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pre- amp model question
by JB1973 on 2011-01-03 11:54:41

Someone told me that the 4 (preamp) voicings in the dt50 are just

4 / 16 preamps in the hd500. If that is true can anybody tell

me which they are

such as voicing 1 is blackface lux   -- etc. 

I think this will help me find the "sweet spot" on a couple tones.



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by Kneehow on 2011-01-11 15:30:51

Hi,

  I: Fender Blackface Deluxe

  II: Marshall Plexi JTM 45 MKII

  III: Vox AC30

  IV: MESA Dual Rectifier

  Regards,

  L6Perry

Edit: NFL II is actually based on the Park 75.



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by JB1973 on 2011-01-11 15:37:32

Awesome thanks!



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by JB1973 on 2011-01-16 13:56:13

the 4rth is based on  Mesa Dual Rectifier

what model is that in the pod hd list?



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by tommasi on 2011-01-16 14:05:48

"treadplate"



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by arcticman on 2011-01-16 16:06:51

Line6Perry,

Would you please verify the 4 DT50 amp models.

When I select the Treadplate amp in a new patch with my HD500 my DT50 112 automatically configures to:

CLASS A/B

Pentode

Topolgy III

The reference plate that come with the DT50 lists the IV Modern High-Gain as:

Class A/B

Pentode

Topology IV

The only amp model that automatically configures to Topology IV is the Angel F-Ball.

The other 3 amp models you listed:

I: Fender Blackface Deluxe

II: Park 75

III: Vox AC30

appear to match.

Thanks



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by JB1973 on 2011-01-16 16:33:40

Hmmm ya only one that defaults to voicing 4

but I am going to have to keep trying to make it match.

J



RE: pre- amp model question
by Kneehow on 2011-01-17 12:02:58

Hi,

The four topologies are for Channel B of the DT50; these are the default amp models when you're dialing in manual WYSIWYG settings...

You guys are connecting your POD HD500's and trying to get readings from the L6 Link connection. HD500's control topology settings for Channel A via the L6 Link connection.

The four models that JB was asking for initially are for Channel B, which has nothing to do with your HD500's connection. If you plug into the DT50 and select Channel B, those are the default topology amp models.

Also, please keep in mind that there could be changes in future firmware releases, since this is a software-driven amplifier. But for now, Channel B amp model topology defaults are as I previously mentioned.

Regards,

L6Perry



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by JB1973 on 2011-01-17 14:45:51

Ok Thanks Perry

you helped allot

the reason for us trying to get the channel A to line up is... we really like the tone of the amp by itself

but have no way to switch between voicings to the sweet spots we like. So if we could recreate the

settings using the hd500 and dt50 together it would be like being able to "switch" between the amp 4

voicings with the added benefit of the m effects and a variax input, recordings etc. + have access to

12 other pre/full models. at this point I am losing faith that I can "faithfully" recreate the exact tone coming

out to the dt50 by itself. But perhaps in the future there will be software updates that will allow this. I have

yet to look into midi control for amp switching and do not know at this point if you can switch between all

4 voicings with settings you prefer on the amp itself and add in M effects as well. Then switch to using the hd

other models, if so that is probably what I need to be doing. But have yet to hear from anyone that this package

is possible, although I have heard partly possible (but not details how to do it).

cheers

J



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by arcticman on 2011-01-17 16:37:01

Hi L6Perry,

Thanks for the reply.

This isn't a big deal, I'm very pleased with the HD500 & DT50; however, it still is a bit confusing.

With the HD500 and L6 link (channel A) the Treadplate is modeled with topology III.

On channel B (DT50 stand alone) the Treadplate is modelled with topology IV. Right?

That may explain why none of DT50 built in pre-amps sound identical to their "equivalent" counterparts in the HD500.

Which is OK... now I have 20 amp models!

Cheers



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by JB1973 on 2011-01-19 16:50:01

In reality all this about the pre-amps is just because I want to be able to have the sounds my amp can make on its own without the hd500 and be able to actually change from clean/crunch/chime/hi-gain. If I could change the topology remotely with my dialed in tone controls I want, with channel A and B being the same voicing (dialed in with different tonal controls) mixed with all the M effects. That in itself would be a hundred or more different tonal variations at my fingertips and I really (like many of us) like the dt50 tones ..........yes better then what I am dialing in from the hd500.

But somehow I bought and paid for a $1500 4 channel amp without the ability to change the freaking channels..........

is the last laugh on me? or will L6 own up to the "complete control" that it said the hd pedals provided because in my opinion the dt50 could be marketed as a stand alone amp to all the guys with M9&13 boxes, all the guys who like using single footpedals they would dig the tone of the dt50 can get out of all 4 channels but yet I believe the amp will fail in the long run if they are going to make it just a (very expensive) post amp box for the hd preamps.



