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Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by hansvaneven on 2011-10-23 04:16:42

I know few chances are to have some update on this from L6 before a release, but desperately need a better EQ for the HD500, just finished a cool weekend playing with the HD500 and had some compliments on the sounds I made, but the EQ is way too limited to make it perfect for me, and I can't find any other solution for this. Really hope L6 will look into this soon ....

thanks,

Hans



RE: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by laplayantonio on 2011-10-24 04:09:29

Thanks for getting in contact with us regarding your feedback. However, for your feedback to get to the right people, it needs to be added to our product feedback database, which can be done here:

http://line6.com/company/contact/productFeedback/?topicSelected=3

We take your feedback very seriously and appreciate the time you take to help us better serve you with better quality products.

Thank you,

Line 6 Customer Service



Re: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by AZGdude on 2011-10-24 08:55:58

As I am sure you know, It's been over 5 months since the last update. So I won't be holding my breath waiting on this or any of the other requested updates/fixes.



Re: RE: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by hansvaneven on 2011-10-24 13:34:22

Thanks Antonio,

but I already did this a long time ago, this seems also to be a request for some other people on this forum, and guitar players I've talked to here agree that the EQ on the HD500 is a weak point. So I hope that next update will include a decent EQ so we can finetune our sounds even better.

Thanks,

Hans



Re: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by hansvaneven on 2011-10-24 13:35:03

I just hope they took notice of this when I asked fror this a long time ago ... :)

thanks,

Hans



Re: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by Mr_Arkadin on 2011-10-24 13:48:15

hansvaneven wrote:

I just hope they took notice of this when I asked fror this a long time ago ...

thanks,

Hans

Rather than hoping, how about shooting them a message as suggested and then they will definitely see it:

http://line6.com/company/contact/productfeedback/



Re: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by hansvaneven on 2011-10-24 14:06:39

Already done, but not sure if it makes sence to submit the question  several times ....



Re: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by AZGdude on 2011-10-24 19:21:54

Like alot of other people, I did so probably 9+ months ago. However, It doesn't seem like they care very much. It's been nearly 6 months since the last update.



Re: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by ozbadman on 2011-10-24 21:47:37

AZGdude wrote:

Like alot of other people, I did so probably 9+ months ago. However, It doesn't seem like they care very much. It's been nearly 6 months since the last update.

Well, to be fair, I think they've been pretty busy getting the POD HD and Pod HD PRO on the market. Now they're out they may have a bit more time to work on some of these things.



Re: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by chimp_spanner on 2011-10-25 03:06:15

I think that's a bit of an unfair criticism. The last update was a *major* one, in that it actually made this unit useable for me and I'm now in a position where I can retire my X3 Pro (or at least relegate it to bass duties!).

The thing is if they release updates too quickly, bugs will inevitably find their way back into the unit and then they'll have a forum full of angry Line 6'ers to contend with. I'd rather have big, substantial updates spaced further apart than patch upon bug fix upon more patches.

We're only at 1.3. X3 made it all the way to 2.0 so I don't doubt there are some great things in store!

In the meantime, on the subject of EQ's I think what would be really handy is a two or three band parametric, as there's usually more than one frequency you want to get rid of (often an octave or harmonic of the frequency you're removing).

Your other option, if recording, is to just EQ in your sequencer. Which is what I do most of the time.



Re: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by hansvaneven on 2011-10-25 03:20:43

Don't forget that Bass players have been left out for one year on the HD fest, so maybe they are working on that first ? Anyway, the HD500 really needs a good EQ, I have had very good comments on my sound, but for me it's a pain to fine tweak with the current EQ's. On a record, you can just add a good EQ plugin, but on live it's hard.

cheers,

Hans



Re: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by AZGdude on 2011-10-25 07:31:48

ozbadman wrote:

Well, to be fair, I think they've been pretty busy getting the POD HD and Pod HD PRO on the market. Now they're out they may have a bit more time to work on some of these things.

To be fair, the POD HD line has now been out for over one year and has only received one major update that realistically IMHO only took the product out of beta testing. In contrast, in four or five months since the release of the Axe-Fx II Fractal has released two major updates and version 3.0 is in beta testing and being openly talked about. Unlike version 1.0 on the HD, 1.0 on the Axe2 was a true 1.0 release that was fully functional, but had a few bugs that were quickly addressed. The Axe2 is a MUCH more complex device made by a much smaller company yet they progress at a pace many times that of Line 6. Clearly Line 6 could do a lot better if it was a priority. Clearly it is not.

