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DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by juanffz on 2011-12-14 08:19:34

Hi everyone!!!!

I´m a long term Line 6 user, and right now i have terrible gas about buying a Pod HD500+DT25 amp.

I´ve heaard the demos and, man, that amp is really sweet...

But i have a problem: no dealer in my hometown, so i cannot try the amp first.

Anyhow, I´ve never owned a tube amp, and as far as i am a home guitarrist, never played at venues and probably never will, i wonder if the DT25 would be too loud for my home use. I know it has a low volume mode, which makes the amp work just with the preamp voicings without pushing the tubes, I mean if it would be too loud to use in pure "tube mode"

Thanks in advance for your answers!!!!



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by spaceatl on 2011-12-14 08:48:05

You can use it at home at full power too...It can get loud, but it is very easy to manage...The LVM is quite nice too...You can even record off the direct out in standby which something the DT50 does not do...I love my DT25...You can jam with a full band too...It's just enough power for that...I think it might be the perfect recording amp...Only three tubes, so it is pretty easy to maintain if you are new to tube amps and nothing like have to put 12 bottles into a Mark V...



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by Rowbi on 2011-12-14 09:05:03

Hey chap,

one persons opinion of home volume (perhaps for someone who lives in a flat) may be very different to the home volume if you live in the country with no close neighbours.

realistically, if you're never really going to play too loud, then a tube amp is still a good choice, but there are other options too.

In a tube amp the tubes need to cook to give their best tone, shich only happens when you crank it.  sure the DT25 can do bedroom level, but you're using full amp models, which the POD can do on its own through monitors.  the tubes may be adding a tiny ammount of warmth in that situation, but not a lot... I guess if you want the amp to play loud, out and about, and maybe loud at home, then you defo want the amp... and as an extra feature you can use bedroom level.... The HD500 I use, I tend to amplify using KRK Rokit G2 monitors (I have the 8" versions, but the 5's and 6's are used by other people on this forum too).  ALso Sennheiser HD280 Pro's are great headphones for home use...

so... if you really want a tube amp, then yep get the DT25...  It will sound great.

Another option to hear your POD at home, if you don't need high volume, get some nearfield monitors like the KRKs or some headphones...

it's a personal preference thing really. I prefer amps out, but monitors at home, but everyone iss different

Cheers

Rowbi

Message was edited by: Andrew Roebuck



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by juanffz on 2011-12-14 10:42:05

Thank you for your clear answer!!!! My GAS for the DT25 is now even higher!!!

Another question: would there be any volume difference between the combo or the head+cab??? I guess not, as far as the speaker seems the same, but would like to know your opinion...



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by spaceatl on 2011-12-14 11:10:44

I would say yes, there would be a very slight difference in volume between the head/ported 112 cab and the open back 112 combo....The power output and the speakers themselves are identical...However, the ported 112 cab is closed back with two ports on the front where the combo is open back (at least I would think it is similar to the DT50 only smaller)...A closed back cabinet is going to be a bit more efficient with the same power and speaker than the open back will be...There is also a difference in the low end...The closed back cab will thump a bit more than the open back will...

I have a DT50 112 and a DT25 head and cab...I have several other amps in the herd that are open back and I am just making a general observation about what I think the difference would be...I have not actually heard and used the DT25 112 combo...but the differences between open back and closed back speaker cabinets is fairly universal...open is always less efficient and may have a bass cancellation or coupling effect depending on where it is placed in the room...This is because the low end folds back over the front off the open back...That effect can be quite good for guitar as you tend to get very nice midrange out of open backs...

closed backs make dealing with the bottom end a bit easier and room placement is a bit less of an issue...But the mids might be slightly more scooped sounding...



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by digiprod on 2011-12-22 12:36:54

I took delivery of a DT25 today to complete the so-called Dream Rig - Pod HD500 and JTV-59 I already owned.

I have only spent a short time with the DT25 so far. It is an excellent tube amp and the 4 voicings are quite nice. BUT, it may not be a keeper for me as I need good tube tone at home volumes. The DT25 is a monster for a 25 watt amp and is quite loud. Maybe too loud for my needs. As with all tube amps you need to push it a bit to get great tone. The LVM helps, but basically bypasses the Power Amp section so it basically sounds good, but not really a true tube amp using it like that. Managing volume and getting great tube type tone while NOT in LVM does not seem to be too easy. Sure wish Line 6 made a smaller 10 watt version of the DT.

