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POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by Vettaville-nl on 2011-11-17 11:58:33

Hi Guys,

The new update for POD HD500, POD HD Pro and POD HD (bean) V. 1.40 is available now.

Here's the rundown and link

http://www.vettaville.nl/page.php?id=145#1226

enjoy and discuss

cheers

- Hans



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by Nick_Mattocks on 2011-11-17 13:06:01

Thanks for flagging this up Hans

For the benefit of anyone interested in one of the major stars of this update, there is now enhanced MIDI control

This means that the POD HD500 and POD HD Pro now respond to incoming MIDI CC messages too.  So if you have an external MIDI controller you can program it to control the footswitches and expression pedal functions on either an HD500 or and HD Pro.  This works very well.

Take it a stage further and if you happen to have a POD HD500 and a POD HD Pro or two POD HD Pro's and an FBV Shortboard MkII, you can set one unit up as MIDI master and control both PODs from one floor based unit or FBV controller.  This works very well

So, you can run two or more POD HD's in parallel or series and by doing so you can off-load some DSP intensive stuff to the second unit, and instantly have more DSP power by using the two units to create BIG patches by having part of the 'big' patch on one unit and the other part of the 'big' patch on the second unit.

How about audio transfer between the units?  Either keep it in the digital domain if one of the units is a POD HD Pro by using S/PDIF or use analogue audio out from the master unit to the Line Inputs on the slave unit.  It works well using S/PDIF.

You can run two units in parallel and use one to supply a correctly voiced output version of the sound for PA and one to provide a correctly voiced output for an on-stage guitar amp if you want to.

The overall flexibility of the POD HD500/POD HD Pro has now taken on a 'modular' dimension as I recall someone on the forums discussing last week when they had a 'lightbulb' moment or 'revelation'.

There's other good stuff too, including:

  • Variable Input Impedance
  • Global Input Setting
  • A new Hard Gate

..... and some long awaited bug fixes

This one's a big step forward.  Thank you Line 6.

Nick



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by CIM1 on 2011-11-17 13:16:12

Any of this new controller capability work with the HD bean over USB?

Also wondering how the variable impedance works in relation to backward compatability - I am guessing the default amp model impedance (whatever that may be) corresponds to the way amp models sounded prior to the update?



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by hollis1003 on 2011-11-17 13:22:54

7 months later and no new amps?

At least they fixed some bugs and added a little value.

I would pay for more amp models but I wish there was a way to try them first.

Not complaining, but I was hoping for a little more.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by silverhead on 2011-11-17 13:26:07

I don't believe so - it's strictly with the HD500 and HD Pro. The HD Bean v1.4 release notes make no mention of this.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by Nick_Mattocks on 2011-11-17 13:32:30

CIM1 wrote:

Any of this new controller capability work with the HD bean over USB?

Also wondering how the variable impedance works in relation to backward compatability - I am guessing the default amp model impedance (whatever that may be) corresponds to the way amp models sounded prior to the update?

No.  It's only the POD HD500 and POD HD Pro.

You can manually set the Variable Input Impedance or you can leave it at Auto and it will act dependent on the first effect in the internal signal chain.  There's a section in the updated Advanced User Guide on this

Nick



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by silverhead on 2011-11-17 13:33:41

hollis1003 wrote:

..... and added a little value.

I guess that depends on personal perspective. I know a lot of users have been asking for variable input impedance, global input settings, and improved midi control. Those things are of great value to many users.

The improved midi controls, for instance, allow a current HD500 or HD Pro user to purchase a second unit and immediately double their DSP power. That fits exactly with the comments of many users that I've read in the past - that they would gladly pay twice the price for an HD1000 with dual-DSP. Here it is. (Of course, even then if you want to run 4 simultaneous amps and 16 FX you'll hit the limit again at some point. Every processor configuration has its limitations).



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by Nick_Mattocks on 2011-11-17 13:45:30

hollis1003 wrote:

7 months later and no new amps?

At least they fixed some bugs and added a little value.

I would pay for more amp models but I wish there was a way to try them first.

Not complaining, but I was hoping for a little more.

The things that have been added actually increase the flexibility of the HD500 and HD Pro a lot in terms of MIDI control and the increased ability to make the POD HD500/HD Pro part of a multi POD HD or POD HD/third party device hybrid 'modular' setup.  

An improved gate, Variable Input Impedance and Global Input selection as well as a number of minor and not so minor bug fixes.   

I reckon that's pretty good personally    Maybe amp models are part of the future roadmap - we'll just have to wait and see I guess..... 



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by hollis1003 on 2011-11-17 13:47:11

So if you can run 4 amps at once, then I guess you can use the L6 link and have each amp go to it's own DT-50 or DT-25?

I get the added value for some people.  I'm actually happy with my HD 500 the way it is.  I'm using it with my DT-50 HD and it sounds great.  These changes, for me at least, are not worth me running home to try them out, that's all. 

I really appreciate that Line 6 is making updates and improving the products.  It's just that after 7 months I was expecting something a little more earthshattering like 20 new amp models. 

I would like to add that I think that would be a nice Christmas present if it happens. I know we may get even more from Line 6.

Thank you, Line 6!



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by Nick_Mattocks on 2011-11-17 13:51:23

hollis1003 wrote:

So if you can run 4 amps at once, then I guess you can use the L6 link and have each amp go to it's own DT-50 or DT-25?

Yes - you could do that.  There's really no limit to how many POD HD Pro units you could stack up if you keep the audio path between them in the digital domain.  



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by CIM1 on 2011-11-17 13:59:13

silverhead wrote:

I don't believe so - it's strictly with the HD500 and HD Pro. The HD Bean v1.4 release notes make no mention of this.

I kinda thought not as adding MIDI controllers via USB would be a significant change which i expect they would have mentioned in release notes. By coincidence I posted an enhancement request to Line 6 only a few hours ago asking for this very thing and when I saw this thread I though my request had been answered in remarkable quick time - but no such luck!

My view is the HD bean, lacking an expression pedal input as it does (and would much rather have had than a mic input I will probably never use), really deserves midi controller capability. My old Boss GX700 had this 15 years ago so its not really pushing the envelope...



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by silverhead on 2011-11-17 14:04:08

CIM1 wrote:

...

My view is the HD bean, lacking an expression pedal input as it does...

I'm confused. The HD Bean has an FBV foot controller jack.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by TheRealZap on 2011-11-17 14:18:56

uhm... the tweak knob is essentially a built in expression pedal too... by the way....



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by CIM1 on 2011-11-17 15:48:15

silverhead wrote:

I'm confused. The HD Bean has an FBV foot controller jack.

Yes is does, but I wish it had a simple analog expression pedal input that I could plug in one of my existing pedals. I don't really want an FBV.

The HD500 by contrast has an external expression pedal input in addition to its own inbuilt pedal. My M13 also had it.

But if you want a pod HD on your desktop, there is only one external device available that can control it comprehensively and no MIDI controller implementation.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by squashpile on 2011-11-17 15:51:44

Just starting messing with this update. More trailing distortion now? Could be in my head but.. not sure. May roll back. Only tested on Studio Monitors and recording so far. Will try with FRFR ASAP.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by Metaldude on 2011-11-17 16:26:23

where can I find this manual?

Only the old manuals are on the site?

I'd love to see a manual with the updated features in it!

Thanks!



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by mdme_sadie on 2011-11-17 16:28:40

I've noticed more distortion too, I thought it was simply more digital clipping possibly introduced by the new impedence settings (the sound reminds me of the X3 :/ ) and would just need tweaking of those values, but so far that doesn't seem to have any effect (using very low output active pups to test with).  I'm also undecided as to whether I should simply roll back the update, I need to do some a/b comparisons though with both to see if it's real or whether it's just some psychoaccoustic effect.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by Nick_Mattocks on 2011-11-17 16:35:41

Metaldude wrote:

where can I find this manual?

Only the old manuals are on the site?

I'd love to see a manual with the updated features in it!

Thanks!

