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JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time
by edstar1960 on 2011-10-20 08:18:59

Here is an official Line6 demo of the JTV69 from Paul Hindmarsh using VDI and 1/4" jack connected at the same time:  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meqkcELwew0&feature=related

Ihave seen many reports on the forums that using both VDI and 1/4" connections at the same time is not viable because you get ground loop problems and other high pitched noises.  I have also tried doing the same thing with my JTV59 and encountered a ground loop issue and a high pitched whine. I have also seen reports that Line6's official response is that the guitar is working as designed when it encounters these issues.

So please can we have a detailed description of the rig and connection's that Paul used during this video that avoided all of these reported issues and allowed him to have both the VDI and 1/4" jack connections connected at the same time.  I am sure many people would be interested to know how they can circumvent this problem.

Thank you.



Re: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time
by TheRealZap on 2011-10-20 08:24:19

just curious...

why would you want both connected at the same time anyway?



Re: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time
by edstar1960 on 2011-10-20 08:36:49

Actually, I personally don't have that requirement - yet - but I know of several people who have mentioned it on the forums and the guy who prompted this question was using his JTV59 with VDI connected to his POD HD500 and at the same time using the 1/4" out to drive his ELEVEN rack.

Some people may want to use the POD VDI to power the JTV and change the model patches by footswitch operation but take the 1/4" jack output direct into another signal processor.

Plus - I guess Paul Hindmarsh in the official Line6 demo video had a good reason why he had both connected at the same time.  He doesn't actually expalin it though and doesn't draw attention to the fact that he has both cables connected - but you can clearly see that both are connected as he lifts the guitar up and talks through the demo. If we can find out what his setup was I guess we would understand why he had both plugged in.

I am interested to hear others input and Line6 official answer.



Re: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time
by TheRealZap on 2011-10-20 09:42:12

i went to one of pauls demo's in person and i don't think that the intent was anything to do with utilizing both connections simultaneously... more that he builds on each component...

first showing the guitar itself and eventually showing the whole "dream rig" by including all of the patches tones etc of the pod and then the DT50 topologies etc.

i'm not saying you couldn't get creative and run it to multiple processors etc... (as long as one is an L6 due to the VDI)

was just curious is all, i suppose....



Re: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time
by edstar1960 on 2011-10-20 10:34:05

Actually it's not the utilizing both simultaneously that is significant - it's simply the fact that both are connected at the same time and he does not have any ground loop or high pitched whine issues - but I did when I tried it, and several others have had problems when they have tried it, and when some of these other users raised the question with Line6 the response was that the guitars were not faulty and that these issues were expected or normal (or words to that effect). But here we have the JTV69 demonstrated with both VDI and 1/4" connected at the same time, and apparently there are no issues - contrary to the answers others have been receiving.  So, it is possible to have both connected at the same time without issues, so how is it done?   Is it down to the individual JTV (ie: some are actually faulty in this respect)? Or is it down to some unit in the signal chain (ie: a hum destroyer)? A detailed description of Paul's rig setup from that video will hopefully answer all these questions.



Re: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time
by stevekc on 2011-10-20 12:00:54

I can not verify this  - but it my theory he is using the 1/4" output to feed a DI box to the Video camera, and the VDI is for his own monitor.

Thus no ground loop noises

Thust a theory.



Re: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time
by TheRealZap on 2011-10-20 12:02:29

good point... maybe the 1/4" was setup for the acoustic part of the demo?!!

some DI boxes do have ground lifts...



Re: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time
by edstar1960 on 2011-10-21 01:38:01

Thanks for the input and a suggested solution - has anybody actually tried this and can they verify whether it works?

In fact, has anyone actually successfully used a JTV (or a Variax 700 or other model) with both the VDI and 1/4" jack connections plugged in to equipment at the same time?   If so, please can you post your successful set up in this thread to share with others who would like to do the same.

And if anybody who actually wants to do this can share the reasons why they want to - that would also be beneficial to the discussion.