RE: pre- amp model question
by ricksox on 2011-01-20 09:46:07

You can switch between channels A and B on the DT50 with the POD. By bypassing the amp models completely on the HD500 the DT50 defaults to channel B and a "what you see is what you get" manual mode.

Line6Miller



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by Lution777 on 2011-01-20 10:03:39

I have been told that Sound II on the DT50 was the Park 75 model.- not the JTM.

At 10 seconds into this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jfxxso3WHQ&feature=relatedof the 2010 LA Amp Fest, there is description of the Line6 DT50, which was part of the AmpFest, shows they played through the DT50 Park Channel.



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by JB1973 on 2011-01-20 11:17:34

L6Miller we are aware of the amp off to get channel b

What we were asking for is either to be able to change from clean/crunch/chime/higain on the amp using the pod

or to at least know how to faithfully recreate the dt50 tone using preamps from the pod, which is not as easy as it

would seem



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by JB1973 on 2011-01-20 14:44:26

I got sent home due to snow today my son just happened to need a nap and I got to work on this awhile

Due to suggestions and just trial and error I think I got some damn close recreations of the DT50 tones

in full power mode*, to do this I sometimes used cabs some not, doubled the amp pre's to get the fuller

tone the dt50 gets and only used the chart tone as a guide.

Now I did not level off the volumes for each of these because I wanted to be matching the master volum/volume

on channel B to the be same as channel A. I will obviously level off the volume for myself.

Some of the patches sounded different to me in vol. pulled out mode.

I also ran into some crazy volume issues while working on the high gain patch. I started getting insane screaching

feedback even with the volume down, another time I was playing and the master control did nothing to shut off the volume

I assigned FS4 to turn off the preamps and swap to channel B, sometimes it would turn off only one preamp sometimes both

I even had the red light not work for a while when pressing it. Just wacky crap. I don't know how much of this is amp or hd500

or the edit program....the edit program is buggy and I have seen it do weird stuff before.

Anyway I am going to post this on a couple threads I have started to share with folks.

Even  though I got some decent mimic tones I still want to be able to switch  between the 4 amp tones on the amp, why? because if I could do that

it  would free up the dsp for effects on the pod for one, I could set  channel A to basic tone and channel b could be a tone with less or more  drive, reverb etc.

Hope these work for you guys that were wanting it

cheers

J



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by Rowbi on 2011-01-21 07:10:46

JB1973 wrote:

L6Miller we are aware of the amp off to get channel b

What we were asking for is either to be able to change from clean/crunch/chime/higain on the amp using the pod

or to at least know how to faithfully recreate the dt50 tone using preamps from the pod, which is not as easy as it

would seem

ok, here's what I know from reading various posts so far.

DT50 has 4 voicings, and 4 of them are the same as 4 of the POD HD amp models.  note that i say voicings when I refer to the DT50 and models when I refer to the POD HD... that's on purpose.  that is because when you switch the NFL switch on the DT50, it also selects the amp model, and together they make a voicing.  on the POD HD, you can select the amp model and it selects the default NFL, BUT you can then change the NFL(just the NFL) on the POD without it affecting the amp model part of it, to give you a different sound... cool or what!!

so, you must have the latest POD HD and DT50 firmware, having them out of sync will cause sound differences.

the pod hd MUST be in the correct live output mode, combo if using a DT50 combo, and stack if using a DT50 head and cab...

on the DT50 I think:

Voicing I: Fender Blackface

Voicing II: Park 75

Voicing III: AC 30TB

Voicing IV: Dual Recto (on the DT50 this uses NFL IV, on the POD HD, it defaults to III... remember I said the DT50 sounds were voicings... this is perhaps why they're called voicings.  so on the POD, select treadplate, and then change to NFL IV to sound like the DT50 voicing IV)

I hope this helps to sort out the whole "how do I get my POD HD to sound like my DT50??"  There is no conspiracy going on here, the models in both ARE the same..... exactly the same.  and using the L6 Link, everything is identical in what teh POD HD and DT50 does.... it's just that there are other things you can change on the POD so that it can sound different.  hance why I explained it as I see it here.

Cheers

Rowbi



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by JB1973 on 2011-01-21 07:43:43

Did you check out my settings Rowbi? They are pretty much dead on.  I'll post them on custom tone.  But it would still be very benefitial to  be able to set up amp change not using preamp from podhd to get the  sound. You would have more flexibility with channels a and b and have  all the dsp free for effects/vol/wah etc. The amp can also achieve  higher volume on settings like chime, I maxed out the preamps to get the  same tone as the amp 3/4 the way up.

cheers

JB



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by wolbai on 2011-01-21 07:51:01

Hi Rowbi,

thanks for the clarification! That helps me and confirms some how too my way to deal with the dt50/HD500-rig.

