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Channel Switching Latency Issue
by ryanlewis1 on 2011-06-08 10:22:04

I just purchased a Spider IV HD150 head to replace my Spider III (which is having weird issues of its own now) and immediately I noticed that it has a noticeable lag between when you hit the channel button and when the amp actually switches channels. Is it just me, or does every Spider IV owner have this issue? The Spider III never had any latency problems at all, but this makes live performance sound sloppy, like I'm coming in late and throwing off the groove.

Perhaps this issue was solved with a firmware update? I know it's possible to update the firmware on the amp, but only with the FBV mkII. I've had the FBV Shortboard for years now and I'm not too interested in dropping another couple hundred bucks on a pedal with one more button on it if it won't allow me to solve this latency issue.

Does anyone know a solution? It would be MUCH appreciated! Thanks!



RE: Channel Switching Latency Issue
by Line6david on 2011-06-09 11:01:38

Hi,

Have you tried installing the latest flash memory in the amp?

http://line6.com/software/

http://line6.com/community/docs/DOC-1584

Thanks,

David

Line 6 Customer Support



Re: RE: Channel Switching Latency Issue
by ryanlewis1 on 2011-06-10 11:32:43

David,

I have not tried updating the amp's firmware, as I do not own an FBV mk.II pedal. I have the FBV Shortboard (the older one, no USB port) and I don't really want to spend $200 on a pedal that does 95% of the same things my current one does. So the only solution to updating the firmware is to spend $200 on a new pedal? That's a pretty expensive software upgrade, and if it won't fix the amp, then I'm not sure I want to invest in it. Though I might be able to buy the pedal, update the amp, and return the pedal...

Has Line 6 ever encountered this issue before? If so, was there ever a solution found or is the Spider IV just a 'slower' amplifier than the older Spider III?

Thanks,

Ryan



RE: Channel Switching Latency Issue
by Line6Don on 2011-06-13 11:52:50

Hey ryanlewis1,

The most common solution to this issue is as David mentioned above, is reinstalling the latest flash memory of the amp. You can check your flash memory version by: Watching the LED screen as it boots up, it should tell you what version it is running. Another way to access the current version number is to press the presets knob, and use the right navigation key to scroll to the menu labeled "SETUP", using the up and down navigation keys, you can scroll through the parameters till it displays what version you are running.

The most current version of the flash memory is version 2.00. Please check this to see if it is necessary to update your flash memory.



Re: RE: Channel Switching Latency Issue
by ryanlewis1 on 2011-06-16 09:57:06

I'll buy a Mk.II FBV this week and update the firmware (currently 1.04 I believe) and post any results I have. Thank you for the help so far!



RE: Channel Switching Latency Issue
by Line6Don on 2011-06-17 14:00:26

Hey ryanlewis1,

You are very welcome. Please post a new thread if you have any questions or issues with the new FBV MKII.



Re: RE: Channel Switching Latency Issue
by r-lewis89 on 2011-06-19 21:44:44

I purchased the FBV MkII and updated the firmware on the Spider IV to the current v 2.00. This still hasn't solved the latency that occurs when switching between channels on the amplifier. Does every Spider IV amplifier have channel switching latency issues or is this an isolated problem?



Re: RE: Channel Switching Latency Issue
by Nick_Mattocks on 2011-06-19 23:18:49

I have a Spider III 150 combo, a Spider IV 150 combo and a MkI Spider Valve 112 and MkII Spider Valve 212

Switching Latency has never been an issue for me with any of these amps.

I know that some Spider Valve MkII users have reported switching latency issues (the Spider IV uses a similar DSP section to the SV MkII)

After updating your amp's firmware, did you also perform a factory reset?

When you refer to latency, have you measured the switching times in any way, and are those times consistent regardless of the presets involved?  What sort of times are we talking about here? <20ms, >50ms, >500ms, 1s etc...?   You can measure the latency by recording a clip and looking at the length of the gap caused by switching in the resultant Wave file image.

How does this latency present itself?  ie do you stop playing before switching a preset or do you let notes/chords ring through the patch change and notice a gap?

Due to the nature of different amp model, FX models and settings that need to be loaded, there is always switching latency.  There is switching latency with analog amps and FX.  It really comes down to how long that latency actually is and whether it is noticeable.  I would not expect the switching latency times to be the same for every patch that you load because the amp model and FX will be different.

I don't know how the Channel Volume setting is being stored with your specific presets in terms of level.  I would recommend like the Spider Valve MkII that you keep the channel volume settings at around 50% in all your presets to avoid clicks and pops and also possibly reduce or avoid any latency in switching.