I own several small tube amps I am quite happy with for home use - Blackstar HT5, Blackstar HT1R, Fender Blues Jr (with BillM mods) and Fender Super Champ XD (with some mods). My main reason for buying a DT25 was to mate it with the other Line 6 gear. I could not find one locally to try. So I bought it from MF unheard. The DT25 is a better and considerably more expensive amp than what I had already owned, but for home use it just may be overkill. I do not play out and when I play with others volume has never been a issue with my other amps.

I plan on giving the DT25 some more time to see if I can make it work. MF gives you 45 days. If not, I will return it and maybe have to just use the HD500 with my Blackstar using the 4CM or trying a FRFR system or maybe a Tech 21 Power Engine and live with that tone which is not bad.

Anyone else have any thoughts?



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by spaceatl on 2011-12-22 13:14:32

hmmmm.....If it is kinda on the edge of being too loud, I see a couple of things you could do to reduce power that would not really be major modifications...

1. Change the power tubes to EL844....These are Low Power EL84s...That should should get it down to 18 watts AB...

http://thetubestore.com/jj-el844.html

2. Change the speaker to a 16 ohm speaker...Also look for something that is a little lower SPL...16 ohm with the same SPL is just about like going to half power, but not quite...-3 db in SPL is almost the same as cutting power in half...So you could get a reduction here as well...

I think you could get it down to acting like a 10 watt amp with EL844 and a 16 ohm speaker with something like a 92 db SPL rating...anyway...just some thoughts if the DT25 is on the edge of being too loud for you...BTW, the power section is not bypassed in LVM...It is for the XLR output, but the tubes are jsut running plate starved like the low power mode of any tube amp...



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by digiprod on 2011-12-22 15:12:40

Thanks for the reply. According to the DT25 L6 manual:

Low Volume Mode Switch

Pull the Master Volume knob on DT50, or use the switch on the back of DT25 to toggle the Low Volume Mode (LVM) “On.” The LVM functions independently of POD HD and significantly lowers the overall DT amplifier’s volume level, which can be very handy for recording or “bedroom” playing! When LVM is active, the DT amplifier utilizes internal power amp modeling to simulate the tonality and distortion which is otherwise only achievable at loud volumes.

So if tubes are being usd at all it is minimal, as it states Power Amp modeling. In use you do hear a different tone, not just volume drop. It is decent, but not the same.

Your other suggestion are things to think about, but I would have to question what it might do to tonality, not to mention voiding warranty. I also thought about getting an attenuator like the Mass or Airbreak, but they are not cheap and would add significantly to what is already a pricey home amp.

Sure wish Line 6 either made a smaller DT amp or at least added a true built-in attenuator like I have seen on several boutique amps like Samamp. See http://www.samamp.com/id6.html

The DT25 is a wonderful sounding amp if your neighbors (and wife) are deaf and you yourself can take the volume! The clean tones are very good as there is all that headroom.

I am really on the fence about keeping it. I am off the next week from work so I will go thru it's paces and decide. If I was a gigging musician, it would be a no brainer. But truthfully I like the overtones I can get with one of my smaller amps at a lower volume for the dirtier sounds. When I ordered this amp the volume was my biggest concern.



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by digiprod on 2011-12-22 20:17:28

Anybody have any experience using this https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/minimass.htm on a DT amp?

I am considering getting one of these. costs about $115.



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by bartpuglise on 2011-12-22 22:49:11

I have a DT50 head and a Avatar 2x12 cab running thru the HD500 w/l6 link. I added a DR Z attenuator and I absolutely live this rig. I keep my master volume around 75% and I can still play that bad boy in my basement without my wife having a meltdown LOL the tubes being driven at that level sounds awesome although I may sacrifice tube life it's well worth it!



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by digiprod on 2011-12-23 05:29:15

Cool, I need to keep the melt downs to a minimum here. Thanks for the info, I think the attenuator may be the problem solver for the DT25 to play at lower levels and still get some tone!



