on the device itself don't react either. All other audio activity works just fine. I can play my guitar through it, listen to audio files from my compter, and even play the audio from movies on my computer through it, but no audible audio signal seems to be generated when the keyboard is played even though the software reacts as if it is. I tried un-installing and then re-installing the Reason software and still nothing. Whats going on here?



Re: KB37- no keyboard sound
by TheRealZap on 2010-12-03 09:58:43

did you read my responses here:

http://line6.com/community/thread/50245

and here:

http://line6.com/community/message/209922#209922

and if so... might help to know how far you got....



Re: KB37- no keyboard sound
by Nathantongier on 2010-12-03 10:20:59

I AM using the provided Reason software that came with the KB37 and I am still not getting any sound from the keyboard. I DO get sound from the KB37 when anything else is used, ie. playing my guitar through it or listening to an audio file on the computer. The Reason software does react when I press the keys on the keyboard, the simulated LED lights illuminate on the simulated rack units, but I hear nothing through the KB37 outputs. It acts as if there were a master volume knob on the Reason software that is turned all the way down. I don't see one though.



Re: RE: KB37- no keyboard sound
by Line6Tony on 2010-12-07 10:56:52

Hi. I think the first thing to do is play a demo song in Reason. You will probably get output and hear it. If you do, there is likely a routing issue in Reason in the song you're working on.

  In your song, if you hit the Tab button on your computer keyboard, the back of the rack is shown. The routing should be Mixer L-R Master out to Maximizer L-R input, then Maximizer L-R output to 1-2 in the Hardware Device (you may have to click the small triangle on the left to unfold it). Play the keyboard, and you should see MIDI signals in the device you're playing, and audio signals in the mixer's master meters, the Maximizer meters, and the Audio Output meters at the top of the rack. As well, you should hear the keyboard.



Re: RE: KB37- no keyboard sound
by Nathantongier on 2010-12-10 16:40:22

Nope, no audio at all coming from the KB37 when using Reason. Tried loading a demo song, nothing. Ensured that the simulated patch cableing in the back was correct as you described, still nothing. I AM getting reaction from the simulated audio output meters on the screen as you described, but still no audio, nor do the real output meters on the unit itself show any reaction. When I use POD farm and Riffworks everything works just fine, but this of course still leaves the keyboard part of the unit useless since it needs Reason to play sounds from the keyboard. I DO have some KORG M50 virtual synth software installed on my computer for my KORG M50, Should I try seeing if it will generate sound using that as the midi controller software? If it works Then that means theres something wrong with the Reason software right? The fact that the KB37 is working perfectly with the Riffworks software means that the unit itself is no dammaged right? I'd really like to get this thing working so I can finish recording my songs guys. This is getting very frustrating. For me this unit was expensive. It took me a while to save up the money to buy it and its not working. Not to mention the fact that I am a soldier stationed in Afghanistan. If this thing is physically broken I'd like to know asap so I can send it back and get a replacement, and being way out here that takes quite a while.



Re: RE: KB37- no keyboard sound
by Nathantongier on 2010-12-10 16:43:08

Just tried using the M50 software. Just got an error messege, no audio.



RE: KB37- no keyboard sound
by Line6Hugo on 2010-12-13 11:04:56

Nathan,

Going back to Reason, Go in the Edit->Preferences-> Audio page. Please ensure that you have the Audio Card Driver set to ASIO KB37. Then test the Demo song.

Let me know if you get any traction with this suggestion.

Regards,

Line6Hugo



Re: RE: KB37- no keyboard sound
by Nathantongier on 2010-12-13 18:39:37

Ok, tried that. Still nothing.



RE: KB37- no keyboard sound
by Kneehow on 2010-12-14 15:44:45

Hi,

I believe you have the USB device drivers installed OK, based on everything you've mentioned previously. Quick checklist:

1. You can successfully stream computer audio through the KB37's headphone output. This is to re-confirm that the KB37 is functioning correctly as a USB audio output device.