You are right that the POD HD (bean) and POD HD500 Advanced User Guides seem to be the version 1.3x versions, but the POD HD Pro Advanced User Guide is the version for 1.40 so in the short term you can get an idea from that.  I'll feed back that the latest manuals seem to be missing for the POD HD and POD HD500 although I suspect they will turn up in the next day or so.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by gregr on 2011-11-17 16:37:51

I just downloaded the HD500 Advanced Guide: Rev. B, v1.40.  I haven't perused it, but did see that it includes the hard gate.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by Nick_Mattocks on 2011-11-17 16:44:01

Ah good.  I literally checked them all just about 5 minutes ago and the Pro was at 1.40 but the other two were still at 1.3.  I have raised it for attention, but I guess it was in hand anyway

Nick



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by squashpile on 2011-11-17 17:25:01

I'm still working on it.. my go to j800-tread patch sounds like crap now. No input clipping.. seem like more noticeble trailing distortion. I need to spend more time with edit on existing patches maybe.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by kvines on 2011-11-17 17:45:43

I did the update and do not see the mentioned "new presets or L6Link<>DT" set list on my unit.

I told it not to keep my existing presets. Any ideas.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by zapposharkfin on 2011-11-17 17:52:36

Same here. I have tried both "Yes" and "No" several times; no new presets either way.

Also, the HD500 advanced guide is now revision B while the previous was F.. ..the HD Pro manual seems to be an updated version, though.

EDIT: Should read before write; apparently this is one of the Known issues mentioned in the release notes; The new presets are there, but the set list names are unchanged. Weird, that L6 was not able to change the set list names!!

Ref.:

  • Set List Names – If during the update process new presets are optionally loaded to over-write the previous set, Set List names may not correlate to the new presets appropriately.  This is because renaming Set Lists is not a part of the firmware update process.  Set List names may be changed in the hardware using a variety of methods
  • Manual - Set Lists may be renamed manually by simply highlighting a Set List name and pressing the Save button.  Use the four encoders beneath the main display and press Save to complete.

    The presets in firmware v1.4.0 correlate to the following Set List names, as seen in the main display from left to right, top to bottom:

    BEST OF HD
    FX HEAVY
    SONGS / STYLE
    BASS/ACO/VOC
    L6LINK <-> DT
    USER 1
    USER 2
    USER 3


Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by DeanDinosaur on 2011-11-17 17:53:55

Are we missing for HD 500 the HD Edit V1.06?  I'm still on HD Edit V1.03 and it doesn't show the New Hard gate, but I can access the Hard Gate from the HD500 Hardwarecontroll panel. Did someone forget to upload the HD edit so we can download? I don't see it in the download page. as mentioned above ^^ Also the latest manual is not there!



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by silverhead on 2011-11-17 18:20:43

You're right - looks like the Editor hasn't caught up with the firmware just yet. I would expect it very soon, but I don't know for sure.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by meambobbo on 2011-11-17 20:34:38

is it there if you turn off all effects besides the amp?  what if you roll down the "amp volume" knob?



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by mdme_sadie on 2011-11-17 20:51:24

Yes, I tend to use nearly totally dry patches anyway, just the amp.  Though it was more pronounced with my older patches where there were effects too.  Not sure what's changed, but it's almost like the signal is being compressed somehow, it's very dead and non-reactive, hard to clean up with different pick attack/volume on the guitar now, it's like the whole unit has changed.  Master no longer seems to mix back to the Pre sound either, but it acts more like a real world amp master volume actually bringing volume down to 0 rather than blending, not sure what to make of that.  Maybe it's how it should have been all along, but it seems like it's a change.

Dunno, I'll have to play some more, it's odd as I'm pretty sure L6 would have mentioned if any of that stuff had actually been changed/adjusted because it would result in pretty major changes to patches and sounds.  I really do need to go back and revert then try out some things see if it was different or if i'm just imagining things.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by spaceatl on 2011-11-17 22:10:08

I suggest you start with the new InputZ control in the input setup page...This allows you to match up the impedance of your guitar...I find that the auto setting isn't quite right for a couple of my guitars...I find if I start there I can get my guitar is a bit better shape before it hits the tone stack...I am actually finding that slightly different settings on inputZ with the same guitar has a desirable effect on particular amp models...Generally as you lower inputZ the highend is going to rolloff a bit...This is pretty nice where the treble tends to get a little harsh...This can be saved discretely on each preset if you like...Really a fundemental feature that was needed IMHO.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by mdme_sadie on 2011-11-17 22:42:07

Input Z was my first guess too, and I'll continue to play but so far changing it doesn't seem to make much of a difference for me at any setting.  It's odd as based on the release notes that's the *only* thing that's meant to have changed for my and new tones (I already set them up with just single input).

Oh well, I should probably just roll back the firmware and wait for the next update in June.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by hansvaneven on 2011-11-18 01:04:09

Shit ... (sorry guys, won't be 100% happy until we have a real EQ and some more FX amp models in there for the record of it, quite a lot of people have asked this since day one)

- input update (this is cool)

- midi improvements (cool too, but don't use it so)

- presets ???? (what a joke, who uses presets here ?)

- hard gate (huh? come on, why release a lemon when people cry for apples ?)

Hope next firmware won't be 6 months away ....

Cheers,

Hans



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by Sean_Clarke on 2011-11-18 02:12:49

I disagree, the update is exactly what I wanted.

1- No point working on anything until the basic input issues were resolved, getting the best transfer of tone and getting rid of noise from 'input 2' etc. were the priority. You get a good tone in before you mess with it, this gives you a better chance and makes it easier to do it.

2 - Presets ARE important, I have a bass and DT-25, can't wait to dive in - I learn from presets. Also, presets sell units to NEW users, more new users = longer shelf life and more developement, its good business and good for current users. There is nothing wrong with using presets, if you find the sound you like then happy days, less time tweeking, more time playing!

I have had my HD500 since it came out, haven't even scrathced the surface yet, I am overwelmed with amps, effects and options- I doin't know where youn guys get the time that want more! I'm realy not getting the EQ thing either- I either record at home and EQ in my DAW or into a PA with an EQ to get the 'room' sound- Its an amp sim and fx pedal sim, now people want it to be a mixing desk

From me - 100% THUMBS UP for this update, no reservations; 2 big updates that add amps, fx and new tools (not just fix bugs) is far more than other hardware manufacturers do.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by hansvaneven on 2011-11-18 02:26:24

Hi Sean, with all respect, seem that we don't have the same use of the HD .... if you like your HD as it is, that's cool, I don't think asking for a good EQ is wanting it to be a mixing desk.

I use the HD for recording + live (into PA box). For recording I just use the dry models and use fx afterwards, so no problem there, BUT in live i really have a problem with the EQ's and a hard time to finetweak the models so they sound the same as on my recordings.

Maybe presets sell the units, but sincerelly after 28 years of playing guitar, I just want to dial in the sound I have in my head, no need for presets, but I agree they can be a good starting point for some people but that's not priority for me.

And about the amps, I used the JC120 model quite a lot before and really mis it for my Jazz gigs, I made another one with the tweed B-man pre, but it doesn't sound as good, so no, even if I mostly use the Bogner, Elektric, tweed, Marschall and Treadplate, the unit really needs a good model for Jazz.

Cheers,

Hans



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by CIM1 on 2011-11-18 03:07:18

Just a guess but I would imagine that adding an additional dedicated EQ stage would require a significant chunk of extra DSP?

I am a new HD bean user but have already found that a simple dual amp + spring reverb patch uses so much DSP that I can't add a single tubescreamer in front of the amp pair before the DSP limit is reached. That really surprised me.

Perhaps there is a little bit of spare DSP kept in reserve for updates/safety margin etc but presumably L6 can't add anything that would compromise existing patches so options may be limited?

I guess the new pickup loading facility is comparable to adding an EQ stage (I presume they don't actualy change the physical imput impedance?) - but the HD design is presumably DSP limited in how much extra they can add without compromising what is already available?

Footnote - parhaps L6 should consider adding a DSP allocated meter or bargraph to HD Edit so we can see how near to the limit we are when creating patches. I think that would be very helpful.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by hansvaneven on 2011-11-18 03:13:48

Hi CIM1, I don't think making a good parametric EQ would use more DSP, they could for example go for a 2-3 band fully parametric so people can use one or two if needed ...

