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4 cable method ???
by graaf33 on 2011-11-08 15:41:52

hello everyone!

i´ve been looking around on this forum and lets face it its a mess concerning the 4cm.

i know that nothing is wrong. but still there are some rules.

so!

i have some question!

i got a blackstar s-100 and a pod hd500

on my amp´s fx return/send i got an 4db/-10 db level switch

i want to use my amp´s preamp and power amp only fx on hd500

so the switches on hd500?

line stomp (back of the hd500)

guitar in - pad/normal     left side pedal

xlr   lift/ground                 left side pedal

1/4" out  line/ground       left side pedal

and the outputs  studio/direct - combo power amp etc.

where to put them?

tips would be great about the send/return level on pod! what to do and not to do?

thanks for answer

harald



Re: 4 cable method ???
by jimsreynolds on 2011-11-08 16:16:54

Harald

If you are using Effects Only from your HD then the best option is probably to use Instrument level (-10dB) throughout.  If you also want to use Modelled amps then there is some merit in setting the 1/4" Out switch to 'Line'  (to balance off the modelled and real pre-amps) but lets talk about effects only for now:

There is a primer on 4CM here and you may want to read through this to get your head straight --> http://line6.com/support/docs/DOC-2504

Cabling

Cable 1:  Guitar Out --> HD Guitar In

Cable 2:   HD500 FX Send --> Amp Input

Cable 3:  Amp FX Send --> HD500 FX Return (Left)

Cable 4:   HD500 1/4" Out (Left) --> Amp FX Return

Amp Settings

Master volume(if you have one)  = Low (for now, while you are setting up.  See the note about master volumes below)

Amp Loop Switch  = -10dB (Instrument level)

Amp Loop Turned on !

If the amp loop has a 'mix' control, make sure this is set to 100%

HD500 Settings

Guitar Input Pad = Normal (unless you hear clipping from your guitar due to very powerful pickups)

Master Volume = 100% (See the note about master volumes below)

1/4" Out Switch = 'Amp'

Loop Level Switch = 'Stomp'

System Output = 'Stack Power Amp' (within system settings)

Note on Master Volumes:     on many amps the Master control is implemented after the effects loop.  On some other amplifiers the master control is implemented before the effects loop.  In this case the output volume on your effects unit becomes the master control for the amp and you may need to turn the master control on your amp way high to provide a signal into the effects loop.  Equally, you would need to turn the HD500 Master level down !

Ok.  That covers the cabling and switching.  Now in terms of creating patches ....

  1. Start off by creating a completely ‘Blank’ patch with no effects set and no amp model selected.
  2. Move the mixer device to the very end of the effects chain by moving all of the effects blocks in front of the amp model.
  3. Add an ‘FX Loop’ effect to the effects chain somewhere near the middle.
  4. Add a studio EQ just before the FX Block. No EQ changes should be set but the gain should be raised by +6dB (if the guitar input level switch is set to 'normal') or +11.5dB (if the guitar input switch is set to 'Pad'). This compensates for a level drop between the HD Input and the HD FX Loop.
  5. The mixer channel A should be set to 0dB -1.5dB and Panned Centre. Mixer channel B should be set to 'Mute'.
  6. Any effects that you want ‘in front’ of the Amp can now be inserted into a free block to the left of the ‘FX Loop’ block in the effects chain. Typically these might include Compressor/Overdrive/Distortion and Wah.
  7. Any effects that you want in the ‘Loop’ of the Amp can now be inserted into a free block to the right of the ‘FX Loop’ block in the effects chain. Typically these might include Delay/Modulation and Reverb.
  8. Try and ensure that the ‘Output’ or ‘Level’ for each individual effect does not make the overall volume level louder or quieter.  This will avoid level problems with the patch overall.
  9. Set ‘Input 2 Source’ to ‘Variax’ even if you do not have one.  This will reduce background noise on higher gain patches and will help keep the input gain at the right levels

That is it.  Bear in mind that the level settings are a guideline and can vary a bit from amp to amp.   I wrote a more comprehensive guide specifically for the Marshall JVM that has more info and tips that may be relevant.  This is posted here --> http://jvmforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5333 and may be worth reading also.  Other guides are posted on this board too.

Cheers.

