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Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by whiteop on 2011-04-05 06:11:03

The HD500 works pretty well for my needs but lately I've heard some Eleven Rack clips and have to say the quality does sound a little better on those units and I don't hear any fizz in the higher gain models. Just wondered if anyone has owned both and what are your experiences? The fizz on some of amp models when turned up is starting to grate on me a little bit and this big firmware update that's supposed to be happening is probably going to take forever so I'm looking at options. Anyone?



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by Deny777 on 2011-04-05 06:28:14

Since this is a Line 6 support board, I think it would be inapropriate to praise other manufacturers here. If you want opinions on HD500 vs 11R I suggest you take a look at TGP, plenty of threads about that there:

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/forumdisplay.php?f=53



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by Octo777 on 2011-04-05 07:02:53

Deny777 wrote:

Since this is a Line 6 support board, I think it would be inapropriate to praise other manufacturers here.

Meh, he has already bought the HD500.........Line 6 already have his money so I don't think they will care if comparisons are drawn.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by Octo777 on 2011-04-05 07:04:26

whiteop wrote:

The fizz on some of amp models when turned up is starting to grate on me a little bit and this big firmware update that's supposed to be happening is probably going to take forever so I'm looking at options. Anyone?

Have you got the latest 1.22 update? It has addressed some of the harsh sounds in relation to the amps that some people were apparently having.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by tim1953 on 2011-04-05 16:17:21

Not really - the fizz is still there.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by Octo777 on 2011-04-05 17:02:39

tim1953 wrote:

Not really - the fizz is still there.

Any "fizz" thats still there is supposed to be there because it's the way valve amps break up. That point has already been established on the other huge thread.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by tim1953 on 2011-04-05 17:09:43

I own a dozen tube amps none have the fizz - they have a gradual break up - a smooth type of distortion unlike the harsh sound that happens with the HD 500 that literally thousands have mentioned on the other thread.

If any of my tube amps had that sound they'd be on Ebay tomorrow.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by TheRealZap on 2011-04-05 18:54:48

tim1953 wrote:

...that literally thousands have mentioned on the other thread.


more like 3... have mentioned repeatedly....



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by jeff5x0 on 2011-04-05 18:59:00

Yup had 2 different Pod HD 500's. Took them both back due to the fizz. Got an 11r and couldnt be more pleased.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by johnnyayyy on 2011-04-05 19:30:35

tim1953 wrote:

I own a dozen tube amps none have the fizz

Which of the 16 amps modeled in the Pod HD do you own?



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by johnnyayyy on 2011-04-05 19:31:33

TheRealZap wrote:

tim1953 wrote:

...that literally thousands have mentioned on the other thread.


more like 3... have mentioned repeatedly....

L to the O to the LZ



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by DeanDinosaur on 2011-04-05 19:37:21

Fizz is there in the best tube amps if you play metal. It's not really a bad thing, I had Marshall amps and my presence or treble were never ever set past five when overdriven, actaully the treble was almost always on Zero with heavy tones to get rid of the FIZZ. If you don't believe this  check out this video on youtube of a dual rectifier, If you like metal, there are tons of fizz there from a real tube amp and it somehow fits the music even though it's not my cup of tea but check it out.  I think it's interesting how no one complains about the Fizz to Mesa, instead they lower the gain and trim the presence if they don't want fizz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyRRfaqhY5g



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by whiteop on 2011-04-06 00:54:55

I own some pretty high quality amps as well (Fender, Mesa, and Rivera) and none have that type fizz when overdriven either. On the plus side the new update made the Twin and Bassman models a lot better. I had liked the Delux better mainly due to the fact that it's general volume was louder to be honest but it appears they raised the master volume on the Twin amp model and now it sounds better. They also appear to have made the Bassman sound a little more realistic and not so bass heavy. I've listened to both the 11R and the HD500 and you can get comparable tones on the HD500 so it's still very useable. If they'd just get rid of the fizz and give us a feature that would allow us to raise the model levels up so they were around the same volume it would help IMO.