I think I may completely give up hopes for better EQ and buy a TC Electronic Fireworx (or G-System) for better EQ, DYN and timebased FX, so I can actually obtain the same sound live as in my studio and just use the HD for amp models and some basic pre amp FX like wah, phaser etc ... I just saw that a used Fireworx unit is around 400€ and it has pro digital AEB, Optical, SPDIF in/out as well, which can be usefull when connecting to a digital mixer live ...

Cheers,

Hans



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by Sean_Clarke on 2011-11-18 03:15:36

If your PA doesnt have EQ, I highly reccomend getting a little EQ Pedal (BOSS GE7) as they have very guitar friendly F, they go for under 40 quid on ebay. ART EQ-351 (31 band) rackmount go for 80 quid new...

Sure, Line 6 could model one, but they don't 'have to' (it wasn't an advertsed feature!) and it may take a while...also it will eat a DSP slot for a fairly basic effect.

IMHO, you shouldn't need to EQ a good tone, the shape and sound of what comes out of the amp can pretty much be dialed in at the amp, I'm not saying you can get that tone out of the HD500 witout and EQ stage, I'm just saying you shouldn't have to I'm playing with the update now with my DT25 and I like what I hear 'out of the amp', but I have never pluged in directly to a PA (without going through a mixing desk with EQ) so I can't comment on the sound that comes out- you could be trying to compensate for the PA or the room; try borrowing a multiband EQ  and see (a) If an EQ fixes the sound and (b) how many bands/much tweeking was required?

PS- Don't get me wrong, I would also like to see more FX, clean amps, accustic amps, bass amps, who wouldn't :-) It is also interesting that this thing could drift towards being a more convential 'general purpose' effects unit for use with DAWS...



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by CIM1 on 2011-11-18 03:24:47

Hi Hans - I can't see how L6 can implement a dedicated EQ without using some dedicated DSP - a parametric EQ is not one of the most intensive DSP hogs when used in a patch but certainly would need some. Who knows what is available in reserve other than the L6 designers!



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by spaceatl on 2011-11-18 05:05:34

+1

I am a huge fan of the Mid focus...It seems to be full bandwidth....It's a bandpass, but just about any curve can be obtained...It's sorta like a Pultec and it's the most powerful one of the bunch...But a two sided bandpass approach is a bit more difficult to get your head around...At leanst in terms of a mastering approach where a smooth response curve is the goal...

The lack of frequencies does make it a little strange to use the EQs and I hope they get those labeling issues people have worked in at some point...but I honsetly found with the HD I need far less corrective EQ as compared to the XT generation...



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by DeanDinosaur on 2011-11-18 05:35:37

I'm guessing there will be another update within the next couple of months to address the EQ and other requests going by how 1.3 was a major upgrade that was preceded by an upgrade to HD500 only,  meanwhile the 300 and 400 didn't get that update. Now the 300 and 400 didn't get the 1.4 so maybe 1.41 will be for everyone hopefully right around Xmas.

This upgrade seems to be to quiet down some of the complaining about the update situation, it's like throwing a bone before your give your dog  his big meal

Let's be realistic the input impedence was probably implimented to be "auto" in Frimware 1.3 and if not the default was propably 1mg which is  suitable for 99% of patches that don't begin with a WA or a fuzz pedal but it certainely adds to the flexibility. I tried it out and I can sense a dramatic difference in the feel of some of my patches by going from 1m to something else. So it does effect the response and feel and you can sense it with your fingers, but I bet the listeners wouldn't hear much difference. So this great for everyone specially those who like low to mid gain sounds.  For the highgainer you get the hard gate, so now you can max out gain and the new gate will clean up the noise much more efficiently.

Overall this is a nice update, but it just seems that it's part of a bigger thing that's yet to come, and if that's not the case and we don't get the EQ or whatever else, still, the HD500 is one of the best tone Machines outhere. As much as I like an updated EQ, I've learned to work around that (Just manage the bass frequencies and you're golden, even if it means setting the amp bass to Zero on many amps and on top of that use a low shelf from the Shift EQ, it's not like it hasn't been done with real world amps after  recording them  with a mic. To me I view that as authenticity of the models because to get a decent recorded sounds VIA mics from most real amps, the bass is set very low and a high pass or low cut is applied).



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by meambobbo on 2011-11-18 06:33:57

As much as I like an updated EQ, I've learned to work around that (Just manage the bass frequencies and you're golden, even if it means setting the amp bass to Zero on many amps and on top of that use a low shelf from the Shift EQ, it's not like it hasn't been done with real world amps after  recording them  with a mic. To me I view that as authenticity of the models because to get a decent recorded sounds VIA mics from most real amps, the bass is set very low and a high pass or low cut is applied).

If the unit wasn't so DSP and effect slot limited, I would agree with you.  Ultimately, I want to EQ my tone, so I got my "brown sound", then add effects.  When I've EQ'ed the tone to the point where I want, I often run out of either effects blocks or DSP.  If the cab/mic emulation included an EQ'ed tone that got the sound a lot closer to ideal, this would partially resolve the issue.  Also, if there were stronger EQ effects, we could use less of them (although each effect would likely be more DSP-intensive - on net I'd dedicate less DSP/blocks to EQ though).

Try the Recto amp with XXL 4x12 cab.  Even with the SM 57 on axis, you need to fine tune the low end being turning the bass to 0, even if you turn up the other controls.  There's a HUGE ~140HZ hump you have to kill to get a usuable sound.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by meambobbo on 2011-11-18 06:36:57

Are you testing this on low, mid, or high gain tones?  Also would you describe your guitars as dark or bright sounding?  Are you using new strings?

I'm asking all this because if you're not hearing a difference in tone, maybe your update was corrupted and you should try to reinstall?



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by SyntheticChild on 2011-11-18 06:40:01

What exactly should I be listening for when using the different InputZ? I use mainly high gain patches.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by meambobbo on 2011-11-18 06:56:17

from what i've gathered, it should affect high end frequency rolloff and less significantly the overall volume.

for high gain patches, this will change the overall feel/tone of the distortion.  different amps/distortion types respond differently to high end.  For some ends, a lack of high end makes the distortion sound fuzzier or muddier.  For some it smooths the distortion out or makes it less dirty.  Conversely, raising the high end will make some amps have a more saturated, harmonically rich distortion, while for other amps, it creates a dirty, crackly breakup in the high end.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by gregr on 2011-11-18 09:12:26

Sean_Clarke wrote:

I have had my HD500 since it came out, haven't even scrathced the surface yet, I am overwelmed with amps, effects and options- I doin't know where youn guys get the time that want more! I'm realy not getting the EQ thing either- I either record at home and EQ in my DAW or into a PA with an EQ to get the 'room' sound- Its an amp sim and fx pedal sim, now people want it to be a mixing desk

Some of us old farts have had experience with many of the amps and effects being modeled and have tried and/or owned others which we would like to see represented.  Speaking only for myself, I have little to no use for many of the effects present, so there is no sense diving into their options.  On the other hand, Line 6 has turned its back on literally a 15 year period of high-gain tone with the exception of the Treadplate which doesn't do much for those of us who aren't into the Nickleback sound.

Regarding the EQ comment.  I am not the least bit interested in a mixing desk.  I rehearse and play live through a real guitar amp, depending on the HD500 to serve as a preamp w/MFX.  The only way I've found to get a decent tone (for me, you know, the one in my head?) with the paltry offering of high-gain models is to EQ them.

I'm happy that you're happy with what you have, but please don't pretend to assume things about people with whom you don't seem to agree.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by gregr on 2011-11-18 09:15:46

Sean_Clarke wrote:

(it wasn't an advertsed feature!)

Are you sure about this?!?

Graphic EQ

Inspired by* graphic eq pedals such as the MXR® ten band graphic equalizer which

became an integral part of the live rig of Randy Rhoads.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by DeanDinosaur on 2011-11-18 09:15:58

Hi values will give brighter sound and lower values will give darker sounds, but it does change the way your fingers feel as it's not just rolling off the hi or low Frequencies like an EQ.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by gregr on 2011-11-18 09:18:52

DeanDinosaur wrote:


Let's be realistic the input impedence was probably implimented to be "auto" in Frimware 1.3 and if not the default was propably 1mg which is  suitable for 99% of patches that don't begin with a WA or a fuzz pedal but it certainely adds to the flexibility.

