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JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Octo777 on 2011-02-17 17:14:27

I recently got myself a Vax Acoustic 700 and I love it. It made sense for me to buy it as a friend and I had discussed starting an acoustic project but had put it off due to ideas above our station, until the Variax made all these ideas possible. That and the Ac 700 models a bunch of guitars I would never go and buy and actual version of.

Now that I'm loving the versatility of the Ac 700, and given that I am actually prodominantly a metal player getting my hands on a JTV 89 would make sense given I use most of the pre loaded tunings it contains, I love the look of the guitar and James Tyler has a great rep in the guitar world in general.

The flaw I think I have spotted however, puts me off and that is this: Despite the JTV 89 obviously being geared to metal/shredders, it still only only models vintage guitars.......

I seriously doubt I would be able to get the satisfactory modern tones I am used to getting from my PRS and my Ibanez, especially when getting down and low with the alt tunings from the likes of modelled 50's LP or a 60's tele.

From this kind of guitar I would have expected to see some modelled Ibanez, Jacksons, ESP's, you know? Actual metal guitars with authentic metal sounds.....

Unless of course I am missing a trick and the magnetic pick ups are affected by the alt tunings but I don't see any evidence of that...

If anyone can shed some light on this I would greatly appreicate it, but I right now, reckon this is actually a pretty serious flaw in the JTV 89.



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by TheRealZap on 2011-02-17 18:26:17

you are correct that you cant alt tune the mags...

but you need to think of the guitar models as a starting point... since you can do wonderous things in workbench.

you can take the vintage guitar and give it hotter pickups, change positions... etc etc



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by laelamiles on 2011-02-17 20:07:58

Maybe this is why the JTV 89 is not selling as well as the other models.

Anyway, since you're obviously not stuck into the whole metal/shredding rut, you should still get the guitar since it will open up the door for new ideas and projects... including acoustic stuff and workbench magic.



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Octo777 on 2011-02-18 13:05:22

@The Real Zap: That's definitely more interesting but still not what I would be expecting from spending so much on that particular model.

I've looked, but I can't seem to find any iformation in regards to exactly what pick ups and what they are based on can be used when starting from scratch.  Anyone know where I can find this information?

laelamiles wrote:

Maybe this is why the JTV 89 is not selling as well as the other models.

Anyway, since you're obviously not stuck into the whole metal/shredding rut, you should still get the guitar since it will open up the door for new ideas and projects... including acoustic stuff and workbench magic.

I don't have access to sales figures and what not, but if the JTV 89 isn't selling well, then I wouldn't be surprised if my issues are at least partly responsible.

As for getting one anyway, I couldn't commit to a nearly a grand for a guitar like that without knowing if I wasn't going to be produce the sounds I am after, especially when I already have the Ac 700.



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by TheRealZap on 2011-02-18 13:11:57

admitedly i wouldn't know where to start to build a guitar even virtual either....

but with 25 choices, and the included mags... and the fact that you are going to have infinite controls with amps/effects etc....

not to mention some of the simple workbench adjustments like making the pickups hotter might be enough....

you'd have to be about the pickiest sumbitch on earth if you can't find something usable

(no offense, of course... just making a point)

also the models are the same as the previous variax line...

there is always talk of possible model packs...

which never happened last time, as a guess i would say that was due to the variax not taking off like they'd hoped.

and also a custom tone sharing kind of thing among the people here on the forums...



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by laelamiles on 2011-02-18 13:14:47

Ah ok.  That makes sense.  If price is an issue and you aren't interested by any of the models, then it doesn't make sense for you. 

Workbench will let you work with existing pickups as base, but as far as I know no new pickups will be added to the mix.  But if you don't want to be messing around with your computer, than it's just not for you.



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Octo777 on 2011-02-18 13:30:35

TheRealZap wrote:

admitedly i wouldn't know where to start to build a guitar even virtual either....

but with 25 choices, and the included mags... and the fact that you are going to have infinite controls with amps/effects etc....

not to mention some of the simple workbench adjustments like making the pickups hotter might be enough....

you'd have to be about the pickiest sumbitch on earth if you can't find something usable

(no offense, of course... just making a point)

also the models are the same as the previous variax line...

there is always talk of possible model packs...

which never happened last time, as a guess i would say that was due to the variax not taking off like they'd hoped.

and also a custom tone sharing kind of thing among the people here on the forums...

In my honest opinion, I think the mags are pointless on a variax.

I mean, whats the point in having a guitar where one of it's major features is the ability to retune at the turn of a dial and then adding in magnetic pick ups that don't utilise the feature? You are perpetually stuck to standard tuning on the mags.

It's fine if you play all your stuff in standard tuning, but if you are shelling out for a variax, I'm betting you don't....

I don't doubt there are there might be some usable tones after tweaking, but when shelling out that much cash for what is supposed to be a shredders guitar, I don't see why I should have to go in depth to get those tones which further highlights my flaw in the 89. It's been made and marketed as a metal guitar, without having the proper modelling features that I would expect from a metal guitar, apart from the tuning presets which are perfect.

I think for the 89 to be working out of the box, they need to be modelling a few guitars made post 1980. Hell, at very least model some metal pick ups like some Seymor Duncans, Bare Knuckles and EMG's. Stick those onto a modern strat or LP shape and you are into a winner.

laelamiles wrote:

Ah ok.  That makes sense.  If price is an issue and you aren't interested by any of the models, then it doesn't make sense for you. 

Workbench will let you work with existing pickups as base, but as far as I know no new pickups will be added to the mix.  But if you don't want to be messing around with your computer, than it's just not for you.

Messing around on the computer wouldn't bother me, but as I said to Zap in my response above, I don't see why I should have to. For a modelling guitar meant for metal/shredders, I was expecting metal features. Not the same old same old.



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by MartinHines on 2011-02-18 14:11:27

Octo777 wrote:

In my honest opinion, I think the mags are pointless on a variax.

I mean, whats the point in having a guitar where one of it's major features is the ability to retune at the turn of a dial and then adding in magnetic pick ups that don't utilise the feature? You are perpetually stuck to standard tuning on the mags.

Having real magnetic pickups (that can be used without Variax technology) was the number one requested improvement for the original variax electric guitars.



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by laelamiles on 2011-02-18 14:18:04

I really dig having the mag pickups on the 59.  I would hate it if I didn't have them, and the chance to put in, say, a couple of Duncans.  Got to disagree with you there.  Also the mags are a good backup and let you appreciate the sound of the wood more than the Variax circuit does anyway.