I'll do more research before making the leap. I'm sure I'm like others on here waiting for "THE" much talked about firmware update that's supposed to have new features and fix a lot of the problems. I think the HD500 is certainly capable of doing the job with a few tweaks or if they would give us the ablility to modify some of the settings to get rid of the fizz it would help. It's not on all patches and the cleans are very good and the effects decent so I'll wait it out a little bit longer.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by whiteop on 2011-04-06 01:02:54

jeff5x0, what type music do you play and which amp models do you prefer?. That would help a little. I play on a worship team and usually stick to the Fender or Vox cleans and a few higher gain type patches which are basically overdriven AC30s or Fenders or Treadplate amp sims with the gain dialed down.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by AZGdude on 2011-04-06 03:38:11

TheRealZap wrote:

tim1953 wrote:

...that literally thousands have mentioned on the other thread.

more like 3... have mentioned repeatedly....

Yeah, there have been nearly 50,000 views and 900 posts to that other thread plus tons of other discussions about this around the Internet, but there is no harsh fizz issue.   FW 1.22 definitely made things better, but there is still something off in the distortion, especially with humbuckers. Maybe the newly announced 1.3 firmware update will fix the issue?



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by jeff5x0 on 2011-04-06 04:57:11

I play strictly in a worship band. Fender cleans are a must for me. I dont use the Vox a whole lot, but its a great sim. My distorted settings come from the Plexis and the Bogner.  Im not gonna get into great detail here as this is Line 6's forum, but pm me if you have some other questions.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by whiteop on 2011-04-06 06:44:24

Thanks. Well the latest firmware did make the Fender amps sound better with the exception of the Deluxe. The Twin is now my favorite clean amp sim and it's very useful for my needs. I would think the Line 6 moderators would understand about discussing other systems on here. Who knows they might take a listen to the Eleven Rack and get some ideas on what they can do to improve the sound. Even given the fizz issue, the HD500 does so many other things well it's still a very useful tool and capable of delivering very good tones when dialed in right.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by jeff5x0 on 2011-04-06 11:28:22

Well to be honest, I dont think the moderators would care, but the users (reader's) might. I know how incredibly defensive people are about their gear. Myself included. So for me to go into great detail on the hows or whys it works better for me with my particular setup, with my guitar, with the direct to foh, in a Line 6 forum isnt really cool. I have alot of friends here and would never want to disrespect Line 6 or others for that matter by talking about another product here. Besides, it would only be my opinion on my own set up and how it works for me. Ill gladly discuss with you in pm though. Im curious though white, dont you have the DT 50? From all of the clips on youtube Ive heard of the Dt 50 meshed with the HD 500, it sounds really good. Are you having trouble with that set up? Churches are a mess to set up guitar sounds in. Ive had my fair share of trying to cut through all of the frequencies bouncing around everywhere.

I agree with you that the Hd IS very capable of producing good tones. When I had it I loved the Marshall sims. I loved the effects (for the most part), the routing capabilities, the UI, all packed nice and neat in one floor unit. The fizz was just too unbearable for me. And going direct was even worse.....for me anyways.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by mr_slugworth on 2011-04-06 13:33:44

Deny777 wrote:

Since this is a Line 6 support board, I think it would be inapropriate to praise other manufacturers here. If you want opinions on HD500 vs 11R I suggest you take a look at TGP, plenty of threads about that there:

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/forumdisplay.php?f=53

FAIL. MEGA FAIL.

Other gear should absolutely be discussed here, especially Line 6 competitors!



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by mtreehugger on 2011-04-06 13:53:44

I can't believe people are still writing posts that the only fizz that is there is intended to be there!  This is not true.  No way.  If you don't believe us, please go listen to those clips that were posted in the mega-thread a few days back, cuz if you folks think that kind of stuff is intentional or even tolerable... Well, I don't know what to say, I guess.

Suffice it to say that the fizz we are talking about is not what a tube amp would ever put out, unless it were malfunctioning, and even then I don't think tubes could make this harshly fizzy white noise.  It's kinda similar to a rattlesnake or something, with a tad more of a sandpaper texture to it.  Not warm.  Not tubes.  Not coffee out your nose.  Some of it is caused by clipping, but the more constant type of fizz is either originating or being promoted by some other facet of the POD.  With great effort we have learned of some ways to abate these problems to a certain extent, but the problems still persist after v1.22.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by silverhead on 2011-04-06 14:15:48

mtreehugger wrote:

I can't believe people are still writing posts that the only fizz that is there is intended to be there!  This is not true.  No way.  If you don't believe us, please go listen to those clips that were posted in the mega-thread a few days back, cuz if you folks think that kind of stuff is intentional or even tolerable... Well, I don't know what to say, I guess......