So I take it "auto" is for the amp selected regardless of whether the guitar first feeds something else like a wah?  What about dual-amps with different input impedances, do each of them get the proper impedance or does one take priority over the other?



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by phil_m on 2011-11-18 09:24:46

I've kind of wondered if Line 6 hasn't put more focus on the vintage amp selection simply because that seems to be the way the musical landscape is at the moment. Are there any really popular heavy bands right now? The bands that are selling albums aren't really playing through Soldanos, Mesas, or even Marshalls right now. The state of rock is a little bit different than when the POD was originally released.

I've always thought it an odd sort of paradox that so many guitarists invest so much time, money, and energy in producing music that the majority of the population doesn't listen to. Classic rock will always have an audience, but I've always thought it sort of odd that guitarists look so much to people like Dream Theater or Malmsteen for inspiration when outside of guitarist circles (and maybe Eastern Europe...) a lot of people haven't even heard of them.

I'm not trying to put down anyone or what they play or listen to, btw. It's just something I've noticed.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by DeanDinosaur on 2011-11-18 09:28:49

I think I'm in agreement with you regarding EQ, but I think line 6 probably made it so those who've never used an EQ and don't have experience with with Q, peak, Shelve etc will find it easier to use the EQs provided. Let's be honest that's probably the majority of many people who play guitar (excluding prfessionals). I think it becomes clear when you see the compressors provided by line 6, only two paramters! For compressors it works for most guitar players, but those who know how to use a parametric EQ, it's simply horrible. Now I'm supposed to unlearn everything I've learned about EQ just so I can use an EQ intended for the general masses. FThe solution for now is for recording I use plugins and for live use I tame the lows with the Provided EQs.

One thing I should mention that you might want to try is the  QFilter from the Fitler group of effects.  It has very nice hi and low filters that completely transform your sound.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by DeanDinosaur on 2011-11-18 09:42:06

My understanding is that all guitar amps have 1mg impedence, so dual amps would probably mean that both amps have whatever impedence you choose.

The Key thing to remember is what is your first prcessor in the signal chain. If your chain begins with an amp, then 1mg should be the standard. IF it begins with a Fuzz or wah pedal then 1mg woudn't do. Wah pedal have input impedence between 70k and 90k. Fuzz pedals are really lower usually something like 20k. So for authenticity if you Fuzz pedal is your first effect then you set for 22k  and if Wah is first you set for 70 or 90.

Most effect pedal are 1 M ohm just like amplifiers, there's always exception and it can be a matter of taste now that you can change and see if you like the other options.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by gregr on 2011-11-18 09:42:52

I'm afraid you're right, Phil.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by gregr on 2011-11-18 09:46:11

DeanDinosaur wrote:

IF it begins with a Fuzz or wah pedal. Wah pedal have input impedence between 70k and 90k. Fuzz pedals are really lower usually something like 20k. So for authenticity if you Fuzz pedal is your first effect then you set for 22k  and if Wah is first you set for 70 or 90.

Yep, I know all that, thanks (though I don't know that every amp modeled has a 1M input impedance ).

My main question, however, was whether "auto" would choose the proper impedance for the first thing in the chain if it wasn't an amp.

EDIT: The manual and release notes make it pretty clear that the answer is yes; if I had only read carefully enough the first time around...



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by DeanDinosaur on 2011-11-18 10:01:01

Well I would hope it does, but unfortunatley there's no way of finding out for sure. If it doesn't then that would be a bug or an issue in my book. It can't just be 1m for everything.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by hansvaneven on 2011-11-18 11:40:02

Hi Sean,

I actually would like to setup my HD500 so it sounds exactly or close to my sounds recorded and sculpted with an EQ and some dynamics (so the PA guy can just use the signal from my HD and do few changes, this way i'd have the same sound on scene (I use a PA box for monitoring instead of a guitar amp) and in front of audience. I often roll off hi freqs, to get warmer sounds, and for that a good high shelv or low pass filter does wonders, or add a little more highs for some metal sounds (in most cases I cut freqs rather then boosting them anyway) but I'd like to do that before the delay, reverb section, and also would like to stay in digital domain as long as possible (keep in mind that today most mixing consoles are digital so you'd have a few AD/DA conversions before you hit the PA's and believe me, you can hear the difference after a few AD/DA's in a sound, freqs start to act strange ... at least I tested that with a 4 cable setup (= double AD/DA conversion) in the past and went back to normal because of this) . The solution you suggest would need to use the fx loop for the extra EQ, but then you would degrade your sound with an extra DA/AD conversion as the FX loops is analog I/O only.

For me the best solution finally will be to buy a rack like the Fireworkx from TC or G-system, which can be found for 400€ used, and then couple it with the spdif I/O and sculp my sound this way.

The reason I wouldn't do the extra sculpting using the mixing desk EQ's is that I'd want to have different EQ's depending on the different patches so either a good EQ in the HD500 or an external programmable unit with digital I/O would do the trick, and I think that's what I'm going to do now, so at least you'll hear me whine less often here

Cheers,

Hans



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by meambobbo on 2011-11-18 11:54:08

Crazy - I didn't even think about all that.  I always run my setup as Guitar > Morley Wah > Pod HD500.  So I wonder if the tone is different if I go Guitar > Pod HD500...



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by naruto177 on 2011-11-18 12:07:59

I installed 1.4 with line 6 monkey but POD still says updating flash but when I restart since HD edit ask for restart for POD to detect it. I dont get update. No , new song list for me and cant find hard gate. I tried about 4 times and so far Im letting POD update flash even though its done on Line 6 monkey but POD says upadting flash for about 8 min now and still continuing.

What should i do?



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by gregr on 2011-11-18 12:08:49

hansvaneven wrote:

believe me, you can hear the difference after a few AD/DA's in a sound

Unless you're conducting properly controlled double-blind experiments, I don't feel all that inclined to believe you, sorry.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by phil_m on 2011-11-18 12:13:57

Regarding the difference in tone you're talking about with the 4CM, the converters could play some role in what you're hearing, but it could be other factors as well. It could be a buffer in your amps loop reacting with the FX return, for instance. All I'm saying is it's hard to isolate these things down to a single factor when there's so many variables at play.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by mdme_sadie on 2011-11-18 12:17:23

The guitars I use are a Parker P-38 with active pickups (though theyr'e very quiet), basically it's a super strat configuration - single coils at neck and middle, humbucker at bridge and piezo in the bridge itself.  The other is a Gibson Les Paul Standard 2008 model, this of course has the so called PAF pickups which are much louder and it has to be said richer and more complex sounding.  Together they cover a lot of ground from dark to bright.

The tones I use vary, but I tended to use mostly dry amp only patches and the bassman and twin the most, with some uses of the park, gibtone, deluxe and bogner (and very rarely the treadplate) all with their brighter channels, as I find these are the most reactive of the amp sims.  After the update they all feel totally dead, especially the park feels like a blanket has been pulled over the speaker and rolling back the volume pot on the guitar results in no clean up all the way till the last 10th now (it's like the signal is being compressed before going into it), strangely having said that the sustain also seems to be gone, it just heads out into clipping fizz and then drops off fast.   As mentioned the master volume no longer blends between pre and master the same was as before either for me, so I can't use it to simply balance and then use the main volume.

It's very possible that the update was corrupted, but it's been the same both times I've updated (I reverted and then re-updated on the assumption that something must be wrong).  I guess I could try once again to see what happens.  But right now the 1.4 update more or less has killed the "HD" ness (if there is such a thing) of my HD500, it's like i've reverted back to an X3.  I'm wondering also if maybe the added processing required for the input impedence calculation is perhaps adding a small amount of latency, because the change in feel seems so extreme and yet allegedly nothing has changed apart from this input impedence.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by meambobbo on 2011-11-18 12:22:06

I don't think so.  Line 6 is making a product for guitarists, and if guitarists want to sound like Petrucci and Vai rather than Nickelback and Coldplay, Line 6 should make a device that helps guitarists get the Petrucci/Vai tones if they want to sell units.

