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HD500 Volume Pedal Audio Spike Issue - Try this
by Nick_Mattocks on 2011-01-08 09:22:01

I've just been playing around with the Volume pedal and looking at this audio spike issue.  I haven't cured it as such, but try placing your volume pedal pre the amp block.  I've done this on a few of my patches as an experiment and it does seem to have produced a 'cure' of sorts in that in the patches I've tried it with there is no spike.  YMMV, but I believe it's worth those of you who really rely on this working properly trying this out for yourselves.  I do understand and believe that the pedal should be able to work in any position pre or post amp block but doing it the way I've outlined does seem to work OK based on limited testing just now

Regards

Nick



Re: HD500 Volume Pedal Audio Spike - Try this
by timowens on 2011-01-08 10:08:39

Hey Nick, this is a great idea and it kind of makes sense. If the volume pedal is post amp, the volume spike would include all the gain of the amp, if it is pre amp then the volume spike would not include the amp gain so depending on the amount of amp gain, the spike could be significantly less. Of course placing the volume pedal before the amp changes the way it affects your tone, but for some people like me, we like it before the amp because you can use it to back off the gain just like with the volume on your guitar.



Re: HD500 Volume Pedal Audio Spike - Try this
by Nick_Mattocks on 2011-01-08 10:16:24

Thanks Tim

Yes that was my thinking too.  This won't satisfy everyone's needs I'm sure, but if it helps a few people out at least...

Now the other ting that's just popped into my head and it's probably total nonsense is to try two volume pedals assigned to Exp 2 POST amp block - OK - it would be a waste of a block, and it almost certainly won't do the job anyway - but what the heck - I'm going to try it as i've thought of it now and won't rest until I know for sure LOL



Re: HD500 Volume Pedal Audio Spike - Try this
by Nick_Mattocks on 2011-01-08 10:27:06

Hmmm.... getting some different behaviour now on the volume pedal in front of the amp block, so maybe that isn't going to do it but the doubling up of a volume pedal post amp seems to get rid of the spike post amp.  Just experimenting and it's early days.

Nick



Re: HD500 Volume Pedal Audio Spike - Try this
by Nick_Mattocks on 2011-01-08 10:42:47

No - as you were.  I was running Edit at the same time (Duh!).  OK - two volume pedals right at the end of the chain works, BUT so does one   If I ditch one of those pedals it still works OK, but if I then move the volume pedal in front of the reverb thereby making the reverb the last effect, the spike is back.  That kind of makes sense too as the reverb will be being fed with a signal although in theory the position of the volume pedal should stop it in its tracks.   Obviously a bit more experimentation needs to occur witgh the positioning of the volume pedal in the signal chain.  Anyone else feel free to chip in and try a few things, but maybe there's some food for thought here...

Nick



Re: HD500 Volume Pedal Audio Spike Issue - Try this
by jeffwatt on 2011-01-08 10:57:05

Like many of you, I manage my volume level by assigning EXP 1 to the amp's output parameter, instead of loading a volume pedal into an fx block. This probably won't be much help, but I thought I'd state for the record that the volume spike still occurs when using this technique.



Re: HD500 Volume Pedal Audio Spike Issue - Try this
by Nick_Mattocks on 2011-01-08 11:16:16

Thanks for looking into it.  I am still playing around with it and I now have four presets with the volume pedal at the end of the chain and ALL of them which were displaying the spike are now not displaying the spike.  I'm not 100% sure what's happened to apparently resolve the issue here on those presets.  I've actually just found that moving the volume pedal pre the reverb which in reality I do like to have last, the problem doesn't appear either - it's weird as to why it seems to be working perfectly on those patches now.  However, what I have done is to remove the effect completely, then re-populate the FX slot with the Volume pedal again before re-saving it.  Now I just wonder whether it's relative to patches saved prior to this update only and whether in fact the issue has been fixed if you effectively re-assign the Volume effect and update the patch by saving it - that would be a likely scenario.  I am definitely not hearing the spike when switching between these patches on my HD500 here.  Try these in an empty bank if you like and see what happens.  Something is definitely going on and it looks promising - if only I could be sure it is consistent.  I have access to another HD500 belonging to a friend so I'll try my updated patches on his unit which will better help me confirm whether the new behaviour I'm seeing is a fluke. But feel free to load these four patches up and switch between them with the expression pedal heel down.  BTW the latest edits were done on the POD HD500 and not in Edit

Nick



Re: HD500 Volume Pedal Audio Spike Issue - Try this
by Nick_Mattocks on 2011-01-08 11:43:27

OK

I have tested these four patches on my friend's HD500 and they don't display the spike at all.  Other patches totally created with an earlier firmware version still spike, but these which have had the volume pedal settings modified by re-establishing the whole effect from scratch in the context of an existing preset continue to behave properly on both HD500 units.   This I have to say is looking promising that the issue may have been fixed - I'm saying that very cautiously - on the basis that the Volume Pedal needs to be taken out completely and then put back in again.  The fact that I'm seeing the ssme behaviour on two HD500's (one which hasn't been updated to the latest f/w, but which is using presets effectively created from new on the one that is running 1.20) gives me some confidence that it's actually looking good.