I always believed that there should be no need for heavily tweaking (e.g. using dual amps, EQs, or mod-effects) to get the original DT50-voicings via a HD/PRE amp model.

I also think that there is no need to check all various cab-sims / mic-sims too. I simply switched them off to get the DT50-voicings with your mentioned PRE amp models.

Any comments on that would be helpful. Regards.



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by phil_m on 2011-01-21 07:51:19
But somehow I bought and paid for a $1500 4 channel amp without the ability to change the freaking channels..........

I have not seen the DT50 advertised anywhere as a 4 channel amp.  Everything I've seen from Line 6 has been pretty clear that it's 2 channel amp.  And as has already been stated, the HD500 could be used as a simple A/B switch to change channels if you wanted.



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by JB1973 on 2011-01-21 08:01:11

You got me there, in most of my posts I stated "basically a 4 channel amp" meaning that it has 4 seperate accessible tones. I have stated many times that I was using channels meaning topology or voicings that I was not refering to A and B which is just variation of the same tone ..if you are using the amp alone and not with the podhd.

However please read on in my threads I have "broke the code" so to speak and was able to pretty much mimic the tones on the dt50 by using the hd500 preamps/cabs with the dt50. I was only able to do this by opening up some discussion and getting some answers from L6 employees and customers alike. I still want to be able to change the topology or whatever I call channels on the amp so it don't eat up the hd dsp among other reasons but hopefully that will come in time.  Check out my tones when you have a chance, hopefully it will translate to other people who wanted the dt50 tones on their pods.

JB



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by JB1973 on 2011-01-21 08:55:19

wolbai

check out my tones i created (if you have a hd500) I got some good matches....however I did not get these without using dual preamps, therefore it may be more difficult for folks who do not have dual amp processing.



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by Rowbi on 2011-01-21 09:13:37

wolbai wrote:

I also think that there is no need to check all various cab-sims / mic-sims too. I simply switched them off to get the DT50-voicings with your mentioned PRE amp models.

Any comments on that would be helpful. Regards.

dont switch off the cab sims, leave on the default cab and mic that's selected with the amp on the POD HD.  the output modes (in this case you want combo or stack power amp) dial down the effect of the cab and mic model when going through the amp. I believe the DT50 may also do the same, so by turning off the cab sims on the POD HD, you're not comparing like for like with the DT50.



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by Rowbi on 2011-01-21 09:22:12

JB1973 wrote:

You got me there, in most of my posts I stated "basically a 4 channel amp" meaning that it has 4 seperate accessible tones. I have stated many times that I was using channels meaning topology or voicings that I was not refering to A and B which is just variation of the same tone ..if you are using the amp alone and not with the podhd.

it is of course your choice to call the voicings channels, and try to convince yourself that it's a 4 channel amp.... but it's not.

I totally understand what you mean, but as I clearly outlined in the other thread, a lot of manufacturers (I listed the dual recto and also a marshall DSL) give you only 2 or 3 channels, and within those channels they give you different voicings.  the difference is that those other amps give you some voicings that are available on channel 1, and others that are available on channel 2 or 3... but what if you like the sound of 1 voicing and want 2 different settings for 1 voicing... you cant do it.

So along come line 6, they give you a 2 channel amp (that's how it's advertised, regardless of what some dumb store worker told you) and give you the flexibility to use any of the 4 voicings on either channel... then they also give you the ability to have a POD HD hooked up, with more amp models and extra goodies... you even have a POD HD with over 100 presets (effectively channels)... but you come back and ask for the ability to magic a 2 channel amp, into a 4 channel amp... hang on, I'm calling Mesa Engineering to ask them to make their dual recto into a 5 channel amp, as I'd rather think of their 3 channels as voicings, and their 5 voicings as channels................... Mr Boogie said no!!!

sarcasm mode off.

sorry to joke about it, but I just feel like you've taken the specs twisted them into something they're not and are now complaining they don't work the way you want.  in all honesty can you not get what you want on the channel front from the POD?  by just using 4 presets and treating it like it's controlling the amp, as the tone you get will be no different (but feel free to say it will be if you like).