If Line 6, on the other hand, was marketing their goods mainly towards high-end studios and audio engineers and record companies, then yes, i could see your point.  But I definitely don't think Line 6 is saying, "Hey you guitarists should like more vintage-type tones because that's what sells albums!"

Another thing is that with the internet and all this non-broadcast distribution, publishing diverse music is much easier and musical tastes are getting more and more varied, and you can be "successful" without being appealing whatsoever to more than 10% of the population.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by phil_m on 2011-11-18 12:29:21

That's the thing. I don't think most guitarists want to sound like Vai or Petrucci anymore. Sure there's some out there, but I have a hard time believing shredders represent the majority of guitarists. I'm a guitarist and I've never wanted to sound like Vai or Petrucci. Their music bores me to be honest with you.

What I see as far as bands playing the clubs and bars and whatnot is a lot of guys with vintage or reissue Fender amps (or boutique Fender clones) and vintage, boutique, or pseudo-boutique pedals. You do see multi-FX sometimes, but not all that often.

I just think at the moment, the era of the shredder is in decline.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by gregr on 2011-11-18 12:42:19

Without going into labeling or assuming that my style of playing represents or does not represent the majority of guitar players, I see absolutely no waning in either the street prices or demand of the gear that Line 6 has not modeled in their HD line.

I've probably said it before, but I am of the belief that the majority of people who seek "boutique" and/or "vintage" gear are not the least bit interested in digital modelers.  Of those who would go so far as to demo one, how many will decide they don't like them based on either expectation bias or legitimate reasons?  My guess is the majority of them as well.  Of the rest of the market of guitar players, who does this leave?  Are high-gain users more or less likely to represent a greater share of what is left over?



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by phil_m on 2011-11-18 12:50:12

I'm not trying to make an argument for or against what Line 6 should do, really. My original comment simply an observation as to what led them to choose what they modeled first. Honestly, I'd be surprised if the amp selection doesn't increase in the future. I'm not trying to belittle anyone. Although, I do think that most people who listen to shredders are guitarists themselves anymore. It's just an observation.

Personally, I'll take Coldplay over Vai or Petrucci just about any day of the week...



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by meambobbo on 2011-11-18 13:14:38

Personally, I'll take Coldplay over Vai or Petrucci just about any day of the week...

x 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ^ 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Anyway,

I think Line 6 has the right approach - they are trying to appeal to a wide variety of groups.  of course each group is going to come in here and say, "They should have more of A & B amps - I don't even care if they got rid of amp X, Y or Z".

And what I'm 99% sure is going to end up happening is that Line 6 is going to release 3 amp packs and you'll have to pay for them, like they did previously.  I'm fine with that...so long as I get at least 4 more amps and they all sound as good as the ones currently in the unit.  I thought the amps in the metal pack for the XT/X3 sounded far better than the standard high-gain amps, so hopefully that trend continues.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by gregr on 2011-11-18 13:18:06

Did X3 Live users have to pay for expansion packs?



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by spaceatl on 2011-11-18 13:21:02

No, it was the final product of the X hardware....You paid for them in XT....X3 came next and all was included as I recall...



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by phil_m on 2011-11-18 13:21:46

There weren't any model packs for the X3. Really, the X3 series was an extension/conclusion of the XT series. The X3 included all the model packs that were ever made for the XT plus eventually a few extra freebies.

There were 4 model packs for the XT during its life cycle - the Collector's Classics, the Metal Pack, FX Junkie, and the Bass Pack.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by meambobbo on 2011-11-18 13:59:58

sorry if i confused anyone - I bought the metal pack for my XT, and never really realized that it was included for everyone on the X3...

I wonder how the XT model pack sales compared to the X3 sales - I wonder if free amp upgrades are a better business model...



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by DeanDinosaur on 2011-11-18 14:40:41

You should be fine.

My understanding is  the output impedence of wah pedal usually is very low close to 20k, which means that if you connect it to a device with higher impedence like a guitar amp that has more than 10 times the impedence delivered by the Wah, you should have a good connection that allows for maximum voltage transfer and no loss of signal quality. So when your HD is set at 1m it would be more than 10 times which is perfect going throught the wah.

I think if you're guitar is going through the wah , you probably shouldn't touch this feature at all unless you want ot experiment. Since the out of the wah is so low, it's a non issue to connect low impedence to higher impedence, the problem woudl be if you go from Hi to Low.




Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by gregr on 2011-11-18 16:07:43

If you're trying to say that having a high input impedance on a wah is necessarily a good thing, I'll have to disagree.

This is not to say that I think a wah, when bypassed should continue to present a low input impedance.

Here's a decent link for those wanting a bit more detail on the phenomena:

http://community.avid.com/blogs/avid/archive/2010/04/06/the-truth-about-true-z.aspx



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by DeanDinosaur on 2011-11-18 17:25:27

I guess my post wasn't clear. All I was saying that the output impedence of the wah  are very low that it's  a non issue hiting the POD HD inputs specially that we now know that they're actually Hi Z  and for that matter most effect pedals have very low output impedence and with HD Hi Z, the HD will take pedals very well.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by DeanDinosaur on 2011-11-18 18:43:32

Just looked at the HD manual not the 500 as it's not available yet and there's a table for the values of impedence when set to auto. I did note that noise gate is 1m, which means that for all those using the gate as first in the signal chain, this new feature is really irrelevant unless you want to experiment. So if you use gate in your signal chain as your first processor in the chain,  then you've had it right from the begening before the update. Don't get me wrong, I love this update and as I was messing with it, I'm discovering so much wonderful tones by removing the gate from the begining and putting a fuzz instead or whatever else. Obviously the clean to brakeup, you will get so much difference in the feel, that it's trully amazing.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by gregr on 2011-11-18 18:53:48

The latest and greatest HD500 Advanced Guide can be found here.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by DeanDinosaur on 2011-11-18 19:22:05

Thanks, but I don't think that's the latest! It doesn't list the hard gate or the table for input impedence!



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by gregr on 2011-11-18 21:14:50

The input impedance table begins on 2.5, the hard gate is listed at the top of the table on 7.1.

I downloaded this thing yesterday, though I looked up the information for this post using the exact link I provided in my previous post.

Perhaps the problem is on your end?



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by maqaf1 on 2011-11-18 21:24:58

gregr wrote:

The input impedance table begins on 2.5, the hard gate is listed at the top of the table on 7.1.

I downloaded this thing yesterday, though I looked up the information for this post using the exact link I provided in my previous post.

Perhaps the problem is on your end?

I'm with Dean on this. It doesn't seem to be the latest, not sure why.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by spaceatl on 2011-11-18 22:19:24

That's wierd...I clicked gregr's link now and I see the hard gate and inputZ tables listed...



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by maqaf1 on 2011-11-18 23:08:43

spaceatl wrote:

That's wierd...I clicked gregr's link now and I see the hard gate and inputZ tables listed...

Still a no show here. This is the version I'm getting: POD HD500 Advanced Guide (Rev B)



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by DeanDinosaur on 2011-11-19 03:50:35

Are you also able to download HD EDIT V1.06 as mentioned in the firmware note? Because I still don't see that either in the software download page. Maybe you have a special link for seniority




Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by DeanDinosaur on 2011-11-19 04:56:26

The lack of frequencies does make it a little strange to use the EQs and I hope they get those labeling issues people have worked in at some point...but I honsetly found with the HD I need far less corrective EQ as compared to the XT generation...

I'm honestly puzzled why Line 6 didn't provide the EQ they provided in the XT and X3 series. It was one EQ but with it you can do much more than you can do with all the EQs in the HD combined exept to cater to those who've never used a parmatertric EQ before!

I agree with you on the fact that HD models need less EQ compared with XT, but once you need an EQ, with the EQs provided, it's like pulling teeth! One single EQ that the Xt and X3, pod farm have, can do what all the EQs provided can't do even if you dedicate 4 slots for the various EQs provided in HD in a single patch, because it becomes extremely difficult to manage what's going on, yet individually all these EQs are no where near the power and flexibility fo the XT, Pod Farm style EQ.    I have no issue providing new concept EQ to help those who don't use paramteric EQ, but to abandon those who actually know how to harness the power in a paramteric EQ is a step backward.

