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Feedback problems with the HD500
by roesler13 on 2011-03-22 16:50:16

Hi im using the 4 cable method with the Pod HD 500 and my Peavey 6505+ and have encountered a couple problems within the past week. I am getting a high pitch feedback sound after a few seconds if I leave my hands off the strings or stop playing. It happens when the post is at 4 or higher, but when I stand outside the bandroom with the door closed and try to get feedback with the post at 6 or 7 I cant. I never had this feedback problem before. I could play as loud as I want with no feedback. I bought my Pod new about 5 months ago and I bought my Peavey 6505+ new about 6 months ago.



Re: Feedback problems with the HD500
by Nick_Mattocks on 2011-03-23 15:39:43

You might find including a Noise Gate effect in your HD500 signal chain as the first effect helps.

Also can you elaborate exactly on your exact physical connection setup and on your HD500 patch (ie list the FX in order and the FX loop position in the chain, whether you might be using an amp model, the positions of the AMP/LINE switch and the LINE/STOMP switch and your amp make/model)? 

You could always upload your patch here and maybe we can help identify potential causes of your feedback issue

Nick



Re: Feedback problems with the HD500
by addytsoi on 2012-01-13 11:01:03

Hi

I would like to say that I have exactly the same issue.

I am very appreciate the direct output recording quality. But the feedback issue is troubling me in live.

I am using a standard Fender Strat and got a high pitch (~4k - 8k)unwanted (& uncontrolled) feedback when I put the volume to higher level. I have tried with different Fender / Marshall / return / direct PA but same problem.

I have never have this problem in previous years after I become a new Line6 Hd500 user a couple weeks ago.

There is the chain below:

Pre Fx

Noise gate

Decay 50%

Thresh 40%

Post Fx

Vol Pedal

Delay

Amp

Treadplate Pre

Drive 85%

Bass Mid Treble 50%

Pres 30%

CH Vol 45%

87 Condenser mic

Could you assist to help. Thank you.

4 x 12 Tread V-30

Class A/B

III topology

Pent mode



Re: Feedback problems with the HD500
by TheRealZap on 2012-01-13 11:05:27

i had a similar problem with a strat... turned out to be an issue with the wax potting on the pickups...

something you might look at.



Re: Feedback problems with the HD500
by jimsreynolds on 2012-01-13 11:20:14

Are you actually using 4CM?  You seem to have amp models set and if you are using them when you are doing 4CM with the amp's preamp in the patch (i.e. an FX Loop in there and switched on) then I would expect you to have dodgy tone and problems.

If you are doing 4CM then you would either use:

  • A modelled pre-amp or;
  • The amp's real pre-amp

Not both.



Re: Feedback problems with the HD500
by addytsoi on 2012-01-13 13:16:29

Thanks a lot for reply and providing me the solution.

I use Studio/Direct output mode.

I connect hd500 mono output to mixer (the PA) with 1 guitar cable but the high pitch feedback  (plus enlarged single coil noise from 1, 3, 5 pickup) is still existing.

Did you guys experience this same issue?



Re: Feedback problems with the HD500
by roesler13 on 2012-01-23 02:01:41

Of course Im not using the Pod's digital fake tone with my tube amp. Im skipping the amp modeling and just using it for effects. Either way the noise gate doesnt seem to cut much of the feed back. If I use a seperate noise gate (not line 6 of course) it will work just fine and solve all of the feedback problems. Is the noise gate on the Pod Hd 500 just for show or am I missing something? Because its only doing half of the job.

Its what Ive come to expect from line 6 at this point. This is my first time back on this site in months and theres still no news about a DAW for the Pod HD even though the Pod X3 has it.



Re: Feedback problems with the HD500
by jimsreynolds on 2012-01-23 06:43:55

With the 1.40 firmware there is a second gate introduced that may work bettter for you  - 'Hard Gate' designed for high gain tones.


Frankly though, I would look at the levels and noise throughout your setup and get a better understanding of why you have suddenly picked up such bad feedback.  I had a killer feedback problem with 4CM and my JVM410C that I traced back to a ground loop in my setup between the amp input and the loop (more details in the thread here http://line6.com/support/message/317687#317687">http://line6.com/support/message/317687#317687">http://line6.com/support/message/317687#317687),

The symptom was serious hum and  a 'notchy' noise that crept into my high gain tones using the JVM Preamp.  This turned immediately into feedback over a certain master volume level.  I could not gate it at all.  Once I fixed the ground loop I was able to gain out any remaining hiss.

