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You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by nuser101 on 2011-05-09 04:05:51

It's like a Rocky film.

http://www.fractalaudio.com/products-fas-axe-fx-ii-2.html

Notjust improved processors - the algorithms and modeling totally revampled. Wait...I thought the first one exactly mimiced the real thing. Why would you revamp that? I wonder what innovation the III will bring, but I'll probably stop watching the movie by "AXE - iX", in which, faced with increasing competition from actual amplifiers, the unit includes  12AX7, EL34, 6L6, KT66, 6550,  KT88, EL84, and 12AU7 tubes and virtual circuitry, under exclusive license from Bruce Egnater. The unit will be especially innovative, in that it will weigh 500 lbs, and be designed exclusively for the bottom of the rack, since it will come with its own custom noiseless casters for ease of transport. The rack itself, a $900 option, will be called the MFX runner, and have custom cabling otions for the new optional MFC 101-X, which will feature an innovative "FractaPedal" which will control wah and volume by mind control selection.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by BigChas52 on 2011-05-09 05:13:28

Unless you have extremely demanding applications, the Axe-FX II is overkill, without a doubt.  That said, Line 6 dropped the ball when they designed the HD500 as their "top of the line" modeler.  There should have had more horsepower and more flexibility.  It seems to me that many gigging guitarists want something in the middle.  Ease of use and affordability of Line 6, with more power and flexibility.  To that end, Line 6 should have released something in the $1,000 range with A LOT more processing power and more FX chain options.and slots.  Additional wishes for an upgraded Line 6 HDxxxx model would include:  better compressor choices, a real 7 band (or more) EQ, impulse cabs.  I'm sure others could add to this list.

I believe that there are many musicians, like me, who will not consider spending$3000+ for a practical Axe-FX gigging system, but who find the HD500 a large dissapointment, and just not enough.  I am not saying that the Hd500 is not worth the purchase price.  I am saying that Line 6 should have stepped it up an notch.

There needs to be something in the upper middle market space.  That's where both Line 6 and Fractal Audio are missing opportunity.

Honestly, I cannot purchase the HD500.  Sound quality aside, it seems like a step down from my X3L.  Show me an HD800 or even an HD1K and I might be impressed enough to buy one.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Diastro on 2011-05-09 05:37:38

ITT: Ugly truth.

I totally agree with BigChas. I'm a beginner-intermediate guitarist in my opinion, and it's about that time for me to get my own live rig, instead of using basic backline stuff.

I was super excited about the Pod HD line when it came out, but then I found out about Fractal and now I'm in this annoying position of always knowing my gear will never be as awesome because I can't afford it. The HD500 is a good piece of gear for the money, but I'd totally save up for something serious, though not as overpriced or over-specced as an Axe FX.

TL;DR How about a powerful POD HD Pro rack system?

It would make sense. A real, direct competitor to the Axe FX. Line 6 price.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by BigChas52 on 2011-05-09 06:13:47

I don't have a problem with my gear not being the most awesome.  Axe-FX II, for me, is over-the-top overkill!  At some point you reach diminishing returns.  Consider also how much of your tone is in your hands, and even in your pick and picking technique.  I'm amazed at how much better my "tone" has gotten over the last year as my playing has improved, with very little change at all to my X3L patches.

My concern with an HD "Pro" unit is they will just repackage the HD500 in a rack mount form factor with a few better connectivity options.  This is what Line 6 has typically done in the past with their "Pro" models.  For me, this simply will not cut it!



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by phil_m on 2011-05-09 06:17:25

Personally, I'm reluctant to spend $1,000 or more on any purely software driven rig at the moment. I'd rather go the modular route where I use different pieces for my rig. For example, I was able to make a pretty nice little pedalboard anchored by the HD500, and the total cost came to like $800 for a pretty killer rig that I can use either direct or in front of an amp. I think mainstream companies have to invest a lot into in the low to medium end of the market to make it profitable for them to even think about making things for the higher end. It's like Apple. They aren't bringing in piles of cash from selling MacBook Pros or whatever their top of the line product is at the moment. They are profitable because of the iTunes, iPhone, and the iPad.

For a portable live rig that gives me some good home recording options, I actually find the HD500 to be me more than enough at the moment - meaning it offers a lot stuff I will never use. I guess, yeah, I wouldn't complain if someone made something that had everything I desire for under $1K, but I just don't see it happening for a while. Right now, I'm just happy to have gear that I can afford that will get me most of the way there.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Diastro on 2011-05-09 06:26:38

Let's just hope they're learning from those mistakes and actually put more effort into it!



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2011-05-09 06:28:35

Everyone can calm down.

1.  It's a $2200 amp modeler.  Add your MFC101 foot controller, expression pedal, a rack, a power conditioner, amplification, and monitoring and now you're in for about $5000.  For an amp modeler.  $5000 will buy you one incredible REAL amp and effects solution.  And it will sound AND feel BETTER.

2.  It's not a floor unit.  This is Cliff's big, fat, honking, giant mistake in marketing.

3.  If you wanted to try a Standard or Ultra, now's your chance.  The used market will be saturated and you'll pick those up for cheap.  Especially with the AXEII coming in at just $200 more than the Ultra.

4.  If Fractal's position is now unassailable, then explain why Cliff is so bothered by "Line6 Shills"?  Certainly he knew he had this product in his back pocket when he got up in my face for suggesting his product might be one tenth of one percent less than perfect?  He still censors posts about other products and calls his own customers names on his forum.  Why?

5.  I'll tell you why.  Because as much as he and his keep saying that the POD isn't competition, the reality is that it IS competition.  When your own users start jumping ship for a product that costs 1/4 of the price and still delivers great tone, you've got a problem.  And the problem is REAL competition.  The Fractal fanboys can claim, rightly more often than not, that the POD isn't in the same "class", but the reality is that the POD is delivering for some of those folks, and they're making purchasing decisions based upon value for the money.  Some of them even purchasing the Axe first and then selling it in favor of the POD.  Put as many processors as you like in that new Axe-II.  A $500 floor unit that delivers even 95% of the tone is going to be serious competition.  Add a customer service department that doesn't call you names and what do you have to lose?

All of this said, it does look like a nice unit.  Many of the complaints about the 1st generation have been addressed.  It will no doubt be popular.  At least among those that can justify the expense of a $2200 amp modeler.  I will not buy one.  Been there, drank the kool-aid, went back to real amps.  As for recording and modelers, you don't need a modeling solution that costs as much as a real amp to have it sound like one.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by phil_m on 2011-05-09 06:49:08
3.  If you wanted to try a Standard or Ultra, now's your chance.  The 
used market will be saturated and you'll pick those up for cheap. 
Especially with the AXEII coming in at just $200 more than the Ultra.

Looks like the rush to offload the old Axe FXs is starting already. This was listed on my local Craigslist just this morning.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2011-05-09 07:15:49

He's selling for $150 more than he bought it for?

Folks would be nuts to take that offer.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Dime13 on 2011-05-09 12:26:24

Karl_Houseknecht wrote:


  As for recording and modelers, you don't need a modeling solution that costs as much as a real amp to have it sound like one.

Excuse me sir,  thats not the main point of buying it.  It is mainly for home recording people who want close enough guitar sound to a real amp but who cannot afford to have expensive isolated and soundproofed recording rooms designed for acoustics with all these expensive diffusors and absorbers, nor a bunch of expensive mics, or a neve 1081 preamp, nor the Studer A80 mk3 tape machine -  all of which can add up to tens of thousands of dollars.


You can bet any money any day that a person is going to get better sound out of even an Axe FX first generation (never mind the 2 which is supposed to be a noticeable improvement)  than they ever are with their home basement recording space that has questionable acoustics, and an entry level mic preamp and other questionable gear.  There is no chance in hell.  Not even with the best of skilled engineers.   The only way you can surpass the sound of even an Axe FX 1 is by recording in a real pro studio through proper gear AND with the right engineer.   But if the Axe 2 is supposed to be a significant improvement then, chances are it might even sound better than the real thing. (Just like what they did with the Access Virus synthesizer which is DSP yet destroys real analog synthesizers).


And also because people want to avoid the hassle of carrying all this heavy equipment around to live gigs, or those who are skeptical (for good reason) of how the live miking techniques (and their mixers) are going to be at any particular venue.


So I am not sure if you are understanding but even the Axe FX 2 is not supposed to model the feel of being beside a real amp.  Its supposed to model the studio signal chain of a real amp in a recording space, with a mic (or more) in front of it, modeling the transduction process with new extremely high resolution IRs, modeling the signal through a preamp - and thats what you present to your converter. (and with the new one USB direct).  Alot more efficient and better than miking real amps in a questionable  home basement studio if you ask me.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Mr_Arkadin on 2011-05-09 12:57:33

FarBeyond3 wrote:


But if the Axe 2 is supposed to be a significant improvement then, chances are it might even sound better than the real thing. (Just like what they did with the Access Virus synthesizer which is DSP yet destroys real analog synthesizers).

And in this one statement you impart your true experience and knowledge, yeah the Virus destroys real analogue.

<a target=new href=http://www.smileys.me.uk/smileys/Roll_eye/rolleye0011.gif"class="jive-image" height="15" src="http://www.smileys.me.uk/smileys/Roll_eye/rolleye0011.gif" width="15"/>



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Mr_Arkadin on 2011-05-09 12:59:31

FarBeyond3 wrote:

So I am not sure if you are understanding but even the Axe FX 2 is not supposed to model the feel of being beside a real amp.  Its supposed to model the studio signal chain of a real amp in a recording space, with a mic (or more) in front of it, modeling the transduction process with new extremely high resolution IRs, modeling the signal through a preamp - and thats what you present to your converter.

Yeah, I get the feeling that maybe Karl does know that.

<a target=new href=http://www.smileys.me.uk/smileys/Roll_eye/rolleye0011.gif"class="jive-image" src="http://www.smileys.me.uk/smileys/Roll_eye/rolleye0011.gif"/>



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by phil_m on 2011-05-09 13:04:35

Here's another one near me.

They're trying to get out while the getting is good now.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by wardick on 2011-05-09 13:44:18

Almost sold mine about a month ago for economic reasons.  Couldn't find a suitable replacement.  Decided just to keep it.  Even though its old and vintage now it still does what I need better than any other solution out there.  Got another firmware update yesterday though.  Sounds as great today as yesterday, works the same.  Won't be selling it any time soon.  It will be interesting to see where the dust settles over the coming months with regards to resale prices.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2011-05-09 13:46:25

FarBeyond3 wrote:


The only way you can surpass the sound of even an Axe FX 1 is by recording in a real pro studio through proper gear AND with the right engineer. 

So even a novice, when recording with an Axe-Fx, is going to produce results superior to everything else out there?  Nice try.

Novices have been able to provide perfectly sucky recorded tones with the Axe-Fx time and time again.  And with the POD.  And with real gear.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by nuser101 on 2011-05-09 14:20:56

ebay has a full page of them. Lowest price I've seen is $1600. I think it will be difficult to get that if the new one is $2200.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Dime13 on 2011-05-09 20:27:55

Mr_Arkadin wrote:

And in this one statement you impart your true experience and knowledge, yeah the Virus destroys real analogue.

<a target=new href=http://www.smileys.me.uk/smileys/Roll_eye/rolleye0011.gif"class="jive-image" height="15" src="http://www.smileys.me.uk/smileys/Roll_eye/rolleye0011.gif" width="15"/>

And what is that experience and knowledge of mine?  You think you even have a clue?

Yup, virus kills analog synths.   An example of modeling analog perfectly but going beyond with algorithms that impart an even thicker and smoother timbre to the sound than what a real analog synthesizer can do.

Before you open your mouth to speak, make sure you know you are even talking about. Otherwise you will be made to appear an amateur as you have just displayed here.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Dime13 on 2011-05-09 20:33:29

Mr_Arkadin wrote:

Yeah, I get the feeling that maybe Karl does know that.


Well from his post, I have no reason to believe he was aware of what the modeling was actually designed to model.  As he's been saying repeatedly the same thing over and over in many many threads with him assuming that the Axe FX is supposed to model an Amp and cab - when I have pointed out numerous times that this is incorrect and that its supposed to model only the monitoring of it. 

If you have that great feeling he does know - as your "expert" hunches always tell you then why does he not clarify so that people don't have to keep clarifying for him that its not supposed to feel like you are beside a tube amp.  LOL

Nice try.  But just so you know, you kinda blow like bigtime at anything to do with rational thought.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Dime13 on 2011-05-09 20:40:46

Karl_Houseknecht wrote:

FarBeyond3 wrote:


The only way you can surpass the sound of even an Axe FX 1 is by recording in a real pro studio through proper gear AND with the right engineer. 

So even a novice, when recording with an Axe-Fx, is going to produce results superior to everything else out there?  Nice try.

Please do not put words in my mouth.  And please do not misstate my position.  If you take two people with the same level of engineering, lets say - just graduated from a technical institute in sound - (like I did by the way), or even the same person, I stated that their results will sound better with an Axe FX 1 to a converter than if they would mic up the amp through entry level pres, entry level EQs, and entry level compressors in a home basement with questionable acoustical treatment/isolation.   And I even clarified in other words that  the same person or persons, with the same knowledge would need to go to a world class recording studio if they want to get better results than the Axe FX.     But since most music these days is home-basement produced, then I would say that it is a no brainer that the Axe FX is an essential tool to have.