Nick



Re: RE: Channel Switching Latency Issue
by ryanlewis1 on 2011-06-20 12:53:53

Nick,

After reading your post I tried turning the channel volumes all down to ~50%, they were all at nearly 100% previously. That did actually reduce the latency, but it was still noticeable. Then I performed the factory reset, which may have reduced the latency just slightly, but it's still noticeable. After those two fixes, we're talking only about 30ms of latency, and it is most noticeable when already on a channel and then pushing the same channel button (the sound cuts out).

The length of latency is consistent, I can switch from a simple clean channel with no effects whatsoever to a heavily distorted channel with user-programmed pitch shifting, chorus, delay, and reverb with a ~30ms latency, and then back to the clean channel with the same latency time.

If I do stop playing before I switch the channel, the latency is not noticeable as there is no sound coming out of the speaker to hear the cut, but if I do play a solid chord and let it ring through the channel switch, you can definitely hear the sound cut out.

As I said, after turning channel volume down and factory resetting, the latency is reduced (used to be about 60ms) but is still noticeable. I could probably get used to managing it during shows and such, but it's a pain when it doesn't switch exactly when you stomp the pedal (it also has the same latency when switching channels using the buttons on the amp, so it's not just the footswitch). The main reason this frustrates me is that my Spider III amp had no noticeable latency whatsoever. I could even play a chord, let it ring, push the button for the channel I was already on, and there would be no cut or pause in sound at all. This is not the case with the Spider IV.

Do any of your Line 6 amps demonstrate a noticeable cut in sound if you let a chord ring through a channel switch?

Thank you,

Ryan



RE: Channel Switching Latency Issue
by Line6Hugo on 2011-06-21 09:12:46

The latency you are experiencing is the nature of the amp. We cannot compare this to the Spider III as that amp did not have nearly as many complex computations as the Spider IV series does. I recommend submitting a feature request at the following link to submit your product feedback:

http://line6.com/company/contact/productfeedback/

Regards,

Line6Hugo



Re: RE: Channel Switching Latency Issue
by ryanlewis1 on 2011-06-22 15:04:35

Hugo,

Well thank you for explaining that bit to me. I went ahead and left feedback, hopefully Line 6 will do something about it because at this point I'm ready to return the amp and pedal in favor of a different company's product in order to preserve my live sound. I'm disappointed because years ago I switched from a Behringer amplifier that had channel switching latency to Line 6 because it switched channels seamlessly. Now it seems Line 6 has allowed their amplifiers to be almost unusable in live performance in favor of packing them to the brim with effects and amp models. The amps are great, I just wish Line 6 wouldn't compromise playability by focusing too much on the modeling.



RE: Channel Switching Latency Issue
by Line6Don on 2011-06-23 09:28:20

Hey ryanlewis1,

We appreciate your concern and thank you very much for submitting your product feedback. Our products are driven by customer suggestions and feedback, so thanks again for taking the time to contribute your ideas.



Re: Channel Switching Latency Issue
by elstringsio on 2011-10-16 22:36:19

Hi guys,

I have read this entire stream and wanted to chime in because I use a Spider II right now and have grown to depend on it as my main amp for practice, live and recording.  I am so happy with it and have used it to create the sound of my songs now on itunes, so you can understand that I am invested in this.  Last weekend I wanted to upgrade my rig to the Mk II spider valve because I really love the sounds and it's definitely a step up for me.  So I purchased the 212 and brought it home. I thought I was gonna be all set...  massive power, killer tones, tubes, all the effects I need - programmed the way I want, speaker outs to my stack, I could go on..

However, I cannot use this piece of equipment with the "drop-outs" that occur between patch selections when I use the shortboard to switch them.  For a moment I thought it was my fault, maybe my settings were off.  But after 4 hours of tweaking, I sadly gave up and returned the amp to the store.  I am bummed and will be forced to continue on with my Spider II.  I will however wait for the next product release in the hope that this issue is resolved.  I never write stuff like this but as I said, I am invested now.  Thanks for allowing my feedback.



Re: Channel Switching Latency Issue
by rscriz84 on 2012-01-20 22:22:01

I'm in the same boat. What do Line 6 users have to do to get this problem fixed?

"The latency you are experiencing is the nature of the amp.  We cannot compare this to the Spider III as that amp did not have nearly as many complex computations as the Spider IV series does.  I recommend submitting a feature request at the following link to submit your product feedback:"

That seems like a meaningless response. The response I'm looking for is "The latency issue is being worked out and an update should be available soon. We apologize for the issue you are having"




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