On levels:   your 6505 does not have any controls to adjust loop levels AFAIK so make sure that you have got them set right.  Too much level increase in one area can really destabilise things and in 4CM this is way too easy.

I did a guide for 4CM on the POD 500 a while back.  It might be useful to skim that.  http://line6.com/support/docs/DOC-2522

JIM

">http://line6.com/support/docs/DOC-2522">http://line6.com/support/docs/DOC-2522

JIM



Re: Feedback problems with the HD500
by guitars69 on 2012-01-23 11:11:57

Not directly related, but interesting I think.  I found a bug in the X3L that caused feedback.  When you used the device for 2 different people, ie 2 separate guitar tones using the Guitar and Aux inputs, it would create a feedback loop in the Aux/Tone2 channel.  You'd have to have a high gain amp and the master volume turned up pretty high though.  They never did fix the bug I don't think. 



Re: Feedback problems with the HD500
by hollisp01 on 2012-08-20 07:04:56

Hello,

My spin on  feedback issue is that it only happens when using the High Def amp models.  It happens in these scenarios and for me is quite similer to being very close to an amp turn up really loud.  It is uncontrollable.  My solution is don't us the High Def Models justjuse the pre amp versions as I can get great sounds with them.  Maybe this goes away when using the Line6 HD amplifier XLR'd with the HDPod?

Used noisless pickups for all examples.

1.  No Stage Amp(Just Headphones and the House PA):  Guituar Input->HD500POD->NoiseGate->High Gain High Def Model->House PA

2.  At Home (4 Wire Config):           Guitar Input->HD500POD->NoiseGate->FX Out-> Front of Amp-> Amp FX Out to POD Fx Return->High Gain High Def Model->Amplifier FX Return

3.  GuitarInput->HD500POD->High Gain High Def Amp Model->out to a Fishman Loudbox

Any Help is appreciated.



Re: Feedback problems with the HD500
by cacash_refund on 2012-12-15 15:26:56

I gotta dig this back up, I'm having the same problem.

For me it's not just amp models, it's anything dealing with high gain… for example if I use only a Tube Drive with no additional effects and no amp model and set the drive to 100%, the same feedback occurs. My feedback always happens around the pitch G6-G#6, or around 1600 Hz, if that helps at all. It's most definitely an issue within the POD HD500.

Also interesting: when the feedback is taking place as a result of high gain at the amp model stage and I switch between different cab models, the feedback will change pitch instantly with the new cab, anywhere from a few cents to a semitone away from the cab before, but they're all hovering around the G6 area. Could the fact that there is a slight pitch change between models around the same problem frequency mean there was one universal mistake between the approaches to each respective model's digital design? Or maybe a narrow range around 1600 Hz is for some reason accidentally boosted in the signal immediately upon entering the POD hardware, and any boost in gain thereafter will necessarily raise that problem frequency range and cause feedback? I don't know. How did this thread die? I'm assuming this is a somewhat common issue, and it is absolutely crippling.

Line 6, please give me some kind of hope that this is fixable, with a firmware update or something, anything. As of now this unit is useless in a live playing situation, and that's not acceptable. This issue should not be "assumed answered" just because the thread fizzled out. The problem still exists, and if I have to go to a solution that involves ditching the POD just because this issue was apparently forgotten about then I'm never buying Line 6 again. I should be able to turn up my guitar amp past 2 without having to worry about gating out some kind of crazy POD HD500 feedback. Not cool guys.



Re: Feedback problems with the HD500
by jimsreynolds on 2012-12-16 04:24:08

Again,  4CM right?  Have you investigated the possibility of a ground loop yet?  I remember My ringing tended to be at a certain frequency and that went straight to feedback over a certain gain level.



Re: Feedback problems with the HD500
by cacash_refund on 2012-12-16 19:49:05

No 4CM, just guitar to POD to amp. I don't know a lot about ground loops but from what I've read it seems  they result mostly in excessive and consistent hum through the speaker(s), and my problem isn't hum. Maybe also worth noting, the feedback I'm experiencing does respond to changes in the relative position between my guitar and the amp. As I walk around the room I hear the feedback's level changing (it's almost always present at a high level), and if ground loops normally contribute to consistent noise in the signal then to me this doesn't appear to be a ground loop issue.