JIM

Edit 21 Nov 2011 : after originally posting this I created a document describing this setup and giving an alternative one that can be used if your modelled amps are much quieter than your real pre-amp.  This can be found here -->http://line6.com/support/docs/DOC-2522



Re: 4 cable method ???
by graaf33 on 2011-11-09 03:05:41

ok thanks will check tonight thanks.

and one more thing. do i have to mess around with send/return level in the loop now?



Re: 4 cable method ???
by jimsreynolds on 2011-11-09 05:13:59

In a word, 'No' ... well probably not anyway.  In more words ..

The FX Loop Send level is effectively the level sent out to the Blackstar pre-amp and allows you to cut the level - not boost.  This is unfortunate because the HD seems to drop a few dB between it's input and Loop send. 

That is the reason for the studio EQ at step 4: to boost the FX Send Level a little.  If you need to adjust the level up or down, it is probably best to adjust the gain level on that EQ.  On my HD, using the Studio EQ as I describe gives you 'unity' gain - no boost or cut - between the input of the HD and the loop.  I would expect this to be the case with other HDs also.

The FX Loop Return Level controls the level coming back from your Blackstar Pre-amp into the HD Loop return and allows you to boost the gain level - not cut.  It should not need to be adjusted unless you find that the FX loop Send on the Blackstar cuts your gain level.  Then you can raise it be a few DB to compensate.   Try flipping the blackstar loop on and off with things the way I describe above.,  If things get quieter then try boosting the loop return.

You should do all level checks like this using a patch without additional effects (apart from the FX and Studio EQ blocks).  This is cause the levels can be pushed up and down by individual effects. When you add the additional effects , pay attention to output level settings in the individual effects and try and keep things at the same level as when the effect was turned off.

BTW - your blackstar supports MIDI switching.  That means that you could connect the HD to the Blackstar using a MIDI cable and it would be able to change channels when you change patches on the HD.



Re: 4 cable method ???
by graaf33 on 2011-11-09 05:23:15

yes the midi switching i got working. thats awsome.

thanks for reply

harald



Re: 4 cable method ???
by Rowbi on 2011-11-11 02:24:41

wow that's some great info from Jim Reynolds there.

check Jim's other documents here: http://line6.com/support/people/jimsreynolds?view=documents

Jim = the 4CM king it would seem :-)

Rowbi



Re: 4 cable method ???
by jimsreynolds on 2011-11-11 06:15:45

Thanks Rowbi - I'm the Joker more likely!

I know that the setups I describe work on my rig and I hope other people will point out if the setup falls down on theirs so we can get it into the knowledge.



Re: 4 cable method ???
by rizzorock on 2011-11-19 13:02:17

Anyone hooked one of the HD Pros up to a Voodoo Labs Ground Control yet? Trying to figure out the set-up involved. Also curious now that the new updates allow CC changes can I just turn on/off certain effects by using the buttons on the GC?



Re: 4 cable method ???
by jimsreynolds on 2011-11-19 13:36:08

You might want to start a separate thread on this one.   Midi integration is not directly part of the 4CM setup and you might not get the right people reading this thread.

FWIW the advanced guide for the Pro is here ---> http://l6c.scdn.line6.net/data/l/0a06434d54144e6f92aa2937e/application/pdf/POD%20HD%20Pro%20Advanced%20Guide%20(Rev%20B)%20-%20English.pdf.

As I understand it:  the Midi cc Changes are aligned to footswitch assignments and can flip them on and off. Therefore you  first assign the effect you want to a 'footswitch' and then second assign the Midi cc on the ground control to toggle that footswitch on/off.  cc message reference at section C2 of the manual.



Re: 4 cable method ???
by rizzorock on 2011-11-19 15:24:05

thanks for the help. it's greatly appreciated.



Re: 4 cable method ???
by rizzorock on 2011-11-19 18:06:37

does this look correct for the way it is set up on the edit program for the 4cm?

PODPro copy.jpg



Re: 4 cable method ???
by jimsreynolds on 2011-11-20 00:47:35

For the Midi setup? I would need to see the 'controllers' screen.

For the 4CM ....well you have an FX loop which is good but the mixer is not at the end of the chain and there is no Studio EQ in there so it doesn't really line up with my description.  It would basicly work but I have no way to tell what shape your levels are in.



Re: 4 cable method ???
by rizzorock on 2011-11-20 11:09:16

Does this look more like it? I haven't set up the midi assign.