Peace

Rowbi



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by JB1973 on 2011-01-21 09:57:26

Hey Rowbi

you have some very valid points bro...sorry I don't have time right now to go into sarcasm mode and attempt to be witty 8-)

My point which I am feeling sure by this point I did not make clear...or at least did not make clear in every post is that

the amp is completely switchable voicing/topology everything (yes into a "4 channel amp") by midi control. It has been done

already by Crusty and has been told by L6 in their blurbs about the amp was midi controlable. Crusty has answered my pm

and said he would attempt to make a youtube video this weekend and link it to my DT50 Control thread.  And since the podhd

is a midi controller that it was (assumedly) possible to have the pod switch voicings on the amp thus freeing up dsp etc.

Someone said in one of these threads that L6 has said they are or will work on this. I am not trying to be a jerk or make up

stuff on the forums, just trying to release my frustrations, get information from others who may have it (which is working very well

most of what I know came from you guys), and give back as much as possible. I see lots of threads with similar topics on multiple

forums (which go unanswered) and since I have the same questions and complaints I try to get the info and pass it on to others. I know that when I was able

to replicate the dt50 tones yesterday it was a weight off my shoulders. I then posted all the tones in my threads and on custom tone to let others who

wanted the capability feel the same relief.

People like you Rowbi are helping me and many others get this info, thank you for that! I would feel much worse trying to make sense of the new technology if not for the community.



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by Rowbi on 2011-01-21 10:20:51

JB1973 wrote:

Hey Rowbi

you have some very valid points bro...sorry I don't have time right now to go into sarcasm mode and attempt to be witty 8-)

My point which I am feeling sure by this point I did not make clear...or at least did not make clear in every post is that

the amp is completely switchable voicing/topology everything (yes into a "4 channel amp") by midi control. It has been done

already by Crusty and has been told by L6 in their blurbs about the amp was midi controlable. Crusty has answered my pm

and said he would attempt to make a youtube video this weekend and link it to my DT50 Control thread.  And since the podhd

is a midi controller that it was (assumedly) possible to have the pod switch voicings on the amp thus freeing up dsp etc.

Someone said in one of these threads that L6 has said they are or will work on this. I am not trying to be a jerk or make up

stuff on the forums, just trying to release my frustrations, get information from others who may have it (which is working very well

most of what I know came from you guys), and give back as much as possible. I see lots of threads with similar topics on multiple

forums (which go unanswered) and since I have the same questions and complaints I try to get the info and pass it on to others. I know that when I was able

to replicate the dt50 tones yesterday it was a weight off my shoulders. I then posted all the tones in my threads and on custom tone to let others who

wanted the capability feel the same relief.

People like you Rowbi are helping me and many others get this info, thank you for that! I would feel much worse trying to make sense of the new technology if not for the community.

I guess when you put it like that....

I think part of your issue stems from thinking that the HD and DT sound different.  but if you could get the same tones from both, then your issue would go away... wouldn't it?  because you could just use 4 presets in the POD to get your 4 channels, and they would sound identical to having the amp do the tones...  is that correct??

I've actually just done a little test with my HD400 and DT50, and here's what I found:

i setup 4 tones (attached), and things didn't sound quite the same... they were very close though... then I realised I'd left the noise gate turned on, on all 4 patches... so I turned that off... still not quite the same... then I thought, I can be very accurate with the controls in HD400 edit, but on the real amp there's always a chance the knob is pushed on the pot a couple of cents to one side, so after the of little tweak (1-2% either way that's all) on the controls, I got the same tone, on all 4 amp models...

I've updated the presets with the NR off... attached for anyone with an HD400... all the DT50 controls were at 50% apart from reverb was at 0

Rowbi



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by wolbai on 2011-01-21 11:12:47

Hi JB1973,

I am a DT50/HD500-user and over all I am - over all - very impressed on that highly sophisticated guitar-rig - still after my hoenymoon time.

I checked your patches before I wrote my question to Rowbi. My ears tell me that there is no need for dual pre amps to get the 4 original DT50-voicings.

My ears also tell me that there is no need to pan them in different ways via the mixer.  You are also using some FX-uitlities like short digital delay (ON ?!) in pre amp mode and different EQing on the pre amp models in your patches. I can't see a need for that (to achieve the original DT50 voicings with the POD/HD).

As I understand from Rowbi he recommended specific SINGLE pre amp models to get the same voicings as the DT50 while using the PD/HD. Thats what my ears tell me too. So things are may be much more easier than we are thinking: run the recommended pre amp models, choose the appropriate output setting and you should get the tone of the original T50-voicings and use the EQing like recommended on top of the DT50 as a starting point (again: this is what I am just hearing).

Another thing Rowbi says: the mentioned pre amp models are 100% identical between DT50 and POD/HD (and I assume that this is an offical Line 6 statement too). Having that said: why should there be a need for additional tweaking?