IF the XT, X3  style EQ was provided with the HD and I'm not even talking about it being Global! Just that simple identical EQ that would occupy an effect slot, I doubt that anyone would complain about EQ; and why would they,!you can practically draw any curve with that EQ. I would have thought that adding controll over the Q of the previous XT EQ would mean advancement to EQ, but these EQs in the HD are not what you would expect to find in a device intended to be a direct recording solution. If I told you I need to put a High pass filter at 70HZ to get rid of offending low end, if you have the XT, you can do that in seconds. In the HD, you really can't do that (unless you dig out in this message board and find some table made by some dedicated user). I love these guys at line 6, but in all due honesty they dropped the ball on this EQ. It makes me wonder if they actaully received so many complaints  about the EQ in the XT that they had to change it! I thought everyone was happy with that EQ and was hoping we'd get controll over Q, but not this! Mid Focus is great and so are the rest of the HD EQS, they sound great but there's no precision or controll over what you're doing with them.

The situation is similar to having a swiss army knife taken a way from you and instead you're given a tool box, and in it you find  big shiny new tools that are inidividually wrapped inside their own little boxes that have their own little keys , you're given one key to open up the big tool box but the little ones are still at the factory!



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by gregr on 2011-11-19 05:12:59

maqaf1 wrote:

Still a no show here. This is the version I'm getting: POD HD500 Advanced Guide (Rev B)

As this appears to be the correct version, did you actually check the two pages I listed?

The internal title of the document I linked is "Line 6 POD® HD500 Advanced Guide (Rev. B, v1.40, English)".  The previous one was Rev. F, v1.30.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by daferalo on 2011-11-19 06:40:04

Hey guys, Have I read O.K or my eyes are in troubles? the input impedance only applies for "guitar in" input option as I saw in the manual, not variax? So for those like me who have a JTV, is it transparent?

Thanks.

Daf



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by silverhead on 2011-11-19 06:58:20

I'm not sure but I expect input impedance does not apply to the Variax input because it is digital.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by Sean_Clarke on 2011-11-19 08:21:48

The set lists don't update the titles, so it looks the same, have you been through the patches?



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by maqaf1 on 2011-11-19 09:52:03

gregr wrote:

maqaf1 wrote:

Still a no show here. This is the version I'm getting: POD HD500 Advanced Guide (Rev B)

As this appears to be the correct version, did you actually check the two pages I listed?

The internal title of the document I linked is "Line 6 POD® HD500 Advanced Guide (Rev. B, v1.40, English)".  The previous one was Rev. F, v1.30.

Gregr, yes I've checked those pages.

The downloaded file says Rev B, but when I open it, it's labeled Rev F V1.30, Rev F. See below. I have the acrobat reader and the download folder open

  I'm not ruling out an issue on my end.  There's something bizarre going on here.

PODV140.jpg



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by gregr on 2011-11-19 10:01:58

silverhead wrote:

I'm not sure but I expect input impedance does not apply to the Variax input because it is digital.

That may be, but I see little reason why this needs to be the case, considering that this is a simulation in software rather than something realized in physical hardware.  I can check again, but the response is exactly the same whether I use a guitar with active pickups or one with passive pickups, each having a significanly different output impedance from the other.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by spaceatl on 2011-11-19 10:41:56

My impression is that this is NOT a simulation in terms of the analog guitar in on the HD Bean...My ears tell me that also....An active guitar is not going to load against the input because those will have a buffered output preamp that will keep the bandwidth linear...I don't have any active guitars other than my bass guitar...But I am getting very discernable differences in changing this with the 4 guitars I have now....

It would seem that the Vax analog output would be affected, but I could see how the modeling output might be simulated...so in the words of Forrest Gump, "...what if it's both...happening at the same time?"

I suppose the only way to really know would be to open it up and take a peak...Seems those resistors would be easy to spot...

Variable Input Impedance - This feature affects tone and feel because the guitar’s pickups are being “loaded” as they would be by an effect pedal or a tube amplifier. There are eight selectable options which can change the analog circuitry affecting the impedance of the Guitar Input. The options include seven discrete resistor values: 22k, 32k, 70k, 90k, 230k, 1M, 3.5M. There is also an Auto setting. When set to Auto the input impedance can automatically change depending on which amp or effect model is first in the signal chain of the current preset. Impedance settings are saved as part of each preset's input selection.




Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by gregr on 2011-11-19 10:54:38

Did you somehow miss the part where I stated the response is the same (as in equally effective through the range of values) whether I use active or passive pickups?  Do you have an explanation why this is, seeing that the output impeadance is an order of magnitue less than passive pickups?

The quote is cute and all, but I simply don't believe it.  To me it is not unlike Line 6 documentation saying the supply voltage is raised on the Plexi model to get the "brown" sound, which of course is exactly the opposite of what happens when there is a brown-out, from which the name was derived.  You would think people from L.A. would know the difference.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by daferalo on 2011-11-19 11:08:38

Also, what about if one want to use variax ch 2 (the mag pups) on the HD 500? Those are "real" pickups, but from manual user it seems that if you use the JTV through the VDI connection, then guitar impedance options would not affect the tone. I cannot probe by myself at this moment, but could someone knows for sure if that is true?



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by spaceatl on 2011-11-19 11:51:05

fair enough...

I am confused as to why the response would change on an active guitar in the same way as a passive guitar...buffers should not be doing that the same way since it is usually inherent in thier design to keep the bandwidth consistent with varying impedence...Seems like it "should be" less effective on an active guitar...But I have not heard that for myself...It was the reason I responded...

I don't have an explanation...I will open my bean and find out...Mainly because I am starting think there might be some caps mixed in there...That's the only way I can think that the high end would attenuate on your active guitar...Or...it's a simulation...

I just wonder why you think Line 6 would intentionally mislead...It's a fairly subtle feature to most people and I can't see why they would...Not trying to pick at you or anything...I can see why you have arrived at the conclusion you have....just wondering...



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by gregr on 2011-11-19 12:00:23

I don't think they're intentionally misleading, I think it could simply be a disconect between engineering and the team responsible for realeasing the description.  It could simply have been an oversight in ommiting the words "as if" or something to that effect, or some other innocent explanation.  Of couse I could simply be wrong and that there is a reasonable explanation as to why my EMG 81 is behaving much like a passive pickup.

When you open your bean, do you expect to find discrete resistors and the logic to switch them?  If so, will you wonder why they weren't put to use until this latest version of firmware?  I mean the Line 6 Monkey didn't jump out of your computer and start soldering when you ran the update.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by spaceatl on 2011-11-19 12:21:45

gregr wrote:

I don't think they're intentionally misleading, I think it could simply a disconect between engineering and the team responsible for realeasing the description.  It could simply have been an oversight in ommiting the words "as if" or something to that effect.

When you open your bean, do you expect to find seven discrete resistors?  If so, will you wonder why they weren't put to use until this latest version of firmware?  I mean the Line 6 Monkey didn't jump out of your computer and start soldering when you ran the update.

Yes, I do fully expect to find that...my old eyes will need the mag as I suspect they are surface mounted...and very tiny...

Have you ever developed hardware, firmware or software professionally? I am honestly curious about that....

Your "Soldering Monkey" comment leads me to believe you have not...But that is a halarious image,,,



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by gregr on 2011-11-19 12:30:01

Yes, besides simply having a BSEE from a university, I have developed hardware professionally as a design engineer (RF as well as baseband analog) and as a project engineer I have being intimately involved with seeing electronic products go from a napkin to mass production, some of which have included those that are DSP-based.

You do realize that I was referring to this little guy, right?

<a target=new href=http://fret-time.com/images/upload/1177350410line6monkey.jpg" class="jive-image" src="http://fret-time.com/images/upload/1177350410line6monkey.jpg"/>

If he can swing a cord, I suppose he could work under a stereoscope with tweezers and a soldering iron.

FWIW, I am a damn good at soldering 0402 components.  Now no one has ever suggested I was a monkey, but there's a first time for everything.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by jimsreynolds on 2011-11-19 13:26:48

Greg

I get the 1.30 firmware version off your link too.  Intriguingly I get the external windows (NTFS) file name with 'Revision B' in the title though the Document Properties and the file title within the PDFis called 'revision F'.