PODProChain copy.jpg

PODProMixer copy 2.jpg

PODProControllers copy.jpg



Re: 4 cable method ???
by jimsreynolds on 2011-11-20 16:35:12

Sorry mate ... not really.  If you are going with my setup then ...

-  The studio EQ should go directly before the FX Loop and be set with a  +6dB Gain boost.

-  The mixer should be set around -14dB

The rest seems OK ...from what I can tell.  It is pretty hard to see the full setup with Edit (and I obviously cannot see the switch settings on your HD and amp).  Suggest that you work through the procedure described originally to make sure nothing else has been missed.



Re: 4 cable method ???
by rizzorock on 2011-11-20 22:10:28

I got it now. Thank you very very much. The only question is why should the mixer be put to -14dB? I was following your step 5 that says "The mixer channel A should be set to 0dB and Panned Centre. Mixer channel B should be set to 'Mute'." Did I miss a change that you may have made? Everything else I have set up and ready to go. Test tomorrow. I'll give an update.



Re: 4 cable method ???
by jimsreynolds on 2011-11-20 23:48:51

Aaargh!  Yes you are quite right.  That is what happens whan I post up after 4 hrs driving, a rehearsal and an impromptu gig !

The reason I said -14 is that there is an alternative setup that allows for both FX and modelled amps to be used when there is a big mismatch between the modelled levels and your amp levels. This uses the output switches set at 'line' and the mixer at -14.  Otherwise it is essentially identical.

Just to confuse things:  I fine tuned the 'Effects-only' setup after the original from 0db to -1.5dB on my setup and this is my reference now. Try  -1.5dB initially and see how that sounds.

I will go back and amend this post.  

FYI - I have consolidate this information now into a document here ---> http://line6.com/support/docs/DOC-2522



Re: 4 cable method ???
by aris17561 on 2011-12-17 15:13:34

hello everyone... I have a question... I have a boss acoustic sim... Where in pod hd500 may i connect to ? In order to use it or by pass it whenever i want ?

Thank you



Re: 4 cable method ???
by jimsreynolds on 2011-12-17 15:37:57

If you plan to use it with 4CM then I would suggest that you plug it in before the POD so that the hookup goes

Guitar --> Acoustic Sim -->  Pod input

Then on through the 4CM as usual.

You cannot automatiically switch the pedal in/out using the HD500 while using 4CM.  You would need to stomp it as usual. 

If you choose not to use 4CM then you could run the Acoustic Sim in the HD FX Loop and switch it in and out as part of the patch.



Re: 4 cable method ???
by aris17561 on 2011-12-18 00:39:12

thank you very much. I will insist a little bit in order to be clear and understand better...

I have a digitech rp1000 and a hd300... With rp1000  I can connect the ac-3 in the stomp loop , and set it on all the time and by pass it or use it and generally control it only form rp .. Is this possible with hd500 ? I guess not as you explain me right ?

with 4cm Tthe acoustic sound will go to the input of my real amp or from the loop of my real amp...? can i control this ?

You told me that

you could run the Acoustic Sim in the HD FX Loop and switch it in and out as part of the patch


You mean that if i connect any stomps to hd fxloop then they will appear to my tones i have made if I switch the ac on ? There is no way to by pass it ? cause ac-3 has not a true by passing , so even if it is off , it colours the sound , and I dont want this... Thats why I need from hd500 to by pass the stomps with a press of a button...



Re: 4 cable method ???
by jimsreynolds on 2011-12-18 03:41:34

Aris

I just read part of the specifications for the RP1000.  It has an amp loop (which is designed to run 4CM) and a stomp loop (which switches external pedal effects such as the AC-3 in and out of your patches).  The RP1000 therefore  effectively has two loops.

The HD500 has just one loop.  It can be used either to do 4cm or switch external effects in and out of your patches but not both

I understand that you would want to bypass the AC-3 if it damaging your tone but I don't think there is a way to run a 4CM and be able to switch the AC-3 in and out of your signal chain.

What I would say though is that the AC-3 should be a fairly neutral pedal when it is switched off.   Boss pedals have reasonably good buffering - unless they are faulty.   It may be that there are levels in your setup that are out of balance.

Do you find that the AC-3 causes tone suck when you plug your guitar directly into it before plugging into the amp?