I can't believe people are still writing posts denying that the fizz they hear in the Twin model (and others) is not actually produced by the real modeled amps when using hot pickups at certain Drive levels, and would never be considered tolerable. This is true.  Way.  If you don't believe us, please go listen to the original Brown Sugar recording as suggested in the mega-thread a few days back, cuz if you folks think that kind of stuff is not intentional or tolerable... Well, I don't know what to say, I guess

.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by tim1953 on 2011-04-06 14:18:14

To answer your question - I own a 1965 Vox ac 30 top boost with silver bell speakers, a reissue AC 15, Marshall 800 (1980s), 65 Fender Deluxe,

Marshall 45 90s reissue & a Fender Bassman from the 60s.

I've also owned several 60s & 70s Twins which I didn't like - I prefer the Tweed twins, Bandmasters, Showman, 61 Tremolux Fenders.

I've also had a Laney, Mesa Boogie Mark III & Studio 22, Hiwatt & there were others I can't remember right now.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by Octo777 on 2011-04-06 14:37:10

silverhead wrote:

I can't believe people are still writing posts denying that the fizz they hear in the Twin model (and others) is not actually produced by the real modeled amps when using hot pickups at certain Drive levels, and would never be considered tolerable. This is true.  Way.  If you don't believe us, please go listen to the original Brown Sugar recording as suggested in the mega-thread a few days back, cuz if you folks think that kind of stuff is not intentional or tolerable... Well, I don't know what to say, I guess.

Same. The talk of "fizz" on here truly bores me and I laugh when people have considered whatever it is they are hearing that they don't think should be there as intolerable and have sold their HD's.

I've not heard anything negative from the HD's to warrant me selling it.

Maybe it's just because I am a realist and I know that for a shade over £400, I'm not going to get the exact sound of thousands of pounds worth of amps replicated perfectly.........but god damn is it good!!!!

The problem fizz as far as I am concerned, does not exist.

And that's all I am going to say on the subject because as I said, it's getting very old and very boring now.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by mput on 2011-04-06 14:49:21

but g** d*** is it good!!!!

NOT necessary!!    

A little respect please



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by mtreehugger on 2011-04-06 17:25:00

I think it's about time some of you folks took stock of yourselves and ask yourselves why you're posting comments here.  Are you trying to be helpful?  Constructive?  (now there's a laugh)  Do you really think that when someone puts a post in telling about a problem they're having that your telling them they're full of crap has even the tiniest bit of merit?   What's the deal here?  Do you really think making like hired goons is helping Line 6?  You need to seriously step back and take a look at the big picture.

Presumably you mock and ridicule and otherwise attempt to intimidate posters into submission out of a desire to mitigate a negative impact to the reputation of Line 6, and in this case, the POD HD's.  But think about it:  If you were a potential customer thinking about buying one, and you read these posts and saw that posters with "L6" emblems were mocking customers and telling them they're full of crap, how motivated would you feel about buying a POD?  And while you're at it, why don't you stop to think about what it might be like to learn about the POD, check out Line 6's advertising, believe their lofty claims, plunk down your cash, spend hours and hours on it only to be getting fizz, and then have some goon with an L6 emblem swoop in and tell you you're crazy?  Is that helping Line 6?  I think not!

Maybe you don't like the fact that there were 900 posts on a thread that spoke of dissatisfaction with the PODS.  I get that.  Fact is, if you guys weren't so consumed by your own anxt to tromp down on the posters, there wouldn't have been so much controversy, and there wouldn't have been nearly so many posts. You ticked off a number of LINE 6'S CUSTOMERS, which caused them to write back in response, just like I'm doing now.  If you weren't so busy being cyber thugs, if you would have bothered to weigh the content of the messages that you thoughtlessly denounced, you would have picked up that nobody who had or has this problem wrote a post out of a desire to make the PODs look bad.  We all wrote them because we want them to work for us.  Rather than simply giving up and dumping the POD, we're here in these forums trying to find some way that we can keep them.  I'm 100% certain that everybody who posted a concern in the mega thread sincerely did so out of hope that doing so would help them to be able to be happy with their purchase.  We all want to keep our PODs, not dump them.  In my case, I still have 10 days in which to get a full refund, and I can tell you with certainty that you are pushing me in the wrong direction (from where Line 6's interests lie).  I can also tell you with certainty that I am not alone.