Almost like someone had made a hasty replacement of one file with another at the server end.  Perhaps some of the content in the latest version needed amending for some reason ...

In days to come, your version of the file will be known as Advanced manual 1.40 classic .



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by spaceatl on 2011-11-19 14:00:27

Not my intention to suggest you were a monkey, just the image your post invoked for me of a monkey taking the POD apart and soldering it as part of the update was funny to me...

Yep, blue jumpsuit and red hat...only holding an iron instead of a 1/4 plug...spot on...




Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by litesnsirens on 2011-11-19 15:25:38

I have to say the new acoustic patches have a few gems in there.  They sound great with my JTV through my Bose L1.  I'm not going to be running to a separated channel on the Bose anymore.  Good Job Line 6.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by naruto177 on 2011-11-19 16:25:53

Thank you. Finished talking to Line 6 tech on phone and said they havent got 1.6 i think the new HD edit yet and set list not renamed yet but all there. Thank you very much!!



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by Sean_Clarke on 2011-11-20 02:20:17

Hello Gregor - I want trying to make assumptions, just balance the argument; for every person who wants some new feature, someone else would prefer the development time on something else.  I could never get a sound I liked with my Blackstar and HD (4 cable), just gave up! Have the sound I want know for live with the DT25. Other people are tweaking tone with cab/mike combinations or even using the modulation filters, so I guess getting a good tone from a none DT Amp is more difficult.

Getting the sound in your head is the holy grail, I am a 45 year old crusty and haven't managed it yet!



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by hansvaneven on 2011-11-20 04:28:13

Well, you don't need to believe me , really but I did quite some tests with my Randall and Blackstar tube amps and some multi FX including the L6  X3 live and a Boss GT10, and each time I inserted the Randall preamp using the 4 CM I really heard differences, mostly some frequencies acting strange like bass freq's that had much less definition, not sure it was just buffer related, but when you do several AD/DA conversions, there is a degradation in sound, so if you're happy with a 4CM, that's cool, but I'm not convinced and certainly wouldn't recommand it  ...



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by DrFix on 2011-11-20 08:34:10

Sorry but I don't understand very well ho input impedance works: is it a simulation or is it a real physical impedance change?

Does it affect how my pickups work (like a power from the unit to my pickups) or it's just a setting which I have to change to match my pickups impedance (and how do I know what is it?)..

sorry but I'm very confused...

does it have issues with active pickups? that's a real BIG issue, isn't there a way to complete disable that feature?



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by gregr on 2011-11-20 13:07:17

Sean_Clarke wrote:

Getting the sound in your head is the holy grail, I am a 45 year old crusty and haven't managed it yet!

With the HD500, I haven't exactly gotten this either, though I have with my Mesa gear.  If it weren't for the HD500 being so convenient, I would have already gotten rid of it.  I know I shouldn't be putting faith in it becomming something it currently isn't, but these last couple of updates do bring some hope.  If it turns out that my requests will only be realized through pay-to-play and buy before you try then I will probably sell the unit.  I've invested enough of my valuable time into it already.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by gregr on 2011-11-20 13:15:17

hansvaneven wrote:

bass freq's that had much less definition

Weak capacitive coupling of a high impedance source, perhaps,  AD/DA conversion?  Absolutely not.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by gregr on 2011-11-20 13:38:51

DrFix wrote:

Sorry but I don't understand very well ho input impedance works: is it a simulation or is it a real physical impedance change?

Does it affect how my pickups work (like a power from the unit to my pickups) or it's just a setting which I have to change to match my pickups impedance (and how do I know what is it?)..

sorry but I'm very confused...

does it have issues with active pickups? that's a real BIG issue, isn't there a way to complete disable that feature?

The Pod doesn't provide power to your pickups.

For the most part, what is happening to your tone (and "feel" or "touch" though this is really only a psychological phenomenon) whether it is realized through physical hardware or software simulation is that it becomes darker and more dynamic (less compressed or over driven) with decreasing input impedance.

If you want the devices in the Pod to behave most like their real-world counterparts, choose auto.  If you are concerned that your active pickups might be unrealistically loaded or don't want this behavior at all then consider choosing 1M or 3.5M.    Before you taking any of my advice, however, I suggest you try the settings for yourself and choose what sounds right for you.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by TimD on 2011-11-20 14:01:21

After I downloaded v1.40, I had to turn down the amp volume level on all my high gain patches or I got nasty clipping or a return of the "hash" on most positions on the A, E and B strings (7-string guitars).  After I did that, things seemed to be OK with the patch.  I switched back to 1.30 to compare, and 1.40 seems to have more gain as well.  Anyone experience these?



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by gtrman100 on 2011-11-20 20:13:28

Check to see that the Input 2 settings on the Setup screen haven't defaulted to "same". This doubles the input level and could be causing the clipping. I haven't check it, but I've heard that the new impedance feature changes the default input settings.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by Sean_Clarke on 2011-11-20 23:43:49

Mesa make fabulous amps, but generally around a couple of thousand pounds here in the UK, HD500 was only 400 (hd500 and dt25 for a grand) and I am happy with that combo, I get the same sound recording or live now. Blackstar doesn't get used anymore...Still, I wouldnt say no to a lonestar or mkv :-)

I hope you get your EQ. And make the HD work for you, I still contend there s nothing better for the price, but that doesn't mean it will do what you want or need! Good Luck!



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by DrFix on 2011-11-21 01:31:24

Which should be the right setting? I thought guitar on input1 and same on input2 if using only a guitar...



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by DeanDinosaur on 2011-11-21 04:18:55

DrFix wrote:

Sorry but I don't understand very well ho input impedance works: is it a simulation or is it a real physical impedance change?

It''s not a simulation, it's a real physical impedence change that happens at the "POD HD Guitar Input" and not any other input such as AUX or MIC etc. The reason behind that is not matching to your guitar pickups, but match to real world situation. Let's say you have a real world situation where your guitar goes first into big muff then amp,The big muff  has a low input impedence of somewhere near 90k .  To simulate this situation using a modeler,  that usually has input impdence of 1m or thereabout, you plug the guitar into POD HD andput the FUZ pi first in your signal. Now  you set POD's  input impedence to 90k to have an authentic simulation of the real world situation. This only applies to the first in your signal chain...



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by DeanDinosaur on 2011-11-21 04:50:55

DrFix wrote:

Which should be the right setting? I thought guitar on input1 and same on input2 if using only a guitar...

Guitar at input 1and Variax at input 2 yield the least noise.

There's no wrong or right,  I personally use guitar on 1 and 2 only in one situation when I use  completely discrete signal paths for amp A and AMP B




Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by meambobbo on 2011-11-21 07:20:40

yes - exact same experience over here

edit: in regards to increased gain on front end and increased clipping before turning down amp volume knob with firmware v1.4.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by meambobbo on 2011-11-21 07:25:16

I use mostly high gain patches, and I run input 1 - guitar, input 2 - same most of the time.  All this means for me is that I don't turn the gain control up as high as I would if I ran input 1 - guitar, input 2 - variax.

It's best to use input 2 - variax when you are using a very low gain setting for a single amp patch.  This makes it a little cleaner and less compressed because you're feeding less signal strength into the amp.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by gregr on 2011-11-21 09:57:33

DeanDinosaur wrote:

It''s not a simulation, it's a real physical impedence change that happens at the "POD HD Guitar Input"

...and you're so certain about this because?

I experience a similar change in tone whether I use a high output impedance passive pickups or low output impdedance active pickups.  Can you explain why this would be the case with a physical impedance change?



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by meambobbo on 2011-11-21 11:09:58

You've made me interested in trying to figure out if this is a simulation, or it actually switches hardware components to acheive the "variable impedence".

http://foobazaar.com/podhd/impTest/

Test 1 is active electronics - Seymour Duncan AHB-1 bridge pickup.

Test 2 is passive electronics - Dimarzio Steve's Special (or something close to it).

Each test goes 32K, 90K, 230K, 3.5M, 32K, 3.5M

It definitely impacts the actives, but I think the change in tone is much more subtle than the passives.  I think the passives experience more and more tonal change as you turn up the Z, whereas the actives change less and less. Also, on the passives, it seems to boost the treble as you turn up the Z, whereas with the actives it seems to fill in the mids and make the tone a little "richer" to my ears.