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by spikey on 2011-12-23 09:03:57

Im using a Rivera Rock Crusher with my DT 50 and all is well. Bedroom levels are sweet and post distorted heavenly toneful....



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by MGblade on 2011-12-23 09:51:30

how about the eminence FDM speakers??

http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Reignmaker">http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Reignmaker">http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Reignmaker

saw a review on youtube, sounded very good

a little unhandy if you have a closed back can tough.



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by digiprod on 2011-12-23 12:12:59

wow, very cool. I never saw one of those.



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by digiprod on 2011-12-23 12:24:14

wow that is a bit pricey. But I guess as usual you may end up getting what you pay for.  I ordered a Weber Mini Mass off of ebay. Thought I would give that a try as it only cost $115.   Line 6's DT setlist has helped a great deal as I gave me a baseline of what is possible quickly at the volumes I need. What I found is with tweaking I can get decent tone at a volume that is just a little too loud of acceptable in the house. All I need is to drop it down a little more with the attenuator so I do not have to rely on the LVM which does change the tone. First time any Line 6 patches were any good IMHO.  I am feeding my home studio Yamaha speakers thru the HD500 effects send so I can route the acoustic models. I started with the DT setlist and tweaked the Variax FX Loop patches. Switches nicely from the DT25 to the studio speakers for full range for the acoustic patches.   Overall I like the DT25 as an amp and pairing it with the HD500 and JTV-59 it is quite nice :-)  If I solve the volume issue it will be golden.



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by digiprod on 2011-12-29 14:58:30

OK, I got my Weber Mini Mass attenuator today. I hooked it up to my DT25 and found that the Weber is a solution to the volume problems for home and studio playing. I was able to lower the volume to about half output and get very nice tube driven tone. The Weber also has a treble boost control that is helpful. The Weber changes the tone slightly, but easily fixed with treble boost control and EQ. I found that the DT25, HD500 and JTV-59 sounds better with the Weber than with the LVM on the DT25.

If you are having the same issus with high volume, this comes recommended. Note that you have to keep your expectations as you will not be bringing down a 100 watt Marshall to whisper volume and allow it to sound good. But this surely sounds quite good with a DT25. This could easily be used when you need to lower volume in a small club to keep the bartender happy.

The Weber will allow me to keep the DT25! Weber cost $115 new and is well worth it IMHO.



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by juanffz on 2012-01-09 08:03:46

Mmmmm so sad to hear the volume issue... Anyhow, it was something to expect from a 25 watter...

I´ve never had much trouble about volume, i live in a flat, but have absolutely no neighbours at all, because the rest of the flats are offices and when i play they are already closed.

But that doesn´t mean i can play at venue levels... My girlfriend wouldn´t be very pleased, that´s for sure...

So, if buying i´ll have to bear in mind the attenuator shoul be bought too.

And yes, a 10 watt DT amp would be great...



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by ahrens on 2012-01-09 10:21:47

It's great to play at higher volumes, no doubt, but

I can assure you that the dt 25 tones sound great

at reasonable levels too.  I have a practice amp

(fender mustang) that isn't satisfying until I

turn it up to that same level.  I will say that I prefer

the extra control and tonal options (compression...ect)

when used with my hd500.  What a killer combination.

I'll be starting an "appreciation" thread soon :)



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by digiprod on 2012-01-09 10:54:42

Love the integration of the HD500, JTV-59 and DT25 - The Dream Rig, but I wish Line 6 had a 5 or 10 watt version of the DT. OR they might have added true power scaling or an attenuator like the Air Brake into the amp. The LVM is OK, but lacks the tone of the DT25, which is a very nice tube amp. The LVM basically bypasses the Power Tubes and uses modeling. This is great in a pinch, but defeats the purpose of a nice tube amp. I have never liked any of the pure solid state amps I have tried and I have tried many. If Line 6 did not go tube, I would never have bought an amp from them. The Spider valve was OK, but too loud and powerful for me and I was not crazy about the amp.

The Weber mini Mass I bought sure helps. I would love to compare the DrZ Airbrake on the DT25. Looking for a deal on one.

Even a 5 watt tube amp is loud for some people's home use. With so many great small low wattage tube amps on the market, I would have hoped Line 6 would join the party.