Can someone try my four presets on their unit and then create a brand new preset from scratch with a Volume Pedal and see what happens please?

Thanks

Nick 



Re: HD500 Volume Pedal Audio Spike Issue - Try this
by Texxxxx on 2011-01-08 16:56:21

OMG!!!!  I think you found it, Nick.  When I load these four patches, no spike.  When I go back to your original 4x12 Full (that I turned into a 4x12 pre) and remove and then re-add the volume pedal to the 4 high gain Engl channels in that bank, NO SPIKE between them!!!

Obviously I have an HD500...again....

I traded my 400 back on Thursday and got another 500...it bought me another month of 'grace period'.  The guys at Guitar Center must hate me by now.

But that is beside the point, it really looks like the spike is gone when you remove and re-add the volume pedal to your existing patches.

+1000 for your perseverance, Nick...Thank You.  This is huge for me.  I am kind of holding my breath, as I don't quite believe it yet, but I think you found out that it is fixed.

Line 6 might have mentioned it...lol.

Hey you guys...some more of you try it!



Re: HD500 Volume Pedal Audio Spike Issue - Try this
by jeff5x0 on 2011-01-08 20:35:02

Tried it here with 4 patches and so far its working. Thanks Nick.



Re: HD500 Volume Pedal Audio Spike Issue - Try this
by racetra on 2011-01-08 21:03:34

Hey Nick, I havent been lookin for this but I dont think I am getting a spike when switchin patches. I run my volume through the efx loop. I remember hearin that spike when I was using pedal 1 & 2. I have been playing with the setup I have now and dont recall hearin it lately. Like I said, I havent been lookin for it though. I will check it out further tomorrow if I get a chance.



Re: HD500 Volume Pedal Audio Spike Issue - Try this
by Nick_Mattocks on 2011-01-08 22:23:35

If you've created patches containing a Volume Pedal since updating to f/w 1.20 then those patches almost certainly won't have a spike, but earlier patches probably will



Re: HD500 Volume Pedal Audio Spike Issue - Try this Recipe to Fix the Problem
by Nick_Mattocks on 2011-01-08 22:24:17

Recipe for fix:

Save all existing presets as individual presets, set lists or a bundle to computer

Update to f/w 1.20 and opt NOT to retain existing presets

Reload patches, set lists or bundles

Go through ALL patches with a Volume Pedal on the unit itself (Edit should work the same way)

Remove the Volume Pedal effect completely

Put in a new instance of the Volume Pedal effect in ANY position

Save the patch

Test selecting the patch with the expression pedal in heel down position

Nick



Re: HD500 Volume Pedal Audio Spike Issue - Try this Recipe to Fix the Problem
by alfaphlex on 2011-01-09 05:46:10

nick, I really appreciate your efforts to helps us, but unfortunately, and I hate breaking bad news, the volume spike has NOT been fixed with this latest patch.

I ran some tests and discovered that the volume spike still occurs, but at the volume your saved your patch at. So only if you saved your patch with the volume pedal at 0, you will not be able to hear the volume spike when you return to it. However, save it at any volume above zero and you will here it upon returning to said patch. Not a fix, but a workaround I suppose. I tested this with both empty patches and well as your patches.

Also, this only works with the volume pedal post amp. With both empty patches and modifying yours, if you place the volume pedal pre amp, you will hear a volume spike regardless of what volume you set when save your patch. Amusingly, some of yours make a "pew-pew" type sound when the "spike" happens, lol.

To test it:

1) Select brand new patch.

2) Select amp model

3) Place volume pedal pre amp.

4) Manually set volume to 0 (knob 4). Don't switch to exp2 (this ensure we lock volume at 0)

5) Save patch.

6) Strum guitar and press patch button to reload patch. You will hear volume spike.

If you want to test post amp, follow 1-6 above and:

1) Move vol pedal post amp and save patch.

2) Strum guitar while pressing patch button to reload patch. No "audible" spike, but...