The only other way I can think of to deal with your problem would be to get a separate Bypass pedal for the AC-3 only.   Something like this. http://www.loop-master.com/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=200">http://www.loop-master.com/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=200">http://www.loop-master.com/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=200



Re: 4 cable method ???
by jimsreynolds on 2011-12-18 03:49:23

... or something like this is you wanted to use the HD Midi to switch stuff in and out http://www.glab.com.pl/midi_2xloop_en">http://www.glab.com.pl/midi_2xloop_en">http://www.glab.com.pl/midi_2xloop_en



Re: 4 cable method ???
by gortur on 2011-12-24 14:28:24

Thanks Jim for your great explanation! One question though, instead of adding a Studio Eq boost, wouldn't it be possible to set the fx loop switch to 'line' and lowering the send level by an appropriate amount? That way you would save an effect slot and still get the right send level to your amp input. Just a thought, maybe there's a reason why this isn't a good idea.



Re: 4 cable method ???
by jimsreynolds on 2011-12-24 15:28:15

It's a fair question.  I tried this but found that setting the loop to line raised the noise level too.  Turning down the loop send level lowered the level of the signal but the noise level stayed the same

By all means try it  - but do so with the volume up so you can hear the relative noise level.  I would be interested to hear how you get on.  Perhaps it is just me but I suspect not.



Re: 4 cable method ???
by gortur on 2011-12-25 00:58:27

Yep, you're spot-on right. The noise level does increase significally making this a poor choice. Too bad, it seems like a waste to use an effect slot just to raise a send level. As you point out, too bad that you can't raise the level within the FX Loop block...



Re: 4 cable method ???
by jimsreynolds on 2011-12-25 01:48:12

All I want for Xmas ...



Re: 4 cable method ???
by trippy on 2012-01-06 13:10:56

I use the HD500 together with the TriAxis in the following way:

Guitar >> TriAxis guitar input

TriAxis send >> HD500 guitar input

HD500 out L + R >> TriAxis return L + R.

The HD500 is used for FX only, no amp or cab modeling.

In addition, the HD500 is connected via MIDI into the TriAxis so when I'm switching a preset in the HD, a preset in the TriAxis is changed as well.

Works like a charm!



Re: 4 cable method ???
by jimsreynolds on 2012-01-06 15:49:10

trippy wrote:

In addition, the HD500 is connected via MIDI into the TriAxis so when I'm switching a preset in the HD, a preset in the TriAxis is changed as well.

Works like a charm!

Yes,  if your amp supports MIDI then that is a great way to go.   When I change patch on my HD it automatically selects the correct channel on my JVM.   I also have FS assignments that send MIDI changes to my JVM that  select the second master level or another channel mid-tune. 



Re: 4 cable method ???
by trippy on 2012-01-21 07:05:14

I'm still asking myself way using 4cm in this way:

Cabling

Cable 1:  Guitar Out --> HD Guitar In

Cable 2:   HD500 FX Send --> Amp Input

Cable 3:  Amp FX Send --> HD500 FX Return (Left)

Cable 4:   HD500 1/4" Out (Left) --> Amp FX Return

Either then do it that way:

Guitar > AMP GTR In

AMP Send > HD GTR In

HD Out L > AMP Return

And if your amp is a stereo one then you can use also HD Out R > AMP Return R.

In this way you don’t need the entire mixer issues as well as playing with all the db / levels etc…

Correct me if I'm wrong.



Re: 4 cable method ???
by jimsreynolds on 2012-01-22 06:40:20

Trippy.  The setup you describe is legitimate  - with the HD completely in the amp loop - but there is a significant drawback to doing it that way.

Normally your distortions, wahs and certain other effects would be positioned before the Amp.   Most people feel that they sound better positioned there.   If you cable your HD completely into the Amp Loop then you cannot position these effects in front of the amp.  This is the point of 4CM:  to allow you to have your before-amp effects and loop-effects correctly positioned using a single Multifx.  The HD500/Pro does this well.  The Bean and 400 to a lesser degree.  The 300 .... not !

Many people do just run a MultiFX in the loop and accept this limitation.   4CM is for those who dont.