I own several smaller tube amps:

Fender Blues Jr (lots of mods) - about 15 watts

Fender Super Champ XD (some mods) - about 15 watts

Blackstar HT-5 - about 5 watts

Blackstar HT-1R - about 1 watt

I also have some solid state amps:

Vox DA-5 - about 5 watts, but variable

Crate Acoustic amp

Older Crate amp around 40 watts

I sold the larger amps I owned a long time ago as I no longer needed them. I do not play out much and if I do a 5-15 watt tube amp is plenty loud enough (lighter too). I mainly play Rock and Blues and a little Jazz. No Metal or Modern Rock.

Believe it or not the amp I use the most at home is the Blackstar HT-1R as it get nice tone a low volumes. As nice as the DT25 sounds, you still need to drive the tubes a bit to get the sweet spot like all tube amps. Sure you can compensate with effects, Master volume, etc. But to benefit from a nice tube amp break-up driving the tubes is still needed. Overall, I think the DT25 is a very nice sounding amp and very versatile.

After the experience of using the Weber, I am actually thinking of putting a Dr Z Airbrake lite into a few of my tube amps now. The unit mounts internally near the speaker in the open back amps. Might be a great and convienent tool to add.



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by JKorzyp on 2012-01-26 18:43:22

I'm right with ya brother. I just dropped a ton of cash on a 2x12 Carvin cab w/V30 Celestions, DT25 and a HD400. Kind of sounds like crap. Screechie, Metal sounds terrible, Crunch and other amps are a "shrill". I'm am really not happy. I run the DT25 by itself with the 4 voicings and its good if I crank the hell out of it.

Got to tell ya. I had just sold my Spider Valve 112 w/ V30 Celestion in it and I am sorry I did. The sounds at home levels were so much better. I the same as you went by some Andertons reviews and You Tube sounds and fell in love with this thing. Now I want a divorce and am just trying to figure out if maybe I can rectify this without dropping all the gear on GC and saying take it back.

I need to drop the level and I want to do it without a power soaker. I had it with my Spider Valve.

I am a home player as well. I can crank it a little but it still is not a great sound. I think the new speaker cab may not be great either. Seems like a great thing but I don't know. Been thinking of changing the tubes and using just 1 speaker (16 ohm) or buying the DT 112 extension cab.

I posted a help me link as well. If I can't dial in some good stuff soon, Back it goes.

I may go Fender Hot Rod Deluxe with Pedals. I'm blues, 70-80 rock and some new stuff. Some metal but not hard core. More metallica style.

Let me know what you do.



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by Nick_Mattocks on 2012-01-26 19:29:35

JKorzyp wrote:

I'm right with ya brother. I just dropped a ton of cash on a 2x12 Carvin cab w/V30 Celestions, DT25 and a HD400. Kind of sounds like crap. Screechie, Metal sounds terrible, Crunch and other amps are a "shrill". I'm am really not happy. I run the DT25 by itself with the 4 voicings and its good if I crank the hell out of it.

Got to tell ya. I had just sold my Spider Valve 112 w/ V30 Celestion in it and I am sorry I did. The sounds at home levels were so much better. I the same as you went by some Andertons reviews and You Tube sounds and fell in love with this thing. Now I want a divorce and am just trying to figure out if maybe I can rectify this without dropping all the gear on GC and saying take it back.

I need to drop the level and I want to do it without a power soaker. I had it with my Spider Valve.

I am a home player as well. I can crank it a little but it still is not a great sound. I think the new speaker cab may not be great either. Seems like a great thing but I don't know. Been thinking of changing the tubes and using just 1 speaker (16 ohm) or buying the DT 112 extension cab.

I posted a help me link as well. If I can't dial in some good stuff soon, Back it goes.

I may go Fender Hot Rod Deluxe with Pedals. I'm blues, 70-80 rock and some new stuff. Some metal but not hard core. More metallica style.

Let me know what you do.

Reading this, I can understand that you're not happy with the DT-25 head PLUS POD HD400 PLUS third party Carvin 2x12 cabinet.  But when you take the HD400 out of the equation, you are reasonably happy except for the fact you feel you need to crank the amp to achieve the sound you want. 