3) Go to mixer, raise volume A to 12db and save patch.

4) Strum guitar while reloading patch. You will now hear spike with vol. pedal post amp. (will not be loud so don't worry if using headphones).

I reinstalled 1.2 (no saved patches) a couple of times while testing this to make sure I had consistent results and I did. I even rolled back to 1.1 to see if the volume-at-0 post amp workaround worked, but it didn't.

Again, thanks for trying to help.



Re: HD500 Volume Pedal Audio Spike Issue - Try this Recipe to Fix the Problem
by Nick_Mattocks on 2011-01-09 06:03:43

Hi

Thanks for the feedback.  I'm not getting the same results as you which is a bit weird, but disappointing if you are seeing the spike issue still.  I'm 99% sure I didn't save my presets with volume at zero and I'm not getting the spike.  I'm not trying to disagree with your experience, just saying that my experience is not the same - so now I'm wondering why. The behaviour has definitely changed from f/w version 1.1.  Can you post a few presets that you've made/modified please?  It would be useful to compare.

Thanks

regards

Nick

Edit:

OK I do see/hear the similar toyou BUT only when the HD500 is connected to my PC with Edit running but not when the HD500 is stand-alone which is how it would be used in the wild.  Can you confirm whether Edit is connected and running when you still hear the spike please?

Message was edited by: nickmattocks



Re: HD500 Volume Pedal Audio Spike Issue - Try this Recipe to Fix the Problem
by alfaphlex on 2011-01-09 06:13:32

My patches are absolutely nothing but stock hi-gain amp model + vol pedal set at 0 placed before amp. That's it. Installed 1.2 a couple of times with no saved patches and I've gotten the same consistent result.

If I load yours and place the vol pedal before the amp, still get the spike.



Re: HD500 Volume Pedal Audio Spike Issue - Try this Recipe to Fix the Problem
by alfaphlex on 2011-01-09 06:29:02

I didn't use Edit at all. I never use Edit except only to backup/load patches or bundles.

Everything right from the HD500 itself exactly as I described on page 1.



Re: HD500 Volume Pedal Audio Spike Issue - Try this Recipe to Fix the Problem
by Nick_Mattocks on 2011-01-09 06:31:48

Yes - agreed.  I hear the spike with the volume pedal before the amp model, but not when placed after and with no connection to Edit.   With the volume level saved at zero and the effect placed before the amp model i do hear a litle 'pew' noise.   It is not totally fixed.  However it will work consistently POST amp model in all of my presets on both HD500's I have here, and that should be a similar experience for other users.  Thanks for testing and reporting back.

Nick



Re: HD500 Volume Pedal Audio Spike Issue - Try this Recipe to Fix the Problem
by olerabbit on 2011-01-09 07:27:07

I'm confused.

Nick wrote: "I hear the spike with the volume pedal before the amp model ... However it will work consistently POST ...".

amgamg wrote in another Thread of today: "I always put my volume pedal before..so no volume spikes." http://line6.com/community/message/224541

Soit may depend on the unit? Really?

That's sounds even more confusing to me.



Re: HD500 Volume Pedal Audio Spike Issue - Try this Recipe to Fix the Problem
by Nick_Mattocks on 2011-01-09 07:49:09

Hi Gunter

Yes - I agree it does seem to be confusing.  I am somewhat confused now too.   When I was initially experimenting yesterday afternoon, I was able to achieve a satisfactory result (i.e. no spike) with the Volume Pedal Pre amp model just by moving the existing Volume Pedal configuration saved as part of a patch created in f/w 1.1, yet today that doesn't seem to work.  Later experiments revealed I was barking up the wrong tree and that the key to getting rid of the volume spike was to delete the existing volume pedal, then re-create it and yesterday it seemed to make no difference whether the Volume Pedal was Pre or Post amp model.  Today however there is a small blip if the Volume Pedal is saved in a Pre-amp model spot and with the expression pedal at heel down.   If the patch is saved but with the expression pedal at toe down there is the 'normal' spike.  There has to be some logic going on, and where it is obvious it is explainable and that's what seemed to be the case yesterday, but today it has made me an unintentional liar - which is sometimes the way of these things LOL

I can confirm with a high degree of certainty that it will be the same for everyone else, that if you place a new instance of the Volume Pedal post amp model and save it in the heel-down position that you won't hear a spike at all.  This will be satisfactory for a number of users I'm sure, but I can't claim the problem is fully fixed as I felt it might have been earlier today unfortunately which is a little disappointing, but it wouldn't be right to say it's fixed in every way.  The behaviour now is however much better in that the Volume Pedal can be used effectively if saved in the right position in the signal chain.  When I started experimenting yesterday, my aim was simply to try and find a practical way around the issue, which I still think I have, but it won't suit everyone unfortunately.

