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Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by Icewind on 2011-02-21 06:27:08

This past Friday I received my JTV-89 (Blood Red).  The bridge and tuners are chrome, but all pictures, including the ones on guitarcenter.com where I purchased the guitar, show a black bridge and black tuners.

Is this a marketing error, or is there something strange with my guitar?



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by Octo777 on 2011-02-21 07:53:04

If I had bought one I would definitely be expecting Black ones too given the style of the guitar and who it's marketed towards....



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by laelamiles on 2011-02-21 21:24:22

The official specs also call out black nickel hardware on this model.



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by Icewind on 2011-02-21 21:51:33

Guitarcenter.com (where I bought it) lists the hardware as black nickel as well.  Sweetwater, however, lists the hardware on the JTV-89 as "chrome".  Out of all the major online retailers, Sweetwater are the guys I would expect to have actually taken one out and looked at it to make sure the posted specs are correct.



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by laelamiles on 2011-02-22 00:16:59

Yeah Sweetwater does that... that's good on them.

Still, it's weird from the Line6 side.  The black hardware looks way better IMHO, and that's the official specs and story as far as I know.

My theory is that they didn't have 89 parts and made a snap decision to use 59/69 parts to unblock 89 production.



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by MartinHines on 2011-02-22 04:13:39

If you want a quick answer I would suggest calling Line 6.  Their response time on the support forum is pretty slow.



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by Icewind on 2011-02-22 08:20:42

I'm trying to call them.  I got the message that they were closed all day yesterday when I tried, but I figured it was because it was President's Day.  Today I'm getting the same message, which says they open at 8:00 Pacific.  Well, it's 8:20 Pacific and they still say they're closed.

I guess guitar people use different clocks.



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by zeddd on 2011-02-22 10:08:14

I still believe I read that they changed all the bridges when they discovered the sonic improvements brought about by a superior alloy. I think that is your answer. It'll be interesting in hearing if Line 6 will confirm this.



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by Icewind on 2011-02-22 10:16:22

I'll let you know shortly.  After calling them half a dozen times this morning and being told by the operator that they were having phone problems, but that someone would call me back as soon as they were sorted out (they didn't), I finally got into the tech support queue.  I've been on hold for 53 minutes and am currently #3 in the queue (started as #13).



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by laelamiles on 2011-02-22 10:35:11

Wow, I wonder if they are being flooded with calls due to JTV issues?



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by Icewind on 2011-02-22 10:49:23

Ok, after about an hour on hold, I got to talk to Perry, who was extremely courteous and helpful.  He didn't know right offhand why I have the chrome hardware (he mentioned that he has one of the alpha versions and it definitely has black hardware), and he said they hadn't heard from any other customers on this issue, but he is going to check internally to see what's up.  If it's supposed to have black hardware, they'll RMA the guitar for me :'( but it could very well be that some last minute change was done after all the marketing photos were already out the door, and that this is supposed to be chrome.



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by laelamiles on 2011-02-22 10:56:39

Thanks for the update.

zeddd is dying to hear about teh alloyz!!



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by zeddd on 2011-02-22 11:40:29

Indeed I am.

I tend to look at things from the perspective that changes are a result of Line 6 trying to make the product as good as it can be, rather than to assume that everything is another example of them messing up.



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by Icewind on 2011-02-22 12:05:15

He said it may take a couple of days to give him time to talk to folks internally and get back to me.



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by MartinHines on 2011-02-22 12:15:12

laelamiles wrote:

Wow, I wonder if they are being flooded with calls due to JTV issues?

Or, they could just be having "phone problems" (like they told the caller).



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by laelamiles on 2011-02-22 12:27:42

I commend all you guys on your patience and understanding on this.

But this is a screw-up.  It's not teh alloyz and it's not a well-thought out change in design.  It's clearly a compromise because of supply issues.

I'm glad I'm not getting an 89, so it doesn't really affect me, except it shows more than ever that Line6 is cutting corners.  The thing that really got me down was the bad QC evident throughout the JTV production process.



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by zeddd on 2011-02-22 12:35:16

negativenelly wrote:

But this is a screw-up.  It's not teh alloyz and it's not a well-thought out change in design.  It's clearly a compromise because of supply issues.

Clearly??