If you actually listened to what people have been saying instead of simply trying to stomp them down and shut them up, you might have noticed that people who have shelled out a lot of ching are having problems with more models than the twin.  And seriously, how credible do you think your case is when it's built on a terribly recorded YouTube clip?  The only thing that clip proves is that a bad recording exists on YouTube.  Because we all seem to be intelligent people, this is something that should be immediately obvious to anyone who has enough chops to savvy what a POD even is.  That clip is totally useless and irrelevant to the problem, which--if you'd been paying attention--manifests itself in multiple models, not just the twin.  As for the Twin, I own a silverface dual shownman reverb which is very much the same thing, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that the defects that I hear in the double model do not occur in my Fender.  Whether you hear what I hear is unknown, however, which is another concept you should consider.

One final thought:  If I were Line 6, I'd pull the plug on people that I entrusted to help customers who instead are deconstructive.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by mtreehugger on 2011-04-06 17:43:56

Correction:  Silverhead referred to Brown Sugar, not the YouTube clip.  My apologies for the confusion here.  Let me clarify that the defects that I hear in my double model I do not hear in either Brown Sugar or my Fender.  Also, Silverhead did recognize that it isn't just the twin model.  Sorry!  I believe that specific part of my argument doesn't apply to you, but applies instead to the plethora of other similar posters.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by Deny777 on 2011-04-06 18:26:50

Excellent post, I agree with every word.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by johnnyayyy on 2011-04-06 18:42:09

mput wrote:

but g** d*** is it good!!!!

NOT necessary!!    

A little respect please



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by silverhead on 2011-04-06 19:04:32

Wow. Echoing your own language back at you sure struck a nerve. Maybe such language should be avoided in the first place.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by mput on 2011-04-06 19:55:03



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by amgamg on 2011-04-07 03:57:08

The last time I looked this was a public forum. Honestly I could care less what anyone wants to write about. Just the same if your gonna post on a public forum you can expect some folks to disagree with you or even have strong convictions of their own. If those that run this forum want to edit what people write...its their bandwidth and they pay for it. That gives them the right to judge what's allowed. As for the rest of us...no one as far as I can see has a right to shut up anyone else. If you don't want to risk opposing view points...PM may better suit your needs. Your not the first one to feel like you do. Expecting others to walk on eggshells is wrong and not your right to impose. Post whatever...but not everyone has to tow your line. Besides..isn't it more interesting to hear from more voices. Being right ebbs and flows. Sometimes your the bug..sometimes your windshield.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by Crusty_Old_Rocker on 2011-04-07 04:05:31

tim1953 wrote:

I own a dozen tube amps none have the fizz - they have a gradual break up - a smooth type of distortion unlike the harsh sound that happens with the HD 500 that literally thousands have mentioned on the other thread.

If any of my tube amps had that sound they'd be on Ebay tomorrow.

Better fire up eBay then.  And post the links here so we can pick up some bargains.

You'd hear the power amp distortion characteristics of your amps if you wind up the volume loud enough.  You'd have to record the sound though because it would be that loud that hearing it live is going to be a bit uncomfortable.

Cheers,

Crusty



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by Octo777 on 2011-04-07 04:12:55

mput wrote:

but g** d*** is it good!!!!

NOT necessary!!    

A little respect please

We're not in church now my friend.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by Deny777 on 2011-04-07 04:22:15

Crusty_Old_Rocker wrote:

tim1953 wrote:

I own a dozen tube amps none have the fizz - they have a gradual break up - a smooth type of distortion unlike the harsh sound that happens with the HD 500 that literally thousands have mentioned on the other thread.

If any of my tube amps had that sound they'd be on Ebay tomorrow.

Better fire up eBay then.  And post the links here so we can pick up some bargains.

You'd hear the power amp distortion characteristics of your amps if you wind up the volume loud enough.  You'd have to record the sound though because it would be that loud that hearing it live is going to be a bit uncomfortable.