Meanwhile, waiting to hear from Line6 the details of Paul's rig setup for that demo.  Thanks.



RE: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time
by Line6Hugo on 2011-10-21 10:03:12

edstar1960,

In the video's comments, Paul's says, "that would have been acoustics straight into the PA and electrics into POD HD500 and DT50."

Using both outputs on the JTV's typically yields the ground loop noise you mentioned. Using a D.I. box with a ground lift or a Ground Loop Eliminator box would need to be used to eliminate this problem.

Regards,

Line6Hugo



Re: RE: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time
by edstar1960 on 2011-10-21 10:34:47

Hi Hugo,

Thanks for the response.  I know from personal experience that not only do you get a ground loop problem but you also get a high pitched whine at around 3K when using both connections, and the ground lift or ground loop eliminator does not remove that sound.

Also, can we clarify that Paul was actually using a DI box with a ground lift or a ground loop eliminator unit in his rig?

Plus can we clarify that his comment "acoustics into PA and electrics into HD500 and DT50" actually meant his electric model signals were going via the VDI and the acoustic modelled sound was going via the 1/4" jack into the PA.  And further - did his 1/4" jack go into a DI box with ground lift before going to PA?

If that's all that is needed to resolve this problem then I am sure everyone will be pleased to hear it and try it out.

Thanks in advance.

Best Regards

Eddie



Re: RE: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time
by edstar1960 on 2011-10-24 04:58:51

OK - I tried to recreate the problem today and to my complete surprise I could not.

JTV with VDI and 1/4" jack both connected to my HD500 standalone and no ground loop hum !!  But it definitely did it last week when I first raised this thread - in fact that is what prompted me to raise the question.

I tried these scenarios as well and found that they seemed to work.

JTV with VDI connected to HD500 and "live" out 1/4" connected to input of combo amp, PLUS, JTV with 1/4" jack connected to input of my XENYX802 mixer - no noise when monitoring on headphones via either HD500 or XENYX802.

Same but with HD500 standalone and XENYX 1/4" output connected to input of my combo.

I then introduced my powered PA speaker into the scenario - so take scenario 1 with HD500 connected to combo and I added the powered PA speaker connected to the 1/4" out from my XENYX802 - and NOW I get a pulsing sound that is in time with the TAP tempo button on my HD500.  Weird!  This sound is there even when the output volume for the mixer is turned off.

So I thought I would try a DI box. So the JTV 1/4" into the DI box GROUND Lift input and then into the mixer and the pulsing hum was still there. So I tried it into the DI box input without the GROUND Lift and the sound disappeared!!  I tried this with both balanced and unbalanced cables from the DI box to the mixer - both times the hum was present if I used GROUND lift but went away if I used the normal input.  If I did not use the DI box then the sound would also return.    That has confused me along with the fact that I could not reproduce the original problem.

Bottom line is that it does appear to be possible to use BOTH the VDI and 1/4" jack outputs of the JTV at the same time without problems - so if you do hit problems then experiment with ground lift and ground loop eliminators and different connection methods and hopefully you will find a method that works.



Re: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time
by m1westwood on 2012-05-26 14:16:21

RealZap,

I use a Digitech Vocalist live 4 for Harmonies, and I need to run my guitar though that.  I am thinking the best way to do this would be to use two cables; the VDI cable to my hd500 and the 1/4 inch cable to my VL4.  Have not tried it yet, but this is why I would want to use both cables.  Unless - someone else can tell me how to get a clean (effects free) signal by going VDI through the hd500 and then out from there to my VL4.

Thoguhts?



Re: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time
by MerlinFL on 2012-05-26 16:50:52

Yes - you could do exactly that and it would work or...

You could use the FX loop Send Only into your Vocalist to get the guitar chords for pitch tuning without using two chords or disrupting your signal path and VDI connection.  You don't need the signal to come back out of the Vocalist, just in for your harmonies.