I'm not too fond of the tuning functionality anyway, because it clashes with the tuning of the strings.  This is definitely another "flaw" though it is basically by design and unfixable.  What I mean is that the tuning coming out of the amp is going to differ from the tuning that comes straight from the guitar.  That just sucks, but it works in some settings, especially if you are slightly deaf...  and it definitely can be useful.

Honestly, you have us all convinced that the JTV 89 is not for you.



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Octo777 on 2011-02-18 14:39:00

I really really don't understand why people wanted Mags on the Variax. It almost seems like a step backwards to me.

If I wan't to play through mags and be stuck to Standard tuning, I'm going to play either my standard tuned PRS or my Ibanez (I rotate them between standard and drop C/B) before a Variax, hands down.

And I disagree, the clashing of tunings of the ambient strings vs the modelled notes is not a flaw in the slightest because when you play at a decent volume you never hear the ambient strings anyway, particularly on an Electric Guitar. If anything, I encounter that issue more what with having the Acoustic 700, but it's never been significant enough to cause an actual problem.

And I disagree further, as I actually think that with the right features the JTV 89 would be PERFECT for me, especially when I have a bunch of students that like to learn and play stuff ranging in tunings ranging from Drop B right up to Standard. But as it is with no modern sounds being modelled? Not so much.

At this point, if I was going to get another metal guitar, I'd rather spend the £900 on either another PRS or an ESP.



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by laelamiles on 2011-02-18 15:04:31

Well, I tried to explain why I liked the mag pickups... I don't want a PRS or Ibanez, I want the JTV to be a great guitar in its own right, even without Variax in the picture.

As for the discordant tuning not being a problem...  see my note re: being slightly deaf...  I can definitely see it being useful in that situation, even a studio setting where you are wearing headphones (which would basically function as earplugs for ambient sound) or when your amp is set too loud for your own good.

The JTV 89 is not your ideal idea of what it should be... the reality just doesn't match your expectations.  So in that respect it isn't for you and it's certainly not "perfect" for you or match your needs in any way.  Maybe it could have been your perfect guitar, but it just isn't today.  That is *not* going to change any time soon.



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Octo777 on 2011-02-18 15:36:05

laelamiles wrote:

Well, I tried to explain why I liked the mag pickups... I don't want a PRS or Ibanez, I want the JTV to be a great guitar in its own right, even without Variax in the picture.

As for the discordant tuning not being a problem...  see my note re: being slightly deaf...  I can definitely see it being useful in that situation, even a studio setting where you are wearing headphones (which would basically function as earplugs for ambient sound) or when your amp is set too loud for your own good.

The JTV 89 is not your ideal idea of what it should be... the reality just doesn't match your expectations.  So in that respect it isn't for you and it's certainly not "perfect" for you or match your needs in any way.  Maybe it could have been your perfect guitar, but it just isn't today.  That is *not* going to change any time soon.

I understand why people want mag pick ups, the part I don't understand is why they want/need them on a Variax. A modelling guitar shouldn't need to stand up in it's own right with mag pick ups because it shouldn't need mag pick ups in the first place...

It's the equivelent of putting a steering wheel on a motorbike. Sure, it might be functional to a certain extent but for the most part defeats the purpose of having a motorbike in the first place....

Now as for the next part, I can't tell if you are just trying to be funny and I'm not getting the joke, OR if you are implying that you can hear the ambient strings of an electric guitar over an amp while playing at a performance level....because if you can, your hearing is a gazillion better times than mine and I feel sorry for you as that to me is a flaw in your hearing and still not a flaw in the Vax!

Don't get me wrong, I love Variax and the tech that Line 6 have developed. That tech has become invaluable to me since I got my Ac 700 and my POD HD 500 and who knows? I may very well end up getting an electric variax at some point in the future.

As it stands I know for certain it won't be the JTV 89 unless some significant upgrades are made. Sadly, I think you are right and I don't see that happening any time soon.



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by laelamiles on 2011-02-18 16:52:11

Yep, there is definitely some miscomprehension going on.  To summarize, I agreed with you on most points except for the mag pickups.

Octo777 wrote:

I understand why people want mag pick ups, the part I don't understand is why they want/need them on a Variax. A modelling guitar shouldn't need to stand up in it's own right with mag pick ups because it shouldn't need mag pick ups in the first place...

It's an expectations issue.  Where you think the guitar "doesn't need to stand up in its own right", others like me do.  One of the reasons you don't think this is required is because you are bringing in PRS and Ibanez into the picture... but I'm not interested in PRS or Ibanez (or motocycles with steering wheels for that matter).

Now as for the next part, I can't tell if you are just trying to be funny and I'm not getting the joke, OR if you are implying that you can hear the ambient strings of an electric guitar over an amp while playing at a performance level....because if you can, your hearing is a gazillion better times than mine and I feel sorry for you as that to me is a flaw in your hearing and still not a flaw in the Vax!.

LOL.  I will not hear ambient strings at performance level.  This is one of the situations I already covered, under the category of "amp is too loud for your own good".  However I plan to use the guitar in more situations than you apparently do, where I will *certainly* hear the ambient strings while playing.

I'm not the only one who considers this a design flaw.  Other guitar makers like to tout their ability to change guitar tunings on the fly, while not having this issue of the strings being discordant with the amp output.

Don't get me wrong, I love Variax and the tech that Line 6 have developed. That tech has become invaluable to me since I got my Ac 700 and my POD HD 500 and who knows? I may very well end up getting an electric variax at some point in the future.

As it stands I know for certain it won't be the JTV 89 unless some significant upgrades are made. Sadly, I think you are right and I don't see that happening any time soon.

Sounds good!  The only reason I don't hold much hope for this is the amount of time between the original variax and JTV and the minimal number of changes on the modelling side.   I think it will be years before you see what you want from Line6 and that's assuming they survive as a company.   Maybe you'll get your dream modelling guitar from somewhere else...



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by johnnyayyy on 2011-02-18 16:59:40

Octo777 wrote:

I understand why people want mag pick ups, the part I don't understand is why they want/need them on a Variax.

You will understand the first time you use a Variax to play anything with heavy palm muting.

Modeling don't Djent, and the problem is not the specific pickup or body models currently available - the problem is the placement of the bridge piezos relative to your palm and plectrum.

Check back in a year and I bet you will find some more modern pickup models available, this will be a big improvement for sure but I will be surprised if they ever figure out how to solve the Djent problem.



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by laelamiles on 2011-02-18 17:14:20

Check back in a year??  LOL. 