I'm glad you have no doubts. You might be right, but I guess we'll just have to wait on the official word.

Two Negative Nellys? This could get confusing.



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by zeddd on 2011-02-22 12:39:19

negativenelly

Ah... I see what you've done.

Well at least you admit it. Strangely, I think it will be easier to digest your negative comments when you are at least admitting that this is your perspective.



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by laelamiles on 2011-02-22 12:39:32

It's clear to me which design looks better.  One of the things that always looked awesome about the 89 was the black bridge.

It's also clear that this happened at the last minute, hence the "lack of thought" part I pointed out.

Prove me wrong Line6 and deliver me my dream 59.  I dare you.



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by Icewind on 2011-02-24 10:56:43

Well, here's the official reply:

"Hi John,  Update: the finish on your guitar's bridge and tuners ARE what our company considers to be "Black Nickel". I went home and double-checked my guitar... it appears that mine is an Alpha Unit which is not what the final release guitars are.  So you do have the correct finish, after all is said and done."

I'm not sure what to do at this point.



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by MartinHines on 2011-02-24 11:01:37

Icewind wrote:

Well, here's the official reply:

"Hi John,  Update: the finish on your guitar's bridge and tuners ARE what our company considers to be "Black Nickel". I went home and double-checked my guitar... it appears that mine is an Alpha Unit which is not what the final release guitars are.  So you do have the correct finish, after all is said and done."

I'm not sure what to do at this point.

I would suggest you get even more clarification, getting a clear answer as to why the Line 6 marketing photos (and dealer photos) are different.  Were the marketing photos "alpha units"?  Are they going to change the official photos so people aren't confused thinking the "black nickel" is darker than it really is?

I just did a search on "Black nickel" and "black nickel photos" on Yahoo.com.  It appears black nickel is a coating applied over a nickel finish.  Based on the Yahoo photos there does appear to be a range in the "black nickel" palette, running from a little darker than nickel to really black.

For example, BOTH these photos are considered "black nickel" (they are from two different manufacturers selling "black nickel" electrical switches:

4.jpg3.jpg



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by zeddd on 2011-02-24 11:30:54

Icewind wrote:

Well, here's the official reply:

"Hi John,  Update: the finish on your guitar's bridge and tuners ARE what our company considers to be "Black Nickel". I went home and double-checked my guitar... it appears that mine is an Alpha Unit which is not what the final release guitars are.  So you do have the correct finish, after all is said and done."

I'm not sure what to do at this point.

Hmmmmmmm. I wasn't expecting that response.

Can you please post the image of your guitar into this thread? You included it in a sister thread but not in this one. As I recall, there was not a "black" thing about your bridge. It's shiny silver metal, isn't it?

Rich is back in town and on this forum. Maybe he will chime in here and give you a more informative response.



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by Icewind on 2011-02-24 11:41:01

Here they are.  Note the bridge and tuner/tuner knob colors.

Here's the photo from Sweetwater.com:

<a target=new href=http://www.sweetwater.com/images/items/1800/JTV89BR-xlarge.jpg" class="jive-image" src="http://www.sweetwater.com/images/items/1800/JTV89BR-xlarge.jpg"/>

Here's mine:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_sK1E3tIABEk/TWA8puEnBBI/AAAAAAAAIZg/GxUR7JhB0_A/s800/_DSC0001.JPG



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by laelamiles on 2011-02-24 11:44:58

Icewind wrote:

Well, here's the official reply:

"Hi John,  Update: the finish on your guitar's bridge and tuners ARE what our company considers to be "Black Nickel". I went home and double-checked my guitar... it appears that mine is an Alpha Unit which is not what the final release guitars are.  So you do have the correct finish, after all is said and done."

I'm not sure what to do at this point.

Wow, more outright lying from Line6.  Amazing.   Somebody get Rich in here, let him tell us that this shiny silver color is Black Nickel (TM of Line6).



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by Icewind on 2011-02-24 12:01:35

To be fair, if I look at it from the right angle and in the right light, I could see the tuners and tuning knobs being considered "black nickel".  The bridge, though?  No way.



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by MartinHines on 2011-02-24 12:40:55

laelamiles wrote:

Wow, more outright lying from Line6.  Amazing.   Somebody get Rich in here, let him tell us that this shiny silver color is Black Nickel (TM of Line6).