2. Within Reason Adapated.

A. Edit/Preferences/Audio. Make sure the ASIO KB37 is selected.

B. Edit/Preferences/Keyboard & Control Surfaces. If there are any previously created "Attached Surfaces", please highlight those and click "Delete". The idea here is to remove all previously created devices.

When nothing exists in that list, let's click "Add". Select "Line 6" for Manufacturer. Select "KB37" for Model. In the MIDI Input drop-down list, select the "Line 6 KB37" option.

C. In one of the Reason Adapted devices (pick one) and click on the Patch Browser. Load this device with a Sound Preset of your choosing... just make sure it doesn't say "Init Patch" on the Reason device's virtual LCD screen.

If you have the Phones knob up, headphones connected, you should hear a virtual synth sound being triggered by your keyboard input on the KB37. The VU Meters should register audio signal being passed through. Of course, make sure your headphones are connected to the KB37's headphone jack.

I just did this step-by-step receipe locally with my KB37 unit running Reason 5.

That's all I needed to do to send MIDI note input into Reason software with the KB37.

One additional place to check is the Start/All Programs/Line6/Tools shortcut menu. There should be a Line 6 Audio MIDI Device control panel. In the MIDI tab, you can load the preset map to "Reason Remote". This should enable Reason Transport control via the KB37's transport buttons.

If none of this is happening correctly, I really don't know what on your end is causing the issue. Let us know your findings. Thanks.

Regards,

L6Perry



Re: RE: KB37- no keyboard sound
by Nathantongier on 2010-12-16 12:51:18

Ok, tried all of that. Still no luck. attached are some screenshots of error messages I got while initially attempting to open Reason Adapted. Initially I get the first one (This doesn't always happen by the way. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. I don't see any correlating factors when it decides to do this either, it's sort of random) Then I get the second. At that point, when I go into preferences > keyboards and control surfaces, The KB37 does show in the window, but the green check mark is a red "X" instead until I "add" it in, then when I'm done with that it turns to the green check mark. HOWEVER, when I delete the KB37 and click auto-detect surfaces, it says, "No keyboards or control surfaces were auto-detected." Now, normally this would tell me that the KB37 itself is malfunctioning right? The problem with that is that the POD farm and Riffworks software work just fine, and I can also hear all the system sounds and any other sound file played through the computer. I have tried re-installing Reason and this didn't help either. Seems to me that it's the software itself, and that it's probably conflicting with some other piece of software, but which one and why? The only other software that I can think of that I have that might conflict with it is the midi software for my Korg M50, but I can't imagine that I'm the only person that has a KB37 and a Korg M50, with both products respective software installed on my computer, so it seems like if that was the case that you guys would have heard about this conflict before now. Plus, I've gone through my computer audio devices and deleted the M50 as a sound controller. The only audio deveices that my computer recognises are the KB37 and it's own (Realtek high definition audio) audio card, and I doubt that would be where the conflict is since as I understand it, the KB37 overrides  the ambient sound card and acts as the computers sound card when it's plugged in right?ReasonError01.jpg

ReasonError02.jpg

This third screenshot just shows that the software IS reacting to the KB37 when the keys are pressed, so unless I'm mistaken, that again shows that the KB37 itself is functioning properly.

ReasonError03.jpg



Re: RE: KB37- no keyboard sound
by Nathantongier on 2010-12-16 13:02:31

I'm thinking that what we need to be looking is at the question, What is the difference in the software and how the device deals with it between Reason and POD farm? The first thing that comes to my mind is the controller surface (The keyboard) itself, but then why does the Reason software react graphically but not audibly? I don't know enough about the software or the device to answer this. Am I looking in the right direction here though?



RE: KB37- no keyboard sound
by Kneehow on 2010-12-16 14:26:37

Hi,

The KB37 is capable of two different functions over USB: (1) audio I/O or (2) MIDI input to computer software applications.

One of the pre-requisites is to have a good USB driver installation on the operating system of the computer. It wouldn't take very long to try the following... download and install the latest Windows USB device driver for the KB37 here: http://line6.com/software/readeula.html?rid=3523

You'll want to disconnect the KB37 from the USB port before doing this.