Re: Feedback problems with the HD500
by jimsreynolds on 2012-12-17 03:12:26

Based on your description I would probably concur.      Odd though, not many people posting about Feedback Issues here with the POD (other than wanting to know how to get some when they actually do want it!) and I have not had any significant problems personally.  I don't think the issue is endemic to Pods.

Not beyond the realms of possiblity that your particular unit has an issue.  If so, is it under warranty ....?

Before you go that way though I would eliminate every other possiblity in the environment or you will just be facing the same issue later.   I would try different guitars, cables, power strips etc. 

Do you use the FX Loop on your Pod for anything?

Have you tried taking the Pod, guitar and amplification to another room/power outlet and trying it there?



Re: Feedback problems with the HD500
by lukegeis on 2012-12-18 03:33:35

Im wondering what type of fx loop the Peavey has? is it parrallel, or serial? If it is parallel it may be possible to introduce feedback due to the fact that two signals are going through the amp. With a series loop the only thing feeding into it is the signal coming from the FX return. When parrallel the input at the front of the amp would combine with the FX loop and could be a definite cause of feedback.

The issue I have with using a unit like the pod is having an amp which is more than capable of producing it's own type of sound and then running an FX unit  ( like the POD ) to have other sounds. Fo me it's one or the other. I would either use nothing but the amp and use the POD for nothing but FX, or use the amp as nothing more than that and run the POD as the scource of the amps tone. It's a lot of money to play around with to have a hybrid that doesn't get you all the way there. The POD is more than capable of acquireing a convincing sound for just about anything. Be it FRFR, Into FX loop, or otherwise you should be able to get something you are happy with. The 4CM is a cool concept and works well for those that want and need a hybrid system, but it comes at such a huge cost. Set up time is increased and you need at least 2 more cables than a standard set up. All so you can bypass the individual parts of the system for maximum versatility. To me there is no upside to the increased amount of verstility and added patch creation time. I would rather have the POD do all the work, or use it for nothing but FX.

I think at some point the expectations of any such unit are exceeded and the resultant performance is of course up for scrutiny. We all have very high expectations for our 3-5 hundred dollar investment. It's not a cure all product. It's a tool designed to fit the needs of many in a somewhat affordable package. If you were to spend AXE FX money and had these issues I would then be very upset....... For that kind of money it should be an end all tool designed to take on anything that can be thrown at it. When I think of the POD and think about it's FX loop, I don't see the 4CM, I see an external FX unit that goes above and beyond what the POD currently does. When I think of the POD and how I integrate it into a system, I don't think of it as an and all tool, I think of it as a versitility tool that will get me very close to any and all ideas I have. It may never be 100%, but it will get me 90% there. I have never used an AXE FX, but I know for the money it costs, I better expect and be able to get that 100% I want. The POD is not on that level ( but it is very close ) and should be treated as such. All I need to understand is that I can't expect the POD to do everything I ask it to at 100% just because it's possible to do it.



Re: Feedback problems with the HD500
by jimsreynolds on 2012-12-18 07:47:28

lukegeis wrote:

The 4CM is a cool concept and works well for those that want and need a hybrid system, but it comes at such a huge cost. Set up time is increased and you need at least 2 more cables than a standard set up. All so you can bypass the individual parts of the system for maximum versatility. To me there is no upside to the increased amount of verstility and added patch creation time. I would rather have the POD do all the work, or use it for nothing but FX.

Depends on why you bought the Pod.  I bought mine as an effects unit and drifted into the modelling later.   I have a nice, versatile amp and like the tone so 4CM makes sense.  When you look at it, the extra two cables is no different than running a decent pedalboard, with FX both in front of the amp and in the loop.  There is pain up front getting a first, transparent patch built for FX only but after that the patch creation is easy enough.

I use just one modelled patch in a hybrid setup at the moment, for an AC30, but would agree that balancing off levels of real and modelled patches is probably more drama than it is worth.  

For my latest band project (covers), I have chosen to run modelled patches only (for Combo Power Output into a Guitar Power amp via FX Return).  The point here is portability between amps and the next stage would be to port them over as Studio Direct patches for the PA.  I did a first gig with them last week and they worked pretty well (though matching volume levels was a royal PITA as levels seemed to change somewhat with the change of room. 