I may be wrong, but that kind of tells me the bulk of your problem is related to the HD400 and perhaps the way you have it configured.  My reasoning is that the 4 pre-amp models used in the stand-alone DT-25 are available in identical form in your POD HD400. and if you correctly configure any one of those 4 pre-amp models in your HD400 and pair the POD with your DT-25, all things being equal you should not be able to tell the difference between your DT-25 when it's running stand-alone and when it's running with the HD400 as its pre-amp section, so I would take a look at how you have the output mode set up in the HD400 and whether you are using full or PRE amp models in the POD.  The PRE models are designed primarily for use when using a POD HDx00/HD Pro with a DT-xx amp connected by L6 Link.

Secondly, the speaker cab (1x12) that you see in the Andertons clips is a pretty neat design in terms of the sort of bottom end and general 'punch' that you get from pairing it with a DT-25 head and importantly, as I understand it (I have to confess I haven't actually opened my DT 112 extension cab to check this, but I am certain that the speaker in there is not a V30), it uses a Celestion G12H90 which is custom made for Line 6 and appears in a number of LIne 6's combos and cabs.  A G12H90 is very similar in spec and sound to Celestion's G12K100 speaker.  The G12K100 is considered by many to be a flatter response speaker than a V30 and gives a smoother and less of an 'ice-pick' type sound than a V30 according to some users (see lengthy discussions on the pro's and cons of the Celestion Vintage 30 in the Spider valve forum) and given that it is similar to the G12H90, that holds true for the G12H90 to a degree too.

I happen to like the Celestion Vintage 30 speaker and the way it sounds, but other users really dislike the V30 and find it harsh - particularly in an open back cab format.  Line 6 and other companies often pair a V30 with a different spec speaker in some of their cabs and combos (DT-50 212 uses one V30 and one G12H90, which provides a full sound and the different characteristics of each speaker complement each other well IMO). 

Celestion Vintage 30 speakers can sound quite a bit different depending on the cab they are in too.

I can't say in your case what you're hearing as perhaps thin and a bit harsh might be partially down to the V30's you're using or not, but given the quite polarised opinions out there about the V30, it is worth perhaps taking note.

If your cab and V30s are still  quite new, you should find the sound changes over time as the cones are broken in and become less stiff.

It's subjective of course, but I find the DT-25 head and 1x12 a very good partnership and even when used with a POD HD500 (not the 400 as you have).  I find the DT-25 head also works well with my Marshall 4x12 which is loaded with Celestion V30s which have definitely been broken in over time LOL.

I have a DT-50 212 as well as the DT-25 head + 1x12 cab and have to say that the DT-50 is a true 'beast' in every way, including volume and in a home environment it can be hard to get it to play ball in full power mode at low levels when creating patches on my POD HD500 unless I use my Marshall SE100 attenuator with the speakers.  The DT-25 + 1x12 extension cab on the other hand is much more manageable at low volumes for me when in full power mode without having to use any kind of attenuator.

In summary, I think your main issue is the HD400 and how it's configured that's giving you your main problem with the speaker cab and speaker choice perhaps being secondary.

Nick



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by JKorzyp on 2012-01-27 13:13:41

Thank you Nick. I spent some time playing with the HD400 and pre/post amp settings. Your on the mark. It makes a huge difference. The dial up presets suck. They need to be tweeked. If I turn down the volume, I loose all bottom end either way. I had a 40 watt and it was manageable but different in the fact that I didn't have to push the tubes to get the sound dur to the modeling in the Spider Valve 112. I just sent back my Carvin 2 x 12. I think either way, it's too much speaker. I have a good size room I am playing in but don't want to really blow away the neighbors. I have some distance so it probably isn't a problem but my wife will only tollerate certain levels.

Bottom line is I am going to get a DT112 cab. If I can't manage the sound, I will have too choices. Power attenuator or refund on the gear and go something else.

I am thinking that with a 112 cab, it should quiet down a little and maybe more manageable. I have a feeling that I just may need to do a power attenuator so I can keep the sound. That gets funky as well because you loose high end. Your right on the speakers. V30 may not be the best for this amp head. They sure were sweet on the Spider Valve.