I have another guess: did you install POD Farm software from the CD that came with the KB37 initially? This disc has a much older set of software components. Can you confirm you software installation history (i.e. "I installed from the CD that came with the KB37 first and then went online... or, I completely bypassed the CD that came with the KB37 because these days, it's common for audio companies to post newer software/drivers on their website for users world-wide to access that are updated for newer operating systems exist, etc."

Let us know.

I wonder if there's an older version driver on your system causing the glitch. Ideally, the audio output from Reason Adapted should be no different in behavior than that of POD Farm or iTunes, your web browser, and so on... assuming that the KB37 is set as the default Windows audio output device.

Regards,

L6Perry



Re: RE: KB37- no keyboard sound
by Nathantongier on 2010-12-17 09:31:57

I'm pretty sure that the USB driver is ok. The computer itself is less than 5 months old and all other USB devices seem to work just fine on it. Plus, if there was an issue with the USB driver wouldn't the POD farm software be un-able to communicate with the KB37 as well? If it IS the USB driver, that presents a problem for me since I cannot currently access the internet with the computer that the KB37 is hooked up to. When I go to the link you posted and attempt to download the driver it immediately attempts to install the driver on this computer which being a military computer is set up to not allow any system changes like that unless the administrator is logged on.

  Now, as for the version of POD farm I have. When I bought the computer back in July, I already had a Toneport UX2 installed on my old computer. During the time that I had the old computer, at some point I noticed when logging on to Line6 monkey that POD farm 2 was available for me to download. Thinking that it was an upgrade that was compatible with the UX2 I downloaded it. As you are no doubt aware, it didn't work with the UX2 and since I already had a functioning copy of POD farm 1 on my computer I didn't worry too much about it and just left it installed. When I bought the new computer, I transfered all the software over to the new computer (at the time I had not deployed out here to Afghanistan yet and as such, being stateside I had an internet connection and so was able to do the transfer easily). I transfered the un-usable version of POD farm 2 as well knowing that I'd be upgrading to the KB37 soon and wanted to use version 2 whe I got it. Then, a little more than a month ago I came back on leave and once again having access to the internet with the computer, I updated everything including all the Line6 software, so despite the fact I was unable to use it at the time because I had not yet purchased the KB37, the POD farm 2 sofware was updated at that time. Shortly after that, while still on leave, I purchased the KB37 and installed it and the software that came with it, although do not recall whether or not I installed the POD farm 2 disk that came with it. I may have simply thought that since I already had it that installing again was unnecessary and this may have been confirmed when I plugged in the guitar and POD farm 2 worked. The problem with doing what you recommend and un-installing and then re-installing POD farm 2 is that I think the POD farm activation after installation is internet dependant isn't it? Again, since I am now back in Afghanistan, I cannot currently access the internet with the computer that the KB37 is installed to and since the one thing that IS working on this thing is POD farm 2, I'd hate to loose that as well, not to mention that I have some add-ons installed to the POD farm software that I'm sure would be lost when un-installing it. Can the POD farm software be installed and then activated without accessing the internet? and if so, how would I go about installing the add-ons afterwards? If there were a way to download the add-ons to a specific file (ie. an SD card) and then transfered over to the computer that way we could try that, but if I'm not mistaken, I can't even activate the POD farm software itself without accessing the internet with that computer correct?



RE: KB37- no keyboard sound
by Kneehow on 2010-12-17 10:59:24

Hi Nathan,

Compared to the information in your initial posting, much needed info to help you out has finally surfaced.

Yes, internet is a requirement for getting most of our software/USB based devices setup. We had absolutely no idea at the start of your inquiry that you were stationed overseas in Afghanistan under a different set of circumstances that most users function in.

It's probably safe to say that at this point in time, not a whole lot will be possible unless you somehow find a way to have internet access. Activation of features within a POD Studio USB device after a software installation does require Internet, yes. I also do believe that the real cause of your initial question is the driver (version). From our perspective, it would be ideal for you to get a hold of the most current Windows USB driver (from that link I provided you previous); I've downloaded driver installers from a different location and copied the .exe to a USB flash drive or SD card as you mentioned and taken it to a different computer.

