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JTV89 acoustic models with a DT25 amp
by Martinyp on 2011-10-14 12:16:28

I have a JTV-89 guitar connected to a POD HD500 which is connected to my DT25 amp. Everything is connected up digitally as per Line 6 documentation. i.e DVI cable from guitar to HD500 and L6 link from HD500 to amp. Everything works great apart from when I want to use any of the acoustic models on the guitar.

From many hours of searching online it seems the consensus is not to use any amp models when trying to use a Variax acoustic modelled sound and to just rely on a few effects to fine tune the amplified sound. (This makes sense) I have downloaded alot of HD500 presets designed for JTV acoustic models all of which have no amp selected but they all sound awful. In fact they sound as if the speaker has blown.

It seems that the DT25 is seeing that there is no amp model information coming down the L6 link cable from the HD500 and therefore defaulting to one of its onboard amp channels which destroys the acoustic sound.

How can I set up my DT25 to allow for receiving an HD500 preset (which has no amp model selected) across the L6 link cable?

I hope this all makes sense.



Re: JTV89 acoustic models with a DT25 amp
by spaceatl on 2011-10-14 15:06:04

Just thinking a little out of the box...There are a couple of native problems using a guitar amp for an acoustic anyway...lack of a tweeter, not quite flat...coloration...

I tend to think a second amp is really the way to do it...You could use the FX loop to accomplish this and handle the switching...so the patch would have perhaps an EQ, COMP...maybe some verb...kinda normal chain you would use with no amp model...place the FX Loop at the end of the chain and enable it...set it to stomp level...plug the FX Send into the input of a little acoustic amplifier, powered wedge, etc....

Make sure you set the mix of the loop to 100%...Since there is nothing is the return, this should mute the DT25 when this patch is called up...In a live situation you could just put a direct box on the FX Loop send (line level for this situation) and have the acousitc patches use the PA...Anyway, that is how I would go about it...Acoustics through guitar amps just never quite get there...



Re: JTV89 acoustic models with a DT25 amp
by Nick_Mattocks on 2011-10-14 15:40:21

+1 to Space

I've had a DT-50 212 for over a year and just received my DT25 head and cab yesterday.  I have had a JTV-59 since June and the 89 since August.  Just playing about with my existing HD500 presets for the JTV yesterday and today, the JTV acoustic tones weren't at all bad, but the FX Loop on the HD500 as a means of getting a clean signal out direct to PA or acoustic guitar amp is a trick that works well.



Re: JTV89 acoustic models with a DT25 amp
by spaceatl on 2011-10-14 16:30:37

Isn't just the coolest little stack ever...really a great head they have made...I really dig the EL84 vibe...I really dig the weight too...I find my mine to be have just enough power at rehearsals...I am going to drop a 4 ohm Jenson Neo 100 in it at some point...should give me about +3 db of headroom with the nudge up in SPL too...I have a Madison 16 ohm in there now running the 3x12 deal on a 212 cab...It rips...



Re: JTV89 acoustic models with a DT25 amp
by Nick_Mattocks on 2011-10-15 05:17:31

spaceatl wrote:

Isn't just the coolest little stack ever...really a great head they have made...I really dig the EL84 vibe...I really dig the weight too...I find my mine to be have just enough power at rehearsals...I am going to drop a 4 ohm Jenson Neo 100 in it at some point...should give me about +3 db of headroom with the nudge up in SPL too...I have a Madison 16 ohm in there now running the 3x12 deal on a 212 cab...It rips...

Oh yes.  I totally agree with that.    The Spider Valve 112 amps are neat little packages and provide great tone, but they are a bit heavier to carry and slightly more awkward due to their weight (side handles might be better).  Carring a SV 112 in one hit is a bit more awakward than carrying this head and cab separately so that's a bonus for my back LOL.

My earliest amps were EL84 based but back then they weren't even guitar amps for me LOL - they were simply the back end of an old valve radio with pre-amps and treble boosters 'n' stuff that I made myself to use with me cheapo Woolworths guitar back when I was 16 - usually using a couple of BC108 transistors at the core of each effect - well perhaps 'effect' is a bit of an exaggeration   - however yes the EL84 vibe is definitely there and it takes me back a bit.