Any how: the DT50/HD-rig gives a lot of freedom to generate a variety of sounds  that satisfies every ones needs - and there could be more than one way to reach what you want.

My open question in that context is: whats is about the cab-sim/mic-sim setting? For me the answer could not be answered on a DT50-voicing base. There must be a YES or NO answer, if I refelct the discussion in that threat. (I only run the cab/mic-sims if i use the full amp models with the master volume pulled out where lower volume level is needed). Any ideas / experiences on that?

Regards.



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by wolbai on 2011-01-21 11:46:40

Hi Rowbi,

I will check your recommendation again to turn the cab/mic presets on to mimic the DT50-voicings via POD/HD pre amp models.

BUT:

Currently I am running 2 sets of patches (as recommended in different threads):

1. where I can get loud (rehearsal, Live):

Pre amp models, ouptut setting: Combo Power Amp (I am using a DT50/212), no cab/mic-sim.

2. where I have "lost the battle" (at home):

Full amp models (exception: JCM800), output setting: Studio Direct, on the DT50 side: NFL I, Class A, Pentode, master volume pulled out, (mostly) recommended cab/mic-sim presets.

And up to now I really get good results toneweise with these 2 setllists. (By the way: I choosed 4 amps out of 16 and these are more or less the ones which generates the 4 DT50-voicings in a standalone mode. The only difference is the JCM800 instead of Park-75. These 4 amps are working perfect and great for me as a classic rock coverband musician).

As I said: I will give this another try and I will come back with my "ear specific" results. At the end there could be only a YES or NO answer and not a DT50-voicing based one (means: for NFL I use the XYZ-cab/mic and for the NFL IV use no cab/sim) because that DT50/HD-rig seems to be complicated but it isn't.

Regards.



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by Rowbi on 2011-01-21 12:14:30

wolbai wrote:

Another thing Rowbi says: the mentioned pre amp models are 100% identical between DT50 and POD/HD (and I assume that this is an offical Line 6 statement too). Having that said: why should there be a need for additional tweaking?

My open question in that context is: whats is about the cab-sim/mic-sim setting? For me the answer could not be answered on a DT50-voicing base. There must be a YES or NO answer, if I refelct the discussion in that threat. (I only run the cab/mic-sims if i use the full amp models with the master volume pulled out where lower volume level is needed). Any ideas / experiences on that?

just wanted to jump in on those 2 points.

the top one.  if you meant about my comment saying you may need to tweak 1-2%, that's simply that in line 6 HD400 edit (where I edited the 4 tones to have exactly 50% settings on everything in the tone stack) on the DT50 amp it's obviously very difficult to be certain if you set the line on the knobs pointing straight up, they they are dead on 50%... a couple of % out on each knob may mean a difference in tone, so all I meant was I found for example the blackface tone, needed a tiny little tweak on the controls to sound dead on.  I'm not saying the settings were different, far from it.  I'm saying a tweak on the controls of the DT50 meant that it was then the same as the very accurately set hd400 edit screen and tone.

on your 2nd point, I;m sure there is something going on in the DT50 with cab and mic simulation, as part of the amp voicing.  otherwise the test I have just done, wouldn't have sounded the same.  so what I've done is confirm the DT50 uses cab and mic sims which are the default when you select the amp in the POD HD.



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by JB1973 on 2011-01-21 13:23:42

the delay might have been left a patch, but it in a sense if would not effect a sound comparison due to when turning off channel a and on to channel b, the effect would still be on and therfore sound the same. The low parameter delay effect on one (pre)amp is a trick to get a bit more definition, but I did not mean to leave it on when uploading the tone..my bad. As to my ears I was not satisfied comparing the tone (at the volume level I was using) using one preamp (the dt50 had a much bigger deeper tone) also I had to use cab sims on some patches (the clean I remember for sure) because again the dt50 had such a thick warm clean sound and I could not replicate on my end without 2 preamps and big cab sims to deepen the tone. Perhaps there is other ways to recreate the sound but in my jam room environment, at the volume level I was playing using full power mode ... the patches were identical to the dt50 alone settings. The scape changes I am sure at different volume levels and pulling out the volume knob. But hey if you can get the patches to sound right with one preamp and no cab... more power to you.. you will have more dsp free for effects or whatever you desire. Also I noted that yes when turning the dt50 knobs it does register on the hd500 but it did not translate to the same position, which was unexpected, also the edit program displayed somewhat different position as well. The hd500 also displays position for the actual amp when you turn channel b on but not the position dialed in on the amp.