No need to go overboard with the comments;  we just need further clarification.



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by MartinHines on 2011-02-24 12:44:41

Icewind,

I would suggest you take a close-up photo of your guitar bridge and send it to Line 6 to get absolute, positive clarification your bridge is "black nickel" and not chrome.

I would agree that your tuning knobs do not appear to be bright chrome, so they probably are black nickel.

I am still wondering whether someone put the wrong bridge on your guitar.

Can you also post the photo here?

For comparison here is a photo I just took of my JTV-69 bridge which is supposed to have a chrome bridge.  I want to see if your bridge is any darker than mine.

JTV-69_ChromeBridge2.jpg



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by Icewind on 2011-02-24 12:45:06

Indeed; and I'm confident the support rep, at least, was not lying to me.  He has fired off an internal email to L6 Marketing to see about the discrepency between ALL the pictures online and my actual guitar.

I've let him know (and he says he gets it) that I'm not sure what I'm going to do, since RMAing obviously won't result in me getting black hardware (thought they may address the stripped setscrew and cosmetic damage near the truss adjustment).  So I have to decide whether to keep, RMA for the screw/blemish, or just return it to Guitar Center.



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by Icewind on 2011-02-24 12:50:04

Thanks; I actually had done that already.  Here's one of the many shots I sent to them:

<a target=new href=http://line6.com/data/u/0a06434ce31a4d6429d37b466/image/jpg/bridge.jpg" class="jive-image" src="http://line6.com/data/u/0a06434ce31a4d6429d37b466/image/jpg/bridge_r17284.jpg"/>



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by laelamiles on 2011-02-24 13:02:06

59.

IMG_3792.JPG



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by MartinHines on 2011-02-24 13:09:59

Unfortunately due to your camera flash, that JTV-59 bridge looks black.  I had to turn the flash off my camera to get a more accurate color on my JTV-69.



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by zeddd on 2011-02-24 13:14:52

MartinHines wrote:

Unfortunately due to your camera flash, that JTV-59 bridge looks black.  I had to turn the flash off my camera to get a more accurate color on my JTV-69.

And Icewind's most recent close-up picture looks like it could be argued to be more black than chrome. I think some of the other bridge pictures I saw looked a lot more chrome. But I'm sure that the batch of photos sent to Line 6 will make that clear.



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by laelamiles on 2011-02-24 13:24:38

Darn!  I think I got black nickel on mine by mistake...  need to give Line6 a call...

Just kidding.  Yeah I can see the tuners and knobs look like black nickel though definitely not the 89 bridge. 

The whole messed up thing here is all the marketing pics all over the place with the beautiful black hardware.  That's just plain messed up.



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by kellybwilde on 2011-02-24 13:30:52

I just got my 89 and it has a chrome tail piece.



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by Icewind on 2011-02-24 13:34:26

Thanks for posting, Kelly!  It's good to know I'm not insane.

Are you satisfied with it as-is, or would you consider returning it over this?



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by kellybwilde on 2011-02-24 14:49:16

Actually I don't mind the chrome.

This is my second 89, I had to return the first one because of a stripped out

truss rod.

I'm just happy this one works works.

Hey Icewind, someone said in my other thread you got $200.00 back from Guitar Center is this true?



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by Icewind on 2011-02-24 14:53:46

kellybwilde wrote:

Hey Icewind, someone said in my other thread you got $200.00 back from Guitar Center is this true?

That's true.  I just called and asked about the coupon on the main page at www.guitarcenter.com and they gave it to me (even though the coupon details say Line 6 is excluded).



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by kellybwilde on 2011-02-24 14:59:01

Is that the soup up your setup? coupon?



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by Icewind on 2011-02-24 15:07:52

kellybwilde wrote:

Is that the soup up your setup? coupon?

Yes, that's the one I got, but when I talked to him I just said, "That $200 coupon".  He never asked for the coupon code or anything.



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by RichRenken on 2011-02-24 15:08:53

Icewind wrote:

This past Friday I received my JTV-89 (Blood Red).  The bridge and tuners are chrome, but all pictures, including the ones on guitarcenter.com where I purchased the guitar, show a black bridge and black tuners.

Is this a marketing error, or is there something strange with my guitar?