Ther are so many "Home" players. I hate to say that we have to stick to solid state to control volumes and still keep decent tone.

Thanks for the reply. Your on the money with this one.

Jack



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by digiprod on 2012-01-27 13:34:27

An attenuator works well to lower the volume and still drive the tubes a bit to get the tone you want. I put a Weber Mini Mass 50 on my DT25 and it tamed the amp for quiter playing at home. I just bought a used Dr Z Air Brake and will be testing this next week on the DT25.

I am quite happy with the Weber, but wanted another attenuator for a different amp I have, so I am trying the Dr Z and will compare the two.

I was ready to sent the DT25 back, but the weber saved the day. I still wish Line 6 made a smaller tube amp, but this works!



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by spaceatl on 2012-01-27 13:48:04

You might want to check this out...

http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Reignmaker



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by digiprod on 2012-01-27 13:55:11

Thanks. I have seen this, but did not want to modify the amp with a different speaker. I am pretty sure this speaker would do a lot to change the tone of the amp. Rather just add the attenuator which is easily removed.



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by Nick_Mattocks on 2012-01-28 02:53:36

That's neat.  I like that idea    Thanks for the link.



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by digiprod on 2012-02-01 18:28:47

I just got my hands on a Dr Z Air Brake and tried it on my DT25. Sounds great Andersen at bedroom levels. I compared the Dr Z Air Brake to the Weber Mini Mass 50 I already had. They are both great solutions for taming the DT25 for home use and recording.

The Dr Z is pretty transparent and does not change the tone much, just lowers the volume. The Weber min Mass 50 is also very good. The Weber Mini Mass is cheaper and has a few more controls. The Dr Z Air Brake is a little larger physically but can handle more wattage. They are both flood solutions.



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by JKorzyp on 2012-02-05 08:30:37

Here's the real answer. I have been buying and selling amps for years trying to get that full sound in my basement. I don't play out. I jam for fun. 99% of the time I am playing with CD's at home. Here is the story. I have a room about 30ft long by 16 feet wide in a finished family room basement. I had the Line 6 Spider valve 40 watt for a few years and could dial up the main volume and dial down the channel volume and get some great sounds from clean, blues to rock and metal. I too went to the web to hear the DT25 and fell in love with it. I sold my other amps and purchased this DT25 Head to run through my 2x12 Carvin cab with Celestions. Great cab EXCEPT with this amp head. You have to crank the hell out of it to get good sound. The LVM (low volume) switch on the back makes it sound like crap in my oppinion-not the same.

Here is the answer, not that it is cheap. DEFINATELY go for the DT25 HD (Head) and use the DT25 Extension cab 1x12 that is matched. It is truely matched very well for sound and performance. It is ported and almost sounds like an open back. Really great sound! What a HUGE difference. Now I totally love this and I was going to trade it back in. I didn't and I am very happy (which is a difficult thing to say fro me and amps as well as guitar pick ups). Now here is the kicker. I can get really great sound with controlling the master volume and channel volume on the DT25HD. The reverb is very good.

I still think the best sound comes from cranking the tubes because unlike the Spider Valve, this amp changes its power to the tubes, transformer ect to get those realistic sounds. I paired mine with an POD-HD400 as well (I like to tinker but not spend hours programming with the POD HD500. Great unit, just too much programmability for me that I will never use).

So the deal is that yes, this 25watt amp can be too loud to play at home, especially with the family home. So, I really spent another $500 and purchased the Rivera "Rock Crusher". This ain't cheap but I have owned a few attenuators over the years and they suck! The whole idea is that when you use one of these, the idea is to be able to use it to keep your sound at a low home level (for me), the rest of them are great for clubs if your trying to just knock down a few db's but for a lot of people like me, it's about getting killer sound at a level you can enjoy around the house. Let's face it, we're not out in a big venue letting the walls and cieling make our sound or having the room to really let the amp sing.