I think the hurdle is your Internet permissions/accessibility. All of our suggestions we can recommend pre-suppose that this is not an obstacle. Sorry that we can't help out in that department.

Everything else we suggested previous remains. Thanks for at least providing a clearer picture of your end of things. It does make more sense now what you're experiencing.

Regards,

L6Perry



Re: RE: KB37- no keyboard sound
by Nathantongier on 2010-12-17 11:18:45

Sorry 'bout that. Thought I'd mentioned the lack of internet connection before but as I scrolled through this whole thing just now I realized I haddn't. I'll try downloading the drivers from another site and see if that helps, but I still think the USB drivers are ok. I think you're probably right about the older POD software conflicting with reason somehow though. Let me ask you this though. I still have the old version (POD farm 1) installed on my computer from when I was using the UX2. Is there a possibility that thats where the conflict is and if so, If I uninstalled that would I loose the add-ons even though they're currently affiliated with POD farm 2 that would still be on the computer?



RE: KB37- no keyboard sound
by ricksox on 2010-12-17 11:35:11

Hello,

Our audio driver has so many layers that it's totally possible that the driver is the issue despite the fact that you get output in POD Farm.

Can you stream audio through the KB37? Like through a media player like iTunes?

Also, I noticed that you have a beta version of Record installed on your computer. What I would suggest is uninstalling that along with Reason Adapted and then reinstall just Reason Adapted.

To uninstall Record, open the control panel and choose "Add/Remove Programs" ("Uninstall a program" if you're on Vista). Select the Record Beta from the list and click "Remove".

To uninstall the CodeMeter Runtime Kit, open the control panel and choose "Add/Remove Programs" ("Uninstall a program" if you're on Vista). Select the CodeMeter Runtime Kit form the list and click "Remove". All CodeMeter driver files and the entries in the registry will be now removed from the computer.

Line6Miller



Re: RE: KB37- no keyboard sound
by Nathantongier on 2010-12-17 11:56:57

Yes, I can stream through the KB37. Everything except Reason adapted seems to be working just fine. I've just un-installed beta and was planning on also un-installing PODfarm version 1 since I have version 2 installed already, but I'm worried that in doing so I might loose the plug-ins I have installed on POD farm version 2. Do you think thats a risk or should I just go ahead and un-install it?



RE: KB37- no keyboard sound
by ricksox on 2010-12-17 12:01:02

When you say you are worried about losing the plug ins do you mean your saved plug in tones or the actual plug in components?

Reinstalling the software will also reinstall all of the latest plug in components. Your saved tone files won't be touched.

Line6Miller



Re: RE: KB37- no keyboard sound
by Nathantongier on 2010-12-17 12:11:36

What I mean is, I have POD farm version 1 and POD farm version 2 both currently installed on my computer. I kept version 1 on there after installing version 2 just in case I didn't like version 2. The plug-ins I'm refering to are the extra different amp modelers and effect modelers that you download seperately from Line6 and don't automatically come with POD farm. Because of the possibility that POD farm version 1 might be conflicting with Reason adapted, I want to un-install version 1, but I'm worried that I'll loose the amp models and effect models that I downloaded.



RE: KB37- no keyboard sound
by ricksox on 2010-12-17 12:12:29

All of your licenses are tied toy our hardware, not your computer so you won't lose anything.

Line6Miller



Re: RE: KB37- no keyboard sound
by Nathantongier on 2010-12-17 12:21:04

Right, but remember I cannot access the internet with this computer. The computer I'm messeging you from is a military computer on a government network that will not allow me to add my computer to it. I probably won't be able to access the internet with my computer until July when we return from here in Afghanistan. I'd rather not wait that long to have access to my downloads so I need to be carefull what I un-install.



RE: KB37- no keyboard sound
by Kneehow on 2010-12-17 13:55:22

Hi,

You can uninstall the POD Farm Version 1 software program from the computer. The amp models you're concerned about are installed into your KB37's chipset (internal hardware). Uninstalling a software program from the computer won't remove the licenses that still live inside of your KB37's chipset.