Novices have been able to provide perfectly sucky recorded tones with the Axe-Fx time and time again.  And with the POD.  And with real gear.


And that only helps prove my point.  Semi professionals with at least the basics in studio recording nailed down were implied by the topic of my discussion.   As many people are achieving this level of getting some skill at the recording and input gain staging.   Its not rocket science and anyone can learn it.   But it don't matter. Its irrelevant as I am referring to the same so called subject under these different scenarios (or two subjects with the same skills and knowledge. Give one a home basement with a couple real amps and cabs, a couple dynamic mics, some ART or entry level dbx recording gear, and the other an Axe FX and I bet you any money in the world the Axe FX -equipped will be the clear winner. Even a Line 6 Pod X3 or HD Direct might prove victorious too!   To surpass these hard facts, you would need to put the subject into a world class recording facility with Neves, SSLs, Pultecs, Tube Techs, Studer Tape machines, superior acoustical rooms, Prism orpheus converters etc, etc. 

This is also why its so obvious what one would elect to use live if they were aware of this.   I would even prefer a Line 6 Pod X3 or HD to use live at a venue rather than somebody miking up my cabs - any day of the week. I would feel insulted if a live audio person assumed he knew what mic placement for my cab is best, or what EQ curve works for my rig sound.   If they would try insisting to the contrary and disregarding my preference for such Direct Inject, then I would push the open end of a beer bottle through their eye.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Dime13 on 2011-05-09 20:50:01

nuser101 wrote:

ebay has a full page of them. Lowest price I've seen is $1600. I think it will be difficult to get that if the new one is $2200.



I sold my ultra for 1800 today on Kijiji, not too big of a hit, but done the day AFX2 came out (today) and probabily right before the person had a chance to even be aware or get an update on the Fractal Audio Website.  LOL.


Eagerly Awaiting AFX2. 


Here's a poll:  Who thinks what I did was ethical or unethical?  Cast your votes. 

I told the person the reason I am selling it is to buy other gear. He seemed to be fine with that.  



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by toneman2121 on 2011-05-09 21:51:15

i thought you were gone. what are you trying to say? what are you trying to prove? we already know you're better at everything than anyone else. and you are still attacking people's intellect. when will you learn.

you know what you can do with that poll...Message was edited by: toneman2121



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Dime13 on 2011-05-09 22:16:44

toneman2121 wrote:

i thought you were gone. what are you trying to say? what are you trying to prove? we already know you're better at everything than anyone else. and you are still attacking people's intellect. when will you learn.

you know what you can do with that poll...Message was edited by: toneman2121

You have problems man and you are trying to spread them to me.  Who are you to ask whether I am gone.   I came back for more updates to see if the HD rack is coming out.  I come when i want.  And if i spot fallacies, I point them out to fellow members who might be in question about the issues.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Mr_Arkadin on 2011-05-10 02:39:10

FarBeyond3 wrote:

You have problems man and you are trying to spread them to me.  Who are you to ask whether I am gone.   I came back for more updates to see if the HD rack is coming out.  I come when i want.  And if i spot fallacies, I point them out to fellow members who might be in question about the issues.

Wow the cheek of saying other people have problems. Obviously what happened is you got bored not being able to troll on the Axe FX forum (you'd be kicked immediately) so came here to troll it up again. As with so many things in life, I find those that shout the loudest often have the least knowledge. I bought my first analogue synth back in 1981 and have been buying ever since (and yes I have some digital and software synths too). They all have their place which is why comments like Synth A is better than Synth B is the stuff of playgrounds. But then that's the level we've come to expect of you.

And as to the amateur comment, I think we all know who the amatuer around here is and the idea of you telling anyone here they 'blow' (how old were you again?) at rational thought is incredulous. Keep it coming, I need a good laugh. Pity they don't teach common sense or manners on your sound engineering course (sorry I guess that's not the name of the course as you don't make engines!)



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2011-05-10 04:30:35

FarBeyond3 wrote:

Give one a home basement with a couple real amps and cabs, a couple dynamic mics, some ART or entry level dbx recording gear, and the other an Axe FX and I bet you any money in the world the Axe FX -equipped will be the clear winner.

Any money in the world?  I think that's a losing bet.  Given someone with decent engineering skills (oh, sorry, I forgot that we're not building engines here ) and a good amp, I don't think you'd have a "clear" winner.  In fact, I'd bet you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.

See, this type of challenge has been done numerous times already.  Spot the real amp.  And real "engineers" have weighed in with the wrong results.  This has been done time and time again with "basement" tech.

Dude, nobody in this thread said the Axe-Fx sucks, or that it's not particularly useful.  You don't need to justify your purchase to us.  You are preaching to the choir.  I know first hand that the Axe-Fx is great gear.  My whole point earlier in this thread is that there are more cost effective routes to getting good recorded tone that can yield results that are every bit as good.  I go back to recordings I made with the POD and the Axe, and if I didn't know which was which, I'd be hard pressed to say one was clearly better than the other.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2011-05-10 04:37:34

FarBeyond3 wrote:

I would even prefer a Line 6 Pod X3 or HD to use live at a venue rather than somebody miking up my cabs - any day of the week. I would feel insulted if a live audio person assumed he knew what mic placement for my cab is best, or what EQ curve works for my rig sound.   If they would try insisting to the contrary and disregarding my preference for such Direct Inject, then I would push the open end of a beer bottle through their eye.

I pity the live sound guys at your gigs.  Why do you even hire them?  Your preference of using a modeler live vs real cabs is just a personal preference, but you've clearly got some kind of chip on your shoulder if you're going to ignore the experience of your live sound engineer at your shows.

I let those guys do what they do best, because that's why I've paid them money to do it.  Then I worry about doing what I do best.  Knowing them as I do, they're probably wishing that same beer bottle on your eye too.  If your live sound engineer isn't working out for you, fire them and hire someone who knows their stuff.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Mr_Arkadin on 2011-05-10 04:41:14

Karl_Houseknecht wrote:


Dude, nobody in this thread said the Axe-Fx sucks, or that it's not particularly useful.  You don't need to justify your purchase to us.  You are preaching to the choir.  I know first hand that the Axe-Fx is great gear.

I am going to assume FB3 is still quite young or not world-experienced yet as all his arguments are absolutes. The Axe is better than any other modeller, heck it's better than the real thing. The Virus is better than real analogue. As I said previously - and as Karl has stated here - nothing is invalidated by something else. If I thought the HD sounded better than the Axe does that invalidate the Axe and its users? Of course not. If I buy the Virus is that the only synth I'll ever want or need. Of course not - every synth sounds different, have different uses, excel at different things. It's all about the differences. Differences are good - it stops us all sounding the same. Absolutes show a closed or naive mind. Try opening it up to all possibilities. Even if something claims to be industry standard (a dubious term at best) there's nothing wrong with doing something different, unique.

Oh, and just for the record I have worked professionally for nearly 25 years in British broadcast television. I am freelance. This means I rely on two things: a) my knowledge and b) my attitude. If I was hired for a job and gave your attitude you can bet I might get hired a second time, but by the third time they'll be looking at another freelancer. If you want your career to last then you need to learn to accommodate everyone - even people you disagree with or even overtly dislike. There's a world out there, and it doesn't give a shit what you think or who you are when you need to get a job done.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by nuser101 on 2011-05-10 06:44:55

On a side note, evangelists seem to cause a lot of unnecessary wars.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by amgamg on 2011-05-10 07:11:18

On another side note...perhaps the Axe users will start to malign the  Axe II users and vicea versa...sorta like Godzilla eating its young!



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Rowbi on 2011-05-10 08:34:10

Mr_Arkadin wrote:

Karl_Houseknecht wrote:


Dude, nobody in this thread said the Axe-Fx sucks, or that it's not particularly useful.  You don't need to justify your purchase to us.  You are preaching to the choir.  I know first hand that the Axe-Fx is great gear.

I am going to assume FB3 is still quite young or not world-experienced yet as all his arguments are absolutes. The Axe is better than any other modeller, heck it's better than the real thing. The Virus is better than real analogue. As I said previously - and as Karl has stated here - nothing is invalidated by something else. If I thought the HD sounded better than the Axe does that invalidate the Axe and its users? Of course not. If I buy the Virus is that the only synth I'll ever want or need. Of course not - every synth sounds different, have different uses, excel at different things. It's all about the differences. Differences are good - it stops us all sounding the same. Absolutes show a closed or naive mind. Try opening it up to all possibilities. Even if something claims to be industry standard (a dubious term at best) there's nothing wrong with doing something different, unique.

Oh, and just for the record I have worked professionally for nearly 25 years in British broadcast television. I am freelance. This means I rely on two things: a) my knowledge and b) my attitude. If I was hired for a job and gave your attitude you can bet I might get hired a second time, but by the third time they'll be looking at another freelancer. If you want your career to last then you need to learn to accommodate everyone - even people you disagree with or even overtly dislike. There's a world out there, and it doesn't give a **** what you think or who you are when you need to get a job done.

What they said.

Did I hear someone say Cliff?

Rowbi



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2011-05-10 08:48:43

amgamg wrote:

On another side note...perhaps the Axe users will start to malign the  Axe II users and vicea versa...sorta like Godzilla eating its young!

Now THAT is the funniest thing I've seen here in a while!  I think I might pay money to watch it.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by amgamg on 2011-05-10 09:10:46

Just throw a bag of popcorn in the microwave sit back and watch....its comin'! We should start a pool!



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by amgamg on 2011-05-10 09:36:29

Ya know I've been thinking about this....yeah I should be busier...anyway. Not only have I come to believe FB3 is young and inexperienced...I'd say he's probably around 11 or 12. Not only does he talk in absolutes...the whole conversation is so typical of Junior High School. My dogs bigger than your dog...my dads stronger than your dad...on and on. I'd bet FB3 and a couple of his pals are sitting in front of a computer and getting a big charge outta pulling everyone's chain while stuffing their faces full of pizza, chips and soda pop.Possibly got wind of this site because one of them or someone they know plays a little guitar and bought a Spyder III or something off of ebay. Remember when challenged we couldn't hear his music...no one was allowed to go to his Facebook page. As if you wanted a peek at his Johnson! As if we caught him in the closet ...alone! He really doesn't seem to know the music biz either. I guess today its possible to go to tech school..but most studio guys probably got their jobs and experience from having traveled with mid-level bands...than getting jobs sweeping up in studio's...than kissing butt and maybe get lucky enough to demonstrate some talent ..eventually get taught stuff on the fly. It also seems to me unless your Eric Clapton or your paying a guy to mix for you...your relationship at a typical show might be..plug it in...hit a chord...good enough...get outta here...be back later and don't be late or we'll sweep your gear off the stage and play a tape for a half hour till the headliner goes on. Who knows...I doubt the guy owns an AXE even....but he's read a bunch magazines though..and websites



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by mikey1 on 2011-05-10 10:23:32

An Axe-Fx is not worth 2k and you're stupid to buy one. It's a fad. Like bell bottom pants or earth shoes. Five years from now, it won't be worth a tenth of what you paid for it. Be a man. Get a real amp.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Octo777 on 2011-05-10 11:38:47

I thought Mr FB3 would be far too busy making his "tightest extreme death machines" to be spending so much time on the internet arguing about Axe FX.....



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by amgamg on 2011-05-10 12:12:40

Oh no...you must understand...since FB3 has in fact purchased the tightest of tightest extreme death machine makers...he even has to to bake chocolate chip cookies after school now!



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2011-05-10 12:16:58

amgamg wrote:

Ya know I've been thinking about this....yeah I should be busier...anyway. Not only have I come to believe FB3 is young and inexperienced...I'd say he's probably around 11 or 12. Not only does he talk in absolutes...the whole conversation is so typical of Junior High School. My dogs bigger than your dog...my dads stronger than your dad...

My Operating System is better than your Operating System...

I'm betting he's a Linux user too.  Because it's the best.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by spaceatl on 2011-05-10 12:31:07

Only a Sith speaks in absolutes...



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by gunpointmetal on 2011-05-10 14:15:00

The only one who has the best stuff is me! So stop arguing.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Diastro on 2011-05-10 14:25:49

I like where this thread is going!



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by amgamg on 2011-05-10 14:33:16

Well who knows...there are always those people that buy whatever is hot at the moment. I know plenty of folks who love to brag and brag about their cool stuff.

I've never tried the AXE but I can relate on a different products ......

I bought a Carr Mercury several years ago. Honestly I love that amp. I also have an old Silvertone 1472( I think) basically a poormans tweed deluxe. Heres the point. The Carr has a number of very nice pushed sounds ...as it should. This is a $2000 + 8watt amp. The fact is the Silvertone which a number of years ago cost me $150 also has a couple of very good pushed sounds. Which is better? I'd say the Carr is because for its rating its much louder has better headroom and can be played in a band. Even so....I wouldnt hesitate to drag that Silvertone up to mike and record with it.

Theres other stuff. I really believed when I bought my first PRS I'd never need another guitar. As nice as PRS  is the whole hybred thing isnt exactly 100%. If you want excellent Strat sounds a Fender works better. I could go on and on.

I've never found that by spending the most or by using whats popular to make any real difference.

If the AXE is perfect for some I'm good with that. When people try to push it as the only thing to use....I'd bet anything most recordings are made sans AXE.    



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by nuser101 on 2011-05-10 16:03:35

amgamg wrote:

I bought a Carr Mercury several years ago.