If it was going to be available next year, Line6 would have already announced it by now, created a new community blog, media and PR blitz, countless youtube video reviews, then deliver it a year or two behind schedule.

(sorry, couldn't resist that one. )



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by johnnyayyy on 2011-02-18 18:38:45

laelamiles wrote:

Check back in a year??  LOL. 

If it was going to be available next year, Line6 would have already announced it by now, created a new community blog, media and PR blitz, countless youtube video reviews, then deliver it a year or two behind schedule.

(sorry, couldn't resist that one. )

Humorous in light of JTV rollout but...

As I recall the only thing L6 has ever done this pre-release announcement with is the JTV hardware, don't recall them ever announcing any firmware updates or models packs or any other software products before they were released.

Rich did tell us waiting until new models were ready would have added 2 years to the JTVs original projected release date, I doubt the L6 engineers have been sitting around doing nothing for the last year and a half since he posted that statement.

So... check back in a year



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Octo777 on 2011-02-19 02:46:47

laelamiles wrote:

It's an expectations issue.  Where you think the guitar "doesn't need to stand up in its own right", others like me do.  One of the reasons you don't think this is required is because you are bringing in PRS and Ibanez into the picture... but I'm not interested in PRS or Ibanez (or motocycles with steering wheels for that matter).

It doesn't matter what other brands I reference, my point is that I would assume that you and every other guitarist out there have at least one other regular guitar for all those regular guitar type things and wouldn't ever have to rely on mag pick ups on a Vax.

laelamiles wrote:

LOL.  I will not hear ambient strings at performance level.  This is one of the situations I already covered, under the category of "amp is too loud for your own good".  However I plan to use the guitar in more situations than you apparently do, where I will *certainly* hear the ambient strings while playing.

But thats just it, the amp doesn't have to be stupidly loud. I practice with my acoustic duo every week. It's me and my female singer, in a room with my VAX Acoustic going into my HD 500 and into a Carlsboro acoustic amp. I use various virtual capo tunings as well as open c and open e tunings and not once in this situation has ambient noise ever been a problem.

I'm sorry but I really feel you are overplaying the ambient tuning issue, especially in relation to a electric variax.

laelamiles wrote:








I'm not the only one who considers this a design flaw.  Other guitar makers like to tout their ability to change guitar tunings on the fly, while not having this issue of the strings being discordant with the amp output.

Yes but the number of tunings are far more limited in comparison to variax and you are further limited by string tension in most aspects. Couple that with a gazillion moving parts to eventually go wrong and I'd still rock the variax.

johnnyayyy wrote:

You will understand the first time you use a Variax to play anything with heavy palm muting.

Heard this argument before and it's rubbish. Jump to 4:50 and this guy does a comparison of a Vax palm muting and a mag guitar plam muting. You are high if you can make out any significant difference.

Jeez, I can even get my acoustic 700 to palm mute so don't doubt for a second I could get an electric to do it even better.

 johnnyayyy wrote:














Modeling don't Djent,

Good. The word Djent is bloody stupid and appears to have been invented by bedroom guitarists who wouldn't know a good metal tone if it kicked them in the bum.



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by laelamiles on 2011-02-19 11:37:54

Octo777 wrote:

laelamiles wrote:

It's an expectations issue.  Where you think the guitar "doesn't need to stand up in its own right", others like me do.  One of the reasons you don't think this is required is because you are bringing in PRS and Ibanez into the picture... but I'm not interested in PRS or Ibanez (or motocycles with steering wheels for that matter).

It doesn't matter what other brands I reference, my point is that I would assume that you and every other guitarist out there have at least one other regular guitar for all those regular guitar type things and wouldn't ever have to rely on mag pick ups on a Vax.

Aha!  This is the disconnect... your assumption.  I have expectations of the JTV being an all-in-one uber guitar that is good enough to satisfy all my requirements.  You on the other hand have an arsenal of guitars you are carrying with you such as PRS, Ibanez and probably others, and that arsenal together with the JTV satisfies all your requirements.

Like I said, it's an expectations issue.  I want to drop Duncans in my JTV and even maybe some triple-shots.

laelamiles wrote:

LOL.  I will not hear ambient strings at performance level.  This is one of the situations I already covered, under the category of "amp is too loud for your own good".  However I plan to use the guitar in more situations than you apparently do, where I will *certainly* hear the ambient strings while playing.

But thats just it, the amp doesn't have to be stupidly loud. I practice with my acoustic duo every week. It's me and my female singer, in a room with my VAX Acoustic going into my HD 500 and into a Carlsboro acoustic amp. I use various virtual capo tunings as well as open c and open e tunings and not once in this situation has ambient noise ever been a problem.

I'm sorry but I really feel you are overplaying the ambient tuning issue, especially in relation to a electric variax.

No worries... this is progress.  Where before you said there was no issue at all, now at least you admit there is some issue but that I am "overplaying" it.

Again, it all comes down to an expectations issue.  The JTV targets vastly differently crowds with different requirements.

laelamiles wrote: I'm not the only one who considers this a design flaw.  Other guitar makers like to tout their ability to change guitar tunings on the fly, while not having this issue of the strings being discordant with the amp output.

Yes but the number of tunings are far more limited in comparison to variax and you are further limited by string tension in most aspects. Couple that with a gazillion moving parts to eventually go wrong and I'd still rock the variax.

Fully 100% agreed with you.  There is no golden solution.

Have you decided whether you're going to get a JTV-89 or not?  I'm really curious what your final decision will be, lol!



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Octo777 on 2011-02-19 12:00:18

Aha!  This is the disconnect... your assumption.  I have expectations of the JTV being an all-in-one uber guitar that is good enough to satisfy all my requirements.  You on the other hand have an arsenal of guitars you are carrying with you such as PRS, Ibanez and probably others, and that arsenal together with the JTV satisfies all your requirements.

Like I said, it's an expectations issue.  I want to drop Duncans in my JTV and even maybe some triple-shots.

The crux is, the variax doesnt require mag pick ups to work and I still stick by "Steering wheel on a motorbike" comparison.

Is it possible that some people are viewing the JTV guitars as a way of owning a genuine James Tyler? I mean obviously there is the option to get the US versions for that extra bucks, but otherwise, it's just a Tyler by design, not in manufacture, right?

No worries... this is progress.  Where before you said there was no issue at all, now at least you admit there is some issue but that I am "overplaying" it.

Again, it all comes down to an expectations issue.  The JTV targets vastly differently crowds with different requirements.

There are only issues with ambient tuning if you let there be my friend.

Fully 100% agreed with you.  There is no golden solution.