The doc here explains this in more detail --> http://line6.com/support/docs/DOC-2523">http://line6.com/support/docs/DOC-2523">http://line6.com/support/docs/DOC-2523


Cheers

JIM



Re: 4 cable method ???
by rxdca on 2012-08-02 09:37:09

I have both an HD500 and an XTL floorboard.  Right now I'm only using the HD500 and the XTL is collecting dust.  I have worked up a couple of two-amp patches with a clean amp and a dirty amp for the HD500.  Of course, this eats up DSP power like crazy and I don't have all the effects that I want or need.  So, I'm wondering about using some of the effects in the XTL.  If I wanted to do this, use what DSP room I have on the HD500 and then add some effects from the XTL, how would I need to connect them?



Re: 4 cable method ???
by jimsreynolds on 2012-08-02 14:45:20

Are you using 4CM?  If not, can I ask you to raise another thread for this so we can keep this one consistent.  Thx.



Re: 4 cable method ???
by clantostheny on 2012-08-29 20:26:30

This post is just a tip for everyone that uses this four cable method...

At one time I was using a Line 6 X3 LIVE with my EVH 5150 III amplifier.  The most notable missing element in the EVH 5150 III is a master volume, (as are obviously any pre and post-amp effects you might want) and a Line 6 X3 LIVE gave me that and a bit more.)

Now with 4 cables, and a desire to be setup and dialed in as quick as possible at the venue, I wanted to color code the cables, and the jacks so that I could just "connect the dots," so to speak.

You can buy Avery Color Coding Labels #5472 from most office supply stores.  One package contains more red, green, yellow, and blue dots than you could ever use for this application.  These paper dots are 3/4" round and have a removable self-adhesive backing. You can easily cut the center out of these paper dots with an exacto knife, remove the jacks on your Line 6 X3 LIVE, put these dots over the jack hole, and replace the jacks.  It looks very professional.  I was able to do the same with the jacks on my EVH 5150 III as well.

In addition, I use Planet Waves instrument cables, which allows you to also color code the cables with a "rubberband-like" ring.  They supply these rings in green, yellow, and grey.  I used grey to mean blue, and I easily fabricated a red ring from an old red (right channel) RCA jack, by just cutting a small loop of the red sleeve material off.

Even without the Planet Waves instrument cables, there is no need to think about cabling up, just connect the dots!

Enjoy,

John



Re: 4 cable method ???
by hzpyzs on 2012-12-04 16:32:28

I tried the 4 cable method with my HD 500 and DT50. I used the sudio eq and added the boost. Double checked the cables etc .. I had to crank the amp way way up just to be able even here the guitar. I read that some setups may require the amp to be turned up, but the volume drop was so huge, I can't see anyone ever being able to play out like that. The amp just wouldn't get loud at all. This was with the HD500 master on full.  I can only assume, I did something wrong ..

Any guesses as to what look for ? I like the DT 50  models, and being able to kick on/off  some effects  is about all I really need at this time so the 4 cable is very intriguing to me, if I can workout my level drop issue.



Re: 4 cable method ???
by hollis1003 on 2012-12-04 18:31:01

Most likely you didn't have the switch set correctly.  For that method the 1/4" Out should be set to line as it is going into the fx return.



Re: 4 cable method ???
by jimsreynolds on 2012-12-05 03:05:07

hzpyzs - Hollis may well be right here.  The obvious two places where volume gets lost are

-  Before the FX Loop send.  This is why we have the studio EQ boosted really high.   You can tell if there is a problem here because, on the amp's crunch/mid gain channels, there is a clear loss of 'dirt' compared to when you plug directly into the amp.

-  The final connection from the Pod Out to the Amp FX Return.  I cannot find an authoritative spec but the marketting claims that 'pedals' run well in the loop and that you can tweak the level using a knob.  This suggests that the loop runs at 'Amp' level with adjustment available.  I would go with Hollis' suggestion for now and try running the 1/4" Output at line level.

From what I read:  you cannot turn the DT50 loop off.  However, you could test whether the volume loss is coming in there by removing cables 3 and 4 ffrom the 4CM hookup (completely, at both ends) and seeing how the volume level compares to when they are in place.  If things are much quieter than with the cables in place  then having the 1/4" out set to Line seems like a good option. If you are using my guide above then try using the mixer also to lift up the levels.