For live I didn't bother with the 4CM - just guitar->pod input->pod output ->amp FX return.  For setup, it was very useful to be able to flip from a modelled patch to a 'real' 4CM patch to check that the tones were still in the 'real' domain rather than some processed, dynamics-free version that was favoured by my brain at the time.  It is so easy to dial in patches that sound fine in isolation but just blow when mixed into a band context.  You really have to keep on top of the dynamics and EQ and I am forever learning.

(Sorry, just realised how off-topic I am).



Re: Feedback problems with the HD500
by gunpointmetal on 2012-12-18 09:32:25

Volume + Gain = feedback......hard gate is great pre-preamp for this.

One thing to consider is, as mentioned, the potting on your pickups may be bad, you may have a bad cable, or, you might be just running your gain way too high...someone mentioned using the Mesa Pre with gain @ 85%...you would need three gates to keep that quiet at gig volumes, especially with single-coil pickups. Noiseless pickups do no mean no feedback, they just don't produced the hum that standard SC pickups do. If you've tried reflashing and multiple set-ups and you're still having the issue I suggest looking at your your gain. You could try staging it with an OD or comp in front and runnign the amp gain lower. I'm playing through a really loud 1/2 stack with hot pickups but I have no problem keeping the feedback under control unless I want it. Just takes some tweaking...and always tweak at gig volumes...don't set your gates with your headphones on or at a greatl diminished volume then expect them to work the same way in a live context.



Re: Feedback problems with the HD500
by joel_brown on 2012-12-19 08:16:28

I experienced this and fixed it by doing these things.

1) Stuffed hard foam rubber pieces around my guitar pickups, you can't even tell they're in there.  This fixed most of the problem.

2) Adjust the noise gate in the PODHD slightly.

3) Adjusted EQ slightly.

I use a high gain pre plus effects into the effect return of a pair of Mashall amps.  So it sounds like a similar configuration to yours.



Re: Feedback problems with the HD500
by jimsreynolds on 2012-12-20 04:32:29

Joel makes a good point here.  Pickups with metal covers are notorious for feeding back easily with high gain amps.  The metal resonates and that quickly translates to feedback.  The fix is to remove them or damp them,  as Joel suggests.  Another damping trick is to pad the space between pickup and cover with poster putty /blue tack.

The pickups should be wax potted also to prevent the coils themselves from resonating. 

My suggestion to test for this would be to try another guitar with the Pod,  ideally one designed for metal as one would hope the pickups to be well damped.



Re: Feedback problems with the HD500
by lukegeis on 2012-12-20 12:43:53

well if it's the pickups feeding back, you can usually resolve that issue by moving it away from the strings. But if it's an issue with the 4CM and it can be traced to nothing but that, I would bet it has to do with FX loop/POD interaction. Keep in mind that there would also be 2 mor 20' cables in the mix, which as you know act like a microphone!!!!! Test this....... Leave the guitar cable unplugged from your guitar and move it around while the guitar amp is on. I bet you hear noise. Although the noise goes away when you plug thge guitar in, it is only because of the slight short to ground. But in a closed loop system such as a guitar to amp/ amp to fx unit and back, it can still introduce noise. It would be more suseptable at higher frequencies and could be the cause of squeel. Something to test is trying shorter cable for the 4CM and see if it helps? My guess is that if it a prevelent issue it is more than likely an FX loop/ POD interaction. Not all FX loops are made the same. And if the FX loop has any kind of bleed, it could cause feedback due to the high gain of both the amp and the POD unit. I recall that the 3505 has one such FX loop that will allow a small amount of bleed through? At least on the 3505+112 I had.



Re: Feedback problems with the HD500
by JTSC777 on 2012-12-22 09:52:41

EMG pickups-Monster cables(or something of quality)-foam under the nut of the guitar and lowering all the gain stages and using your fingers to do more of the work will help[ a lot. Even bands like Metallica etc...actually don't play with all the gain up on their amps and all the treble and highs cranked. You have to find the sweet spot especially if you play at ear splitting volume. Guitars are inherently noisy-prone to uncontrollable feedback-have live and dead spots on the neck etc....all the reasons we love them!!! If I play a Fuzz Face/Marshall + effects patch on my HD300 and stand in the wrong spot long enough it will get out of control quickly. One of the most important things to learn is to mute everything you don't want to hear with your palm(right hand)-flesh of fretting fingers(left hand if you are a righty). Watch Eric Johnson who is a master of these techniques . Playing loud electric guitar is like trying to control a small elephant! Good Luck!!!




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