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Close vetta combo back
by nunonaos on 2012-01-14 21:57:24

Hello, I want to close the back of my vetta combo because at loud volumes the low frequencies become uncontrolable, especialy with palm mutting, I already cutted all the bass from the patches and this still happens.

I think I have two solutions, close the back of the combo, or convert the combo to a head and use external cab(s).

If i close the back of the amp will my problem be solved?And will I have heating issues?

If i convert the combo to a head what details do I have to keep in mind?

Thanks



Re: Close vetta combo back
by jvblack on 2012-01-15 08:07:38

There was some discussion of this at ION a LONG time ago, see this thread as an example:

http://www.instituteofnoise.com/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=15267">http://www.instituteofnoise.com/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=15267">http://www.instituteofnoise.com/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=15267

The primary concern was heat buildup.  Don't fry your amp!! You can't get parts to fix it!!!  I don't remember anyone being pleased with the results, but that was years ago that i was reading about it.

I even tried this myself on a temporary basis with rigid styrofoam sheet cut to fit (from home depot, some kind of insulation).  I didn't see much difference, but then, it wasn't wood.

The consensus, as i recall, was that the BEST solution is simply to sit the combo on a good closed-back 2X12 stereo cab, and use it in conjuction with or instead of the combo speakers, which are easily turned off in software.

I have also seen several discussions of converting the combo to a head, but it seemed to me to be expensive and risky, especially now that parts are difficult or impossible to find if you break something... 

If i wanted a vetta head, i think i'd just try to pick one up someplace.  Prices are really coming down...

I have read in several places that Vetta's love this cab:

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-GEZ-GFLEX">http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-GEZ-GFLEX">http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-GEZ-GFLEX

but it's expensive.  I have not tried it myself, though.

Good Luck,

Joe



Re: Close vetta combo back
by deftim13 on 2012-01-15 20:59:19

How do you turn of the speakers in the combo?



Re: Close vetta combo back
by nunonaos on 2012-01-16 04:35:14

My favorite choice would be to convert it to a head, because I think the placement of the screen and knobs isn't very helfull on the combo.

But I'm affraid of breaking something, and I don't know what kind of impedences options i would have when not using it as combo.



Re: Close vetta combo back
by jvblack on 2012-01-16 06:21:55

Press the output setup button.

Go to Page 3.

Change "Speakers" from "on" to "off".

...

You can get a .pdf copy of the manual from the Line6 website



Re: Close vetta combo back
by MerlinFL on 2012-01-16 17:02:52

+ 1 to what "jvblack" wrote on how to turn the speaker off within the software.  That is exactly correct. 

Or you can disconnect the speakers inside the open back cabinet and leave them unplugged as long as you use a closed back cabinet of ANY KIND that matches the minimum Ohm load per channel.

My personal favorite answer to this question it to ask a question first.  How loud do you play on stage?  You've written that you've turned the low Q down and you still get "uncontrollable low frequencies especially when palm muting".

I've had a Vetta 2x12 combo since 2003 with the original Celestion Custom 90 speakers in it and have never had this problem.  I play a variety of material and I can't even play my amp with FULL POWER MODE on.  I use HALF POWER mode and I get more than enough volume for any style of music I play heavy metal or not.  I also do not play a 7 or now 8 string guitar, but I DO have custom tunings I've created on my Variax guitars that are tuned down to "B" like a Baritone guitar is tuned with no bass "overload" problems.  If you're like most metal players I've worked with live or in the studio - they have this weird EQ thig they do where they THINK they are getting the sound they hear by their favorite metal players, but in reality they are far from how that sound is accomplished.  These guys I've worked with scoop out nearly all the mids and crank the highs & lows.  That is precisely the opposite way of getting that mean crunk for playing metal.  But I digress...

Please don't try making your combo into a head, do as previously suggested if the knobs are not where you want them...buy a used good condition Vetta II head and perhaps sell your Vetta combo.

ALso, I've found that using my Line 6 Vetta and opther Line 6 gear that produces acoustic guitar sounds (don't know if you ever need this or not) The BEST cabinet solution is a good (4ohm for mono or a pair or 8ohm for keeping the stereo output the same) BASS CABINET by several of the better bass cabinet makers.  I don't recommend PA cabs for this as nearly all of those horns are NOT adjustable as they are on bass cabs with horns or tweeters.

Oh, and you always do have the option of using a stereo power amp (tube or solid state) from your Vetta into any cabinets you choose.  This would give you the option of using your internal speakers, PLUS using the external amp and speakers.  One with a VARIABLE horn and my personal preference is one with 10" speakers. 

BUT if you want more bottom end, go with one with 12" or even a combination of 10/12 with a 15".  These cabs are ALWAYS closed backed for the PUNCH gained by the air compression within the cabinet that MOST guitar cabs don't have, PLUS you gain the added bonus of having a full range cabinet that can produce shimmering high Q if needed for acoustic patches.

And it that is still not enough frequency control for you - you also can add a stereo 31-band Graphic EQ cheaply from Behringer or other company that makes quality gear at inexpensive prices.  In this manner you not only do not have to make severe EQ setting within the patchm, but just let the amp "cruise" at a nominal volume and crank up the external amp/EQ and that will come out of whatever external cabinets you have connected to the external power amp.