I don't know enough about electronics to come to a firm conclusion either way, but I can say with confidence that it's not just a simple EQ trick.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by DeanDinosaur on 2011-11-21 11:14:48

gregr wrote:

DeanDinosaur wrote:

It''s not a simulation, it's a real physical impedence change that happens at the "POD HD Guitar Input"

...and you're so certain about this because?

I experience a similar change in tone whether I use a high output impedance passive pickups or low output impdedance active pickups.  Can you explain why this would be the case with a physical impedance change?

Based on what I read, this is how I understand it.  If the HD is capable of 1m at the physical input for guitar and the feature as explained states clearly that "This feature affects tone and feel because your guitar pickups are being loaded as they would be by an effect pedal or a tube amplifier."

A software feature only can't load my pickups differently unless it's actually changing the physical impedence. At least that's how I understand it.

Regarding your EMG guitar pickups, I'm not really sure about that I might be able to guesss if I know what their output Impedence is. since the Pod is  providing as low as 22k you still woul get some vatiation I guess..

I'm certainely no electrical engineer but based on what I read, if I found out that this was just a software feature only, I would certainely feel cheated , but I think it would be helpful to know what's the EMGs output empedence, I now it can be as low as 10k, but I'm not sure about yours.



Also I know the AXE FX didn't have this feature but the AXE II has it which makes me think if it was feasible to impliment this feature exlusively in software, why would fractal audio  not add it to their AXE generation one with firmware update!! So I tend to think that it's very likely implimented at the hardware level in the HD.




Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by gregr on 2011-11-21 11:21:12

...yes and you can't model tubes with software either.

I don't feel cheated at all.  I am actually happy that the option treats my EMG pickups like it treats my passive pickups.

Now I could be wrong and it is a hardware-based implementation, but based on what I'm experiencing and without a techical explanation from those who are only going by what is written in the release notes, I feel inclined to treat such statements as dogma.

Can you explain how this hardware magically appeared just by running a firware update?  If it was already present, then why wasn't it being used earlier?



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by meambobbo on 2011-11-21 11:54:07

Check this out:

http://www.guitar.com.au/pickups/emg/Specs.html

This says the 81 has an output impedance of 10k.  From what I understand if you wanted to send this source to a load impedance that is considered "high Z" in relation to the source impedance, you'd need to have 10x the Z or more - 100k+.  So you should be hearing tonal differences as you ascend from 20k - 120k on the Pod.  But from 230k - 3.5M you shouldn't hear much tonal variation.

I can't find anything about what a typical high-output passive humbucker's output impedance range would be, but we have to assume it's higher than that, and it will vary with frequency as well as output level.  I would assume it can get up to 100k, hence amps making their inputs 1M.

This is consistent with how my actives behave through the Pod, so maybe there is actual hardware switching going on.

But either way I don't care - I like the change.  I don't really care to switch settings (sticking with 1M), but I feel like the input has become more dynamic and responsive.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by gregr on 2011-11-21 12:33:58

meambobbo wrote:

But from 230k - 3.5M you shouldn't hear much tonal variation.

Yet I do hear tonal variation, and as much (or as little) as I do with passive pickups.  Hence my questioning the insistence that it is done in hardware.  Combine this with how it could be realized in hardware with just an update in firmware, and you might see why I feel justified in my skepticism.

FWIW, I really don't care either way, either.  As I said, earlier, if I get more variation through a software-based approach, then that would be my preference.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by zaboomafoo on 2011-11-21 13:05:30

This might explain it (taken from http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=986565&page=10):

<<<<quote:

We put the hardware there from the get go. We had more development to do in the firmware before we implemented it. As I always say, we could not talk about future updates so we could not talk about the fact that the hardware was there waiting to be used. It is a federal law thing. Maybe state law as well.          

__________________
Rich Renken
Customer Advocate
Line 6, Inc.

            

end of quote>>>>

BTW over there at thegearpage seems to be much more info about this update (and other line 6 stuff).



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by x-space on 2011-11-25 04:17:12

I'm planning to buy soon 500...

So is it possible to use each pedal of POD HD500 to send different MIDI CC commands by midi-cable (or over usb - for me it doesn't matter) to other software/hardware - to assign different CC's to POD's footswitches now with v1.4? I want to use hd500 sometimes as a MIDI controller for Ableton Live. In Ableton its very simply to assign different functions on CC's # with a MIDI Learn (for example from my midi keyboard controller M-Audio Axiom49), but is it possible with pod to send them? My Boss GT8 can't (only expression and Control pedals work as a CC commands)



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by CIM1 on 2011-11-25 05:34:43

gregr wrote:

meambobbo wrote:

But from 230k - 3.5M you shouldn't hear much tonal variation.

Yet I do hear tonal variation, and as much (or as little) as I do with passive pickups.  Hence my questioning the insistence that it is done in hardware.  Combine this with how it could be realized in hardware with just an update in firmware, and you might see why I feel justified in my skepticism.

FWIW, I really don't care either way, either.  As I said, earlier, if I get more variation through a software-based approach, then that would be my preference.

I just demonstrated to myself that this is not a software implementation - it must be in hardware.

Actually a very simple approach : I used a Y-cable feeding from my tele into the pod input and also direct into a mixer from the unprocessed guitar signal - but loaded by the input impedance of the Pod.

The conclusion is clear - changing the guitar input Z on the Pod HD changes the impedance at the input, because I can hear a change in the guitar tone D.I through the mixer (i.e. not passed through Pod HD).

I am both surprised and impressed that input Z is a real hardware implementation of some kind.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by meambobbo on 2011-11-25 08:14:27

Good test. And good work by line 6



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by zaboomafoo on 2011-11-25 08:17:26

It was confirmed on another forum that hardware already was there, jost not used by the software in the previous firmares. See my message above:

http://line6.com/support/message/330461#330461



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by Nick_Mattocks on 2011-11-26 05:14:55

x-space wrote:

I'm planning to buy soon 500...

So is it possible to use each pedal of POD HD500 to send different MIDI CC commands by midi-cable (or over usb - for me it doesn't matter) to other software/hardware - to assign different CC's to POD's footswitches now with v1.4? I want to use hd500 sometimes as a MIDI controller for Ableton Live. In Ableton its very simply to assign different functions on CC's # with a MIDI Learn (for example from my midi keyboard controller M-Audio Axiom49), but is it possible with pod to send them? My Boss GT8 can't (only expression and Control pedals work as a CC commands)

Yes I'm 99% sure that the POD HD500's ability to send MIDI CC commands using the programmable foot switches should work at least to some extent with your Ableton Live setup. 

The HD500 has been able to send MIDI CC's like this for a while, but not been able to receive and act on them before firmware 1.4.   However, i would take steps to practically ensure that this works for your actual needs before purchasing the HD500 by going to your local Line 6 retailer and trying the MIDI implementation out with Ableton on a laptop using a standard USB MIDI interface on the computer.

Nick



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by mtreehugger on 2011-11-26 07:25:34

I'm just trying to catch up here, and as I begin to update my firmware I'd like to know...

Is there an official statement by Line 6 as to how input impedance was handled previous to this update?  The speculation is that what we had previously was what is now referred to as "Auto," but as far as I can tell this is only speculation.  Before making a bunch of changes to (or a lot of experimentation with) my patches, I'd like a better understanding of where I'm at right now. 

p.s. I'm glad my HD500 will soon have enhancements in handling input Z.  THANKS, Line 6!




Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by DeanDinosaur on 2011-11-26 07:51:03

I'm not sure where I read in this forum, but it was 1m and not auto.  I remember that because that was my guess.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by silverhead on 2011-11-26 07:58:39

I recall that too, but can't remeber exactly what thread it was in. But it was a statement from Line 6 tech support.



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by mtreehugger on 2011-11-26 09:54:19

Thanks to both of you!  Glad I asked!



Re: POD HD500, HD Pro and HD (Bean) V. 1.40 update available
by x-space on 2011-11-29 04:34:03

Thanx for your answer, Nick




The information above may not be current, and you should direct questions to the current forum or review the manual.