So my result is DT25HD + DT25 1x12 extension cab + POD HD400 which in my oppinion, you don't need unless you want all those presets and effects but it's great for me + Rock Crusher power attenuator. Yup, not an inexpensive rig especially for home but it's killer and does beat the Spider Valve 112. If I couldn't have done this, I wouldn't waste my money on the DT25. You need to push it to get the sound period. Otherwise it is weak with no body or room fill. Think of it this way. Take your sterio and crank it up so you can hear it in your driveway. Thats about the level you need to get a crank'n sound. I can turn it down quite a bit and do really good but the attenuator makes a difference for sure. The LVM? Well, Line 6 say's it good for bedroom play. Not in my oppion, My Rock Crusher is GREAT for bedroom levels and you may loose a little air blowing in your chest but the tone is there and doesn't drop off like crap, tinny lousy sound.

Regards

Jack



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by digiprod on 2012-02-05 09:11:03

Rock Crusher looks great, but as you said a bit pricey. Nice demo of Rock Crusher here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6pXV2k5XIU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I had similar results with the Weber Mini Mass 50 (around $125) and Dr Z Airbrake (around $325) on my DT25 112 combo. I bought the Weber for great price for $115 and thing it is very good and I bought the Dr Z Airbrake used for $220 which is also very good. Weber Mini Mass 50 is only rated for 50 watts, which works fine on DT25, one Reason it is so inexpensive. It has some boost switches also. Webers bigger models that handle larger wattage amps are more money.

I agree completely on the LVM switch it does not really do the amp justice.

My setup is similar except I have the combo version of the DT25 to save space and cost mostly. Plus if I do need to move it it might be a bit easier.

I have the HD500 as I wanted the VDI input because I own a Variax 700 Acoustic and a JTV-59 and wanted the extra features like changing models automatically by patch. When playing acoustic models I just use some effects in the HD500 and send the signal out the FX Loop to my home studio full range speakers, works well.

I agree with you completely and had the same experience for home use with the DT25. You can tame the beast for home playing and keep the tone if you use a good attenuator. It sure would be easier if Line 6 made a smaller version of the DT25. Cheaper maybe also.

I also maintain several other tube amps and an analog pedal board. I have now put Dr Z Airbrake lite into my Fender Super XD and Fenser Blues Jr. Which both run about 15 watts. The Dr Z Airbrake lite screws right into the back of the cabinet and allows you to attenuate the volume to drive the tubes a bit more when you want too. Nice tool. They run about $169 new.



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by Stratman82 on 2012-08-12 12:34:32

I've seen some of the experts on the forum say that the DT's poweramp tubes still function in LVM at around 12watts. Not heard that definitively from line 6 but it sounds right.

The tone definately changes in LVM but this would be expected given that an element of the tone is now digitally modelled. If the tone was identical there would be no point in paying for a tube amp.

To me the more complicated issue is when you factor a pod HD unit into the equation.....do you still use your preamp patches or switch to FULL version patches in LVM? I've found that its best to use the same PRE patches in LVM. Switching the same patch to FULL in LVM sounds awful. There must still be some modelling activity from the DT in low volume mode even when its connected to a pod HD unit. Clearly the tone is not identical for the above reason (more modelling influence). Volume in itself will also affect the tone.

I had some tone issues in LVM for a while ehich seemed to improve when I realised the pod HD unit was in combo front rather than combo amp mode (connected via L6 Link). Switching to combo amp seemed to improve the tone in LVM.

Having and mantaining a full set of Full plus PRE patches would just be a pain!



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by digiprod on 2012-08-12 12:48:39

The tubes are not used in LVM mode as best as I can tell and the tone is quite different when hearing it. Since there seems to be no autenation circuit in place as after the tube section how can the tubes be used in LVM?

If the experts say they are involved I still doubt it. Please let's see the schematic. Just adding a good attenuating solves the home use volume issue. I have a Dr Z and a Weber and they tame the DT 25 and it sounds far better the digital sound you get from the LVM switch.

The DT 25 is a very nice sounding amp.



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by geppert on 2012-08-12 13:59:26

This has been a GREAT thread. I am thinking of a power soak and the Weber looks like it might be the one for me?



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by rikvandekamp on 2012-08-25 08:27:32

Question about volume problem dt 25 for home use.

Does it helps to Lower the mixer output on the Pod HD to For instance - 60 db and run the amp fully powered. Does this lower the volume with preservation of the sweet tone?