Regards,

L6Perry



Re: RE: KB37- no keyboard sound
by Nathantongier on 2010-12-17 14:07:41

Do you think it will help the Reason adapted issue if I do uninstall The POD 1 software?



Re: RE: KB37- no keyboard sound
by Nathantongier on 2010-12-17 14:12:28

I'm going through the uninstall program list on my computer and I don't see PODfarm at all. I do see something called Line6 uninstaller. If I use that can it uninstall just one version of PODfarm or will it automatically uninstall both?



Re: RE: KB37- no keyboard sound
by Kneehow on 2010-12-17 14:15:52

Hi,

  I doubt it. POD Farm 1.x is just another application in the overall scheme of things. I've never encountered a scenrio where the presence of POD Farm software caused another program's inability to access a USB device's audio stream functionality.

  On this work computer, I have POD Farm 1.12, POD Farm 2.02, GearBox 3.72, Line 6 Monkey 1.34, RECORD 1.5, Reason 5.0 and ReCycle 2.1.2 installed.

  I ran into problems with the KB37 I use once where I could get audio out of POD Farm through the headphones but iTunes wouldn't stream output any longer, when the driver got corrupted for reasons unknown. The solution was to uninstall the current USB drivers, restart the computer, download a new copy of the latest Line 6 USB device driver installer, run it.

  Regards,

  L6Perry

P.S. The Line 6 Uninstaller should allow you to select which components you wish to remove.



Re: RE: KB37- no keyboard sound
by Nathantongier on 2011-01-17 12:54:32

Ok, I gained access to the internet with the computer that has the KB37 installed on it. Downloaded the most current drivers and made sure that all my line 6 stuff was updated. Opened up Reason adapted and poof it worked. "COOL!" I thought to myself and proceeded to open Riffworks so that I could record some keyboard tracks on one of my songs. Now, since our last interaction on this issue, I contacted Sonoma Wireworks and long story short, bought and installed Riffworks standard, because when I installed the Rifworks T4 that came with the KB37 over the Riffworks for Line 6 that I already had installed on my computer, I assumed that T4 was an upgrade but discovered after coming out here where I have had no internet access 'till now that in fact T4 is a serious downgrade. Because of the lack of internet, my only option was to purchase Riffworks standard and authenticate the insallation through a slightly complicated process of copying and pasting URL's and then saving the download to an SD card ...yadda yadda, you get the picture. SO, having installed RW standard, everything was working fine and I was able to go back to recording songs with more than 4 tracks. The Reason software still didn't work, but I knew that would be the case and just figured that I'd wait 'till I had an internet connection. Well, here we are, Internet connection on this computer and the latest drivers installed, reason is working well, but when I went to open the very recently installed RW standard to bring up the song I'd been working on and add the keyboard tracks to it, guess what? Now RW standard has decided that it no longer sees the control surface (The KB37). No problem I thought, I'll just go into the control panel and reset the KB37 as the default device. As I suspected, the ambient computer sound card had reasserted itself as the dominant sound card, so I beat it back into submission allowing the KB37 to reign as the dominant sound card. Problem fixed right? Nope. Riffworks standard still no longer sees the KB37. I'm chasing this problem in circles guys. If I could get it to just do what it's supposed to do, I'm sure I'd love this thing. As it stands I'm ready to give it to the EOD (Explosive Ordinance Disposal) guys we have out here to practice blowing up bombs with, video tape the whole thing, and post it up on youtube. A theory right now that I'm contemplating is that maybe the Reason software isn't compatible with Riffworks? I have a hard time believing that Line 6 would sell a product that has incompatible components though. Please tell me that this is not the case. I'm a musician guys, not a software or interface device engineer. The mindsets of those two types of people are completely different, and one has an immensely difficult time trying to perform the most basic of tasks of the other in most cases. Did I screw up by Installing RW standard prior to downloading the latest drivers for the KB37? I realize that with RW standard that you cannot do a lot because Line 6 and Sonoma Wireworks authenticate their software differently and that they aren't the same company so one can't give support for the other. I just want to get this thing fixed though. Can you guys help or do I need to contact Sonoma on this one?




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