Count me in as someone who would happily pay a higher price for a better designed and supported all in one floor pedal like the HD500. But there currently are no other better options. I would also happily pay extra for some amp, cab and efx expansion packs. But after a year there is still no sign of this happening. This seems especially strange since the profit margins on software expansion packs is many times the profit margins on most hardware.

Defend them if you like, but after one year it is hard to argue they are working hard on improving the product. I would argue that they are doing the minimum needed to keep customers quiet. Nothing more.



Re: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by phil_m on 2011-10-25 08:07:08

Defend them if you like, but after one year it is hard to argue they are working hard on improving the product. I would argue that they are doing the minimum needed to keep customers quiet. Nothing more.

And you would know this how? Yeah, I'm sure all the programmers at Line 6 spend their days playing Angry Birds and drinking Apple-tinis...

Developing code for a product that has a user base in the tens of thousands or more is quite different than one that maybe has a few thousand. Especially when you consider that each user has his own wishlist of things that he thinks should be implemented. The Axe-FX II is the only device Fractal makes at the moment (I suppose they are still supporting the original as well), and from what I understand the II is built on much of the same platform as the I. It's a bit different when your sole goal as a company is to support one product versus a bigger company supporting a whole line of products.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if people want something like the type of updates laser focus on a product that the Axe FX offers, they should get the Axe FX. The HD is a different animal.



Re: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by ozbadman on 2011-10-25 08:47:38

AZGdude wrote:


Defend them if you like, but after one year it is hard to argue they are working hard on improving the product. I would argue that they are doing the minimum needed to keep customers quiet. Nothing more.

Attack them if you like, but they are under no obligation to do anything at all. The product works as advertised. I don't know why people feel they are owed anything, including free updates. They are a company, not a fairy godmother. I'd be grateful for free updates, and even tone packs, but it does what it says on the box so if you're not happy with it, sell it. I really don't understand the mentality. I got what I paid for now the bugs are fixed.

That being said, I do agree that it would be a better product with a great many of the suggestions people have made on this site. I also specifically agree that the EQ is one of the weaker points on the HD series and could do with a bit of an overhaul.



Re: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by meambobbo on 2011-10-26 09:12:19

Yeah, I've posted a thread describing numerous flaws with the feature request form.  I think openly discussing stuff on the forum actually works better at getting results.

Anyway, I think the real thing we should all be pushing for is a devkit to make custom firmware.



Re: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by chimp_spanner on 2011-10-26 09:23:45

Nice idea meambobbo but logistical nightmare! Certain tones would require certain firmware versions - definitely better if everyone is on the same software.

Phil you make a good point. Line 6 also have a range of amps, guitars, stomps, software and interfaces that also require support. And as far as Axe FX being version 3.0...ya know what, if I bought something that cost 2,000 bucks I'd expect those kind of updates and then some

Not letting Line 6 entirely off the hook - 1.3 was the first real update and was actually what motivated me to give the HD another shot (and I'm really glad I did!). I do have confidence, though, that now that the majority of the bugs and quirks are seen to, we can look forward to updates that give us some new toys rather than just fixing what should've been working in the first place.

In the meantime, I would hardly say that the EQ's in their current state render the HD useless, but I agree they could be a lot better.

Line 6 would definitely do well to take on board some of the suggestions we've all made, as they could make a great modeller even better.



Re: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by meambobbo on 2011-10-26 11:09:49

I don't think allowing custom firmware would be a logistical nightmare. It COULD be, but that doesn't mean it WILL be.

The way I see it, tones are already tied to a firmware version.  For instance, you can't load a patch that uses the Line 6 Elektrik amp on pre-1.3 firmware.  And given the various changes to the amps from one software version to the next, even a tone that loads on two different firmware version isn't guaranteed to sound all that similar.

I envision the devkit to be usable for novices and experts.  The expert tools would get into the nuts and bolts of the unit, allowing adjustment of amp modeling and effects, and the creation of custom amps, cab sims, mic sims, or effects, which could be saved as independent files.  The novice tools would simply allow them to import or export certain amp or effects models.  So they could use the v1.1 Uber instead of the v1.2 if they wanted.  And they could add amps/effects or remove them.

So a novice user could select all the amp models, cab sims, effects, etc. he wants in his unit, build a firmware file, and push it to his device.  If he tries to load a patch with amp models or effects not included, he gets an error saying which amp model, effect, etc. isn't in his firmware.  If he really wants to load the patch, he makes a new firmware with those elements.

I could easily drop 3-4 of the amps in the unit right now in favor of some more high gain options.  I'd probably also change out a bunch of the cab/mic simulations.  And I'd like some more powerful EQ effects.  But I just don't see Line 6 making these a priority.  As mentioned, they will probably focus instead on bass compabilitity.  Any more amps I'm thinking are going to come as a amp pack, which we will have to pay for.