Cheers,

Crusty

So you're basically saying that when playing the HD500 we all must deal with the power amp at full blast all the time? And you're also assuming no one has ever heard or recorded their tube amps at full volume, even people who has had them for over a decade? And on top of that you're also saying that if they did, it'd sound just like the HD500? Interesting.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by Crusty_Old_Rocker on 2011-04-07 04:51:22

The full amp models in the POD HD include mic modelling.  Any comparison of the POD HD with a real amp must be done on a recording of the real amp being driven at the same level as the modelled amp using the same microphone and microphone placement as used with the model. Common sense dictates this.

Any comparison conducted without matching the mic and level conditions of the amplifier to the model would be fundamentally flawed.

Comparisons really should meet the basic philosophies of the scientific method.

Cheers,

Crusty



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by mtreehugger on 2011-04-07 07:45:39

It seems that the purpose of this thread has evaded most of the posters.  It was started by a guy who owns a POD who hasn't been able to get what he needs out of it, who heard that 11R's might be better, but doesn't want to take the safe and easy road and return his pod unless he's absolutely certain that this is his only option.  He's trying to find out if there's any truth to the rumor.  To date only one responder has addressed this, and we should all be cautioned that we don't know who the responders are or what their biases might be.

Anyone who is having concerns with the audio quality of their hd pods should be aware of two things.  #1 is that the master volume on the pod should be set to max and left there.  This is counter-intuitive, as we're all mostly aware of the issues associated with over-driving a signal in a solid state circuit.  I myself struggled for days with fizz and was very disheartened until I read a post by another relative newbie to these forums that the master should be set to max due to signal-to-noise ratios in the pod.  This was something that would never have occurred to me, and as soon as I tried it I experienced a world of difference, and dramatic improvement in the tones of my hd500.  I suspect that the v1.3 firmware update that was announced yesterday will change things dramatically, but until it's available (targeted for the end of this month) I highly recommend that everyone turn their masters all the way up and use the channel volume knob to set the level.

The other item, also discovered by a relative newbie to these forums, is for the hd500's only.  And is that the default input settings double your guitar's input signal.  This doubles the noise generated at the inputs and does some other stuff too, primarily causing a significant difference in signal level.  If you are running a stereo signal chain, you may need the doubled signal, but if you only use one amp, you might get better results by setting input one to guitar and input 2 to something you don't use (like maybe Variax).  However, some users prefer the stronger signal they get with both inputs set to guitar or input 2 set to "same."  The point here is to be aware of it.  You can easily hear the difference as you cycle through the options for input 2.

Tying the above back in to the purpose of this thread, I'd like to ask anybody who believed that they got better sound with an 11R if they were aware of the above and experimented with these things before coming to their conclusion.  I now get some great sounds from the hd, which as I understand it beats the 11R hands down in terms of both features and price.

Thanks!



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by silverhead on 2011-04-07 08:27:47

Good post, mtreehugger. Let's get things back on track in this thread; it's not about fizz.

Hopefully v1.3 firnware will let us all put the fizz thing behind us - it's caused a lot of polarization and I doubt that there's anything new that can be said about it right now. Your suggestions are constructive and useful, and something all users should be aware of.

Thanks, and peace.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by mtreehugger on 2011-04-07 09:43:41

+1!



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by Deny777 on 2011-04-07 10:17:19

Since no one from Line 6 seems to care that we give our opinions on other gear in this forum, here's mine:

The 11R + MIDI footswitch will set you back quite a bit more than a POD HD500 goes for. Is it worth it? Depends. For people who think the HD500 sounds exactly like the amps it models, it's certainly a waste of money. If you, like myself and a few others, think that the HD series still lack the dynamics, articulation and fizz that's like what comes out of a tube amp (that is, high order overtones instead of a high fixed-frequency digital buzz), by all means buy one, I'm pretty sure you won't regret it. The 11R allows the player to express him/herself in ways that the HD500 just can't, but for that to happen the player needs to be able to play expressively, otherwise like I've said it's a waste of money. In other words, the limitation becomes the player, not the gear, just like with real tube amps.