Everybody knows that the only real Mercury's are made by Ford. A professional engineer would never put a Carr Mercury into his garage. C'mon amgang, you know better than that.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2011-05-10 16:43:34

amgamg wrote:

If the AXE is perfect for some I'm good with that. When people try to push it as the only thing to use....

This is the point that FB3 is completely missing.  Nailed it, you did.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by amgamg on 2011-05-10 16:58:59

Well...I'll say this...being the Ford Mercury has a back seat....yeah..its cooler!



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by amgamg on 2011-05-10 17:01:27

This is why I think he's a kid....plus he can make my silliness look rather mature.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by dasvox on 2011-05-10 17:28:55

i continue to be amazed by people who feel the need to tell other people that the things that make them happy shouldn't.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Dime13 on 2011-05-11 07:13:38

Karl_Houseknecht wrote:

Any money in the world?  I think that's a losing bet.  Given someone with decent engineering skills (oh, sorry, I forgot that we're not building engines here ) and a good amp, I don't think you'd have a "clear" winner.  In fact, I'd bet you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.

and for cost reasons, that lends weight to what I was trying to share.

Karl_Houseknecht wrote:

See, this type of challenge has been done numerous times already.  Spot the real amp.  And real "engineers" have weighed in with the wrong results.  This has been done time and time again with "basement" tech.

My whole point earlier in this thread is that there are more cost effective routes to getting good recorded tone that can yield results that are every bit as good.  I go back to recordings I made with the POD and the Axe, and if I didn't know which was which, I'd be hard pressed to say one was clearly better than the other.

I am not even bashing the POD.  I am saying that modeling is the cost effective way to go over signal chains costing tens of thousands which are the only way to get better sound.

Lets say the new HD Pro coming out is going to be what, a thousand dollars max? Or take an Ultra which can be found from 1600-1800 now?   Compare that to the following list of expenses trying to do it the real way to get top end results that sound proper:

tube amp $1500

cab: $1000

microphones: about $500 for an expensive dynamic paired with a $100 SM57

Neve preamp: $5000
Studer Tape Machine (thousands) for used

etc, etc.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Dime13 on 2011-05-11 07:22:25

Karl_Houseknecht wrote:


I pity the live sound guys at your gigs.  Why do you even hire them?

To handle levels and a minimum of balancing all members out even is the least i would put in my trustfor. 

Karl_Houseknecht wrote:

Your preference of using a modeler live vs real cabs is just a personal preference, but you've clearly got some kind of chip on your shoulder if you're going to ignore the experience of your live sound engineer at your shows.

I don't I let him do his job of handling levels and only with his mixing board and providing my own sound through live monitors. But I use my own mics and pres, EQs and signal chain  (or models of mics and pres).

Karl_Houseknecht wrote:

.

I let those guys do what they do best, because that's why I've paid them money to do it.

They are only being paid money to handle levels and maybe add a bit of processing which they are used to for their own venue.  Not to put mics on a cab.  As putting mics on a cab varies drastically at spots only millimeters away.   Their job is not to engineer the reproduction of a tone, its to basically playback the show and ride levels.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by silverhead on 2011-05-11 07:24:20

FarBeyond3 wrote:


....

Lets say the new HD Pro coming out is going to be what, a thousand dollars max? Or take an Ultra which can be found from 1600-1800 now?   Compare that to the following list of expenses trying to do it the real way to get top end results that sound proper:

tube amp $1500

cab: $1000

microphones: about $500 for an expensive dynamic paired with a $100 SM57

Neve preamp: $5000
Studer Tape Machine (thousands) for used

etc, etc.

Wait - are you saying the Axe-FX doesn't 'sound proper'?  The Axe-FX is among that set of not-the-real-things devices like the Pod HD and Ultra - except it costs much more to get the results that don't 'sound proper'. But they all sound very good to me - and the Pod HD seems to be the best value for $$.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Dime13 on 2011-05-11 07:34:22

mikey1 wrote:

An Axe-Fx is not worth 2k and you're stupid to buy one. It's a fad. Like bell bottom pants or earth shoes. Five years from now, it won't be worth a tenth of what you paid for it. Be a man. Get a real amp.

I have real amps.  Whats ure point?  I am not interested in bringing an entire studio signal chain to live venues, I would rather bring a modeler.  Even a Pod HD would be fine and better than the live sound guy miking up my amp.     And for a home basement, I would rather save the 50Gs on the other gear required for pro capture of real amps so for that I would use a VERY GOOD modeler.  LOL.

It seems your experience with the AFX has resulted in a negative opinion - likely due to a lack of engineering capability with the unit in your hands. So the stupidity does not lie on my end.

You have one point though, the AFX Ultra is no longer worth 2k and is losing value, but no one, not even in here would agree that it is depreciating as much as you say.  Even a Pod XT has retained 40% of its resale value.

But the AFX has only depreciated slightly after being out 5 years.  And it might go down even another 25% max from the original value once the AFX 2 is available which the company guarantees is about 15% better sounding. Since the original units was already about 99% to the highest pro level, then this should be interesting to see how the new one will sound.  As that company certainly does not lie.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Dime13 on 2011-05-11 07:43:26

silverhead wrote:


Wait - are you saying the Axe-FX doesn't 'sound proper'?

Where did I say the AFX doesn't.  I am an advocate for it.

silverhead wrote:

The Axe-FX is among that set of not-the-real-things devices like the Pod HD and Ultra - except it costs much more to get the results that don't 'sound proper'. But they all sound very good to me - and the Pod HD seems to be the best value for $$.

POD HD is ok.  Not alot of tone or distortion shaping options though.  Low pass filter sucks. Can't sweep the whole range.  EQs are dreadful.  The parametric is not a real parametric.   But the amps are not bad.  But I don't hear it to be as defined or as tight the Fractal box.   But the worse point about the HD stuff is the cabs IMO. Why can't you import IRs?  LOL



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Polaris20 on 2011-05-11 07:51:44

The AFXII certainly looks neat, but I'm a little disappointed they didn't release an effects-only version, as I have little use for a $2200 modeler. Having two good amps, I just think they sound better, and more importantly feel better to play. I was hoping for a G System competitor.

I was going to get an HD500 for effects using the 4 cable method, and then use it as a modeler for demos, but maybe in a couple months it'll be a good time to pick up a used Standard. It seems people are ditching those in a hurry now that the new modeler that is more realer is out.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by silverhead on 2011-05-11 07:56:54

FarBeyond3 wrote:

silverhead wrote:


Wait - are you saying the Axe-FX doesn't 'sound proper'?

Where did I say the AFX doesn't.  I am an advocate for it.

..

Yes, I think we all understand that you are an advocate. But your post which prompted my response implied that the only way to get the 'top end results that sound proper' is to use the very expensive list of equipment that you provided. I don't hear anyone disagreeing with that. The Axe-FX , whether Ultra or the latest, is among the not-the-real-things, like the Pod HD. All anyone here is saying (expect you) is that, for themselves, the Pod HD is a better-value compromise when comparing price and sound quality. Others prefer to pay the extra $$ for a sound quality they like better. Everybody is right. That's all this is about.

You seem very insistent that your preference is somehow absolute - that anyone who personally prefers the Pod HD value-for-$$ is simply wrong. And that's what people here won't tolerate.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Octo777 on 2011-05-11 09:05:12

FarBeyond3 wrote:

I don't I let him do his job of handling levels and only with his mixing board and providing my own sound through live monitors. But I use my own mics and pres, EQs and signal chain  (or models of mics and pres).

They are only being paid money to handle levels and maybe add a bit of processing which they are used to for their own venue.  Not to put mics on a cab.  As putting mics on a cab varies drastically at spots only millimeters away.   Their job is not to engineer the reproduction of a tone, its to basically playback the show and ride levels.

Wow. What a horrible concieted attitude to have in general, never mind  towards sound engineers!

If I engineered one of your gigs I would make certain you sounded terribe ALL night long.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by mikey1 on 2011-05-11 15:41:30

So, you don't trust the soundman to mic your amp? Yet, you'll go direct. Do you monitor through wedges? IEM? Your going direct into the FOH mixers preamp and EQ section right? And the soundman has control not only over your FOH sound, but also your monitor? You trust him with that?

I mic my own amp. I use my own e609. I also check my FOH sound during sound check. And even if the soundman mucks up my FOH tone, my stage tone is still what I want it to be and I can have a few words with the soundman later. I also have the option of making my point with volume. Going direct, you're screwed. Bad monitors, crappy mixers, and simple human error makes going direct a nightmare for an actual gigging player. Every board, power amp, monitor and soundman is different.

The Axe-Fx is a great sounding unit. Much better than anything Line 6 has in my opinion. But it is way overpriced simply due to the availability. And like I said, modeling is a fad that has waned. It peaked two years ago. It will soon go the way of the dodo. It's not like keyboards where a piano or B3 is not viable. Most analog pedalboards are about the same size as an HD. And amps have gotten really good and dependable.

Guys doing duos, hotel gigs, casinos, church, places where volume is an issue will still use modelers direct. It's a great option for that. Or maybe even players that work in a static environment where they always use their own system in the same room and can dial it in and leave it. Like a house gig. But if you think you can waltz in with your HD, X3L or Axe-FX and plug into any board and sound great, you don't have much experience actually doing it. 



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2011-05-12 06:02:26

Octo777 wrote:

Wow. What a horrible concieted attitude to have in general, never mind  towards sound engineers!

If I engineered one of your gigs I would make certain you sounded terribe ALL night long.

I think he took care of that by telling the sound guy what he can't do.

I've, at times, miked my own amp and done well with it, but every now and then a sound guy surprises me with some different way of doing it, or with a different mic.  And guess what?  Sometimes it even sounds better.  I remember this one show where I found a kick drum mic pointing dead center on one of the speakers on my cab.  I asked the sound guy about it, with a little apprehension, and he said, "Trust me, you're going to like this."  So I did.  And he was right.

Lean not on your own understanding.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by mikey1 on 2011-05-12 07:42:34

I need a programmable, high quality, all analog, true bypass, non clicking and noiseless multi effect pedal. Is that too much to ask for?



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Polaris20 on 2011-05-12 09:12:29

Here you go:

http://www.carlmartin.com/product_octaswitch.htm

Justadd your favorite true analog pedals.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by phisk on 2011-05-13 10:43:17

I would just buy an axe fx 2 if your are really rich and the price tag (2200 $) doesn't bother you at all. Technology advances too rapidly. Even the Axe FX 2 will be outdated too soon .

Axe FX 3 in 2014? Maybe!

Pod HD delivers the tone (90%), is constantly improved via firmware update. And that's enough for me for playing live. More tone for the $.

Axe Fx 2 is well made, but over top for me.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Polaris20 on 2011-05-13 11:04:13

$2200 gets me a Roadster, or a Mark V, or a Stiletto. I'm just not interested in paying that much for a modeler, even if it's obviously more flexible. Yes, I realize the AFX models the whole chain. I get it. But for playing live or jamming, nothing (so far) beats a unpredictable, dynamic tube amp. For effects and recording, a POD HD is fine.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by niceman626 on 2011-05-15 05:13:29

Over priced why not buy a dual core i5/7 and use guitar rig 4? You can get all that under a grand. This stuff(axe fx) reminds me of eventide back in the 70s 80s 3000 to 5 grand for the flaship processors H3000..Line 6 is on the right track. I would like to see pitch shift with +1/-1 tweaking, among some other top notch stereo effects. However, for the price who is going to sell more product? Line 6.The HD is new they will be improving over time. Once again 499.00 or 2200.00 no brainer! Get the HD and put a Pitch Factor pedal in the loop case closed! And still under a grand...



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Polaris20 on 2011-05-18 09:56:34

Guitar Rig 4 isn't going to sound as good as an AFX or even HD series. It does a decent job, but leaves much to be desired in the dynamics dept.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by niceman626 on 2011-05-18 13:51:39

How is the for dynamics? This is Guitar Rig 4

http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=10334235&q=hi&newref=1



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Polaris20 on 2011-05-18 13:54:21

niceman626 wrote:

How is the for dynamics? This is Guitar Rig 4

http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=10334235&q=hi&newref=1

Niceplaying, however the tone, in my opinion, is terrible. I've heard better tones out of POD Farm.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by mikey1 on 2011-05-18 22:04:17

Those Eventides are still being used and are still selling for huge dollars. I'd buy one. The industry standard for a very long time in an unbelievably fickle and edge driven market. Line 6 or even Axe-Fx for that matter, should be so lucky. They haven't even achieved industry standard status let alone maintain it for that amount of time.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by mikey1 on 2011-05-18 22:35:59

I disagree. I wouldn't use it live, but for recording, GR4 is a great sounding, resource hogging plugin. It's a routing monster. Signal chain mayhem. And because my computer is the mac-daddy, I never hit the memory wall.

I've only tried the presets on the HD. They sounded like poo. Unusable in any scenario I might be involved with. GR4 on the other hand has excellent, highly usable presets.

I'd take Podfarm, GR4, Amplitube, Nigel, or GTR over the HD or Axe-Fx any day. Plugins have so many advantages over boxes for recording. I can easily automate a plugin and tweak that automation. Cant do that with Axe or HD.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Polaris20 on 2011-05-19 07:20:17

mikey1 wrote:

I disagree. I wouldn't use it live, but for recording, GR4 is a great sounding, resource hogging plugin. It's a routing monster. Signal chain mayhem. And because my computer is the mac-daddy, I never hit the memory wall.