Have you decided whether you're going to get a JTV-89 or not?  I'm really curious what your final decision will be, lol!

As it stands I won't be buying an 89 anytime soon. I think what I'm actually going to do is let the product mature over the next year or so, see if any enchancments are made in the areas I am looking for and in the meantime consider picking up Vax 700 somewhere.

I'm going to submit this thread to Line 6 direct in a Product Deedback form too.



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Jasonbrianmerrill on 2011-02-19 15:07:51

the models dont have the best palm muting still - better than the 300/500/600/700s but ...

http://line6.com/community/thread/57335?tstart=0

gothere



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Octo777 on 2011-02-19 15:20:32

Jasonbrianmerrill wrote:

the models dont have the best palm muting still - better than the 300/500/600/700s but ...

http://line6.com/community/thread/57335?tstart=0

gothere

I listened and I think the difference is miniscule. Hardly noticable at all imo.

You play a Vax with a metal band and nobody is going to pick on you for having muddy sounding pam mutes.



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Jasonbrianmerrill on 2011-02-19 15:31:13

that's nice that you can't hear the difference. must be nice.To me, it is muddy. Again, I am also praising line 6 for addressing the issue. Might not want to be so sensitive.

and i discount the rest of the post as an ad hominem, straw man, and probably a few other fallacies making it irrelevant.

nice to meet you!



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by laelamiles on 2011-02-19 16:08:50

Jasonbrianmerrill wrote:

that's nice that you can't hear the difference. must be nice.To me, it is muddy. Again, I am also praising line 6 for addressing the issue. Might not want to be so sensitive.

and i discount the rest of the post as an ad hominem, straw man, and probably a few other fallacies making it irrelevant.

nice to meet you!

Your input is very valuable, very precise, I just wanted to make sure at least one person thanks you for it, so -- thanks!

I'm pretty particular about what I expect out of my guitar too, all the little things about the sound and capabilities of the guitar matter to me -- but as Octo777 mentioned he's playing with a metal band, so they probably have a different level of expectations.



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Jasonbrianmerrill on 2011-02-19 16:24:14

ahh, i didnt realize he was speaking of himself - i thought he was implying the muddiness was irrelevant if I were in a "real" metal band or something. It was rather unclear, either way I suppose he felt it was irrelevant, but of course, that's all relative.

thanks!

expect more demos and critiques to come.



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by johnnyayyy on 2011-02-19 16:48:33

Octo777 wrote:


johnnyayyy wrote:

You will understand the first time you use a Variax to play anything with heavy palm muting.

Heard this argument before and it's rubbish. Jump to 4:50 and this guy does a comparison of a Vax palm muting and a mag guitar plam muting.

As long as you only play the song he is doing in the video palm muting will be fine.Try an intro or breakdown with guitar only and some simple start/stop playing and you will begin to see the problem.

The piezo bridge requires muting directly over the saddles, mute tightly enough to get a fast note decay and the note will not sound as it will not reach the pickups. Mute lightly enough and the note will sound but will have a long decay. You can try to compensate for this with a noise gate cutting off the tails of the notes... if you ever manage to make this sound good please post some vids to show us how it is done, so far no one has pulled it off.

Octo777 wrote:

Jeez, I can even get my acoustic 700 to palm mute so don't doubt for a second I could get an electric to do it even better.

I am not surprised - I can get my Variax 500 to palm mute much better acoustically than electrically. Play your Variax acoustic through a high gain amp setting and try some palm muting, obviously the tone will be weird but the palm muting should be very similar to an electric Variax.

Piezo palm muting will be okay for certain things, for that bit where the piezos sound bad the mags are a necessity - maybe not for you but definitely for me and many others.

Octo777 wrote:Good. The word Djent is bloody stupid and appears to have been invented by bedroom guitarists who wouldn't know a good metal tone if it kicked them in the bum.

Djent is a great onomatopoeia that perfectly captures the sound of  heavy guitar. I would say a Variax Lester position 1 through a high gain amp sounds less like "Djent" and more like "Bjuhhhhhn".

I want to say "Get a Variax and you will see..." but I hope the JTV suits your needs and you never need it to do anything it is not capable of.

(Hint: if and when you do hit the piezo wall the mags will be there waiting for you )



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by laelamiles on 2011-02-19 16:59:05

Jasonbrianmerrill wrote:

ahh, i didnt realize he was speaking of himself - i thought he was implying the muddiness was irrelevant if I were in a "real" metal band or something. It was rather unclear, either way I suppose he felt it was irrelevant, but of course, that's all relative.

thanks!

expect more demos and critiques to come.

Oh yeah, I took it to mean that "his" metal band doesn't care about the guitar nuances and that he was speaking for himself too.  I mean obviously other metal bands would have different standards...  this is probably part of the disconnect.

Thanks!



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Octo777 on 2011-02-19 17:29:05

Jasonbrianmerrill wrote:

that's nice that you can't hear the difference. must be nice.To me, it is muddy. Again, I am also praising line 6 for addressing the issue. Might not want to be so sensitive.

Please don't paraphrase my posts and make implications that are not true.

I did not say that I could not hear the difference, I said that the difference was miniscule and hardly noticable.

laelamiles wrote:

I'm pretty particular about what I expect out of my guitar too, all the little things about the sound and capabilities of the guitar matter to me -- but as Octo777 mentioned he's playing with a metal band, so they probably have a different level of expectations.

Jasonbrianmerrill wrote:

ahh, i didnt realize he was speaking of himself - i thought he was implying the muddiness was irrelevant if I were in a "real" metal band or something. It was rather unclear, either way I suppose he felt it was irrelevant, but of course, that's all relative.


Listen, you guys are entitled to your opinion and all that but I don't appreciate the condescending tone eminating from these posts here.

My main point about palm muting in regards to the Variax is that the minscule nuances that the Variax guitars have when palm muting in comparison to the whole slew of features you get from a vax are worth noting, but not a big enough problem to stop a guitarist from playing that particular technique regardless of what musical style they wish to play.



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Octo777 on 2011-02-19 17:33:42

johnnyayyy wrote:

(Hint: if and when you do hit the piezo wall the mags will be there waiting for you )

Yes, but only in Standard tuning.............



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Jasonbrianmerrill on 2011-02-19 17:35:28

sorry, the fact that you say it's miniscule says to me that you actually can't hear it.

and you are right - the features of the vax outweigh this problem. Which is why i dropped 1300 bucks on it. However, the problem still exists. And I'm helping to continue illuminating it.