I will continue to try and get to the bottom of exactly what's happening, and if at least i can explain it to myself then I might be able to nail it down - I think the problem is close to being completely solved and although I was starting to think that it was solved, it wasn't quite that clear cut.

I currently have two HD500's here in the house (mine and someone else's) and can confirm that I see identical behaviour on both which leads me to belive that it will be more likely to be consistent elsewhere too.

Nick



Re: HD500 Volume Pedal Audio Spike Issue - Try this
by amgamg on 2011-01-09 08:10:43

In the event that it might help at all...I'm doing everything on the unit itself. After I create a patch I than put vol next to in front of the amp..than a wah in front of the vol. At this point the patch wont sound. I than put it on the floor...step on the pedal its now sounding on the volume pedal..than I click it again and I'm on wah. I click it again to go back to volume and with toe down I save it. Thing is I was baffled until I saw your post about before and after placement of the volume pedal cause I never got the peaks.when I tried to get them I still didnt when changing patches. I did notice I always placed it before in the order I describe above.Other than that I dunno.



Re: HD500 Volume Pedal Audio Spike Issue - Try this
by Nick_Mattocks on 2011-01-09 08:23:01

Thanks.  yes it does help.  I have just moved the Volume pedal on one of my patches so it's in front of the amp - and guess what - no spike, however with other patches and different amp models i can get the spike.  when placing the Volume Pedal post amp model it appears to work every time.  I am scratching my head again on this one - it's certainly puzzling



Re: HD500 Volume Pedal Audio Spike Issue - Try this
by Texxxxx on 2011-01-09 10:10:38

Yes, there is definately some wierdness going on, but managable wierdness, for me, at least.

Yesterday at the end of the day I brought the minimum volume on one of the 4x12 Blackface patches up to 20% and messed around a bit.  I turned it back to zero...never saved at the 20% point and edit was not on.  This morning I get a small (maybe 20%?) spike on my Blackface bank, and the next two banks that I changed the volume pedal on, as well...Highway and whatever #3 is...Gibson?  I haven't  changed the VP in banks 4-15, yet.

I don't get the spike on the #16 Engl bank (that I changed 1st and probably powered off the 500 after, to post in my excitement), nor in the four patches that you posted yesterday...that I did at the same time as the Engl bank.

I removed the VP in the first three banks and re-added it...all is well.

Screwy, for sure, but much better.



Re: HD500 Volume Pedal Audio Spike Issue - Try this
by Xsample33 on 2011-01-09 12:43:52

If it helps any...

I tried just for kick and in my case, it seems to be fixed as far as the post section goes.

I tried it on many patches, including Nick's latest Led Zep tone, which had a volume pedal after the amp.

Before removing the volume assignment and putting it back I had the spike, and once I did it, it was not there anymore, the same with the other patches in that bank...

HTH



Re: HD500 Volume Pedal Audio Spike Issue - Try this
by jeff5x0 on 2011-01-09 17:54:57

+1



Re: HD500 Volume Pedal Audio Spike Issue - Try this Recipe to Fix the Problem
by greghall on 2011-01-14 02:29:21

I noticed the volume spike issue for the first time yesterday, after downloading a couple of tones from custom tone. I am on 1.2 firmware.

I decided to calibrate the volume pedal (which I hadn't done yet), before trying the fix described above - and it solved the issue.

Thought I'd post this, in case anyone else has this problem and hasn't calibrated the pedal.



Re: HD500 Volume Pedal Audio Spike Issue - Try this Recipe to Fix the Problem
by Nick_Mattocks on 2011-01-14 03:05:22

Thanks.  Good call.   Remember that tones on Custom Tone created pre f/w 1.2 may seem to carry the Volume Spike issue over to f/w 1.2 until you remove the Volume Pedal effect and then re-instate it.  What you have found may be another way of resolving the issue and possibly with older presets but without having to tinker around with it as I had previously found.  If recalibrating cures the issue globally or at worst if it makes it usable, that would be a major boost, but this one isn't an easy one to get around and last weekend I thought I had found stability and a possible cure a few times before landing on removing and restoring the Volume Pedal settings which appears to be the most stable resolution so far for most people that have reported back.

It's never a bad move to recalibrate after a firmware update.  In fact some firmware updates may throw calibration out of whack occasionally.

Regards

Nick




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