Re: 4 cable method ???
by jimsreynolds on 2012-12-05 03:06:45

Nice tip and definitely a smart move to reduce confusion on the cable hookup.  I use insulating tape.... 1 strip on cable one, 2 strips on cable 2 etc.



Re: 4 cable method ???
by hzpyzs on 2012-12-08 13:38:27

Thanks Guys. I will give it another go and report back.



Re: 4 cable method ???
by vidaljuanes on 2012-12-09 03:35:19

Gracias, por fin aclare todas mins dudas con el metodo y ahora a disfrutar ...

un +1 Para ti.

desde Chile saludos

Thanks, finally clarify all doubts mins with the method and now enjoy ...

+1 for you.

greetings from Chile



Re: 4 cable method ???
by hzpyzs on 2012-12-12 20:10:10

Not sure exactly sure what I did I wrong the first time, I reconnected everything and it worked like a champ. I might not of had one of the cables pushed all the way in on the back the amp. To me the 4 CM is great. I am sure I probably could have put together a pedal board of used pedals. Tuner, wah, delay, tube screamer, compressor for the same or a little less than the HD 500. But now I can virtualy swap out any pedal, or create multiple virtual pedalboards by just changing to a different patch and I don't have spend more cash trying different combinations of pedals.

I picked up a factory second DT 50 first and fell in love with the tone. I struggled trying to recapture that feeling after I got the POD. I know the POD can sound great, I have heard it many times in other peoples demo's. The POD is likely just a little over my head. I could never quite get the amp models to sound as good as I did simply following the suggested models that came on the card on top of the DT50. Maybe it was in my head, I seemed to come close a few times, but then I would do some more tweaking and before I knew it, the tone was harsh, annoying or over processed or had to much of effect ... It is pretty obvious that switching topologies in the middle of a song is not very practical, although the idea sounded intriguing when I first started looking at the DT/HD500 Link combination.

Now using the 4cm, I got exactly what I wanted. A great amp that can sound like a Fender, Marshall or Mesa Boogie for less than the price of a decent version of any one of them. I also have a pedalboard with a nearly endless supply of combinations and a decent tuner for the price of a first attempt at creating a small board. I know there is a ton of high tech going to waste, but I still feel like I am getting a good value for my dollar. Now I can focus and being be a better player and not trying to tweak my patches all the time.

Thank you Jim and Hollis, and  Thank you Line  6 !!!!



Re: 4 cable method ???
by lou_kuehl on 2013-02-23 18:34:32

Hello,

This 4 cable method sounds great until I apply it to my setup. I'm currently running on;

Amps; 2 Marshall mg100hdfx w/1 4x10 matched cab and 1 4x12 tube works cab(yeah that's right tube works)hehe

I'm only using the power amps with the with rear panel set at -10db the front fx level at near 9 and master volume at 3 to 41/2 respectively.

HD500 settings; 1/4 out, set to line, then 1 plugged to each fx return of amp

                        Guitar in set to normal

                        XLR set to ground

                        Master volume 1-4

I listed this current stuff to see what you think, you seem to know a heck of a lot about this PODhd, maybe you could try this setup on your amp, I think this sounds great but I'd like an educated opinion. My amps are solid-state which I'll bet you know. Either way I'd at least like to know why 4-cable is'nt working for me, just tried it, did it just as you described minus the boost from eq. Did'nt sound as good as the other way. So if you have some time maybe try a comparison and post you're opinion, I'd appreciate it.



Re: 4 cable method ???
by jimsreynolds on 2013-02-24 03:16:48

Well for one thing you need to turn the  effects loop mix all the way to maximum. Any thing less and you are likely to have problems. In the setup described in my document you will definitely need the studio eq if you want things to sound right.



Re: 4 cable method ???
by jimsreynolds on 2013-02-24 03:42:09

Oh,  and 4cm will work just as well on solid state as is does on tube amps. It is only worth doing though if you like the tone of your amp (preamp)  in the first place.  If you do not then there is no point.  In this case just jack the pod output straight into your amp FX return and keep it simple with pod amp models only.