I've only tried the presets on the HD. They sounded like poo. Unusable in any scenario I might be involved with. GR4 on the other hand has excellent, highly usable presets.

I'd take Podfarm, GR4, Amplitube, Nigel, or GTR over the HD or Axe-Fx any day. Plugins have so many advantages over boxes for recording. I can easily automate a plugin and tweak that automation. Cant do that with Axe or HD.

GR4 isn't horrible; I'm just saying I've not found it to have the dynamics of the AFX or POD HD. They've indeed come a very long way, however, and I definitely prefer GR4 over Amplitube or Revalver.

Also realize that I own neither a POD HD nor an Axe-FX, so I'm not a "fanboy".

As for the flexibility, of course GR4 is incredible. That stuff is a lot easier to do when interfacing with it via computer. Additionally, pretty much any computer made in the last few years can easily handle it, so that's a non-issue. On the NI boards, I see many have even had decent results with netbooks.

I'm about to get the new NI audio interface, which includes a "lite" version of GR4, and then upgrade is only like $70 to the full version. So I'll have that, POD Farm, and my regular amp rig. My brushes to paint with, ya know?



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by niceman626 on 2011-05-19 08:04:26

Thanks for the kind words Im such a slop player however, I do this for a hobby. I have owned all pods, and never ever could get the thing to have that feel, the G4 nails it. When I used the Xt live I line out to the XT from my marshall then shut the amp sims off and well it rocked. I tried the 400 never did get the HD500, Check my sound clips on that link their are others,where I used soundtoys plugin(eventidish) and well it really sound to my ears pretty close to a 5150ish tone. I know I have a blast with G4 as the routing as stated from the other member here is off the chain. The feel is incredible, I'm yet to really tweak it it to the max and get the most out of it.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by niceman626 on 2011-05-19 08:09:50

I agree on all thee above. And yes the older H3ks are selling still anywhere from 800 on up 1500.00. I have tried everything out their except axe fx to much cash for me to spend I can not see it.  Thats just me tho. I would like to try podfarm however, is their that annoying fizz to it? I do not get that with G4 whatsoever.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by mikey1 on 2011-05-19 10:56:54

I think Podfarm is just as good as GR4 but with an easier, more intuitive interface. Podfarm has a better workflow that resembles real life. Most of the plugins these days are really good.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by mikey1 on 2011-05-19 11:15:44

I'm a big fan of NI. With the exception of their registration process. What a pain! The best money I've spent was the NI B4 VST. I've used it on hundreds of recordings. I can play the part and automate the drawbars and Leslie while the track plays. Then I can place nodes on the automation track and make minute adjustments that would be very difficult to do while playing the part. It makes me sound much better than I actually am. I have pretty much every plugin they make and I've never been disappointed.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by niceman626 on 2011-05-20 11:18:02

I agree Mikey Ni has their stuff together. I wonder if they will ever produce a G5 pedal, ie podxt HD ect ect. I downloaded the trial podfarm 2.5. Damn I am not impressed Im sorry it sounded horrible compaired to G4, same ole buzz stuff zero real feel. I did dig the platform, and I hope I dont get flammed since its the trial however, I couldn't dial anything close to the G4..

Great weekend to all rock out!



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by bobnoe on 2011-06-03 07:39:21

Dear friend, you forget one fundamental thing, the Axefx is not an amplifier but at least a dozen amps all together and let me tell you, one that had the pod xt pro for several years, there's just history, it's like compare a Porsche to a Ford Focus (which you can compare?) It 's true that if you add all that you've described it takes about $ 5,000 but it's the same thing you should do a pod, without count that related directly to the mixer is just a bomb, seeing is believing.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Polaris20 on 2011-06-03 08:00:06

And yet the Axe-FX still doesn't sound as good as a Boogie miked with an SM57 into a half way decent preamp.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Mr_Arkadin on 2011-06-03 08:47:14

bobnoe wrote:

Dear friend, you forget one fundamental thing, the Axefx is not an amplifier but at least a dozen amps all together and let me tell you, one that had the pod xt pro for several years, there's just history

Dear Mr One Post friend, I think Karl knows exactly what the Axe-FX is.

btw, anyone heard of this Two Notes stuff?

http://www.two-notes.com/en/hardware/torpedo-vb-101/

http://www.two-notes.com/en/hardware/torpedo-vm-202/



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by bobnoe on 2011-06-03 12:36:50

No, I do not think he knows it or prefer to deny the obvious. Discredit a productbecause it costs too much and drive so convinced (or try to convince others) that whatyou have is better, therefore, does not seem to me an objective opinion. Who speaksbetter than he used to and a large pod xt pro (since 2004) and has recorded severalCDs, but believe me if I say it is another world (dynamics, sound effects, etc.)..



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by bobnoe on 2011-06-03 12:40:29

Yes, maybe that's so (many are not convinced at all), you should always considerwhat you want to do (if I want 3 or 4 sounds just perfect, I bought an amp with cabinetand stop) but if you search a lot more sounds (a bit 'as the pod that was the precursor)from acoustic rock to blues to metal more rampant, I can not consider axefx a perfect machine for ease of use and much more. The cost is certainly high, but as for the PC,if you want a machine traveling at good speed, we all want $ 4-5000 (for PC only !!!).This in effect is basically a dedicated computer .... However, I would like to know who would not like to sound like this that I send you the link .... (and is just one of hundredsof possible sounds !!!). Forgive my poor English (I'm Italian).     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NXunIvK24s



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by
Polaris20 on 2011-06-03 12:40:31

Karl has owned the Axe-FX, now owns the HD, and also has a ton of real amps. I'll believe him over someone with two posts and zero credibility.

I don't believe you when you say it's another world. You know what another world is? A real tube amp, through a real mic, through a real microphone preamp. That's another world.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Polaris20 on 2011-06-03 12:44:05

I cannot consider it (the Axe) perfect either. That's why I've got a 6L6-based two channel amp that sounds amazing in clean, mid-gain, or high gain tones, and an EL34 two channel amp that gets amazing clean, mid gain and high gain tones.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by bobnoe on 2011-06-03 13:40:38

Another digital world, what Line6 has done to a certain point with Pod and the comparison is between them. HD does not know him and I'd love to hear somethingon you tube, send me some links that are interesting, meanwhile I am sending yousomething as an example ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqkO2DsnALo



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by
Polaris20 on 2011-06-03 13:56:16

Yeah, I've seen a ton of Mark Day's stuff.

His CAE clips sound even better.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Polaris20 on 2011-06-03 14:06:51

http://soundcloud.com/clark-kent-job/pod-hd-redwirez-this-good

Soundsgood to me.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by bobnoe on 2011-06-03 14:29:13

Yeah, very nice, a bit 'away from my sound, but the momentum is there and it feelsgood. Mark, for example, use of mixed systems for the amplification, one channel  of axefx directly into the mix and the the second channel in a tube or transistor amp to taste, taken with a mic and always poured into the mixer. In these cases we speak ofthe mixed system, digital and analog / tube or transistor, in short, the new world I told you before.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2011-06-03 15:36:28

bobnoe wrote:

No, I do not think he knows it

Dude.  I owned and gigged an Axe-Fx for the better part of a year.  I know it.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Jasonwb007 on 2011-06-06 20:11:34

I've used pedal combinations, multiple rack-mount units and all-in-one units and spending the money to get everything together is certainly worth the money.  I don't own either the Axe-FX or a Line 6 amp, so I don't back either.  However, there's a huge advantage in having an all-in-one, both in terms of noise and progammability.  I have and old Digitech GSP-2101 for one right and a JMP-1 and Digitech TSR-24 with PPC for the other.  Having a single box, with one foot pedal is a big advantage.  Integrating the preamp and effects helps a lot.  And I'm saying that even with the JMP-1 being a far superior preamp.

Personally, I think the Axe-Fx II is probably worth the money and I find it amusing the most common criticism of it is that it has too much! :-)



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Polaris20 on 2011-06-08 08:53:14

I don't think the Axe-FX is too expensive, nor do I think it sounds bad. I just think 95% of its fanbase are cork-sniffing douchebags.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2011-06-08 11:09:50

While that's funny, I know a lot of good guys that use them.  And none of them are cork-sniffers.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Polaris20 on 2011-06-08 12:05:48

Thus the 95%. 94%, perhaps?



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by bobnoe on 2011-06-08 12:14:56

Yes, I agree with what you say in the end, in certain situations with axefx you can complicate the lives with hundreds of parameters in the setup and maybe someone just did not like this and decides to sell well. For those accustomed to working with Eventide Eclipse (I use at times and sometimes in an fx loop of the two channels), compared to the complexity of axefx is a breeze, and knowing you can make good use of very sophisticated tools for what you need (if you're looking for something, otherwise you satisfied with the pre-set very good, but axefx used so it is wasted).Finally I think that axefx II it's a very positive step forward towards fully compatible with PC (USB and Ethernet to connect directly to a dedicated pedal, as I had seven years ago with pod xt Pro and FBV shortboard and much more). Forgive me again for my bad English ... maybe some of you speak Italian? I guess no one ....



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2011-06-08 12:15:19

Polaris20 wrote:

Thus the 95%. 94%, perhaps?

I have no clue.  But they aren't cork sniffers.  I didn't rule the other possibility out.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by wardick on 2011-06-08 13:53:28

Hey my Ultra is up on Feebay.  Guess my DB goes with it.     No I am not getting AFXII or anything Fractal..... nor Line 6.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2011-06-08 17:39:36

wardick wrote:

Hey my Ultra is up on Feebay.  Guess my DB goes with it.     No I am not getting AFXII or anything Fractal..... nor Line 6.

LOL...yes, you're no longer in the DB category.  I must admit, I was there too.

What you get? Real amp?



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Polaris20 on 2011-06-08 18:46:35

Karl_Houseknecht wrote:

wardick wrote:

Hey my Ultra is up on Feebay.  Guess my DB goes with it.     No I am not getting AFXII or anything Fractal..... nor Line 6.

LOL...yes, you're no longer in the DB category.  I must admit, I was there too.

What you get? Real amp?

Oh stop, you guys aren't douchebags. You wouldn't be on Line6's board if you were. You'd be above it all.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by WSheehey on 2011-06-09 07:11:01

I've used it all, both for recording and live.  I just read through this thread which popped up on a search I did for the Axe FX II.  Someone nailed it early on (in the midst of all of the name calling and hypocritical remarks - my favorites boil down to people ganging up on someone for knocking someone elses' opinions and then knocking his) - it's amazing that anyone would presume to tell someone why they shouldn't be happy - or something to that effect.

The "real" vs. "fake" arguement is the most tired out there.  Who cares?  The only thing that matters is how it sounds to you.  Even the "feel" arguement is really about how it sounds in response to your playing.  Well, that and your back when you're setting up or tearing down.

If you use amps and mics and don't mind being limited to what they can do (assuming you don't take a ton with you when you play), that's fantastic.

If you have a processor that sounds good and works for you, wonderful.

I've used amps and mics, Pods (xtl, pro, hd), Eventide, other COSM stuff, Axe FX Ultra - like I said, both live and for recording.

My current live rig includes various guitars including a JTV59 into a Relay G90 into an Axe FX Ultra with MFC-101 through a DBX Driverack and BBE 882i through a Presonus Studiolive and into a pair of JBL PRX 635s and JBL PRX 618SXLFs.  I was monitoring through the Sennheiser IEMs but have switched back to JBL PRX 612s for wedges.  I keep all of the rack gear in an Odyssey rolling case.  For me, this is a really compact, sub $15k rig that all fits in a small enclosed trailer.  It doesn't weigh a lot, but most importantly, because we do a majority of covers, I can replicate any mic'd amp, cab and effect very accurately.  That for me is the why I use the AFX.  Going direct to a PA is so much easier than micing an amp.  No feedback issues, less gear on stage and the sound is blended, rather than louder in one place.   That's my opinion - I'm not knocking anyone who likes to use regular amps and cabs that are mic'd.

For recording, if I can imagine a tone, I can produce it with the Axe.  Again, I can emulate mic'd cabs very well.

The AFX Ultra falls short in a few areas that are really important to me: there is no direct link to a computer for recording dry and/or wet tone.  The controls on the front of the unit aren't intuitive.  The connection to the MFC sucks - it requires 3 3rd party MIDI items and 2 MIDI cables (if I want to adjust presets on the computer while using the controller).  Fortunately the AFX 2 solves all of these problems.  The increased processor power and increased control over sound and increased number of cab emulations don't matter much to me.  I can already make the AFX Ultra sound amazing.  I couldn't get any of the L6 gear to do all that the Axe does.  It's not "over the top" for me because I'm picky about sound.  It's also worth every penny.  In fact, I'd pay double for it because I am so picky.

It's all opinion.  I've seen patients cured of terminal diseases because they believed in their treatment, not becaue the treatment was that effective.  To presume to tell someone that what they think sounds good, doesn't - or tastes good, isn't - or looks good...  That's ridiculous.  Sharing an opinion on the other hand, that's human - and very cool besides.

And for the record, I love to sniff the cork.  I drink the best.  But I figure that we're only here once, so I do what makes me happy.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by wardick on 2011-06-09 07:28:46

Karl_Houseknecht wrote:

wardick wrote:

Hey my Ultra is up on Feebay.  Guess my DB goes with it.     No I am not getting AFXII or anything Fractal..... nor Line 6.