To my ears and playing style, the HD500 and 11R are *worlds* apart, but I'm well aware ther later is not for everyone. 15 years ago I probaby wouldn't hear much of a difference between the two units as I used to be one of those guys who thought "the more gain the better" and just cranked it and played as fast as I could. Now that I'm more into melodic phrasing and dynamic playing, gear like the 11R make a lot of sense to me. For that to happen I had to swallow my pride and learn how to play with all-tube gear, which BTW is pretty unforgiving, and that's what operated the change in my attitude as a musician. So to sum it up, if you're the kind of guitarist who thinks that there's no sense in playing 10 notes when just 1 will deliver the message much better, then the 11R probably is for you. Note: this doesn't mean that if you like to shred the 11R isn't, it might very well be.

IMHO. IMHO, IMHO, etc



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by evilbert420 on 2011-04-07 10:32:46

Deny777 wrote:

Since no one from Line 6 seems to care that we give our opinions on other gear in this forum, here's mine:

The 11R + MIDI footswitch will set you back quite a bit more than a POD HD500 goes for. Is it worth it? Depends. For people who think the HD500 sounds exactly like the amps it models, it's certainly a waste of money. If you, like myself and a few others, think that the HD series still lack the dynamics, articulation and fizz that's like what comes out of a tube amp (that is, high order overtones instead of a high fixed-frequency digital buzz), by all means buy one, I'm pretty sure you won't regret it. The 11R allows the player to express him/herself in ways that the HD500 just can't, but for that to happen the player needs to be able to play expressively, otherwise like I've said it's a waste of money. In other words, the limitation becomes the player, not the gear, just like with real tube amps.

To my ears and playing style, the HD500 and 11R are *worlds* apart, but I'm well aware ther later is not for everyone. 15 years ago I probaby wouldn't hear much of a difference between the two units as I used to be one of those guys who thought "the more gain the better" and just cranked it and played as fast as I could. Now that I'm more into melodic phrasing and dynamic playing, gear like the 11R make a lot of sense to me. For that to happen I had to swallow my pride and learn how to play with all-tube gear, which BTW is pretty unforgiving, and that's what operated the change in my attitude as a musician. So to sum it up, if you're the kind of guitarist who thinks that there's no sense in playing 10 notes when just 1 will deliver the message much better, then the 11R probably is for you. Note: this doesn't mean that if you like to shred the 11R isn't, it might very well be.

IMHO. IMHO, IMHO, etc

+1. I own both, was hoping the HD500 would be better or at least as good as to make travel a bit lighter. But as of right now, the 11R acts *much* more like my real amps than the HD500. My HD500 is acting as a MIDI controller (which it's pretty awesome for) as I wait to see if things get better with each update.  1.22 definitely helped things, but the lack of "feel/responsiveness" of the HD, as well as the choice of particular amps/channels modelled, keep me using the 11R. The 11R got even better with the new Expansion Pack, which added tons of new amps, cabs, mics, and effects, including a metal amp specifically for 7-string and downtuned guitars which absolutely tears it up, and a Matchless model that is impeccable.

HD fans shouldn't be upset that the 11R is better, as you point out it costs more. The Axe-FX is better than both, but it costs much more too. It's crazy to see people so wrapped up in wanting their $300 POD to sound as good as or better than an $700 11Rack, but that's just not realistic. If the 11R didn't sound better then it wouldn't be getting continued rave reviews and people would be complaining about how overpriced it is compared to the POD. If you check out Avid's forum nothing could be further from the truth.

Additionally, Avid has completely turned around their customer service and responsiveness to customer requests. Two years ago, few nice things could be said about Digi/Avid's service and support. These days they are up their with Taylor and PRS IMO in terms of accessibility and customer service. For example, they use Ideascale to have customers vote and prioritize wants and requests, and they ACTUALLY IMPLEMENT THE HIGHEST VOTED RESPONSES. They also have real employees responding on their forums. Line6 could really learn from this.

That said, I've owned lots of Line6 products (POD 2.0, POD3 bean, POD 3 Live, Relay G50, Lowdown Studio 110, etc.) so I'm not biased against Line6. But as I've stated before, I think the HD line is Line6's equivalent to Windows Vista... lots of great ideas, but too early a launch, bungled execution of updates, slow to fix problems, etc. The fact that MS was able to take that base and turn it into the blockbuster that is Windows 7 gives me faith that Line6 can improve the HD series to reach its real potential.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by johnnyayyy on 2011-04-07 11:04:30

mput wrote:

but g** d*** is it good!!!!

NOT necessary!!    