Hey guys, so sorry that I have been out of these forums. I have been all over the planet trying to get them out there and overseeing it closely.

Your guitar is correct. Have you heard of something called ROHS? It is a European initiative to eliminate what it deems toxic metals from products that end up in landfills like TVs and the like. Well, we can't prove that guitars won't end up there as an industry so we have to comply. There is a way to make those parts black but not conductive. That is why the knobs are black and the bridge is black chrome. So we tried a few different combinations and showed it to some guys and we decided to make the bridge and tuners Black Nickel and the knobs, screws and strap buttons black.

You can read about ROHS here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Substances_Directive



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by kellybwilde on 2011-02-24 15:12:09

Did you return your guitar, or do you have it now?

cause the coupons date starts tomorrow.



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by Icewind on 2011-02-24 15:13:36

kellybwilde wrote:

Did you return your guitar, or do you have it now?

cause the coupons date starts tomorrow.

I have it now, and he didn't know/care about the fact that it shouldn't start until tomorrow.



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by Icewind on 2011-02-24 15:16:06

Line6RichRenken wrote:

Hey guys, so sorry that I have been out of these forums. I have been all over the planet trying to get them out there and overseeing it closely.

Your guitar is correct. Have you heard of something called ROHS? It is a European initiative to eliminate what it deems toxic metals from products that end up in landfills like TVs and the like. Well, we can't prove that guitars won't end up there as an industry so we have to comply. There is a way to make those parts black but not conductive. That is why the knobs are black and the bridge is black chrome. So we tried a few different combinations and showed it to some guys and we decided to make the bridge and tuners Black Nickel and the knobs, screws and strap buttons black.

You can read about ROHS here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Substances_Directive

Rich, thanks so much for replying.  So I guess all of the photos that are out there (at retailer sites and on line6.com) were taken of some alpha/beta model?



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by kellybwilde on 2011-02-24 15:23:22

Thanks, I just called them and they gave me $70.00 more off.

I got $130.00 off when I bought it. Because of the 10% off from a trade in.

So I got $200 off total.

Thanks



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by laelamiles on 2011-02-25 04:54:22

And in conclusion...

77554_476708002943_337198177943_5917922_3180754_o.jpg



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by RichRenken on 2011-02-25 12:29:11

Icewind wrote:

Line6RichRenken wrote:

Hey guys, so sorry that I have been out of these forums. I have been all over the planet trying to get them out there and overseeing it closely.

Your guitar is correct. Have you heard of something called ROHS? It is a European initiative to eliminate what it deems toxic metals from products that end up in landfills like TVs and the like. Well, we can't prove that guitars won't end up there as an industry so we have to comply. There is a way to make those parts black but not conductive. That is why the knobs are black and the bridge is black chrome. So we tried a few different combinations and showed it to some guys and we decided to make the bridge and tuners Black Nickel and the knobs, screws and strap buttons black.

You can read about ROHS here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Substances_Directive

Rich, thanks so much for replying.  So I guess all of the photos that are out there (at retailer sites and on line6.com) were taken of some alpha/beta model?

Yup, exactly right.



Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by EnglishJW on 2011-03-04 19:20:09
It's good to see you still smiling Rich!

Re: Incorrect hardware on JTV-89?
by SpacePigUK on 2011-03-08 02:06:21

This is saddening.  I've been waiting for the 89's to hit the UK (which a few now have).

The problem with "black nickel", or "cosmo chrome", or "black cosmo", or "black chrome" depending on what each manufacturer calls it, is that it rubs off in a very very short time and looks really crap, patchy and tarnished.  It looks cool for a few weeks of regular playing then its a complete and total waste of plating.

With palm muting you'll end up with the upper 3 saddles chrome and the bottom half still black chrome (he says having about 10 guitars of varying brands with this phenomenon - yes I wipe them down, and no I'm not made of acid).

I was really looking forward to the flat black bridge, as like the bridge on my Jackson, and my new Charvel Pro Mod SoCal (yummy), it would have been much harder wearing.

I know its only cosmetics, but flat black like the above 2 brands would have looked and lasted better.

If it wasnt possible to go fully black as those brands seem able to do, basic chrome is always preferable, so the wearing/tarnish is not as wierd as on the cosmo stuff.

Still, hoping to try out a Blood Red 89 this Saturday.

Cheers




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