LOL...yes, you're no longer in the DB category.  I must admit, I was there too.

What you get? Real amp?

I have decided not to disclose anything that I end up using.   Let people guess rather than already have opinions.   For example I use Dunlop picks.  Now we can debate which model and thickness is best and how they sound digital or not and compare to every other pick out there.  Without a doubt the guy paying $50 for boutique pick is going to have the best tonez right? 

This fits the subject matter:  http://soundcloud.com/wardick/pir-5-0



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2011-06-09 07:57:01

wardick wrote:

I have decided not to disclose anything that I end up using.   Let people guess rather than already have opinions.   For example I use Dunlop picks.  Now we can debate which model and thickness is best and how they sound digital or not and compare to every other pick out there.  Without a doubt the guy paying $50 for boutique pick is going to have the best tonez right? 

I have a boutique pick.  Stumps gave it to me.  One of those starpics made of stone.  It's cool.  About $30, I think.  Without this pick, nothing sounds right.

I also use Dunlop picks, the Big Stubby 2mm ones.  Love them.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by aaron__aardvark on 2011-06-09 22:49:54

Charlie,

Your tune sounds good!  I'm trying to remember if I've heard that one before.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by toneman2121 on 2011-06-10 03:24:33

you got an axefx II



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by wardick on 2011-06-10 07:41:46

@ Karl  -  I can get by with any pick that doesn't flex

@ Aaron  -  You heard it before.  Drums are probably all different and rhythm guitars were redone.

@ Toneman  - nope and no plans to get one either when they start shipping.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by AudioMajik on 2011-06-23 18:17:52

It seems that this thread has become a Line6 users vs FarBeyond thread.  Despite the tone of his posts, he's actually made some good points..
I find that the words "for the money" play a HUGE part in conversations pertaining to the Axe FX as well as the HD500. 
I believe the HD500 is a very viable option for a lot of guitarists as most gigging guitarists just need the basics to be covered with a few nice bonuses.  The HD is good...well, probably great for that.  While I was underwhelmed with its versatility compared to my GT-10, I think the high gain amp sims are good (better than the ones in the GT) and that this unit is great for a lot of gigging situations.  If that's all you need, paying $500 makes more sense than $3k. 
BUT...
When it comes to sound and tone CREATION, there is no comparison.  The HD500 can't even touch my GT-10 in that department.  As far as quality effects combinations and what's possible, there are things that you can do with a tool like the Axe-FX that you simply can not come close to in any Line6 piece.  That's not a knock to Line6 - its more of an understanding of the marketing of the different products. 
I have a lot of effects, effects processors and so on.  I'm not a fanboy of any company.  I buy the tools I need for the purposes I need them for.   While I haven't taken the Axe-FX plunge yet, I plan to  because for me, a tool like that is pretty much the ultimate in one-stop-shop tone creation outside of a laptop and many effects plugins (which I also have). 
Not everyone is interested in creating unique tones or spending a lot of money to get certain sounds.  Not all tones require a box like the Axe-FX or even a box like the HD500 for that matter.  It really all comes down to your resources vs. your interests vs. your g.a.s. for any particular piece of gear.
The very nature of the title suggests a snide dig at Fractal Audio for improving on their product.  Wouldn't Line6 users be interested in a HD600 or HD1000 if they came out with it?  What's the difference?  People pay for what they want.  If you have $3k to spend on something that does exactly what you want it to, then why not do it?  Fractal Audio isn't in the same market as Line6, so the whole argument seems to be a bit moot, IMO.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by phil_m on 2011-06-23 18:49:23

The Axe-FX suffers (although, suffers probably isn't the correct term) from the same type of image issues as any high end product does. When people see someone driving a Porsche, for example, they tend to make a whole lot of assumptions about that person. They probably aren't correct a large portion of the time, but they exist. We Americans (and probably other nationalities as well) have a weird relationship with luxury products. On some level, we all want them, but on another level we want have animosity towards those who actually have them. I suppose it's just human nature.

Honestly, the money isn't even the biggest issue for me with the Axe FX, though. I just have no desire for a piece of rack gear like that at the moment. I don't have the time to put into really learning how to use it well, and I really just don't ever see me wanting to. Maybe if I were actually a professional musician and making music were my day job I would. But right now, it just has zero appeal to me.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2011-06-23 20:16:12

AudioMajik wrote:

It seems that this thread has become a Line6 users vs FarBeyond thread.

All he had to do is open his mouth for that to happen.  Seriously, have you seen some of the stuff he writes?

FarBeyond3 wrote:

the more blocks you add to the signal - the more analog and  vintage it sounds

Really?  Is he serious, or is he just playing everyone to get his jollies?  I hope it's the latter.  Because he seems like he's a 12 year old.

AudioMajik wrote:

there are things that you can do with a tool like the Axe-FX that you simply can not come close to in any Line6 piece....

While I haven't taken the Axe-FX plunge yet...

It's okay to have a healthy respect for a unit you don't own or haven't played yet.  But I have to ask, how do you know this for sure?

Fractal Audio isn't in the same market as Line6, so the whole argument seems to be a bit moot, IMO.

Consider that many Fractal users are both current and former Line6 users.  A lot of Axe owners have PODs.  So I'd say it's the same market.  Or that there's at least a considerable overlap.  And that's why the talk about value for money matters.  Go over to the Fractal forum right now.  There are people over there considering the HD500 instead of waiting for the Axe-II.  And since the price of the Axe-II has been increased to $2600...yes, that's right, $2600....without even a foot controller which will run you another $750, and a $150 expression pedal, and a rack, and a power conditioner, etc, etc...now you're talking $4000 and you need a small hand truck to wheel your rig in.  HD500:  ~1/8 of the cost of the total rig and you can carry it in a bag with one hand.

There are advantages to both tools.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by AudioMajik on 2011-06-23 21:18:32

Karl, I HAVE played an Axe-FX.  I don't own one, a friend of mine does.  All you need to do is crack open the manuals for the two units to know that the Axe has more features and possible effects combinations and just the ability to use custom IRs alone opens up another realm of possibilities that simply don't and can't exist in the HR500.  Although you may have owned one for sometime, it doesn't sound to me as if you tested the full potential of the unit.  I hit walls with the HD500 just playing with it in the store, and there are lists of some of them on this very site, so I know it has shortcomings.  That doesn't make it useless or worthless by any stretch;  it just helps categorize where it goes in the scope of tools.

There ARE advantages to both tools.  That what I said in my post.  We are not in disagreement there.

They are not exactly in the same market.

Example:  Electro Harmonix makes a great pitch shifting pedal - the Hog.  I think its around $450 or so.  Eventide just recently made some lower end pedals but before that, they had the H7600 and the H8000w, both of which cost thousands of dollars.

One could argue that subjectively, for guitar harmonization, you could buy a Hog and its quality is more than adequate for great pitch shifting/harmonization - you would not have to spend thousands on an Eventide.  That would be correct.  One could also argue that the Eventide is as good as it gets in the harmonization department and the device does a lot more than pitch shift, and the combos/possibilities are greater, and you get pure high-end product for the money you spend.  That would be correct, too.

The quality gap is definitely getting smaller each year as technology advances but at this point, there is still a substantial difference.  I can only speak for myself but it only took me one hour with the Axe-FX to know I was going to have to get one.  I went into the HD500 HOPING it would kill my g.a.s. for an Axe-Fx (and save me a grand or so) but it didn't.  I did discover that a liked some of the preamps a whole lot, so I'm still considering an HD300 eventually just to have.  I'm not a novice at equipment and I don't mind reading manuals and learning new devices if I'm going to use them to suit my purposes.

Also, you can get a Behringer FCB1010 and use it with the Axe-Fx.  You don't have to spend the dough for their controller and the last time I checked, neither the HD nor the Axe comes with actual power amps, so you'd have to buy those anyway.  If you are starting from scratch, its an issue.  If you aren't (like many players), then you already have an amp of some form to connect it to.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2011-06-24 03:50:52

AudioMajik wrote:

Karl, I HAVE played an Axe-FX.

My apologies for assuming you didn't.  You're right, the feature set is considerably stacked in the Axe-Fx's favor.  And I'd expect that from a device costing so much more.  You're also right that it sounds fantastic.  I enjoyed the crap out of mine.

I only took slight issue that you said the "value for the money" argument wasn't applicable because they aren't in the same market.  Clearly there's a big overlap.  If both you and I and lots of other people have either owned or will own an Axe and an HD500, then that's proof right there. 

As far as the whole price point thing goes, even with just the Behringer controller, you're still talking about a unit that's about 5 times more expensive than the HD500, so naturally some people are going to question that decision, and indeed some already are questioning waiting for the Axe-Fx II.  I certainly won't be buying one of those.  $2600 for a modeler...way too rich for my blood.   I'd rather buy another really nice tube amp for that money.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by rograt on 2011-06-24 11:29:32

"As far as the whole price point thing goes, even with just the Behringer controller, you're still talking about a unit that's about 5 times more expensive than the HD500, so naturally some people are going to question that decision, and indeed some already are questioning waiting for the Axe-Fx II.  I certainly won't be buying one of those.  $2600 for a modeler...way too rich for my blood.   I'd rather buy another really nice tube amp for that money."

Amen to that. Another of many pointless posts that belong to Harmony Central or The Gear Page rather than Line 6's own community forum



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Polaris20 on 2011-06-24 11:39:27

rograt wrote:

"As far as the whole price point thing goes, even with just the Behringer controller, you're still talking about a unit that's about 5 times more expensive than the HD500, so naturally some people are going to question that decision, and indeed some already are questioning waiting for the Axe-Fx II.  I certainly won't be buying one of those.  $2600 for a modeler...way too rich for my blood.   I'd rather buy another really nice tube amp for that money."

Amen to that. Another of many pointless posts that belong to Harmony Central or The Gear Page rather than Line 6's own community forum

The cost of the AxeII is not $2600. It's $2200 after the immediate coupon code you receive after you get on the waiting list. This is until they clear out the que. If you want to sit there and continuously hit refresh on the store button, then yes, it's $2600.

It's an interesting way of managing orders, but apparently it works for them.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2011-06-24 11:58:33

Polaris20 wrote:

The cost of the AxeII is not $2600. It's $2200 after the immediate coupon code you receive after you get on the waiting list. This is until they clear out the que. If you want to sit there and continuously hit refresh on the store button, then yes, it's $2600.

It's an interesting way of managing orders, but apparently it works for them.

Yes, $2600 if you buy outright.  $2200 if you get on the list and wait for what's going to be a very long time.  Or, you can apparently email Cliff and drive to his office and pick one up for the discounted price.

Still...$2200?  And you can't buy a lower end model like the Standard or Ultra anymore.  Smart move on Cliff's part.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Polaris20 on 2011-06-24 12:50:20

Karl_Houseknecht wrote:

Polaris20 wrote:

The cost of the AxeII is not $2600. It's $2200 after the immediate coupon code you receive after you get on the waiting list. This is until they clear out the que. If you want to sit there and continuously hit refresh on the store button, then yes, it's $2600.

It's an interesting way of managing orders, but apparently it works for them.

Yes, $2600 if you buy outright.  $2200 if you get on the list and wait for what's going to be a very long time.  Or, you can apparently email Cliff and drive to his office and pick one up for the discounted price.

Still...$2200?  And you can't buy a lower end model like the Standard or Ultra anymore.  Smart move on Cliff's part.

What are the time estimates you saw? I've seen people are already getting them.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by spaceatl on 2011-06-24 13:15:22

Sorry to barge in here...But I see the complexity of the AXE as a shortcoming...Eventide too...TC Helicon Vocal Live...Oh man, worst manual on the planet I think...These are great units, but they are NOT writting tools in my mind...By the time I get the tone I want, I will have forgotten the idea and that's no good...To me, that is an important part of the equation because I spend most of my time writting...I do post production also, but then that's UAD and other stuff...Yea, that stuff takes time...But I don't try to write with that stuff...I really don't see the absolution in folks having to rationalize that some unit is better than another...better for you, him, her...cool...Not better for me...last thing I need is another 19" something or other with menus that are 300 levels deep...I got enough of that...

I don't see it as different markets...I see it as completely different part of producing music...Some guys need the AXE..>It fits thier workflow...More power to them...And I think that is why there are lot of folks that have both units...more colors to choose from, that all...Where it fits in the flow is a very personal thing...I think that is the point that is most often overlooked when trying to kindly say the AXE is better than the POD...who cares?



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by wardick on 2011-06-24 14:35:37

rograt wrote:

Amen to that. Another of many pointless posts that belong to Harmony Central or The Gear Page rather than Line 6's own community forum

Its the Line 6 lounge.  The perfect place for discussion of this nature.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by wardick on 2011-06-24 14:47:56

spaceatl wrote:

Sorry to barge in here...But I see the complexity of the AXE as a shortcoming...Eventide too...TC Helicon Vocal Live.I do post production also, but then that's UAD and other stuff...Yea, that stuff takes time...But I don't try to write with that stuff...I really don't see the absolution in folks having to rationalize that some unit is better than another...better for you, him, her...cool...Not better for me...last thing I need is another 19" something or other with menus that are 300 levels deep...I got enough of that...

Where it fits in the flow is a very personal thing...I think that is the point that is most often overlooked when trying to kindly say the AXE is better than the POD...who cares?