A little respect please


amgamg wrote:

The last time I looked this was a public forum.  If those that

run this forum want to edit what people write...

its their bandwidth and they pay for it. That gives them the

right to judge what's allowed. As for the rest of us...no one

as far as I can see has a right to shut up anyone else. If

you don't want to risk opposing view points...PM may

better suit your needs. Your not the first one to feel

like you do. Expecting others to walk on eggshells

is wrong and not your right to impose.




Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by johnnyayyy on 2011-04-07 11:15:18

tim1953 wrote:

the harsh sound ... that literally thousands have mentioned on the other thread.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by johnnyayyy on 2011-04-07 11:25:51

Crusty_Old_Rocker wrote:

The full amp models in the POD HD include mic modelling.  Any comparison of the POD HD with a real amp must be done on a recording of the real amp being driven at the same level as the modelled amp using the same microphone and microphone placement as used with the model. Common sense dictates this.

Any comparison conducted without matching the mic and level conditions of the amplifier to the model would be fundamentally flawed.


Bingo! This could not have been stated more clearly, thank you.

Not that anyone who doesn't already get that is suddenly going to have a major revelation tho



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by amgamg on 2011-04-07 12:26:17

I have nothing against the Eleven or Pro Tools. It is interesting to note though that the Eleven which is now getting some internet play has been around for a good long while. Guitar Player gave it a pretty good review around a year ago . That expansion pack is reasonable in terms of price...but doesnt offer a lot compared to when Line 6 offered model packs. Not to mention if Line6 took as long to come up with the current updates as Eleven took to come up with that extension pack all hell would have broke loose. I guess they include patience in the Eleven kit.....J/K



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by mput on 2011-04-07 12:29:27

and that means....???



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by I_am_God on 2011-04-07 12:57:09

mput wrote:

and that means....???

I believe it means, "Free speech ? God Damn is it good!!!!"

I am God and I approved this message.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by Deny777 on 2011-04-07 13:11:38

I_am_God wrote:

mput wrote:

and that means....???

I believe it means, "Free speech ? God Damn is it good!!!!"

I am God and I approved this message.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by evilbert420 on 2011-04-07 13:12:32
It's not Rock'n'Roll if somebody isn't offended.

Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by amgamg on 2011-04-07 13:28:53

Ummmm..Sir....Your Highness....King of Kings...can I trouble you for a '59 Burst...since..your passing by...if its not any trouble....Pah------Leeeeeezzzzzzz!



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by Octo777 on 2011-04-07 13:46:41

evilbert420 wrote:

It's not Rock'n'Roll if somebody isn't offended.

I guess that makes me pretty rock n roll then!!!



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by tim1953 on 2011-04-07 14:44:34

Crusty,

I've been cranking my amps and recording them for 30+ years.

I run a cord into the studio and do my playing in the control room so I don't get plastered with volume.

I know what my amps sound like at all volumes.

Please read my lastest thread and listen to the recording of my Martin acoustic into the HD 500 - in a new tone slot - no amps, effects patched in & the distortion is still there. My conclusion is that it's a hardware issue.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by gregr on 2011-04-07 19:14:39

Comparisons really should meet the basic philosophies of the scientific method.

I have no problem with this, but to those insisting the sound people are finding offensive was present during modeling, how many of you were actually there to witness it?

I stumbled upon this discussion in an attempt to see if people were complaining about fizz with the HD500, which I am considering getting to replace a DigiTech RP1000 which most certainly has this problem, especially with the high gain models, even when they're set with only modest levels of gain and output volume.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by mtreehugger on 2011-04-08 09:42:13

Gregr,

I am not claiming to be any kind of expert, but my take on this is that fizz means different things to different people.  There are questions regarding clipping when using the device, and some concerns that the modeling itself is fizzy.  I've had the HD500 for 2.5 weeks, and have been trying to ascertain whether I like the sound or not.  It sounded very fizzy to me earlier, until I read someone's advice to turn the master volume control (which does not affect gain or tone) to max.  Suddenly it stopped sounding fizzy and started sounding good.  And I must point out that I'm quite picky, and was unimpressed with the Tweaker, Mesa, and Peavy amps I'd tried recently, so for a device like the pod to sound better than any genuine tube amp is a very worthy accomplishment in my book.