Thanks in advance for your reply



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by Krontab on 2012-08-25 10:09:08

The Weber Mini Mass that I got works great. Odd company to order from but well worth it.



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by pilotron on 2012-09-06 05:48:05

I have the POD HD 500 and DT25

I want to hear the power tubes workso i cranck the dt25 up to 10

i load an amp into my POD go to mixer drop -25 decibel ( I think this works like an attenuator but i am not sure
then i tweak my amp

got me great tones

not tooo loud but still having the power tubes work



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by MGblade on 2012-09-06 08:42:09

This will not work like an attenuator, you are just cutting the signal from the pod in to the dt25 wich make the power tubes work less hard, instead of harder.

an attenuator only works between the amps speaker output and the speaker.



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by pilotron on 2012-09-06 13:40:53

damn so much for my brilliant idea

I stand corrected

so there is no way to "attenuate" unless yuo buy one of those hot plate thingie?

greetz from Belgium

Pieter



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by MGblade on 2012-09-07 06:53:54

i bought an so called L-pad attenuator at ebay for $40  it,s called "the little sucker"and it does a great job, i find it to be very transparent in sound, even at high attenuation(bedroom) levels

it is enough for 25 watt amp, you wouldnt want to use this with the dt50 but for the dt25 it,s powerfull enough.



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by pilotron on 2012-09-08 07:52:46

sounds interesting thanks for the tip

btw i have a Fender Deville valve amp here too
that monster has 60 Wat I believe - can nevr put it on more then 2 and the damn thing goes al the way to 12
any idea for an attenuator for that monster?

greetz

Pilo



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by juanffz on 2013-01-10 03:13:02

Well, finally, after more than a year with the DT25 GAS, I recieved a brand new DT25 112 Combo yesterday. I know I was the one to start this thread and that I am answering myself, but I believe my final opinion might be useful for someone with the same dilemma I had: Is the DT25 too loud for home use?

Well, it is definitively loud, that´s for sure... I find specially loud the second topology, the one based on a Park75, which is loud as hell, even at some point difficult to manage at reasonable home levels... When connected to the HD500, there are also huge differences in the volume level of the different models.

That said, I must admit that the amp is perfectly usable in a home environment, especially if you, as my latest style of playing, are more fond of the clean/crunch sound, and not a high gain junkie. The LVM sounds fairly good to my ears, so it has been a pleasant surprise, after reading very bad reviews of that mode. If you have to crank the hell out of the amp, you can still do it without risking divorce...

Anyhow, i guess I´ll be getting an attenuator in the next few months, in order to achieve real valve distortion at reasonable levels...

I must say the amp is truly amazing: it´s my first valve amp, and I am loving it... The sound just feels so natural and articulate, it does not resist comparison with my previous rig, which now sounds, well, just miles behind the Dt25...

I hope this helps someone suffering from the same doubts I had.

Greetings!!



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by merman_96 on 2013-01-10 08:02:40

I was very happy when the DT-25 was released, because my DT-50 2/12 was ABSOLUTELY too loud for home. And, my recording studio is in the loft, up 2 flights of stairs, so lugging the DT -50 back up after a late night jam session elsewhere became a nightmare. The Arrival of the DT -25 was a godsend. I rarely use the DT-50 lately, and although the DT-25 's low power setting is alright, I prefer the real tube full on setting as I can hear a differance.



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by LUGJUG12 on 2013-01-11 21:14:41

i use my dt 50 and genz benz 4x12 at home i use the lvm mode and i put a jumper cable in the send return loop and put the knob to 20% to cut off some volume and it works for me.



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by LUGJUG12 on 2013-01-11 22:01:49

I just sold my block letter 5150 and peavey ultra and i traded them 4 3 genz benz 4x12 g flex cabs and 1 el diablo 100 watt head ,crazy ..... we will see ill will try this before going to sleep... stand by...thanks



Re: DT25 FOR HOME USE...
by LUGJUG12 on 2013-01-11 22:13:10

I am not a (expert ) just a dude who has ben playing 4 25 year sand i just put my hd147 and 1 genz benz 4x12 g flex together and my son 17 years old and man  is he ever going to town testament the gathering  eyes of wrath hoty shit he is good.




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