About the UAD.....  Every discussion about the Axe-FX ends up at it cost too much.  Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't.   UAD is something I looked into recently.  UAD cost too much.  For a QUAD that I could probably easily crush with my requirements that has 4 processors costing about 30$ each why is the street price $1499?  Thats  a bigger markup that any comparitive discussion to Fractal with Tigersharcs.    Anyhow that was just a tangent thought.....  UAD not going to happen for me because of the buy-in price and that I would probably need 2 or more of them.

To your latter comments.  That is the bottom line, nail on the head stuff.  I have used both, now I use neither and nobody cares.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Polaris20 on 2011-06-24 14:50:13

I think the "it costs too much" argument is absurd. It's made in the US, and has 70 amp models, plus effects, for $2200. Any decent amp will cost close to that. Why does it have to be cheap if it's electronics?

On the other hand, the POD HD series are made in China, and are quite affordable. That doesn't make either one a poor value.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by wardick on 2011-06-24 15:09:45

Polaris20 wrote:

I think the "it costs too much" argument is absurd. It's made in the US, and has 70 amp models, plus effects, for $2200. Any decent amp will cost close to that. Why does it have to be cheap if it's electronics?

On the other hand, the POD HD series are made in China, and are quite affordable. That doesn't make either one a poor value.

I do not disagree with your post.  The Fractal is a great value for what it is and I never got into that "its cost too much" thing with that product, but this forum is full of such statements.  I wanted an Axe-Fx a couple years ago so I bought one.   I could get and AXE-II if I wanted, but I don't want.  Line 6 is also a great value for what it is, but I don't want that either.   Cost and features aside I go with quality and reliability every time with everything I purchase.  Longer term with where I am now and gear and based on my history with both companies I will say that I would go Fractal again or someplace else and that I would not even consider using Line 6 again.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by mikey1 on 2011-06-24 15:58:20

That's where I am too. I'll keep the Line 6 stuff I have. Mainly because nobody will buy it. I might fart around with it now and then. But I can't imagine Line 6 coming out with a product I'd buy. I came very close to getting the new 64bit Podfarm but luckily saw the posts about the problems. And even though it seems to be sorted now, I think I'll pass.

Someday though, I might get a Fractal.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by silverhead on 2011-06-24 16:06:10

mikey1 wrote:

.... I'll keep the Line 6 stuff I have. Mainly because nobody will buy it. I might fart around with it now and then. ...

Really? I'm pretty sure that depends on your price. You must value your farts highly.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2011-06-24 18:35:44

Polaris20 wrote:

What are the time estimates you saw? I've seen people are already getting them.

Yes, some are already getting them.  Many of those are the people paying the premium of $400 extra to jump to the head of the line, or driving to Fractal HQ in Massachussets.  I think they are working through the wait list, but from the comments I've been seeing, the numbers are in the 100's+.  Haven't seen any estimates about what it will take to get to the guy who jumps in at the end of the line now, but I'm guessing on the order of months.  Remember the good old days of the original Axe where the wait list stretched out more than a year?

I do totally agree with just about everything you said about the Axe and Axe II.  Price really isn't horrible when you consider it's a quality manufactured item, the feature set, and what's in there, as just a high end effects unit alone.  I can't justify it for my needs, though.  The M series effects kick serious tail, and they're so easy to dial in.  And at 1/5 of the price, how can you go wrong?  But hey, it's a big world and everyone likes something different.  What a great time to be a guitarist!



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by AudioMajik on 2011-06-24 19:06:57

Karl, what I meant by not in the same market is that the HD500 is clearly in the $500 floorboard category.  Every large fx maker has one:  Boss GT-10, Digitech RP1000, Zoom G9.2tt, Vox Tonelab, etc.  All of these major companies keep their floorboards at the same basic price point, so it really becomes more about what they can cram into a $500 box.  I certainly wouldn't expect it to be on par with the Axe-Fx.  The whole idea behind the Axe was to create a product that was in bewteen the high end effects racks like Eventide and TC Electronics mfxs and the $500 floorboards.  There seemed to be a big jump from $500 (mfx floorboards) to around $3500-4000 (high end mfx racks).  The reason there is crossover in the market was (I think) by design - to pick up a few people who would pay a bit more for better product but wouldn't (or couldn't) bring themselves to shell out $4k+ for a big rack rig. Its a product that hits in the center of two markets.  Its high end enough to roll with the big boys but still just right there in the price range for you to pony up for it like you would a nice amp or put it on the credit card if you don't have the cash outright.

Spaceatl:

I am an audio engineer.  Gear like the Eventide and TC aren't aimed at the local band boys doing gigs on the weekend.  They are aimed at the studio markets.  They are aimed at people who are going to run the gear that you pay a lot of money per hour to record on.  They are aimed at studios that record broadcast commercials and the like, not the cover band guitarist market.  You don't see them as writing tools; well - really they aren't, or rather, that's not their primary function.  They are post production tools that can be used as pre-production tools.  Engineers are supposed to learn this gear so that when you come into a studio to record, you tell us what you want and we make it happen. Boxes like the HD500 are made for you and I think its great.  I own quite a few MFX units, pedals, and a few racks myself.  Everything has its use and I try to respect each unit for what it does.

For what its worth, I'm hoping for the day that all of this crap comes down in price.  There will always be high end gear for big studios just like there will always be luxury cars for rich people but the quality is increasing greatly every year.  I think the FX gap is closing fast and gear like the Axe-Fx II will come down to about half of what it is now in the next few years.  Just a 15 years or so ago, ADATs were a few thousand dollars each - now you can pick one up for a hundred or two on feebay. Technology grows quickly each year.

I was dreaming of a device like the Axe-Fx back in the early 90s.  Now, the tech is here, in use and almost easily affordable.  I hope in the next few years, chip technology will force ALL of these companies to have to drop their prices.

I suspect that Fractal Audio will have to change their business model soon or fade into obscurity because the tech will catch up to them but for now, they actually have a good product at a good price point for right now.

The market crossover is because its now a viable option for SOME MFX buyers.  Hopefully soon, it will be an option for ALL.  I'm not on anybody's side but my own.  I'm for getting the best quality for the cheapest price.

And I agree, Karl.  This is the best time in history to be a guitarist technology wise.  Good tone has never been this affordable.  If I truly wanted to, I could do a gig with my little Pandora PX4.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by phil_m on 2011-06-24 19:20:46

Well, either Fractal will licence their technology to someone else who can put it into a mass produced piece of gear, or they'll remain relatively small and boutique. Even Eventide and TC make stuff that is meant for pedalboards now. And honestly, they probably make a lot more money doing that than selling their rack stuff. Personally, I think rack-based guitar rigs will soon be on their way out completely, but that's just me. With mobile computing getting more and more powerful all the time, I think the future will be in incorporating these sorts of devices into guitar rigs. If anything, the hardware may remain just to be a way of protecting the brains, but beyond that why do we need racks full of aluminum and steel chassis for effects and whatnot? I suspect racks will disappear before tube amps themselves.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Polaris20 on 2011-06-25 09:53:15

I think Cliff would jump in front of a train before he licensed out his technology. He seems pretty set about remaining a small company. Then again, money talks......



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by spaceatl on 2011-06-27 08:51:46

Sorry I did not get back a little sooner...I have spent about $800 total on UAD...I have four UAD-1 cards and bought in the year UAD-2 came out...I bought 2 new ones and 2 used ones...My main reason was to get the Pultecs...But I use them for more than that now...I never really have more than 30 tracks and I can give everybody an EX-1, Pultecs on most of the groups, Some Precision De-Essers, Reverb Pro...I use them for fundementals...I would like to move up to UAD-2 and from what I understand a single UAD-2 quad is 10x the DSP that I have in these 4 UAD-1s...Another thing I like is the Nigel Modeler...Nigel does not exist in UAD-2...I try to get cool stuff cheap...I am a cheap spaceman...But I have mixed on real Harrisons, SSLs, The First Paragon and jsut about any console you can come up with...I left he biz in 96 so things have moved ahead from where I was then...But I have kept up some....For me the gear really doesn't matter as much as it used to. But dang, I just had to have a Pultec...That was the compelling reason for me...And now I can use more of them than I ever could back when I was a real pro...funny how that works...



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by spaceatl on 2011-06-27 08:52:38

thank you for the lecture, I will try to keep it in mind...



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by mikey1 on 2011-06-27 10:14:53

I have a Pod Pro in at 150.00 and a Flextone III with a shortboard and Line 6 cover at 300.00. Both in great condition. Not even one bite. For months now.  I don't even get contacted by scammers. I'll end up going down to 250.00 which is what I paid for the shortboard alone and I still won't get any takers. Nobody wants this stuff. It has nil resale value.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by mikey1 on 2011-06-27 10:19:38

I'm running 4 UAD-1's. I can't live without them. I bought the last one for 75 bucks. I think the most I paid was 99.00 and it came with a 50.00 voucher. Smartest buy and most bang for buck of anything I've ever bought.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by silverhead on 2011-06-27 15:43:51

The numbers you mention are a far cry from nil. If you reduce further they'll sell. Remember - you're comparing to leaving them in a closet except for the occasional farting around. So, if you're serious that you find them otherwise worthless - then what's stopping you from dropping your price?  How about a no-reserve listing on ebay? Let the market decide what they're worth.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by mikey1 on 2011-06-28 07:57:30

Ok, since you asked. Because I'll feel ripped off. I'll feel like an idiot for buying it in the first place. It goes from being gear I own to being to gear I took a huge loss on. It illuminates in sharp relief the mistake I made choosing Line 6. I'm proof there's a sucker born every minute. I'll eventually find another one.

Thanks for the swell advice though. No wonder you're an expert.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Polaris20 on 2011-06-28 08:07:19

mikey1 wrote:

Ok, since you asked. Because I'll feel ripped off. I'll feel like an idiot for buying it in the first place. It goes from being gear I own to being to gear I took a huge loss on. It illuminates in sharp relief the mistake I made choosing Line 6. I'm proof there's a sucker born every minute. I'll eventually find another one.

Thanks for the swell advice though. No wonder you're an expert.

I think you're over-thinking and dwelling on this too much on this, dude. Just sell it, if you're not using it.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Mr_Arkadin on 2011-06-28 08:08:22

So you value gear not for what it sounds like but for its resale value? Personally if I have a piece of kit that I like the sound of I don't care about its resale value. If you don't like the Line 6 sound why buy all the kit in the first place? There must have been a point where you thought it sounded OK.

Sure, we outgrow things and after the honeymoon period we all reassess, but I can't see how that makes what you heard before suddenly complete shite. It must have had some value to you beyond money. Unless money really is all you care about, which might explain your rudeness.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by TheRealZap on 2011-06-28 08:14:15

mikey1 wrote:

Thanks for the swell advice though. No wonder you're an expert.

ok... we get it.. you don't like your line6 gear.... that's wholly permitted...

by why you gotta be a complete *Doooooshbag to a guy that's simply trying to find you a way out....

i've known silver for a number of years and really he was only trying to be sincerely helpful.

you have your reasons for not pursuing the avenue he presented fair enough...

but was it really such an offense that he offered the thought?

in any case... everyone with or without a tag under their name on some gear forum or another....

is an expert on something....

he's here and considered an "expert" because of his passion for gear and his willingness to help others...

i'm not sure why you find fault in that...



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by wardick on 2011-06-28 09:39:55

You are same boat I was in back in 2008.  Seems like you have 100% made up your mind so do yourself a favor and just sell it all now for whatever you can get for it.  It will set you free.  I had blowout sale on my fully loaded XTL, X3L, the VST when it wasn't free, Variax AC700 and whatever else from the 6 was around at the time.   Poof... gone no regrets and spent the roughly $900 or other things.  I still from time to time come across the rubber variax jack cover.  Its the only Line 6 gear I have left. 

I'm going down the same path now with another company and their gear.  I can still get a really good price even, but I'm still wavering. Listed it once even, but it didn't sell.  Can probably get more for now than a couple weeks ago.   I could even buy the newest widget if I wanted but don't.   Not sure what fork in the road I am going to take at this point.

Good luck, you will pull through.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by mikey1 on 2011-06-28 14:50:10

Seriously?? I post something perhaps a little sarcastic in response to something I thought perhaps a little sarcastic, and you call me a "complete *Doooooshbag"!  Holy double standard Batman! I assure you that "doooooshbaggery," was not at all complete, and nowhere near what I'm capable of.

If you want to be intellectually dishonest and say he was only trying to help, fine. But, why don't I deserve the same benefit of the doubt? Maybe you missed the part where he said I must value my farts? Now that I read it again, hey! It does sound helpful! (there's that sarcasm again) I'm sure all of the experts are fine people and not at all influenced by the free gear or inflated sense of importance. They would never think of attacking someone with a differing opinion. (darn! there it is again)

I eagerly await the next insult.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by mikey1 on 2011-06-28 14:51:32

Maybe.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by mikey1 on 2011-06-28 14:52:26

We've already had this agrument. In my opinion, you lost.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Mr_Arkadin on 2011-06-28 14:57:53

Looking at your last posts I find it ironic you accuse others of self-importance. Please do show us what you're truly capable of on the insults front, I'm sure it will be very revealing as to your true nature.

I see music gear to you is stocks and shares, not an artistic investment. That's fine but don't be surprised if everyone isn't all boo hoo about you taking 'a loss' on your 'investment'.

