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M13 issue with amp's FX loop (tone sucking)
by kalinou on 2011-12-30 17:36:38

Hello everyone. It's my first post on this forum, since I had my first big issue with the M13, after two years of flawless experience with it.

Turns out, I just got myself an amp with a built-in FX loop (the hughes & kettner Tubemeister), and obviously wanted to try plugging my M13 into the FX loop.

But I discovered that as soon as I plug the M13 in the FX loop, the tone becomes... well, really bad. I can't really describe it, but the difference is quite laughable, sounds like a bad 15W solid state amp. This happens when true bypass is off and when I put it on but use any kind of effects (even a volume pedal set at 100% volume).

The tone is unchanged if I plug the M13 right in the amp input though. I also tried to plug some other pedals in the amp's FX loop (such as a Dwarfcraft Shiva), just to see if the problem doesn't come from the amp, and nope, it only happens with the M13.

Does it really colour the tone this bad it becomes unplayable ? Or have I forgot about some hidden setting ? Or what else ?

Right now I seriously begin considering replacing the M13 with analog pedals, but I would love to find another solution instead, it's a very useful pedal to me..

Thanks in advance !

(If needed, I'll be able to record the both tones in about two days)



Re: M13 issue with amp's FX loop (tone sucking)
by phil_m on 2012-01-03 07:04:58

Do you have the amp's loop set to serial? I noticed that it's selectable on the Tubemeister. That would be the first thing. Otherwise, you shouldn't be hearing a lot of tone loss. I've used the M13 in my amps' loops, and it's been fine. There is a chance that the signal coming out of the amps effects send could be too hot for the M13, and clipping it (which might explain why it sounds like a 15W solid state amp). The M13's inputs are instrument level, and a lot of effects loops are line level. There is a lot of headroom in the M13, though, so it can handle hotter signals. If it is a problem, though, you'd need something like this to use in conjuction with the M13.



Re: M13 issue with amp's FX loop (tone sucking)
by kalinou on 2012-01-03 07:36:00

It is selectable ? I saw no switches or anything and all the product reviews talk about a serial loop, so I assumed it already was....

Anyway, thanks, if I can't find another solution, I may as well try the level shifter. Still better than getting rid of the M13.



Re: M13 issue with amp's FX loop (tone sucking)
by phil_m on 2012-01-03 08:01:38

Actually, it looks like I'm wrong on the effects loop. I swear, I looked it up last week when I first saw your post and it said it was selectable (I was going to reply earlier, but forum issues prevented me from logging in)... Anyway, it appears to be only serial. Maybe I was looking at another H&K amp.



Re: M13 issue with amp's FX loop (tone sucking)
by kalinou on 2012-01-03 08:05:30

I guess the only solution left is the line shifter thingy.

Are there other brands making this kind of devices ? I live in France, and I'm pretty sure Ebtech products aren't available here.



Re: M13 issue with amp's FX loop (tone sucking)
by phil_m on 2012-01-03 08:12:03

I think the Morley Effects Loop corrector is essentially the same thing. Morley and Ebtech are under the same ownership, I believe.



Re: M13 issue with amp's FX loop (tone sucking)
by kalinou on 2012-01-03 08:14:41

Thanks a lot !



Re: M13 issue with amp's FX loop (tone sucking)
by tangosuite on 2012-07-16 07:08:59

Hello kalinou!!!

Sadly, I have the same problem as you just on a M9.

My amp it's a Marshall AVT 150H and it has a switch on the FX LOPP that lets you to change from 4dBV to 10dBV.

I've tried to modifying this value but I still have the same problem as you, the tone is realy bad. I publish this issue here: http://line6.com/support/message/383708 please check it out.

I want to comment you this because I don't know if the Morley Effectx Loop Corrector (or other) may be the solution.

I will thanks every answer.



Re: M13 issue with amp's FX loop (tone sucking)
by danidelarosa on 2012-09-19 04:28:57

Hi Kalinou,

I use exactly the same rig as you do, a tubemeister 36 and the M13. I even have a Boss GE-7 and a Dunlop Vol jr pedal in the M13's loop. I also use a 5-pin MIDI cable for amp channel switching with M13 in latch scene mode. It all works like a dream. In addition to that I recently bought the pedalsnake and there is zero hum, lovely!

The first thing I wonder is whether you are using the M13 with 4-cable method, and if that is the case, if all the connections are in the right order?



Re: M13 issue with amp's FX loop (tone sucking)
by kalinou on 2012-09-19 04:58:41

Well, it was like

Guitar -> [cable] -> Tubemeister input -> Tubemeister FX send -> [cable] -> M13 input -> M13 Output -> [cable] -> Tubemeister FX return

am i doing something wrong ?



Re: M13 issue with amp's FX loop (tone sucking)
by danidelarosa on 2012-09-25 01:47:49

Yes, using the M13 in 4-cable method is not as straight forward as a pedal chain. The way I use it (which is one of the ways explained in the manual) is as follows:

Guitar>M13 mono input; Amp input>M13 Fx send mono; Amp send> M13>Fx return mono; Amp return>M13 Output mono.

In addition to this, make sure the light is on in the amp Fx loop button, plus make sure that you tell the M13 which effects do you want in front of the amp (like dist, comp or wah) or in the amp loop (delays, rev or chorus).

Hope this will help!




The information above may not be current, and you should direct questions to the current forum or review the manual.