Re: 4 cable method ???
by lou_kuehl on 2013-02-24 08:51:39

Hello,

I did use the studio eq just forgot to kick the gain to 6. Also I have no idea how to set the B signal to mute. I'm not trying to waste your time with my lack of info, but I'm not going to pretend I know anything either. I had the PODxtlive before and the pilots guide was incredibly comprehensive, HD500 not so much. I've referenced the advanced guide also. I just feel that my ignorance is stopping me from reaping the benifits of this unit. I'd like to use all of the devices at my disposal (preamps) in my rig. If this 4-cable method is the bees knees then that's what I want to use. Right now with the setup I'm using I'm contrasting the guide advice for master volume settings and 1/4" out setting. Currently I can have a VERY distorted sound patch, guitar volume opened all the way and no noise, just the shush of the amps. I can't imagine I'm just doing something horribly right. So I guess what I'm really asking is can you set up like my design and compare? My patches are typical; comp, distortiin before amp model, reverb, mod after, I do put my eq right after the mixer though. I would like to know how characteristics of the hd differ. If I use the recomended settings, for power amp feed (which I use), or the 4-cable method I get a lot of noise. Once again I blame this on my lack of knowledge. Again, any advice is greatly appreciated.



Re: 4 cable method ???
by meangene31 on 2013-03-26 11:01:41

Hello one and all, I am new to this Forum and to the HD500 but I have been checking out his thread and messing with the 4CM.

I am having good luck with the 4CM as long as I maintain it to just the one amp, then using a Palmer DI or cab mic.

But I am also trying to run it stereo sending the other output to a second amp, or to the mixer or to a DI box then to the mixer. Everything I have tried aside of mono one amp I get some sort of a ground loop buzz. I have tried almost everything from lifting grounds on the amp(s), on the pa, on DI's, but I cant get anything stereo or wet/dry to work without a bad hum. In a perfect world I should actually be able to run wet/dry/wet as well I would think using this same 4CM, although I will have to call it a 5CM since we have 2 stereo outs to deal with. Any help or ideas greatly appreaciated.

Using a Fryette Ultra Lead head for the primary driving force.



Re: 4 cable method ???
by meangene31 on 2013-03-27 10:52:07

Ah never mind got it figured out last night, was a combination of ground loops from laptop being connected to the HD500 plus firwired to our mixer. The ground lift on the HD500 helped as well once I used the XLR DI outs to the mixer.

Now its quiet as a mouse, the wet/dry/wet thing didnt work out well, although it did work. Problem there was a phasing issue when dealing with panning channels at the mixer which could be eq'ed out a bit. I tried a bit of everything including L/R stereo effects but I settled on wet/dry panned hard L/R or to 3 and 9 oclock. The wet/dry seemed to have the most space while retaining a great original amp tone.

Main goal was trying to get a killer high gain stereo tone direct to the board with a silent stage, no cabs. The Palmer PGA04 works great in preserving the amps aggression. Took awhile to find the right settings but its rockin like Godzilla now.



Re: 4 cable method ???
by airguitargb on 2013-04-11 03:18:53

hi

I have a DSL 50 with HD500 and set up via 4CM.

there effects loop as a level button on rear of amp which is just a press in or out as opposed to rotate for a level. what should it be for this set up please

thanks



Re: 4 cable method ???
by jimsreynolds on 2013-04-12 03:11:00

If there is an option for -10dB then use that.  I think there is IIRC



Re: 4 cable method ???
by airguitargb on 2013-04-13 08:15:20

Jim

It doesn't say on rear or amp or in the Marshall manual what the difference is between having the send level depressed or out. I have tried both in and out while playing and there doesn't appear to be an audible change between the 2 options.

The good news is after a complete recheck through your 4cm package Jim I finally have a decent few tones. They seem good at garage volume level, lets hope that at gig level volume next time it all works

Thanks



Re: 4 cable method ???
by jimsreynolds on 2013-04-13 09:54:03

airguitargb wrote:

It doesn't say on rear or amp or in the Marshall manual what the difference is between having the send level depressed or out. I have tried both in and out while playing and there doesn't appear to be an audible change between the 2 options.

Huh yeah, the manual here certainly doesn't but the 'Low' setting is the one that you want.  There is a post here which would suggest that Low = -10dBV = Button In  ....  if you beleive Korg that is and I would have no reason not to !  You may not really notice a difference until the internal levels creep up with tweaking and it starts clipping.  Using my setup you should start to discern it on your amp's clean channel.

Otherwise, good luck and tell us how you get on.  Useful to know what amps play nice with 4CM!




The information above may not be current, and you should direct questions to the current forum or review the manual.