The possibilities in this unit are about as close to limitless as I think you can get currently in a single device, and when the update comes out at the end of the month there will be many more tweaking possibilities available.  I bought this thinking I'd sound like Pete Townsend, but I'm finding that I like the more distorted models right now.  Last night I played around with just the Treadplate model, no effects, and had a ball!  I kept the gain kinda lowish and backed off a bit on my buckers' volume, and found that I could lay into it and maul the strings a bit and it just growled and snarled beautifully, but if I used a lighter touch it cleaned up dramatically, giving me a nice articulate but harmonically enhanced sound.  But what was really surprising to me was that it did both at nearly the same level!  A sound man's gotta love that!

The cleaner amps are not there yet IMO, but most likely they will be when firmware v1.3 comes out.

Hope this helps some.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by gregr on 2011-04-08 12:25:07

You're right, it does seem like there may be more than one problem that is being lumped under the heading "fizz".  To be certain, I am not talking about clipping at the input.  Anyway, I'm not convinced that people know what to look for and my first impression of some of the "experts" in this discussion has not been a good one.  I have not come away from what I've read on this issue feeling reassured; on the contrary, I've grown more skeptical; especially of anything said by those who have been badged.  This is too bad, because I'm sure many of you are not simply fanboys with little to no apparent experience with the acutal amplifiers being modeled.

I think I'll bow out of this discussion now because it not on topic.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by jholmgren on 2011-04-08 13:44:32

I own both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack.

I bought the Eleven Rack I thought it sounded pretty good through studio monitors, but no matter how much I tried I could never seem to get rid of the "modeler" sound. Yeah, it seemed to have less "fizz", harshness, whatever you want to call it, but it always felt like it accomplished that by using some sort of EQing that left out frequencies I wanted to hear. Closer to hearing an amp in a different room, instead of right next to you.

I bought the HD500 and was instantly impressed by, and drawn to, the Park 75 model. It put a smile on my face and made me want to keep playing and recording ideas. I still have several tube amps (Splawn, Mesa, Laney), and for live work they're awesome. For now though I'm using a HD500 with a powered PA monitor, which still sounds great and is simple and light.

Every couple weeks I turn on my Eleven Rack for ~30 minutes, thinking I'll get it to sound better than the HD500 (which I can't). Then I turn it off and play for a few hours on the HD500. Don't get me wrong. I still think the 11R has great potential and don't plan on selling it any time soon. I respect the opinion of other posters that say they like the 11R better, and I wish the HD500 had many of the internal features that the 11R has. Maybe the other 11R owners are just better at dialing in a sound they prefer on the 11R, and I'm better at dialing in a sound I prefer on the HD500. I always think it's better to make a purchase decision based on how happy you are with the tones you hear, rather than analyzing specifications or following others' opinions. At the end of the day that's what will make you the most satisfied with your decision.



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by francisb on 2011-04-08 19:51:46

I don't own an 11R, but to my hears everything I heard just sound better than the HD and I think it has to do with cab modeling... Line 6 still have work to do there... Somebody on the TGP forum even compared the sound of an HD amp with it's own cab vs the same HD amp with the 11R cab and results were night and day. Why did I got and HD and not an 11R? The rack format and the fact that there isn't a dedicated controller...



Re: Anyone owned both the HD500 and the Eleven Rack?
by GonzaloTrejos on 2013-01-14 13:29:06

Word of caution. I've seen a lot of "fizzy sound" complaints with sound engineers arguing with guitar players. The "fizz" exists. Most guitar players don't put their ears at microphone distances on their amps when playing, and crank the highs. Some cabs produce amounts of fizzy distortion that is very hard to hear when the amp is aiming at your feet or ankles, but the microphones hear it. I remember clearly an event where the guitar player ditched his L6 POD because of this fizz, went to his car and brought some pedals and his favorite amp, the engineer mic'ed it, and the fizz was there. He just couldn't never heard it before because the amp was always on the floor, and the engineers simply did cut the highs a little in other occasions.

The microphone techniques used to sample the sound of the modeled amps can be a way of explaining why they are so different on various modelers, and why some models appear to have some fizzy sound to them. Digidesign is a brand of sound engineers, not guitar players. They might be tweaking the raw amp sound to a more "natural or perceived" kind of quality.




The information above may not be current, and you should direct questions to the current forum or review the manual.