Good call on the speaker swap - I might look into that too, but I have to say I do like the sound of the cab as-is - and i could put a V30 in there of course

I still fancy the idea of a second little rig which will definitely provide the necessary volume if a single amp/cab is a little bit lacking as well as giving me options for stereo from the back line - but having only had it for two days I haven't tried it alongside our drummer 'John Bonham II' yet however I suspect certainly for rehearsal it will have enough welly as it stands anyway.  If it does need a bit of assistance I can always DI into the PA for a touch more level, or just pair it up in a bit of a mismatched arrangement with the DT-50 or the Marshall JVM for now

At some point soon I will try mine with the Line 6 cab plus one of my Marshall 1922 2x12s using the mono 8ohm socket as that should spread the air moving capability a bit more as well as providing a bit of tonal variation or I could even just go for using the head with the Marshall cab with its standard offering of Celestion G12T75 speakers - I need to see what that sounds like anyway for reference. 

But yes - it's all goodness coming from the DT-25 and it's very cool that the DI out works in low power mode without Standby needing to be switched on, plus the switching between NFL topologies is MUCH quieter than with the DT-50 - there is a still a click, but it doesn't thump at all as it sometimes can on the DT-50

You're not the only person to tell me that this rig rips.  I had two other people say exactly that before I ordered it last Monday - two people who's opininions I also trust as well as yours    Very pleased so far. 

Nick



Re: JTV89 acoustic models with a DT25 amp
by Martinyp on 2011-10-15 11:50:14

Cheers for that spaceati but since I am without a second amp I guess I am stuck using and tweaking the amp models already in the POD. It would be nice if Line 6 would update the POD with one or two acoustic amp models so that people without multiple amps, a PA system or a home studio setup can get the best tones out of their JTV.



Re: JTV89 acoustic models with a DT25 amp
by BucF16 on 2011-10-26 14:13:14

Or if they had the same thing the Vetta had...When using an acoustic amp with the VX, while the amp itself didn't sound so great with an acoustic, the DO's sent a very good acoustic sound to the board.



Re: JTV89 acoustic models with a DT25 amp
by andystrat on 2011-12-01 22:35:46

I have some reasonably nice acoustic patches dialed in for the JTV-59 Variax through my HD500, but I also had to contend with guitar synth output as well.  I have two Tech21 power Engine 60's, one 4x10 and the other 1x12 which I use for both my Roland GR-20 and Godin XTSa because the DT25 is not the best amp to run strings and piano through.  I send all my piezo acoustic output from the Godin to the Tech 21's as well.  I tried to join the 2 rigs so I could tap the acoustic models in the HD500, but the difficult to isolate ground loops made it too noisy.  I settled on a Digitech RP255 paired with the Godin, GR-20 and the Tech 21's in Rig B and my JTV-59/HD500/DT25 in Rig A.  It sounds like a lot of gear, but it all fits nicely into my car and my corner of the stage as well.



Re: JTV89 acoustic models with a DT25 amp
by MerlinFL on 2012-05-29 14:01:21

Don't know if this is eeven being watched anymore, but it popped up on the right side of my screen.  So here I am. 

I read all suggestions, and none say what I've been saying for a long time...it is very easy to get an excellent acoustic guitar sound directly from the Dream Rig set up without using any other additional gear.

I posted a two-part demo video on YouTube discussing this very topic because someone else has posted problems that were posted here.  If this problem is still and issue, please check out my posts and YT video demo.



Re: JTV89 acoustic models with a DT25 amp
by aeugle on 2012-06-02 01:26:22

can you please post the link to your you tube demo video



Re: JTV89 acoustic models with a DT25 amp
by MerlinFL on 2012-06-02 22:20:14

Here ya go...

  1. This is me demoing the Vax 700 through my recoding board and the audio was picked up by my camera mic sitting in front of one of my studio monitors.  http://youtu.be/vLc1FToEkwk
  2. This is part 1 where I do more talking than playing explaining what, why, how, etc.  http://youtu.be/2gpJHrGdkEU
  3. Part 2 of 2 more playing less talking and am only disussing the Dream Rig in totality using the 1.81 JTV software. http://youtu.be/SfytZ-2vL9Q

I hope this helps,

Neal

PS - more Dream Rig and non-Dream Rig vid demos coming before the end of June.