In the meantime you have people like LePou out there making incredible VST plugins for free.

Line 6 should put such talent to use for them.  There's no doubt numerous individuals would improve upon the amps already in the unit as well as create new amp models that make the unit more appealing.  Line 6 should simply put in the license for the devkit that they can incorporate anything produced from it into their official firmware releases.  So they are basically outsourcing and expanding their software development labor force for free.  The most popular features they add into their official firmware release.  And if there's lots of good features - so many that not all of them fit into a single firmware; they branch the firmware customized for style of play (metal firmware, blues firmware, variety firmware, etc).



Re: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by AZGdude on 2011-10-26 11:35:54

phil_m wrote:

1. Developing code for a product that has a user base in the tens of thousands or more is quite different than one that maybe has a few thousand. Especially when you consider that each user has his own wishlist of things that he thinks should be implemented.

2. The Axe-FX II is the only device Fractal makes at the moment (I suppose they are still supporting the original as well),

3. and from what I understand the II is built on much of the same platform as the I.

4. It's a bit different when your sole goal as a company is to support one product versus a bigger company supporting a whole line of products.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if people want something like the type of updates laser focus on a product that the Axe FX offers, they should get the Axe FX. The HD is a different animal.

1. Actually developing code for a unit that has thousands of users is not much different from developing code for a unit with tens of thousands of users. Both have enough users that major problems will be found by users so they both need to be well beta tested. Being that the Axe2 is a far more complex device, I would argue it is actually harder to develop code for it. More things to go wrong.

2. FAS actually have two current products, the Axe2 and a MIDI controller. But yes Line 6 has a lot more products, but also a lot more employees.

3. The Axe g1 to Axe2 is actually just as big or a bigger transition than the X3 is to the HD. The modeling on both is all or mostly new. Hardware changes seem to be a lot bigger on the Axe2 side.

4. True, it is easier to support a few products than a bunch of products. But Fractal only has a few people working to support their products. I assume, or at least hope, Line 6 has a lot more people supporting their much larger product base. If not, maybe that's the problem.

The HD's are nice products, but they do have bugs and other usability issues and  could be much better products with a little more support. If you believe the level of support thus far has been great or even good, I guess we will have to agree to disagree.



Re: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by AZGdude on 2011-10-26 11:49:24

ozbadman wrote:

Attack them if you like, but they are under no obligation to do anything at all. The product works as advertised.

I believe some people on these forums would disagree with you, but if you are happy great.

ozbadman wrote:

I don't know why people feel they are owed anything, including free updates. They are a company, not a fairy godmother. I'd be grateful for free updates, and even tone packs, but it does what it says on the box so if you're not happy with it, sell it. I really don't understand the mentality. I got what I paid for now the bugs are fixed.

All the bugs are not fixed! Look around this and other forums for a list, and they should be addressed through free updates. And as I stated in my earlier post, I would  be happy to pay extra for some expansion packs. I was not expecting my fairy godmother to give it to me for free.



Re: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by AZGdude on 2011-10-26 11:57:10

Sounds like an interesting idea. But even more overwhelming than learning the nuts and bolts of the Axe-Fx II. When I play guitar I usually prefer to take my engineer cap off



Re: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by DeanDinosaur on 2011-10-26 15:24:42

I think suggestions and  many new ideas do come from the people who post on these boards. As much as I love my HD500, I think that I owe alot of the nice features that I enjoy to those on these boards who actually take the time to fill out feature requests.  I think line 6 wisely utilizes these requests and ideas. To me that's what seperates them from other companies . I am getting results beyond my expectations out of the HD500 and if improvement or support were to stop today, I would still be a very happy camper with what I got, but I do realize, just like line 6 realizes aslo I hope, that to get more people to buy their products, improvements that are addressed by users are the best starting place. To be frank, I personally don't care for being able to load my third party IRs, but I think line 6 would be very wise to include that because many people care to have that feature.

Regarding EQ I did submit a request for an EQ that gives you an option of choosing how many bands, and you choose the filter type (high pass, low pass, paramatric, low shelf etc,) and Q. And for God's Sake, please use frequncies instead of percentages!  If they can do that where your choice has an impact on how much DSP is used, that would be the best EQ outhere. If you only need one band of EQ then you can save DSP, if you need two bands or three, you can basically make your own EQ and still be able to save DSP.   I hope they listen.  Anyone reading this if  you like the idea, please take a moment and also submit the request.