I never thought it was about winning and losing. I find it a little sad you feel you have to win.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by mikey1 on 2011-06-28 16:33:36

Nice going! You'll get that expert status yet! It takes a keen sense of the hypocrital and you my boy, have it in spades! Clear off a shelf for your new gear. I'll bake a cake!



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by spaceatl on 2011-06-28 16:53:58

could we all chill a little? Mikey is venting...let him vent. If that is how he he feels, that's just where he is...and we are in the Lounge and I try not to read this stuff too closely...Heck, I have not been around that much lately...

Maybe it's just too many negative vibes these days from everywhere...must be that trial in Florida flooding the TV all the time...

No, no Rodney quote, but...men please...good vibes...



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by TheRealZap on 2011-06-28 16:59:43

i honestly never stated an opinion on the subject matter at hand....

either agreeing or disagreeing with your opinion....

i honestly have no opinion to offer... word of mouth says the axe stuff is great... ok...

i'm happy with the gear i use... one day i'll want something different and then i'll look elsewhere...

maybe the fart comment was an attempt to lighten the mood... or a straight up joke...

in either case i wouldn't regard it as a personal attack... just a failed attempt at humor...

silver owns that and he can certainly defend his own comments.

your comment was clearly more than a little sarcastic... an approach i utilize frequently, and can fully appreciate.

noone wants to see it.. but i'm sure that we could go neck and neck with the doooshbaggery as i can bring it too....

i don't have any desire to go there honestly... i thought perhaps you didn't realize how poorly your comments came across and that pointing it out would bring the whole thing back to adult land... clearly my dooshbag comment ran contrary to this goal and i apologize for the offence.

he was trying to help with the post fart comment...  that's pretty obvious... why would he follow up the fart thing at all if he just wanted to hit and run...?

i do like participating in the beta programs when offered.... being an expert is not a guarantee of anything...

but contributing in that manner allows me to get attention for the issues i might have with the gear...

in that respect you'd probably be a welcome addition, as you seem to have many issues with the gear (NO SARCASM)

i can tell you that the betas sometimes get a rough start... but as it goes they listen... and things happen... often good things...

but clearly not every request is feasible for any number of reasons.

no insults for you... but i'd be happy to help bring attention to your issues with the gear if you'd care to list them...

i mean seriously... we'd all be crank starting our cars if someone didn't offer a better idea...



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Mr_Arkadin on 2011-06-28 17:25:47

spaceatl wrote:

could we all chill a little? Mikey is venting...let him vent. If that is how he he feels, that's just where he is...

One can vent without being insulting, although venting in itself is rather a dull internet experience after a while.

If for one do not like to be referred to as "boy" or the inference that I'm after some sort of expert status, so forgive me if I don't really feel like sending good vibes to someone who feels the world owes him over his purchasing choices.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by silverhead on 2011-06-29 07:02:49

Since I appear to have started this little firestorm, let me try to cool things down by explaining myself.

The original fart comment was a failed attempt at humour. My apologies to Mikey1 for that - but I really was only verbally riffing on your 'farting around' comment. The later post was really an attempt to help and to understand. What I really couldn't understand, Mikey1, (and still don't) is how you can express such negative feelings toward any piece of equipment (not Line 6 specific) - saying it is so worthless to you that you no longer use it, and that it has nil resale value because nobody wants it - and yet you place a minimum value on it when you try to sell it. Which is it? Valueless or valuable? That's what I was trying (and am still trying) to understand.

If it's worthless to you, then you have the option to sell it at whatever price you can get - because it is not worthless to a potential buyer. And if it's valuable to you, then please stop confusing the issue by saying it isn't and complaining about it.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by mikey1 on 2011-06-29 07:40:46

The thing that gets me is you don't even understand what I said. The point of my post was not to complain I can't sell it. The fact I can't sell it is merely illustrative of my point. The point being, (this is where you pay attention) NOBODY WANTS IT. Nobody wants it. Nobody wants it. Sure, if I put in for 50 bucks somebody might buy it. The same way my wife buys crap at a garage sale because it's too cheap to pass up. But nobody is saying to themselves, gee, I'd sure like to have me one of them Flextones.

My post to Wardick required no response. The experts, hey, that's what they're paid to do. But you, it's just brown nosed pandering. You focus on the one thing you can twist. Like my using the term, "my boy", a common term in literature. You somehow twisted that into what, a racial slur? Is that what you were going for?

I take issue with a lot of the things you post but I rarely respond. I usually just chuckle. You amuse me. And I'm serious, you'll get that expert status. Unless my kicking up all this ruckus has jinxed your chances. That would be a shame wouldn't it

And thanks for the sympathy. It'll go nicely with my tea.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Mr_Arkadin on 2011-06-29 08:16:14

mikey1 wrote:

The thing that gets me is you don't even understand what I said. The point of my post was not to complain I can't sell it. The fact I can't sell it is merely illustrative of my point. The point being, (this is where you pay attention) NOBODY WANTS IT. Nobody wants it. Nobody wants it. Sure, if I put in for 50 bucks somebody might buy it. The same way my wife buys crap at a garage sale because it's too cheap to pass up. But nobody is saying to themselves, gee, I'd sure like to have me one of them Flextones.

My post to Wardick required no response. The experts, hey, that's what they're paid to do. But you, it's just brown nosed pandering. You focus on the one thing you can twist. Like my using the term, "my boy", a common term in literature. You somehow twisted that into what, a racial slur? Is that what you were going for?

I take issue with a lot of the things you post but I rarely respond. I usually just chuckle. You amuse me. And I'm serious, you'll get that expert status. Unless my kicking up all this ruckus has jinxed your chances. That would be a shame wouldn't it

So are you really telling me you couldn't just give this stuff to a kid just starting out on guitar and he wouldn't love it? I had a Tascam 4-track which cost £600 back in 1984. By the mid-'90s you can imagine the value of such a thing, so I gave it away to some kid just starting out and introduced him to the world of recording and overdubs. No doubt he probably went the computer route shortly after but at least it got him started. Oh, and I didn't go on the Tascam forums and b1tch about how I couldn't resell my 4-track. It did what it did when I needed it to, it's resale value didn't magically devalue its worth to me. No doubt you'll tell me I've missed the point again.

Most tech gear devalues, unless you're very cunning on what you buy. Even then fashion rather than actual musical value can dictate value. Gone on, give to a kid or a charity shop, you might even feel good about yourself.

The experts do not get paid to do anything, so again you're the one with slurs trying to twist it around. The 'brown nose' jibe I won't dignify with a response. Oh, and for the record I'm white so no, that's not why I took offence. Your use of "my boy" was intentionally derogatory and nothing to do with literature. Please.

And yes you amuse me too. Why anyone would spend so much time on a board devoted to kit they hate, do not use and cannot even give away I can't fathom. And don't fret about my status, I won't be an expert any time soon as I think Line 6 prefer people who are a little more neutral than I'm prepared to be.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by amgamg on 2011-06-29 08:18:14

Oh look...I found these "loose" on the floor...maybe some of you can use some...maybe a couple Sorry couldnt resist...Cya!

img199_1screws.jpg



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by mikey1 on 2011-06-29 08:41:37

Silver and I had a mild exchange. A little sarcasm at each others expense. You brought the heavy artillary. He didn't need defending. Our exchange was none of your business. But that's not true is it? It is your business. Between you and Mr Snarkadin, you've attempted to assasinate my character. I'm a venting, penny pinching doooshbag to be pitied. Is that about right? I'm unconcerned. My feelings aren't the least bit hurt and I believe the clever reader understands the narrative so far.

I didn't come here looking for a fight. You guys started it. And you got nasty quickly. I believe it's because that is your function. While the experts may help people, they spend a lot of time putting down the naysayers. Like the white blood cells of the forum. And if you can't beat 'em, you go personal. You attempt to invalidate their view. And you guys will use anything. Their post count, grammar, whatever is handy.

I think you were all hand picked by a very clever company. Not only for your abilities to do this sort of work, but also for your inability to see behind the curtain at what's really going on. Karl and Space were picked because of their expertise and experience, and as an exception to make the argument it's not all fanboys. It's actually brilliant. You get the added benefit of the wannabees fighting the good fight for free. They don't need to delete posts. They have you.

While Line 6 did not become the company I'd hoped they would, I don't hate them. I don't come here to bash Line 6. I come here for the same reason most people frequent a forum. I'm bored. I come here to chat. I come here because you guys say the darndest things. I don't take any of this seriously and neither should you. 



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by mikey1 on 2011-06-29 09:03:41

I don't have a problem with anything you said. I got the joke. I wasn't offended. Even dooooshbag doesn't offend me.

We can argue semantics all day. Yes, I place a monetary value my Line 6 gear. Based on some criteria. I don't need to sell it. I'd like to get x amount of dollars for it. At some point, I might as well keep it. If I can only get 50 bucks for my Pod Pro, I'll keep it. I paid a lot of money for it, I had to have it repaired, it would be an 800 dollar loss at that price. Call me what you will, but I'd rather just keep it. When I said the value is nil, of course, I'm talking about the market. My point was that, the Line 6 brand has taken such a hit in recent years that it has little perceived value in the marketplace. Perhpas nil wasn't the right word. Practically worthless might have been a better term. And, again, I'm not I'm not saying the gear itself is worthless. Please understand that. I'm saying the general musicians marketplace isn't interested in Line 6 gear.

I buy and sell a lot of gear. I can't begin to tell you how unusual it is to receive no response at all.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by TheRealZap on 2011-06-29 09:14:12

yes i always carry heavy artillery....

like i said i was just calling out a comment i felt was uncalled for....

that was it for me....

you apparently got the message.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by mikey1 on 2011-06-29 09:57:37

" Oh, and I didn't go on the Tascam forums and b1tch about how I couldn't resell my 4-track. It did what it did when I needed it to, it's resale value didn't magically devalue its worth to me. No doubt you'll tell me I've missed the point again."

Yes. You missed the point. Again. I know, I'm flabbergasted too. I'll just copy and paste it for you.

" The point of my post was not to complain I can't sell it. The fact I can't sell it is merely illustrative of my point. The point being, (this is where you pay attention) NOBODY WANTS IT.Nobody wants it. Nobody wants it."

Seems pretty clear to me. I even pointed out the salient point in parenthesis. So yea, you missed it. Nevermind there was no Tascam forum in the mid '90's. Just sayin......

It's great you gave away your Tascam. Honestly. I applaud that. Kudos to you. And I suppose I could do that. And maybe when it's 10 years old and completely obsolete I will. Who knows?



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Mr_Arkadin on 2011-06-29 11:25:12

Nope, still not getting it. Me and my thick skull. Why is the fact that "Nobody wants it" such a problem to you. That is what I am not getting. Nobody wants it at the price you set, yet you'd rather have it around doing nothing out of principle? There's plenty of tech gear that takes a hit, not just Line 6. I often buy this devalued stuff because it's still good kit, recently I got a Roland SC-880 originally £699 for £60, a Roland RE-3 originally £800 I got for £125 etc. That kit is no less useful than when it was made, it's just people's perception of old digital must be crap, plus the shift to software solutions that has caused this. If you deal in vintage guitars, synths and valve amps you'll get a different story, but again the values are dictated by perception/fashion etc. rather than actual value in a lot of cases. Someone will take it off you, but maybe not at the price you'd like.

I suppose the reason I cannot understand you is this:

"Yes, I place a monetary value my Line 6 gear. Based on some criteria. I  don't need to sell it. I'd like to get x amount of dollars for it."

and

"I paid a lot of money for it, I had to have it repaired, it would be an 800 dollar loss at that price."

which is as opposite a viewpoint to me as you could get. My criteria for buying a piece of kit is will it fulfil my needs and will it do it at a price I think is fair. Not will I lose money on this in 5-10 years' time. At some point I assume your thought process on buying Line 6 was, "This sounds good, that's a fair price, I'll buy it" rather than, "This sounds shite, but I bet I can make some money on it in a few years' time selling it some plonker who doesn't know better".

We both know what you need to be buying to make a decent return and it isn't most digital kit - it just doesn't age well in people's perception (but in my view is still very usable in a lot of cases). I still don't understand the idea of 'taking a loss' on gear that you got use out of.

"Nevermind there was no Tascam forum in the mid '90's. Just sayin......"

Yes I realised that, I was just making a point that I have a life and it doesn't include wasting time with things I no longer like/own/have a use for etc. I suppose for the analogy to be chronologically accurate I should have said I didn't spend my time writing letters to the MD of Tascam asking for my money back because computers had devalued PortaStudios.

A cursory glance at eBay shows a Pod Pro with FloorBoard going for £250 and a Pod Pro on its own for £150:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Line-6-Pod-Pro-and-Floor-Pedal-Control-Board-Guitar-/140570309177?pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories&hash=item20baa4b239

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LINE-6-POD-PRO-/150618477048?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Outboards_Effects_MJ&hash=item23118f91f8

Sellinglocally always involves it being cheaper, there's one on gumtree for £140. Wouldn't that bit of cash be better than a doorstop?



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Polaris20 on 2011-06-29 11:30:03

Can we knock all this crap off? It's got absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic by now, and it's just a bullshit back and forth Internet argument that does NO ONE any good. Enough is enough already. Jeez.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Mr_Arkadin on 2011-06-29 11:35:01

Polaris20 wrote:

Enough is enough already. Jeez.