I hope this helps you in your decision making.  Perhaps other might even get some ideas based on my out-of-the-box thinking in matters like these?

Take care,

Neal



Re: Close vetta combo back
by nunonaos on 2012-01-16 17:15:10

hello and thaks for the answer.

i have the bass controls set to minimum (zero) but when i palm mute...man, it's too much bass.

i use it in half power mode with volume near 11 oclock.

i use a 7 string guitar in drop tunning to A

at lower volumes everything is ok, but at rehearsal that issues happens

i really believe thats because of the open back design

i have the combo connected to an external cab, in the external cab, that doesn't happen.

you advise not to convert to a head, why?

i know it's not easy, i have to pay for a custom cabinet to place the head with all the holes in the right place etc...

but other then that i think it would be ok...right?

i would also have to figure out a way to convert the wires that are connected to the internal speakers of the combo to a speaker out connection.this would allow me to have to cabs connected



Re: Close vetta combo back
by MerlinFL on 2012-01-16 17:27:50

My conversion answer is the same as one previously writeen.  If something breaks or is damaged, your're outta luck since they are getting harder and harder to get repaired and parts have long since ceased being made.

Otherwise I'm not sure why your amp settings which are certainly not extreme, but yet respond as you say when playing your 7-string tuned to "A"?  Whatever is the best solution for you, is the best solution you should try.

Best of luck and take care,

Neal



Re: Close vetta combo back
by nunonaos on 2012-01-16 17:35:52

I'm sorry, i didn't undertood your question



Re: Close vetta combo back
by jvblack on 2012-01-17 06:10:21

A few thoughts on your problem regarding things to do/check before you start cutting up your amp:

Be sure you have a copy of the manual AND the 2.50 addendum.  Get it here:

http://line6.com/support/manuals/">http://line6.com/support/manuals/">http://line6.com/support/manuals/

Then check your global setting for LOUDNESS.  This can mess with your sound when going from lower to higher volumes.

Referring to the manual, go through ALL the settings of EVERY amp and effect in the patch you're having trouble with, you might have the EQ of one of the stomps set badly, or the in-line EQ could be causing problems.  Don't forget the tone controls for the amp model(s) you're using.  If you're using two amps at once in the patch, that requires careful attention to those settings.  Use Line6Edit for this if possible; it's much easier that way.

If you're amp is on the floor, get it up on a stand so it's not acoustically coupled to the stage.

Check the physical knobs on the amp.  Make sure they aren't getting moved during transport.  The global tone and reverb knobs can get forgotten about with all the software control going on with the Vetta.

If you're running direct outs to the PA while on stage, turn off the combo's speakers during soundcheck, and see what's coming out of the house mix.  You could change the cab and mic models to improve this if it's part of the problem.

If you're setting up your patches in "stereo" mode and then sending the feed to the PA in "mono" mode via the direct outs, it's pretty much guaranteed to sound like crap.

Study this excellent article by XONE to get a fantastic stage sound from the vetta:

http://progressive-metal-xone.blogspot.com/2009/06/way-to-tweak-awesome-tone-from-line-6.html">http://progressive-metal-xone.blogspot.com/2009/06/way-to-tweak-awesome-tone-from-line-6.html">http://progressive-metal-xone.blogspot.com/2009/06/way-to-tweak-awesome-tone-from-line-6.html

...

IF your Vetta is in good working order and set correctly, you should NOT be getting the terrible sound you describe.

Hope this helps,

Good luck,

Joe



Re: Close vetta combo back
by nunonaos on 2012-01-17 14:10:16

Hello again.

thanks for the reply.

today.at reharsal,i messed with the master bass knob.i set it to minimun and it really helped.

i didnt remember to try the loudness setting but i think i have loudness on.

so i used it with the master bass All the way down and with the distorcion patches with the bass knobs near 3 oclock.

it stills makes a bit of woof effect but i think tweaking with the bass knob a little will solve it.

i use it with master volume near 11 oclock.

thanks



Re: Close vetta combo back
by nunonaos on 2012-01-31 02:29:34

Finally i found someone to trade my combo with. I traded the combo for the head version.

Now, i use two 2x12 closed back cabs. one with celestion v30 and the other with eminence swamp thang.

I can dial enough bass without that woofiness problem.

So, now i'm sure that the problem is in the cab design, it's cool for clean overdriven sounds, even for hi gain sounds, but not at high volumes.



Re: Close vetta combo back
by jvblack on 2012-01-31 06:31:42

It's great to hear that you solved your problem.  Hope you enjoy the head/cab version of the Vetta.

It may be that the combo works well for me, because i almost never use full-on distortion.  I play either clean or slighly overdriven sounds almost all the time.

Well done,

Joe



Re: Close vetta combo back
by nunonaos on 2012-01-31 06:44:44

well, i'm not using a vetta cab, because it would sound the same i guess... the vetta cab is still an open back design and the same speakers so...

I'm using a closed back orange 2x12 with v30 and a custom built cab with 2 eminence swamp thang

Thanks




The information above may not be current, and you should direct questions to the current forum or review the manual.