Re: JTV89 acoustic models with a DT25 amp
by aeugle on 2012-06-03 00:09:49

Hi Neal,

Interesting videos. I have the same Variax 700 and now a JTV89. (I additionally installe a GR3 for a GR55.

Which guitar do you prefer sound wise. The Variax 700 or the JTV89?

Can you please post the patches you used in the 2 dreamrig videos.

Txs

Thomas



Re: JTV89 acoustic models with a DT25 amp
by MerlinFL on 2012-06-04 14:32:03

My acoustic patches for the POD HD500 start on page 3 of my uploaded patches on CustomTone.com  I also have many Variax patches that I've tweaked to work best with my POD HD500 patches or Vetta combo.

If you can't find them please let me know.

Neal

UPDATE:

Sorry, I forgot all about your question.  I honestly prefer the original acoustic bank on the JTV over all the other acoustic banks previous and since.  DrFunk seems to have watched and listened to one of my demos which was done back in 2009 with the original Variax guitar and my model 700 which I thought were the best of the bunch of Variax guitars offered from the original 500, to 600, 700 then ending with the 300 which I thought was physically a giant turd with great guts.  Perhaps that's why it was made, Line 6 might have had a surplus of Vax guts and didn't wish to spend more money on a guitar they knew was going to be obsolete in sort order?

I have and will always have a fondness for the model 700 Variax.  It's a very nicely made guitar.  It's not too extreme in any way (it will always remind me of a double cutaway PRS in appearance, not how it felt), the neck is very playable, no matter what you might have played previously, and I liked that it had no mag pups on it.  I thought that was one of the "cool" features and I got many questions and compliments on those two guitars I have.  One in trans Red, which is the identical color to the "Wine Red" offered now for the US version of the JTV-89.  Oddly enough - I was told by Line 6 people that many "pro" players would not ever touch the guitar since they thought it looked like a "toy".  I found that remark silly, no matter how accurate it might have been.  Just because it says Line 6 on the headstock and has no pick-ups visible, makes it unique & distinctive - not a toy, but what do I know?

Is it the fault of the people who are looking at the guitars with the Line 6 logo on the headstock having such a low opinion without even trying it, or is it the fault of Line 6 the company for not making certain their guitars are taken seriously?  They even made certain that the Line 6 logo was no where easy to see on these JTV guitars, except on the battery cover.  Why is the company ashamed of it's own brand name??     Give those questions some time in your brain and see what answers come out.

Perhaps the first ones should have been the model 700 as I honestly hate the look of the other models and if it were not for the model 700 I would have not ever bought and tried a Variax guitar brand new for $1,500.00.  The original 500 as well as the 600 & 300 all look to me like giant pick guards with strings and a neck.  The Variax basses were garbage physically, but they did have some pretty excellent modeling.  Ya think we'll ever see basses again?  I wanted a double neck bass/guitar with all Line 6 bass & guitar modeling guts on a Rickenbacker looking body with a Fender Jazz style neck for the bass and the 700 neck would have been fine with me on the guitar side.

I really do like both the JTV-59 & JTV-89.  They are very different in all physical aspects, and of course sound identical in modeling since the guts are nearly identical.  I like the 89 because of the lighter body weight and the wide/flat neck which is very fast.  I've always been a Les Paul player of the 60s style neck versions.  And even though the JTV-59 is literally identical to the PRS single cutaway with a Variax 700 headstock on it, I really like the overall physicality of this model.  I'm not "thrilled" with the "C" style PRS US version necks, but it is very playable, the balance is excellent with the one I have, it's about average LP weight at 9.5 pounds, and took no time to get used to the neck difference from my LPs.