Think of me as you will but I am glad I started this thread otherwise i'd never know what the dt50 settings were based on and I wouldnt have been able to recreate them, if it had been in the dt50 manual ...well I'd have a few hours of my life back.  Also on the cab modeling I wouldnt be surprised if the hd models in the dt50 use cab modeling. I'd be happy to try out your tones if you wished to upload them.

cheers

JB



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by JB1973 on 2011-01-21 13:30:03

To bad I can't try out your patches Rowbi...hd500 here. But very glad you could get the tones to work. This has been educational for sure. BTW I will not that I do have some patches that only use one preamp/amp and sounded worse to my ears using 2 or using a preamp/amp instead. It is interesting. But like i noted earlier to get my hd500 to sound like a dt50 big broad deep full sound I needed two preamps and some cab usage on some. But it worked! Arghh my son is gonna tear up the jam room got to run

JB



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by Rowbi on 2011-01-22 00:35:36

Rowbi wrote:

JB1973 wrote:

L6Miller we are aware of the amp off to get channel b

What we were asking for is either to be able to change from clean/crunch/chime/higain on the amp using the pod

or to at least know how to faithfully recreate the dt50 tone using preamps from the pod, which is not as easy as it

would seem

ok, here's what I know from reading various posts so far.

DT50 has 4 voicings, and 4 of them are the same as 4 of the POD HD amp models.  note that i say voicings when I refer to the DT50 and models when I refer to the POD HD... that's on purpose.  that is because when you switch the NFL switch on the DT50, it also selects the amp model, and together they make a voicing.  on the POD HD, you can select the amp model and it selects the default NFL, BUT you can then change the NFL(just the NFL) on the POD without it affecting the amp model part of it, to give you a different sound... cool or what!!

so, you must have the latest POD HD and DT50 firmware, having them out of sync will cause sound differences.

the pod hd MUST be in the correct live output mode, combo if using a DT50 combo, and stack if using a DT50 head and cab...

on the DT50 I think:

Voicing I: Fender Blackface

Voicing II: Park 75

Voicing III: AC 30TB

Voicing IV: Dual Recto (on the DT50 this uses NFL IV, on the POD HD, it defaults to III... remember I said the DT50 sounds were voicings... this is perhaps why they're called voicings.  so on the POD, select treadplate, and then change to NFL IV to sound like the DT50 voicing IV)

I hope this helps to sort out the whole "how do I get my POD HD to sound like my DT50??"  There is no conspiracy going on here, the models in both ARE the same..... exactly the same.  and using the L6 Link, everything is identical in what teh POD HD and DT50 does.... it's just that there are other things you can change on the POD so that it can sound different.  hance why I explained it as I see it here.

Cheers

Rowbi

ah I forgot to mention the POD should be outputting line level, not amp level.... on the line/amp switch to push the DT50 power amp the same as the DT's internal preamp.  just playing with my POD HD and thought I didn't mention how I have that set..  and that bit isn't totally obvious if you don't know how an amp works... you may think that it's connecting to a guitar amp so it needs to be amp... well if connecting to the front of a guitar amp you would need that lower level, but a preamp would always output at line level into a power amp, etc.

Cheers

Rowbi



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by wolbai on 2011-01-22 01:40:27

wolbai wrote:

Another  thing Rowbi says: the mentioned pre amp models are 100% identical  between DT50 and POD/HD (and I assume that this is an offical Line 6  statement too). Having that said: why should there be a need for  additional tweaking?

My  open question in that context is: whats is about the cab-sim/mic-sim  setting? For me the answer could not be answered on a DT50-voicing base.  There must be a YES or NO answer, if I refelct the discussion in that  threat. (I only run the cab/mic-sims if i use the full amp models with  the master volume pulled out where lower volume level is needed). Any  ideas / experiences on that?

just wanted to jump in on those 2 points.

the  top one.  if you meant about my comment saying you may need to tweak  1-2%, that's simply that in line 6 HD400 edit (where I edited the 4  tones to have exactly 50% settings on everything in the tone stack) on  the DT50 amp it's obviously very difficult to be certain if you set the  line on the knobs pointing straight up, they they are dead on 50%... a  couple of % out on each knob may mean a difference in tone, so all I  meant was I found for example the blackface tone, needed a tiny little  tweak on the controls to sound dead on.  I'm not saying the settings  were different, far from it.  I'm saying a tweak on the controls of the  DT50 meant that it was then the same as the very accurately set hd400  edit screen and tone.

on  your 2nd point, I;m sure there is something going on in the DT50 with  cab and mic simulation, as part of the amp voicing.  otherwise the test I  have just done, wouldn't have sounded the same.  so what I've done is  confirm the DT50 uses cab and mic sims which are the default when you  select the amp in the POD HD.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Rowbi,

the first comment reflects to JB1973 DT50- patches, not to your comment. As I understand from you, LINE 6 uses 100% the SAME pre amp models in the DT50 as in the POD/HD (BF Double, Park-75, VOX AC-30, Treadplate).