Any time, including in that vid you posted, which although somewhat masked, still shows clearly the problem, someone brings up a critique like this, some one has to come along and says "YEAH BUT IT TUNES THINGS AND HAS TONS OF MODELS!" yeah, we know. I absolutely love being able to hit a patch on my podhd500 which turns my entire sound into an acoustic through a nice comp/eq, go to the looper section, lay down a rythym, go back, load a pod patch which changes the entire thing to a strat through a marshall, and play a solo over it. Line 6 makes some amazing stuff!

I am not dissing the entire product, i am pointing out one thing, and mentioning that if you use PM a lot, and care about your tone a decent amount, this guitar may not be for you. thats all. no emotion nessecary.



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by johnnyayyy on 2011-02-20 01:12:52

Octo777 wrote:

johnnyayyy wrote:

(Hint: if and when you do hit the piezo wall the mags will be there waiting for you )

Yes, but only in Standard tuning.............

I am pretty sure my new JTV will be tuned to something other than standard tuning... I am thinking it will be tuned B to B, with a Hipshot tuner added for drop A. With the pitch shifting in my HD500 I believe I can change the tuning of the mags over a pretty wide range. Models can then be tuned to standard tuning or whatever I like.

Anything that goes "Djent... Djent... Djuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu...:" I will be playing through the superior sounding mags (I am betting it will be a D-Activator in the bridge). Anything not requiring Djentiness will be done with the appropriate model or possibly the mags depending on what I need at the time or for the part.

The word Djent is bloody stupid and appears to have been invented by 
bedroom guitarists who wouldn't know a good metal tone if it kicked them
in the bum.

I just realized the electric guitar was invented by someone who wouldn't know a good metal tone if it kicked them  in the bum...



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Crusty_Old_Rocker on 2011-02-20 02:38:52

You're 100% right about the palm muting "issues" being rubbish.  But whenever I mentioned that, those who couldn't work out how to palm mute the Variax would go on the attack.

I don't do any serious metal myself but I know an Aussie Line 6 clinician named Steve MacKay (http://www.prsguitars.com/artists/profiles/stevemackay/index.html)and he played serious metal using the Variax 700 and Vetta II amp.  He could do all the heavy metal palm muting without any trouble at all.

The whole palm muting thing was mostly a huge beat up!  I have never had problems palm muting to play stuff like this:

and

or even

I know it's not modern metal palm muting but it's still palm muting rock and clean- it's easy and sounds great on my Variax 700.

Cheers,

Crusty



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Octo777 on 2011-02-20 02:45:16

Jasonbrianmerrill wrote:

sorry, the fact that you say it's miniscule says to me that you actually can't hear it.

Well maybe instead of drawing your own conclusions about my perception to meet your own ends, perhaps you should use the actual defintion of the word miniscule.....

Adj.1.

miniscule - very small; "a minuscule kitchen"; "a minuscule amount of rain fell"

johnnyayyy wrote:

With the pitch shifting in my HD500 I believe I can change the tuning of the mags over a pretty wide range. Models can then be tuned to standard tuning or whatever I like

Yeah, that's not going to work. I've tried this on my HD 500 and if you are playing single notes, on a cleanish sound, it's fine. You add some effects/overdrive and try and play even a simple power chord and the sound goes all wacky. The sound from doing that will be a gazillion times worse than anything you could reproduce using the Piezo on the Vax.......

So now what you going to do? Despite having big ideas,I don't think you have thought it through in terms of reality.....

I mean you could always pick up a Morpheus Drop Tune pedal but thats gonna be another £150 right there even though, the Variax can do it already without the Mag pick ups!

johnnyayyy wrote:

Anything that goes "Djent... Djent... Djuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu...:" I will be playing through the superior sounding mags (I am betting it will be a D-Activator in the bridge). Anything not requiring Djentiness will be done with the appropriate model or possibly the mags depending on what I need at the time or for the part

I don't see why you would even care about "superior" mag pick ups when playing "Djent" *shudder* since as I mentioned before it was invented by bedroom guitarists who don't know what good tone is and so the term has since come to describe and overly processed sound that is easily achievable with budget equipment.

johnnyayyy wrote:

I just realized the electric guitar was invented by someone who wouldn't know a good metal tone if it kicked them  in the bum...

And your point is?



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Crusty_Old_Rocker on 2011-02-20 02:55:32

Octo777, have you downloaded and installed the Workbench software?

You can run the software without a guitar connected so you can at least preview what you can change in the modelling side of the Variax.

I can see you're smart enough to see through a lot of the rubbish that get said on the Internet.  You're also wise enough to know that robot tuning will fatigue the metal in strings, mess with the neck relief on your guitar, will be limited in how low and high it could go and ultimately warp the neck of the guitar.

You're right about the magnetic side on the JTV.  I have used the Variax 700 for gigging and never had the need for magnetic pickups, I'd have my Variax 600 in a case as a backup (who doesn't have a backup when gigging?).  The only application for the mag pickups that would be cool is to have the modelling produce an acoustic while the mags do an electric at the same time.  That would be nice.

Anyway, install Workbench and take a look at the range of pickups and how you can place them and boost their output.  Also take a look at how you can modify the cap and pot values in the tone control circuit to deepen the tone or take out some of the mud on PAFs.  You can stack pickups on top of each other, connect them in series or parallel, in phase or out of phase.  I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with the breadth of tone that can be pulled out of the Variax using Workbench.  Of course you won't be able to hear what you've created but it will give you a preview of what's possible.

Cheers,

Crusty



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Octo777 on 2011-02-20 03:10:42

Crusty_Old_Rocker wrote:

Octo777, have you downloaded and installed the Workbench software?

You can run the software without a guitar connected so you can at least preview what you can change in the modelling side of the Variax.

I can see you're smart enough to see through a lot of the rubbish that get said on the Internet.  You're also wise enough to know that robot tuning will fatigue the metal in strings, mess with the neck relief on your guitar, will be limited in how low and high it could go and ultimately warp the neck of the guitar.

You're right about the magnetic side on the JTV.  I have used the Variax 700 for gigging and never had the need for magnetic pickups, I'd have my Variax 600 in a case as a backup (who doesn't have a backup when gigging?).  The only application for the mag pickups that would be cool is to have the modelling produce an acoustic while the mags do an electric at the same time.  That would be nice.

Anyway, install Workbench and take a look at the range of pickups and how you can place them and boost their output.  Also take a look at how you can modify the cap and pot values in the tone control circuit to deepen the tone or take out some of the mud on PAFs.  You can stack pickups on top of each other, connect them in series or parallel, in phase or out of phase.  I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with the breadth of tone that can be pulled out of the Variax using Workbench.  Of course you won't be able to hear what you've created but it will give you a preview of what's possible.