Sonically - I think the models except the "HD" Acoustic bank that was issued with JTV 1.81, then mostly fixed with JTV 1.82 are very similar.  as I wrote first what I think of the models.  I'm not thrilled with the new acoustic models as some are.  Even with the improvements in the 1.82, I still prefer the models contained in the 1.71, but I like the added functionality of the new software.  I suggested several times in several places that Line 6 put the acoustic models from 1.71 into Custom Bank 1 and let us users CHOOSE which acoustic guitars we wish to use.  We could mix & match, or whatever we want or need for the songs we are performing. 

Line 6 was always about user options and choices.  This in my opinion seems to be going away and it's more along the lines of "like it or lump it".  I won't go as far as saying they don't care, but I think some in charge of the balance sheets may have far too much influence these days instead of the creative people.  Just a guess, but that is how it seems to me in my little corner of the world and cyberspace.  Perhaps if enough people send in requests through the proper channels, my suggestion of two banks of acoustic guitar models might become a reality.  I can't imagine it being that hard to swap out a bank of nothing special in the Custom Bank 1 slot with a second 1.71 acoustic guitar model bank.  The players are going to save them all and then pick and choose which they want to keep and which they don't need to make their own custom filled guitars as I've been doing since 2006.

One other thing I feel I should mention because my gut tells me that there is a misconception by the majority of Variax or JTV owners...

**** Any guitar can be saved into any slot in any bank ****

I had to get that out because it seems too many think only the custom banks are for custom altered guitar models.  This is not true.  I've altered every guitar since the first Variax in 2006 except for the Strat model.  I've completely eliminated the Jazzbox bank for more alternately tuned acoustic guitars. I've also done away with a few from the Gretch, Reso, and R-Billy banks for other guitars I created for songs I perform.  I also have saved every factory set from the first as well in case I ever want one of those models back. 

Did ya know if you want to play Rock Lobster by the B-52s you have to tune the E string down to low C and use the Danelectro body with one lipstick pup in the bridge position out of phase with a Rick pup in the mid/neck position.  Yep, ya have to slide the neck pup down almost halfway to near middle position?  And of course I had to make an amp patch on my Vetta to compliment that cheesy guitar sound.  What did the B-52s use?  I have no idea, but I know I've got the sound matched exactly which cracks every guitar player up when I hit it!  I've been working with and learning tons over the years by experimenting with Workbench for the guitars and the Edit programs for the Vetta through the new HD edit programs. 

It's been a 8+ year learning process for me and I'm glad I gave Line 6 gear a try.  I wish more people out there would take the time to learn about this equipment and perhaps Line 6 could think harder about getting the brand name out there like TRUMP has all over everything he has his hands on including a fragrance and clothing line???  Seriously???  He's a guy who puts up or renovates buildings, Casinos, and Golf courses, isn't he??

Message was edited by: Neal Van



Re: JTV89 acoustic models with a DT25 amp
by DrFunk on 2012-06-04 19:40:56

Hi Neal,

I just watched and enjoyed your videos! "Love Alive" was always one of my favorites too...then I got knocked out by Heart's next tune "Dream of the Archer" where Anne Wilson's vocal made it a perfect song. Anyway, I always thought what you said was the 2cd guitar was a mandolin. Whatever, your playing was quite good on the song and I really liked your recording of it too. On your JTV/ Dream Rig demos I thought all the guitars sounded better thru the amps than no amp model, except for the J 200 which was pretty good by itself. The amp models seemed to give some bass and a more balanced tone.Am I right? I was using pretty good speakers to listen.

I'll be downloading some of your patches this week and working with them. I'll try to give you some constructive feedback as well. I was sending acoustics out to PA, but I found that I was getting pretty good tone thru the DT25/ Spider Valve with some presets that I made. You might try my preset called "may use Real Acoustic" I think I used a Blackface Lux Normal Pre-amp model on that one and I may have even used a cabinet like the 1 X 12 from the Div/ 13 on it. The higher frequency tone makes up for no tweeter on the amp. If it doesn't sound quite right to you then try with no cabinet. I always leave alot of EFX on my patches to give people flexability. So feel free to turn any and all of them off too. I am quite enjoying the stereo out of the Dream Rig so I like using some Chorus, Stereo Delay and Reverb on my Acoustics.That one was also set for the JTV D28 model, but it also sounds good when I play my Martin DC Aura thru the system, hence the name of the patch.