But I wanna say: I absolutely agree with JB1973 in the point that LINE6 has underestimated the need for DT50/HDXXX-users to clearly understand how to run the original DT50-voicings via the POD/HD. THIS IS A MISSING CHAPTER IN THE RECENT "L6 LINK CONNECTIVITY GUIDE":

- what amp models,

- what output-settings,

- what type of cab/mic-sim,

need to be set for that specific request.

There also should have been mentioned by LINE6 how to set the amp models, output-settings, cab/mic-sims for LOW VOLUME levels. A general tip like "the system parameters can be set differently to the users taste" is not really helpful in that case. I had missed a recommendation on that too. A lot of irritation, self testing, etc. in these formus had to be therefore obsolet.

I'm still looking foward in a very optimistical way because the DT50/HD-rig is so perfect to me and it is a leading technology. I understand that there are always some missing points in such a major product step LINE6 has - over all - successfully taken.

Regards.



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by Rowbi on 2011-01-22 01:49:38

wolbai wrote:

the first comment reflects to JB1973 DT50- patches, not to your comment. As I understand from you, LINE 6 uses 100% the SAME pre amp models in the DT50 as in the POD/HD (BF Double, Park-75, VOX AC-30, Treadplate).


But I wanna say: I absolutely agree with JB1973 in the point that LINE6 has underestimated the need for DT50/HDXXX-users to clearly understand how to run the original DT50-voicings via the POD/HD. THIS IS A MISSING CHAPTER IN THE RECENT "L6 LINK CONNECTIVITY GUIDE":

- what amp models,

- what output-settings,

- what type of cab/mic-sim,

need to be set for that specific request.

There also should have been mentioned by LINE6 how to set the amp models, output-settings, cab/mic-sims for LOW VOLUME levels. A general tip like "the system parameters can be set differently to the users taste" is not really helpful in that case. I had missed a recommendation on that too. A lot of irritation, self testing, etc. in these formus had to be therefore obsolet.

I'm still looking foward in a very optimistical way because the DT50/HD-rig is so perfect to me and it is a leading technology. I understand that there are always some missing points in such a major product step LINE6 has - over all - successfully taken.

Regards.

I've actually suggest to L6 that there's an FAQ document created for it.  maybe it should go into the advanced manual too.  you make some good points.

sorry for my misunderstanding.  sometimes on forums it's hard to understand who's talking to who :-)

from my own personal point of view, the only confusing bit was the dual recto model in the HD vs the dual recto voicing in the DT50 not sharing by default the same NFL, but the rest was obvious to me when I thought about it.  maybe I've just been using L6 gear for so long, as I guess have the people making these things at Line 6... so to say the models are the same, seems like how to set the rest up would seem obvious.... but I guess you're telling L6 (and me) that it's not. and your opinion as a user is just as valid as mine or line 6's.

Cheers

Rowbi



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by wolbai on 2011-01-22 03:00:29

I've actually suggest to L6 that there's an FAQ document created for  it.  maybe it should go into the advanced manual too.  you make some  good points.

sorry for my misunderstanding.  sometimes on forums it's hard to understand who's talking to who :-)

from  my own personal point of view, the only confusing bit was the dual  recto model in the HD vs the dual recto voicing in the DT50 not sharing  by default the same NFL, but the rest was obvious to me when I thought  about it.  maybe I've just been using L6 gear for so long, as I guess  have the people making these things at Line 6... so to say the models  are the same, seems like how to set the rest up would seem obvious....  but I guess you're telling L6 (and me) that it's not. and your opinion  as a user is just as valid as mine or line 6's.

Cheers

Rowbi

---------------------------------------

Hi Rowbi, thanks for your efforts. I am pretty shure that actual and new DT50/HDXXX-user will benefit from an offical LINE6 paper (FAQ or chapter in the link manual) how to run the original DT50 voicings via pre amp models an the POD/HD AND how to run the rig for LOW VOLUME level.

The possibilty to switch amp models ON and OFF via a FS-assign is not a working solution to me if I want to use a specific pre defined channel-B DT50-voicing. Because as a live oriented musician I can not see how to level huge volume differences (for example the Treadplate model on channel A if the amp model is ON and VOX AC-30 as the default B-channel if I switch the amp model OFF) with ONE mixer in the same patch. This is a knock out criteria to me. Any midi solution other than the L6 link when using the POD/HD with the DT50 seems to me the wrong road too. But again: I think all these different ways/discussions how to control the DT50 other then the L6 link while using a POD/HD are an outcome of a lack of really needed information to the user.