Cheers,

Crusty

Yeah, I have the Workbench installed for my Acoustic 700, but I think you can only look at the settings for the guitar you have connected, no?

Haha yes, I'm 30 years old with a modicum of common sense, so I am not quite as impressionable as some folks, particularly when it comes to "hear say" on the internet.

I'll have a look later at the workbench and see what settings I'm allowed to play with.

I still maintain that even adding some hot pick ups like EMG's etc to the mix would be doing guitarists like myself a great service which would result in me actually going out and buying a JTV!

Cheers!



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Crusty_Old_Rocker on 2011-02-20 03:36:09

Start Workbench without a Variax connected.  You'll get a warning screen.  Press the "Add" button.

1.png

You'll then be asked to select a Device (Variax) from the List - Select the JTV.

2.png

3.png

Once selected you will see the option to run Workbench in "Offline Mode", select that.

4.png

Once you select to run in "Offline Mode" you will see the Offline JTV in the list of guitars for running Workbench.  Select the JTV and you're on your way.

5.png

This is the sort of stuff us guys who have been around the gear for way to long know about.

Have fun exploring Workbench.

Cheers,

Crusty



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Crusty_Old_Rocker on 2011-02-20 03:43:06

Oh, just a tip.  One of the really cool things about the Variax is you get the single coil pickups without the noise.

You can simulate pickups like EMGs using the P90s and increasing the output, you can raise the pickup by +6db and the entire guitar model by another +6db.  If the P90s are a bit bright adjust the cap and pot values on the tone control.

Cheers,

Crusty



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Jasonbrianmerrill on 2011-02-20 05:01:00

the palm muting issue is clear as day. Perhaps if someone had some wet/dry examples, this might help.

the palm muting simply does not have the same attack at all.

do you have any examples from this aussie metal guy? I already saw the youtube of that other aussie guy - and there IS a difference there. Perhaps the amp he was using lacked attack so therefore you couldn't hear much of a difference, but as we can clearly see from MY examples, in the amp I chose, which was a metal-esque amp sim, the attack was clearly quite different.

oct777 - you dont hear it. You say it's miniscule, I say its not massive, but it matters. Perhaps you are not hearing the difference between those two levels of care about it? anyway, semantics debate over.

its very interesting to see people here describe this issue as "rubbish" or a "beat up" or whatever when it's clear as day - it sounds like some very emotional reasoning is at work here. Listen guys, I love my line 6 gear. I think it's amazing. But I want to see it improve, and therefore I am going to criticize it. I am not tearing down your precious products

Again, provide some proof as I have, something wet/dry - perhaps try a marshall type amp sim instead of a recto...

So far there is no valid proof against my point. Just "I can do it just fine in my band" or "so and so does it fine (no sound clips)" or "here's some sound clips from the 80s"



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Octo777 on 2011-02-20 05:54:03

Crusty_Old_Rocker wrote:

Oh, just a tip.  One of the really cool things about the Variax is you get the single coil pickups without the noise.

You can simulate pickups like EMGs using the P90s and increasing the output, you can raise the pickup by +6db and the entire guitar model by another +6db.  If the P90s are a bit bright adjust the cap and pot values on the tone control.

Cheers,

Crusty

Awesome. Thanks for the workbench workaround. I am away to delve into that in a minute.

Jasonbrianmerrill wrote:

oct777 - you dont hear it. You say it's miniscule, I say its not massive, but it matters. Perhaps you are not hearing the difference between those two levels of care about it? anyway, semantics debate over.

its very interesting to see people here describe this issue as "rubbish" or a "beat up" or whatever when it's clear as day - it sounds like some very emotional reasoning is at work here. Listen guys, I love my line 6 gear. I think it's amazing. But I want to see it improve, and therefore I am going to criticize it. I am not tearing down your precious products

Again, provide some proof as I have, something wet/dry - perhaps try a marshall type amp sim instead of a recto...

So far there is no valid proof against my point. Just "I can do it just fine in my band" or "so and so does it fine (no sound clips)" or "here's some sound clips from the 80s"

Dude, I don't know why you are trying to twist words here, but where I come from "Miniscule" is simply another way of saying something is "Small" and "Small" is another way of saying "Not massive". Stop getting caught up on the words and focus on whats actually important.

The clear difference of opinion we have comes from whether it matters enough for it to be a significant issue.

You say there is no valid proof against your point, I say there is nothing significant enough to say you are right and everyone else is wrong.

If people are using the Vax for styles that use Palm muting and they are happy with the results, who are you to question them? Who are you to say their word is not as good as yours?

What we really need here is a non biased individual to record some palm muting samples using a JTV using the Mag pick ups and then then a similar modeled sound and not reveal what was playing what when it was recorded and see if people can actually identify the difference without prior knowledge/influence........ 3 or 4 samples of each would be more preferable too to increase the odds from a 50/50 guess.

Regardless, I'd kind of like to get back on track to my initial greivances of the JTV 89 none of which mentioned anything regarding palm muting.  I quite simply don't think it's a big enough issue that should stop anyone buying an Electric Variax and feel that a new thread would be a better place to talk about palm muting issues in a more focused manner.



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Jasonbrianmerrill on 2011-02-20 06:03:39

I tried to stop getting caught up on the words, I let you have the last word, its over. Now, back to the more important bits:

how the heck am I biased? You have no proof of that. Do you know what biased means? I am not from a competing company, I don't have a dog in this fight, I love the variax, and i think line 6 rocks

I am right and "everyone else" is wrong? First of all, the thread I am posting is an attempt to get feedback from people and perhaps get a problem fixed - I am not saying I am "right" - I am displaying what I am doing and hoping to improve, either by myself, or by my feedback which will inspire change. Secondly, There are two people disagreeing with me. Many more have viewed the thread.

let's let go of these fallacies and deal with the facts.

And there IS a thread about this. It has been viewed quite a few times. However, as you keep responding to my posts, I will reply in turn. I am not keeping this going, others are, and it seems there is a degree of defensive language going on here...



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Crusty_Old_Rocker on 2011-02-20 08:35:08

There's no need to hijack Octo777's thread to put forward your own agenda.  Please feel free to start a new thread rather than drag this one OT.

There were plenty of us who posted palm muting clips on the old forum site, long before this one existed.  I don't need to prove this over and over again.