Yup, you're right, no more from me.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by mikey1 on 2011-06-29 12:27:06

Aw, come on! I'm just getting warmed up! It's not like there's anything else going on in the forum.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by chrishansen99 on 2011-07-09 23:52:37

Line6 has an obvious opportunity here - c'mon guys - CAPITALIZE !

While Fractal's equipment is great, it's not the only thing on the market, and as everyone knows, it's a lot harder to stay on top than to challenge the leader. Line6 had the lead and blew it with a weakly positioned product that was (imo) just a re-packaging of the existing POD + expansions product line in a new carriage. Very disappointing.

I still use my X3 Live almost exclusviely for around-home noodling, AND for 95%+ of scratch track recording. Mic'ing is a PITA, and I go direct in USB and DAW and direct out to Genelecs. i've spent 100's of hours dialing in my patches to just where I like them, and this is always my grab 'n go solution.

Where Line6 can really excel is in QA, market presence, forums and patch modelling maturity, and support. Most of all - PRODUCT AVAILABILITY. Ironically all of the things that Fractal is really challenged at. I've tried (unsuccessfully) to buy an AxeFx ultra for going on 2+ years now. They can have the best product in the world, but if you can't get one, who cares?

The sweet spot for amp modellers is the $1000 price point.  - but needs to have all of the bells and whistles that Line6 established as standards with its original POD offerings (dual channel, dual effects chains, direct out, yada-yada).

11-Rack nailed it in terms of pricing and DAW integration, but fell short with amp modeller and effects quality and missed the boat entirely on core standards like dual-channel, stereo, etc., and in the end their product seemed like it was developed to sell more copies of their DAW than it was for serious semi-prosumers and recording junkies. Plus I had to buy an RTAS adapter from fXpansion to boot, which pissed me off - and the DAW SE version sucked balls. I already have hundereds of hours invested in my DAW, so that wasn't going to happen either.

Line6 - listen up: If you want to nail it, re-do the POD X3 Pro, make it look like an 11Rack and get more comptetive in the audio quality department like Fractal while maintaining your normal product features and competitive advantages in this line. The HD500 looks like a re-branded X3 Live/Pro, but isn't worth the additional bucks to justify the price, and as an existing customer there's nothing for me to aspire to in your product lineup that would be compellig enough for me to part with another $500-$1000 or more for what amounts to the same product.

Midi board switching integration would be a great diversification, and an area where you could differentiate easily.

Maybe add in a wireless integration offering to boot?

- you get my point. You're almost there. Stay the course. You have so many advantages that you're letting others capitalize upon. Step up and compete. People will follow, but make sure you know who your target audience is at that price point. It's not the same people who baought your X3 Live/Pro - most of them have graduated and are looking for more powerful and integrated solutions.

Did I mention that I play my X3 Live more than any other amp I own? -probably more like 3:1 or 4:1, actually.

-Chris



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2011-07-10 10:43:29

chrishansen99 wrote:

Line6 had the lead and blew it with a weakly positioned product that was (imo) just a re-packaging of the existing POD + expansions product line in a new carriage. Very disappointing.

It's definitely not a re-packaging job.  Those amp models were, I can attest, rebuilt from the ground up.  Sure, the effects are straight from the M series, but that's nothing but good in my estimation.  The unit is still in its infancy.  Much like the Axe-Fx was when it was released.

11-Rack nailed it in terms of pricing and DAW integration,

Price, yes.  DAW integration...depends.   If your DAW is Pro Tools, then yes, they nailed the DAW integration.    Otherwise, forget about it.  And as far as the price goes, I spent a good $1000 for the 11 with the expansion pack.  That's steep for a unit with so many blatant shortcomings.

but fell short with amp modeller and effects quality and missed the boat entirely on core standards like dual-channel, stereo, etc.

Let me tell you where else they fell short:  quality A/D converters on the front end.  They had to severely limit the input gain so they wouldn't clip the front end A/D converter and as a result the noise floor is way too high on that unit.  Their noise gate is awful too.  I ended up just selling mine outright to get rid of it because it was useless to me for live playing and that's pretty much all I do these days.  I will say that their amp, cab, and mic models were fantastic, though.  The analog and tape delays, as well as the reverb were all good, but the rest of the effects just sucked.  Horrible chorus, flanger, phaser...all of them sounded like a univibe on roids.  The gain stomps were just lacking too.  But their plexi, soldano, and vox models...amazing.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by pigwalk on 2011-07-12 12:14:38

Line 6 totally dropped the ball by focusing on tubing up their lower end models (Spider Valve REALLY?) instead of taking the tech that got them here, the modelling, up a notch.  I still use Line 6, because of the value on the used market.  HD147 and Vetta's for around and under 500 is a great deal.  A fancy Spider with a tube section for 800 or whatever new is stupid and totally took them out of the game.  My next amp will be a Axe-FX, unless L6 decides to get off their rear ends and finally release a HD500 rock or a Vetta HD.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by phil_m on 2011-07-12 13:06:36

If the game you're talking about is modeling amps, it seems that they're beating, if not dominating, the competition in that game. Line 6 isn't primarily designing gear for the corksniffer crowd (although, I think the DT-50 is a really great sounding amp). The tube power section on the Spider Valves isn't just a gimmick, either. I think they're totally passable tube amps.

As far as your "next amp being an Axe-FX", I hope you're prepared to invest in something to actually amplify the Axe-FX in a live situation.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by daddyopapa on 2011-07-13 18:34:15

First post. Hi all.

I just picked up an HD 300 to get my feet wet with modeling. I see how it compares to my tube amps and stomp boxes. Before I spent the $$$, I spent a lot of time analyzing which unit to get. Sure the Fractal stuff is cool, but I just wasn't prepared to drop $2200 for an AxeFX II (if you get the discount), then another $800 for the MIDI controller, $50 for an expression pedal, and the anywhere from $300 for a Mackie Th12 FRFR up to over $1600 for a tube power amp and speaker cabs. Don't forget the rack case. So you are in for anything from $4K to $5500 and up.That's serious bread in today's economy. And I'm convinced that either Line 6 or Digitech (updated GSP1101?) will come up with a powerful improved product within 2 years that will will meet Fractal head-on and be marketed at a reasonable price point. Then you'll be stuck with a $4k AxeFx worth $500. In the mean time, I'll learn on my HD 300 and when I sell it for something better, I may be out $150 tops.

At least that's my theory and I'm stickin to it.

Peace

Ray



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by pigwalk on 2011-07-14 21:57:28

This 4000-5000 fud for a AxeFx is insane.  Used standards go for 1000-1600.  Grab a used Rocktron Velcocity 300 for around 300.  Keep using that Line 6 modeling cab (or CL80 loaded avatar in my case).  Any midi footswitch for channel switching (40-100).  Lets say another 100-300 for a rack and a furman and you're set.  If you're a serious gigging musician that's par for course.  It's what you early adopters paid for a Vetta setup back in the day.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by phil_m on 2011-07-15 06:38:27

You're still not counting anything in that cost to actually amplify the Axe-FX. If you're OK with going direct, you're costs might be accurate, but if not, you're looking at something in the way of a power amp and cab.

I don't care what anyone wants to play through. There's enough diversity in the marketplace that anyone can find something that is at least passable in their price range, and honestly even the least expensive options available today offer a lot more than many of the most expensive options like ten years ago. A lot of companies are making a lot of good products at the moment. It really comes down to finding something you're comfortable using. If people are comfortable with the Axe-FX and like what it gives them for the price, that's great. I, for one, am not, and I don't really ever see myself going down the road of using rack-mounted gear like that. I also think that the whole issue of having to get a programmable MIDI board that needs to be setup for the Axe is something that can potentially scare a lot of guitarists away. Not everyone who plays guitar is a technophile. I know many guitarists for who even the complexity of an HD300 is about at their threshold.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by pigwalk on 2011-07-15 07:42:30

The Rocktron Velocity is a 300w power amp and I'm speaking of re-using the cab that I've been using on Vetta's for years.  And currently running a HD147 through!  I'm more than content with my HD147 right now, and I didn't like the idea of going with a rack setup either.  Until my 2nd Vetta 1 in 6 years died 2 weeks ago and one of the bands let me use their AxeFX that evening.  I was 100% sold.  I've been a long time Vetta user, and this was the first amp that I found that made me consider moving on.

Line 6 hit a very specific group of players with the Vetta's years ago.  People willing to dish out the money for the biggest and best available at the moment, with all the bells and whistles available to make some great tones.  And it's just left us behind since then.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by phil_m on 2011-07-15 07:57:36

Well, I think the DT-50 combined with an HD500 offers a pretty flexible rig, but, yeah it's not quite the complexity of the Vetta, and it's nowhere near the complexity of the Axe FX. I'm just not convinced that the added complexity equates to a better overall tone, or maybe more importantly, a better overall playing experience - at least for me personally. If people are willing to invest the time and effort in programming an Axe-FX based rig, that's great.

I just think that the if you were to plot a graph with demand on the x-axis and complexity on the y-axis, you'd probably end up with something that looks very close to the typical normal or bell curve curve. At the one end, you have the simplest of rigs - a guitar and an amp. There are probably a relatively small amount of players who just want that. At the other end you have the complex rigs like the Axe-FX with MIDI controllers or whatnot. There's probably a relatively small amount of people who want that. In the biggest part of the curve are people looking for something that's flexible, moderately complex, but doesn't necessarily have all the bells and whistles. So I think that's why companies like Line 6 develop the biggest part of their product lines for things that fall short of what people who are tweakaholics want. The modeling game is different now than it was when the Vetta was released. It's much more mainstream now, so Line 6 is primarily competing against much larger companies - not companies like Fractal.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by pigwalk on 2011-07-15 08:37:03

For the mainstream market I'd agree 100%.  The bedroom player, the beginner learning or the kid in his first band is going to gravitate towards a Spider or POD setup.  And I'm sure it's making them bank!  Same way First Act is making a killing selling 100 dollar guitars at Wal-Mart.  But First Act also has their custom shop for people that want a top notch guitar for a few bucks.  Line 6 has most definitely left the top end of the market to Fractal big time.  Which is too bad, because the HD500 seems like a killer piece of gear, but they need a new Vetta.  A flagship that can run head to head with the Fractal gear.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by phil_m on 2011-07-15 09:00:14

They're definitely in there with Fender, Vox, Boss, EHX, etc. Plenty of pros and gigging musicians use Line 6 stuff. They aren't relegated simply to bedroom players. I actually think the DT-50/HD500 is a pretty uniquw move on Line 6's part. They're not really anyone else doing the modular thing at the moment. I just think that era of playing wanting a true all-in-one super amp like the Vetta has passed. There's not really anyone making that sort of thing at the moment.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by pigwalk on 2011-07-15 09:13:17

Fractal does



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by phil_m on 2011-07-15 09:15:41

Well, the Axe-FX is just a modeling preamp. You would still need a power amp and cab. It's not a true all-in-one solution as in it will in and of itself replace a tradional guitar/amp/pedalboard rig.



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2011-07-15 09:53:05

pigwalk wrote:

Fractal does

If you're referring the the Fractal/Atomic combination, that's not even close to the same thing.  The Atomic FR series is a bunch of full range monitoring solutions powered by tubes.  Why tubes?  Because it's the cheapest way to make a quality linear power amp.  You're not getting "tube goodness" from that power section.  And there's no integration between Axe-Fx and Atomic FR.

The DT50 is a stand alone guitar amp with a real GUITAR tube power section.  And not only that, it dynamically reconfigures itself to one of 4 different topologies for different flavors and feels.  Plug in the POD HD and you have digital control fom the POD controlling the DT50 power section.  And you have digital audio going from the POD to the DT50.  Phil is right in stating that nobody else out there is doing this right now.

Glad you enjoyed the Axe-Fx.  I got quickly fed up with the complexity and chasing the tone with that machine.  It just wasn't as plug and play as a good amp and pedals, and I never got to where I felt great about the tone in a live setting.  But hey, if it works for you, then that's cool. 



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by pigwalk on 2011-07-15 10:06:53

If you didn't like the AxeFX's complexity then you probably hated the Vetta as well.  A AxeFX with a power section gives you all the same capabilities that a Vetta head would.  Just better sounding, and much easier to dial in a good tone.  I was able to dial in a killer crunch during sound check when I got to use one.  Rarely could I get something sounding that well in a Vetta that quick.  And that's with 6 years of ownership experience.  It's also much more expensive though, that's why I don't own one.  Currently running a HD147, can't beat it for 450, loving the way it sounds and it's so easy to dial it in and make it growl.  I do want to eventually get back to something that has Vetta like capabilities (AxeFX or maybe a Pod HD Pro if they rack'em) but in the meanwhile no complaints with the HD147.  

The DT50 controlled by the Pod HD footswitch sounds interesting.  But for the money I'd much rather get something else.  Also have a habit of destroying gear, footswitches, guitars, I'd rather have the brains of my rig far behind me than on stage with me.  Thanks god the Shortboards are built like tanks!



Re: You knew this was coming - AXE-FX-II
by conar2000 on 2012-12-20 22:11:03

Maybe if Fractal Audio made a version of the Axe FX with a built in power amp, I'd be more than sold. Don't get me wrong I love my Vetta II, but it's been awhile and the Axe FX just keeps looking better and better. The only thing keeping me from grabbing one is that outrageous price. Till then my Vetta should keep me satisfied. But I'd really like to see Line 6 do something similar to the Vetta in the future. Or atleast an update.




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