Regards.



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by JB1973 on 2011-01-22 07:31:47

Hey guys

On my hd500 the line/amp switch is states only for 1/4" are you saying that if connected through the L6 link that the line/amp will be effective or is this an internal setup that I am not aware of, when plugged into the dt50 the hd defaults to combo pweramp?

Also yes I have to agree as stated in my earlier posts (and posting of patches) that the preamps are the same (with tweeking) as the amp, however like said above without proper documentation and perhaps because I am not enough of a gear head I needed a push in the right direction. Thanks to all those pushing...

It would seem to this nongear head that L6 could do a much better (which seems weird to say considering I printed out a considerable amount of manuals) of demo/guide have someone dedicated to do nothing but demos of how to do stuff on the new and old gear. I know there is some but the ones for the podhd are very simple basic and limited.

On another note and I do not know if I showed my arse in here or other threads but somehow I got it in my head that the dt50 does not switch voicings and that channel A and B were of the same voicing always. When my amp spazzed out on me yesterday (voicing 3 lost its balls somehow and I had to reinstall firmware) I did find it (after reinstall) was remembering different voicings per channel A and B. So most of my complaints went out of the window with that seeminly obvious revelation. But I think its important to not only to acknowledge my findings but also my mistakes.

cheers



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by Rowbi on 2011-01-22 07:45:54

I can't test it right now, but in my mind it should be set to line.  the other output modes also affect the L6 Link.  why not set it up to line, and while it's all switched on switch it to amp.  I think it'll reduce the volume.

I assume you have a DT50 combo then, as it does default in the new FW 1.20 to the correct amp as the L6Link can see the DT50.  but that's the output cab and mic compensation for being into a combo power amp, the amp/line is simply the output level and doesn't affect the tone.  but with a tube power amp you need it to line, as all prewamps output at line level (or should)..  L6 just gives you the flexibility 'just in case' you need amp level.

ah I see where you're coming from with the channels/voicings thing... Chan A and B, 'CAN' be the same voicing if you want.. that's the added extra feature that most other amps wont give you.  but it lets you choose which of the 4 voicings, topology and pentode/triode you want for channel A, and then totally seperate from that you have the same settigns available on channel B to do what you like.  no presets and all the rotary knobs are not stored (they are at the setting hte same as the knob position... BUT if you change voicing, class and pent/triode those 3 settings will remember for chan A and sepsrately for chan B, until you manually change them, when you're on the specific channel...  to me that's the best of all worlds, and also very simple for people who want a 'proper' tube amp and not a spider valve with its LCD screen, and lots of presets and FX... not knocking that though, just I know some people that just want a straight forward tube amp, and I think L6 have a good idea to then be able to expand on it when using the POD HD if you want..



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by Rowbi on 2011-01-22 09:38:06

Rowbi wrote:

I can't test it right now, but in my mind it should be set to line.  the other output modes also affect the L6 Link.  why not set it up to line, and while it's all switched on switch it to amp.  I think it'll reduce the volume.

I assume you have a DT50 combo then, as it does default in the new FW 1.20 to the correct amp as the L6Link can see the DT50.  but that's the output cab and mic compensation for being into a combo power amp, the amp/line is simply the output level and doesn't affect the tone.  but with a tube power amp you need it to line, as all prewamps output at line level (or should)..  L6 just gives you the flexibility 'just in case' you need amp level.

load of rubbish.  i was wrong there.  seems like it has no effect on the L6Link on the HD500 (I asked someone with an HD500 to check for me).  I've not had time to check on my HD400 but I will, but I'm assuming it'll be the same.



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by JB1973 on 2011-01-26 12:37:38

Well I had better luck with the patches going one preamp + cab using

  I: Fender Blackface Deluxe
  II: Marshall Plexi JTM 75
  III: Vox AC30
  IV: Treadplate + voicing IV on amp

cheers

J



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by Rowbi on 2011-01-26 15:29:10

Isn't that sort of what I said a few posts back? The treadplate is the recto model and it is a park 75 not a Marshall jtm 75. But that aside I am glad u got it sorted :)



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by JB1973 on 2011-01-26 16:32:52

Hell you probably did and I didn't follow or something...but i did read it on a post and nope

my big dumb head didn't figure it out on its own...

which L6Perry had sorted us right to begin with ... or even had it in the manual to begin with

I been working on this off and on for 2 months



Re: RE: pre- amp model question
by JB1973 on 2011-01-28 10:14:42

Since I posted my patches for soundalike dt50 thought I'd better post

more accurate patches now that I have it in my head....




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