Steve MacKay did have a video doing all that drop tuned 'Shred Kiddie' stuff back when he was a Line 6 clinician, again this was before this forum site existed.  He's now a PRS endorsed guitarist, so I don't think you'll find his Variax stuff around now.  There's probably demos of it on his POD X3 instructional DVD.  Perhaps you could get yourself a copy to help you get the gear sounding right.

Cheers,

Crusty



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Crusty_Old_Rocker on 2011-02-20 08:46:28

Jasonbrianmerrill wrote:

So far there is no valid proof against my point.

I'd suspect that in a blind test (without seeing the two guitars), there would be no statistically significant difference in the ability for audiences to correctly identify the Variax or a magnetic pickup guitar.

It comes down to technique, you either can or can't palm mute a Variax.  Some of us can, other struggle.

Cheers,

Crusty



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Jasonbrianmerrill on 2011-02-20 08:47:58

first of all, I am sorry you feel the need to call this an "agenda" - this was a thread about the JTV89, I thought my link might be relevant, left a tiny note concerning it, and other people started responding and calling the tests I did "rubbish" or "miniscule." I responded to those things in kind, and have never intended to hijack anything. But if people are going to respond to MY posts, I am going to respond back. If you don't want to hear about it any longer in this thread, how about we just, as I have been trying to do for a page now, let it go. There are seperate threads on this subject, no need for you to drag this out. And let's be clear, it wasn't ME "dragging" it out. I am simply responding to posts addressed to me.

ok, now he's a PRS rep, now the files are on the old forum, none of these are proofs... put up some wet/dry clips in flac or wav - show some youtube videos, anything. perhaps do it in the palm muting thread that I started somewhere else so as not to deflect this fine thread.

This is not an agenda, it is a valid concern, the fact that you are inflating it with such hyperbole and conjecture only says to me you don't have a leg to stand on about it. I am sure this is not the case. So things seem muddied in more than one way.

And you can deflect again by telling me to buy a DVD to make my sound better, insisting that this is user error in some way, or you can respond to my OTHER thread, and post some patches or suggestions. It is obvious which is more helpful.

that video above, I've already seen it - it does also display the problem, but not as severely. It seems that the type of sim probably doesnt lend itself to a great deal of attack in the first place. Try a marshall sim next, see what happens in an A/B... or a bogner... A wet/dry fileshare would be more appropriate. However, I can clearly hear it, perhaps because I know exactly what to listen for. It's not the hugest deal. It is the defenders that seem to get all knotted up about it.

Ok, once again, I am out. I have only posted here without being addressed once, and I will continue to be silent on this thread unless someone else addresses me. thanks.

BTW people i love this guitar. Its awesome. jesus. no need to get upset.



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Octo777 on 2011-02-20 09:24:29

I didn't actually call anyone biased. I simply said what we needed was an unbiased person to record and post some clips to see if people who claim to be able to tell the difference between the palm mutes, actually could because I seriously doubt they can.

But as has been shown, even when other evidence has actually been shown, it's not good enough. There is something wrong with the tone..... They played it wrong..... They used the wrong amp......they didn't compare wet/dry signals....

And the real irony is that the dude making the most noise about the Palm muting issue contradicts himself by claiming that his "valid concern" is actually "not the hugest deal"........so why keep on at it? Because other people keep responding? How puerile!

And the other piece of irony, is that there apparently is already a thread dealing with the palm muting issue, so I further don't understand why it has been dragged out/mentioned at all in this thread........

As far as I am concerned, in this thread, there is no need for ANY debate on the palm muting issue.

@Crusty Old Rocker: I had a play around with the Workbench and I found it quite interesting. Not interesting enough to shell out £1000 on a JTV89 though. lol



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Jasonbrianmerrill on 2011-02-20 09:36:26

1. I mentioned this in the thread because it seemed applicable in response to some other posts. I posted a link, and I STFU.

2. OTHER people dragged it on. I simply responded

3. there has been no evidence forthcoming. Simply demos put through unknown processing. The only real evidence are lossless/unprocessed clips alongside patches and processed mp3s/flacs, to be able to process on one's own.

4. there is no contradiction with "valid concern" and "not the hugest deal" - not sure how you are seeing that.

5. So, people question your motives, your skill, your reasoning, your testing, even the validity of your argument and you wouldn't respond? right. Again, if this isn't an issue to you, you can stop responding and so will I. But I simply will not allow people to attack what I am saying without some kind of response, at least if I have some time, which I do, for now

6. I welcome some kind of test such as the one of which you speak. give me a few different examples, recorded with the JTV-69, or even 89, through a VDI cable, into a POD HD series with no processing. Make wet and dry clips, flac, wavpak or wave, and I will attempt to tell you which one is mag and which one is vax. If I get over 50 percent right, its at least not chance.

7. asking for someone unbiased kind of implies that the current pool is biased

again, I consider the matter closed in this thread. It doesn't matter to you, so why bother responding? the actual thread is here:

http://line6.com/community/thread/57335?tstart=0

pleasego to that thread if you wish not to muddy up this one. This is what I attempted to do from the beginning.



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by johnnyayyy on 2011-02-20 10:49:24

Octo777 wrote:


So now what you going to do? Despite having big ideas,I don't think you have thought it through in terms of reality.....

I mean you could always pick up a Morpheus Drop Tune pedal but thats gonna be another £150

You are right. I will need a Morpheus Drop Tune pedal.Problem solved.

Octo777 wrote:


I don't see why you would even care about "superior" mag pick ups when playing "Djent" *shudder* since as I mentioned before it was invented by bedroom guitarists who don't know what good tone is and so the term has since come to describe and overly processed sound that is easily achievable with budget equipment.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=djent

id="entries">1.Djent356 up, 13 down
Djent is used to describe a certain kind of  guitar tone characterized by medium-high gain, a quick-release noise  gate to emphasize staccato playing, a cut of most bass below 200Hz for a  tight low end, a slight boost around 800hz for clarity, and a  noticeable boost around 1.6Khz to emphasize pick attack. When a  two-octave power chord is palm-muted with this tone, a "djent" sound is  created rather than the typical chunkier sound.

Djent also refers  to repeated staccato playing of the lowest-pitch string on a detuned 6  string or 7 string guitar with a powerful attack such that the string  goes very slightly sharp upon the pick's release from the string.  Lower-gauge strings are used to facilitate this.

Djent tone is  many times created using a Line 6 amp modeling product such as the Pod  series or the Axe-Fx. When possible, an amp model such as the Big Bottom  or Modern High Gain on these devices is used in conjunction with a  modeled Tube Screamer in front. Engl and Mesa amplifiers are typically  used when tube amplification is preferred.