Re: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by Nick_Mattocks on 2011-10-27 00:19:54

AZGdude wrote:

ozbadman wrote:

Well, to be fair, I think they've been pretty busy getting the POD HD and Pod HD PRO on the market. Now they're out they may have a bit more time to work on some of these things.

<snip>

Defend them if you like, but after one year it is hard to argue they are working hard on improving the product. I would argue that they are doing the minimum needed to keep customers quiet. Nothing more.

Like you I can't say if or when there will or won't be a major update, but just because we have been told nothing publicly does not necessarily mean there won't be an update in the next month or the next six months.

There was a major update less than six months ago, which few could argue that improvements weren't made.

If an update does come along soon, will it include changes or additions to the EQs which was what the original question was about?  I couldn't say one way or the other.  Sorry

Line 6 rarely give any warning about forthcoming updates, so I wouldn't hold your breath.  However, based on their past record with other relatively recent products that are by their nature updateable, I think it far more likely that the guys at Line 6 who are involved with the POD HD range are actually going to be working pretty hard on improving the product whether that might be a collection of minor bug fixes or more cool features.... or both.

I think we will all just have to wait and see

Nick



Re: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by tommasi on 2011-10-27 00:52:05

Line6's product update record has always been excellent -- they've been squeezing far more out of their products after launch than any other company as far as I have experienced. They do have however the somewhat "funny" habit of coming up with unexpected, huge surprise bonuses more than they've usually simply "settled" for dealing with what (judging from the forum talks) people seem to be asking more about. No doubt there are exceptions, but

things like the "dots" on the X3, or some global parameters seemed to be easier to manage than what they actually delivered. In any case, all updates came free, so there's very little one can complain about!



Re: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by hansvaneven on 2011-10-27 02:00:03

Thanks a bunch for all your answers, which confirms that i'm not the only one here I also think that these discussions are very important rather then just a feature request and just like the L6electric (ex 1.1 Bogner), which was a result of such discussions, I hope we may see a better EQ for HD soon ...

Hans



Re: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by gregr on 2011-10-27 08:38:03

Has Line 6 ever added a new effect to an existing product line?  If so, what was it and what was the most recent product line upon which it was done?

I am not talking about a new amp model (or an additional mode to an existing model; sorry folks, but while adding a channel to an existing amp model makes the model of that amp more complete, it doesn't exactly constitute a new amp model), nor am I talking about adding something to a lower-tiered product which already existed in a higher-tiered product.



Re: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by phil_m on 2011-10-27 08:54:17

Dude, where have you been?

The PODxt originally had 32 amp models. By the time it was discontinued, there were 78 models, including Bass models, new effects (I'm not sure how many at the moment). Some of the new models were simply free and other were added as model packs. They were all added to the X3 line. The X3 line also was updated with some new effects taken from the M13.

Speaking of the M13, the 2.0 update for that was completely free and it was pretty impressive. It added over 20 new effects, and it expanded the number of total scenes available from 12 to 48. It was a completely free update.

They did similar things with the Spider Valve MKii and Spider IV as well. I'm sure there others I'm missing.

But the point is, Line 6 has been pretty conistent in releasing updates for their products. They may not always come as quickly as people would like, but they do come.



Re: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by gregr on 2011-10-27 09:28:50

Thanks for the encouraging information, though I thought it was pretty clear that I wasn't soliciting numbers on amp models.  I specifically wanted to focus on effects.

On the M13, what were they?  How many of them were not already available in a different product?

I guess I'm pretty skeptical about new EQ models, just as I am skeptical that there will be no new choruses or improvements to the POS noise gate.



Re: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by phil_m on 2011-10-27 09:38:53

Sorry, I read your original post too quickly...

On the XT, they did add the 4-band EQ in one of the updates. They also added the FX Junkie model pack. It has 25 effects in it: http://line6.com/modelPacks/fx.html

On the X3, the 2.0 update added 12 new effects: http://line6.com/support/docs/DOC-1814

On the Spider Valve and Spider IV, they had the "effects infusion" thing. That added over 50 effects: http://line6.com/news/pressReleases/1005

For the M13 2.0 release, they were some pretty cool effects. New EQs, new mods, new delays, and the Particle Verb. Description is on page 1.2 here.

These aren't insubstantial updates.



Re: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by gregr on 2011-10-27 09:44:00

Awesome. Thanks Phil!



Re: Any hope for a new firmware with updated EQ soon ?
by Mr_Arkadin on 2011-10-27 10:22:53

The XT also added seven wahs to the original one wah model as I recall. And the not so great Bender was a later addition.




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