By the way, I wrote to Line 6 today requesting an acoustic amp with the next or some upcoming update of firmware. I like you, prefer to use dual amp presets whenever possible. I discovered since I was using Preamp models and often also turning off the cabinet/ mic models to save DSP and get more acoustic realism on these... that I could add lots of EFX to the dual amp pathway patches and then re-install the cabinets and not get a DSP max out message. This is waay cool! I hope Line 6 does not fix this as I might be letting a genie out of the box!!!

I also asked for a compressor with multiple compression ratios like what was on the original Guitarport. when they evolved to Gearbox this was dropped, but it was the best and most useful compressor Line 6 ever made. Compressors with ratios  sound so much better with funk rhythm chords on a strat. I also found it very cool with my Variax Bass (set for Manta green channel) going thru the SWR or Aguilar amp models (for 'slap & pop' tones) So I asked Line 6 if they would also give us those 2 bass amps with their cabinets plus the Ampeg SVT with the 8 X10 cab for classic rock tones for the HD 500/ Pro.

Finally, I asked for some more Chorus options. I was a big fan of the squarewave digital and analog choruses on the XT/ X3, and Spidervalve Mk II. And, I really liked that they also had parameters for pre- delay on them  so I asked for that too. Line 6 is almost like a family and they really seem to be listening to our requests. Lots of stuff that I have wanted they have done. No harm in asking and I have been delighted with what they have been giving us. As I have been saying recently:  I love my tone with the Dream Rig and have never had better tone in my life.

Always find your posts helpful and postive. Thanks a bunch!  By the way, I especially liked that emotional rant you had on another thread. Your a good soul Neal.Glad to be your friend... Funky.



Re: JTV89 acoustic models with a DT25 amp
by MerlinFL on 2012-06-04 21:17:37

Thanks Funky - I am glad whatever I've done has been of help or even just given some new ideas on how to work with your gear.

To do "Love Alive" as was done on the Little Queen album, which they also did the same way live back then...keep in mind the band had essentially 5 of the 6 band members who can play guitar.

  1. Nancy - guitar 1 is the first portion I showed and played.
  2. Roger - guitar 2 is with all the harmonics
  3. Howard - guitar 3 is a 12-string and doubles Nancy for the first half, then doubles Roger in the second half.
  4. Steve - bass almost doubles the Nancy part, but doesn't play every note, just the more prominent ones
  5. Ann - does the flute part at the top, then (depending on what show and what year) she would either just sing, or join in with an additional 6-string acoustic just playing two or three chords that are hit and held out throughall the changes to add the overall harmonic tension and resolution.



That's all the parts and including drums I played and recorded.  It's been sitting on my recorder along with several other Heart and non-Heart songs waiting for the right female vocalist to come along since 2009.  I've been searching most of my life for a voice with enough range to cover a wide variety of material, only to come up short. 

If you know of a talented female singer, please send her my way and we can do  any of th songs I want, plus whatever she might want over the internet and post themup on YouTube as I've done with a Kansas Tribute band I worked with for a while.  That was some very fun stuff.  Hard to believe that players from all over the globe played the same song each to oour own parts, and them mixed it all together with some video clips and it sounds just like Kansas and we've never even spoken to each other.



Re: JTV89 acoustic models with a DT25 amp
by aeugle on 2012-06-05 08:51:46

Sorry I cant find your patches.

Please post the link or the "search question"

Tanks in advance

Thomas



Re: JTV89 acoustic models with a DT25 amp
by MerlinFL on 2012-06-05 11:12:14

Here ya go...

http://line6.com/customtone/profile/MerlinFL/

I think I'm going to add a few new ones, and perhaps post a few Dream Rig Specific combination of patches in the near future.



Re: JTV89 acoustic models with a DT25 amp
by Martinyp on 2012-06-06 06:37:14

To close out my original post. I tried connecting an active studio monitor to the FX send of the HD500 and this worked. I have also tried connecting the monitor to the 1/4" unbalanced output on the HD500. This also works.

I am currently trying to decide which method I like the sound of best.




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