Djent is widely  acknowledged to have come first from Meshuggah, but Misha 'Bulb' Mansoor  has arguably popularized the sound. Djent's typical uses give rise to a  "genre" of djent that is characterized by hi-fi compressed production,  polyrhythmic/staccato distorted riffs and ambient clean passages which  make liberal use of 9 and other "jazzy" chords.


Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Octo777 on 2011-02-20 11:08:00

johnnyayyy wrote:

You are right. I will need a Morpheus Drop Tune pedal.Problem solved.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=djent

Buyinga Morhpheus Drop Tune Pedal to use with a Line 6 Variax is quite possibly one of the silliest things I've ever heard...........

And I know what people claim "Djent" to be, but that doesn't change my opinion/analysis of it.

I understand the onomatopoeia but as far as the "movement" and attempt to turn it into a sub genre goes, well that doesn't register with me.

I'll stick to using the term "Metal".

When people use the word "Djent" it irks me just as much as when people obnoxiously finish off scathing comments with the words "Just Sayin".



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by johnnyayyy on 2011-02-20 11:20:42

Crusty_Old_Rocker wrote:

Jasonbrianmerrill wrote:

So far there is no valid proof against my point.

http://www.youtube.com/v/WFp0IEgy5TE"/>name="wmode" value="transparent"/>

I'd suspect that in a blind test (without seeing the two guitars), there would be no statistically significant difference in the ability for audiences to correctly identify the Variax or a magnetic pickup guitar.

In that clip the Variax actually sounds much better  than whatever that other guitar is he is playing.

Crusty_Old_Rocker wrote:


It comes down to technique, you either can or can't palm mute a Variax.  Some of us can, other struggle.


I don't think anyone should have any trouble playing the song in that clip on a Variax with similar results, I know I wouldn't - pedaling those chugga-chugga eighth notes is not where the problem shows up in my experience. I believe around 90% of what can be done palm muting on a regular guitar will work around as well on a Variax. I would like to see some clips of people pulling off that last 10% if only for inspiration, until then I gotta say there are still things that can't be done (effectively). Not a big deal as the JTV mags bridge the 10% gap.

Oh man,  I LOOOOVE The Motels and that songs is one of my favorites



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by zeddd on 2011-02-20 11:29:11

Octo777 wrote:

When people use the word "Djent" it irks me just as much as when people obnoxiously finish off scathing comments with the words "Just Sayin".

I just read the article you linked to the words "Just Sayin".

My opinion is that people who use those words at the end of scathing comments are using it wrong. When I use those words in correspondence, and when friends have used those words in communication with me, it is usually the cap to a message which was a perspective which we wanted to share with the other person that we either don't want them to take too seriously or we want them to realize that it is just an opinion and we might be wrong about it, or the opinion may not necessarily be applicable to the situation the other person is in.

Just Sayin = That's my take on the situation. I may be wrong or perhaps your case is an exception to the rule, but this has been my finding in the past.

I take exception to scathing comments. But I have no problem with those words when used correctly.

Just sayin.



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by johnnyayyy on 2011-02-20 11:45:27

Octo777 wrote:

johnnyayyy wrote:

You are right. I will need a Morpheus Drop Tune pedal.Problem solved.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=djent

Buyinga Morhpheus Drop Tune Pedal to use with a Line 6 Variax is quite possibly one of the silliest things I've ever heard...........

Yeah, that would be pretty silly. I would do it if I needed to but honestly I will be using the mags on the JTV so little (maybe 5% of the time) it will be pretty easy to work around the guitar's limitations.

Octo777 wrote:I know what people claim "Djent" to be, but that doesn't change my opinion/analysis of it.

I understand the onomatopoeia but as far as the "movement" and attempt to turn it into a sub genre goes, well that doesn't register with me.

I'll stick to using the term "Metal".

When people use the word "Djent" it irks me just as much as when people obnoxiously finish off scathing comments with the words "Just Sayin".

I have never heard anyone say "Djent" out loud and was not aware of the term until I found this forum and in reference to this clip

. I meant it only as onomatopoeia, it is perfectly descriptive of that sound and is also a funny sounding word which makes me like it even more.It reminds me the commentary here ( NEW EPISODES COMING SOON!) :

Not a fan of Meshuggah, Periphery, Textures, Xerath or Midnight Realm.. don't think I have ever heard any of those bands



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Crusty_Old_Rocker on 2011-02-20 12:39:56

One caveat I should add is I have been referring to palm muting on the original Variax guitars.  I know there were some who didn't like palm muting on the original and changes were made to tame down what ended up being called "clang" tone.  I don't know what the outcome of this is on the JTV.  Perhaps palm muting on the JTV is bad, but it was never a serious concern with the original Variax.

Cheers,

Crusty



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Crusty_Old_Rocker on 2011-02-20 12:47:05

johnnyayyy wrote:

... pedaling those chugga-chugga eighth notes is not where the problem shows up in my experience. I believe around 90% of what can be done palm muting on a regular guitar will work around as well on a Variax. I would like to see some clips of people pulling off that last 10% if only for inspiration, until then I gotta say there are still things that can't be done (effectively). Not a big deal as the JTV mags bridge the 10% gap.

Oh man,  I LOOOOVE The Motels and that songs is one of my favorites

Yeah, I have never done any of the heavy thrashy stuff.  The tame palm muting that I do works perfectly fine on the Variax 600 and 700.

I agree, I get the feeling that the inclusion of the mag pickups was largely to bridge the gaps.  A metal guitarist could tune the strings down a full tone and set the guitar up for the D tuning as standard then adjust the modelling tuning back up to E as required.

It's a great song to play, you just switch your brain off and have a little rest while secretly admiring your female vocalist - ah those were the days.

Cheers,

Crusty



Re: JTV 89 flawed perhaps?
by Jasonbrianmerrill on 2011-02-20 12:57:21

yes, back in the day there were issues, and it was users (me being one of them) who brought them up. They worked with James Tyler and improved the design of the bridge and probably altered the modeling, but they only fixed the microphonic issue, not the mud.

Hopefully they will react the same way again, and continue to improve this fine product.

If there are no more relevant responses to me, I will continue my attempt in ducking out of this thread to prevent further derailment. I may draw attention again to this more relevant thread on this subject:

http://line6.com/community/thread/57335?tstart=0

Andyes, I was speaking of the JTV. If the original post where i linked to the thread I started was actually  read, and assumptions weren't made that I was a kid in a bedroom chugging eighth notes on a vax 300, maybe this would have  been more productive

-desub'ed




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