And I had to re-read your question - the second part..FX free, that will be based on where in the signal chain you put the FX loop send.  If you put it at the top of the signal chain or even after a noise gate, it would not have any FX after the loop send as you wanted.



Re: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time
by cajulian on 2012-05-26 19:53:30

I have been using my JTV69 thru a HD500 to DT25 Head and cabinet, and connected to my PA.  I Have been using both the VDI cable for electric to my DT25 and the 1/4 cable for acoustics to my PA.  I do get a high pitch/hum initially, but I go to my Hd500 and switch the input source to either Variax or Guitar and it eliminates the noise and I can play either the electric or the acoustics with no interference.  It works like this every time I have both cables in use.



Re: RE: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time
by Benni2407 on 2012-08-02 02:02:56

Hello,

I am responding to this old thread, because it adresses my actual problem pretty well. I want to use the following setup:

Both (VDI and 1/4") outputs of the JTV-59. VDI should go to POD X3 Live for acoustic sounds and 1/4" output should feed my Combo. I get am big noise/hum problem with that configuration.

Now I thought of putting a DI-Box with Ground Lift in the line from 1/4" jack of the JTV to the combo. But I do not really understand how to do this. If I got it right, the signal coming out of the DI is symmetric, isn't it? Can I feed my combo with a symmetric signal? I guess I can't. So what to to? I would be really glad to have your help!

Thanks in advance,

Benni



Re: RE: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time
by edstar1960 on 2012-08-02 02:21:55

Hi Benni,

By symmetric, I assume you mean balanced.  Well I think it is OK to use an XLR to 1/4 inch lead or adaptor between the DI box and combo input - so I would try that first.

The other thing I would try is to use the DI box for acoustic sound and X3L for combo and avoid the balanced to unbalanced issue.

Hope that helps.

Best Regards

Eddie



Re: RE: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time
by Benni2407 on 2012-08-02 02:50:18

Hi Eddie,

many thanks for your fast reply! Yes, I mean balanced. Sorry for my English... In German the right word is "symmetrisch" so I thought it might also be called "symmetric" in Englisch.

I'm going to try the adaptor-version. I just found out, that there are ground loop eliminators, that work with 1/4" jacks as input and output. Maybe thats another solution. For example the ART Cleanbox II.

The thing why I don't want to swap VDI and 1/4" is, that the POD gives best acoustic sounds and my amp makes brilliant sounds, when there is no POD before it. Actually I have the POD in the amp's loop, to get delays etc. from the POD. When I switch to the acoustic preset on the POD, the POD's loop is turned off and and output is sent to the direct outs instead of the live out, where the amp's loop is connected.

That is really complicated, but it would give the best results for me, if I could get rid of that noise.

Thanks again,

Benni



Re: RE: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time
by edstar1960 on 2012-08-02 03:42:08

Hi Benni,

No need to apologise - your English is excellent.  I understand your reasons for why you want the set up as you described.  Good luck with removing the hum and please post your solution here when you finally get it resolved.

Best Regards

Eddie



Re: RE: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time
by Benni2407 on 2012-08-02 04:15:33

Hi Eddie,

thank you for your commendation! I'll do my best to get the hum problem mastered! For sure I will post my solution here if I am able to figure out a way to satisfactory solve it.

Best regards,

Benni



Re: RE: JTV operation with VDI and 1/4" jack connected at same time
by Benni2407 on 2012-08-13 05:51:57

Hello,

I have figured out a solution for my hum problem now. I bought a ground loop eliminator, that has two seperate channels (Behringer HD400). This gound loop eliminator is put both in the line from the amp's fx-send to POD's aux and in the line from POD's live out to the amp's fx-return. Doing this, the POD is completely separated from the amp, which solves the hum problem.

Another way would be to put the ground loop eliminator in the line from the guitar to the amp's input. This also works, but I tend to hear a little less punch in the sound then.

Maybe this helps people, who would like to play the same setup, that I do. It's really flexible now!

regards,

Benni




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