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DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by kisscool82 on 2012-01-19 03:11:12

Hi,

I just bought a DT50 head + cab and the Pod HD500. The 4 DT50 voicings sounds so great ! I cannot find the same sounds with the pod connected with L6link.

I read many posts on this topic and find the voicing/pre-amp correlations:

I: Fender Blackface Deluxe

II: Brit P-75

III: Vox AC30

IV: Treadplate with voicing 4 on amp

I'm using the pre-amps models with cab simulation disabled on the pod. Doing that, am I using the real DT50 pre-amp or the pod pre-amp model ?

I tried differents pre-amp model settings, but it still sounds different.

I noticed that the volume level greatly affects the sound. I guess it's because of the tubes, but does this the only reason ?

Using the lower volume mode on the DT50 affects the sound too...

Please help me, I cannot do without de voicings sounds

Sorry for my bad english

Thx



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by Nick_Mattocks on 2012-01-19 04:48:20

Cab simulation in the POD HD500 when used with PRE models and when connected to a DT-xx amp by L6 Link uses LIVE cab models and is ideally intended to be switched ON, but it's ultimately a matter for your ears to help you decide.

There was a big debate on this topic about a year ago and after some controlled testing there was found to be no difference between using the pre-amps in the DT-50 and the corresponding pre-amps in the POD BUT to do it successfully it does have to be set up correctly.  I will try my best to find the relevant threads for you and post the links here.

You do need to make sure that the POD and DT-xx have the latest firmware versions installed.

Nick



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by kisscool82 on 2012-01-19 06:00:38

I've updated my pod and the DT50 yesterday with the latest firmeware.

I've read somewhere in the forum that there's no difference between using the pre-amps in the DT-50 and the corresponding pre-amps in the POD. But my ears disagree.

Seems my setup isn't good ? I think I did everything correctly... Can you explain to me what kind of mistake I've done.

Thank you for your advices



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by stumpsout on 2012-01-19 12:22:42

I've been wondering this too, couldn't find the info on it.

It would be a very good setting to include in the presets in the future...

I made patches of the settings for the 4 amps on the chart that comes with the DT25, but it isn't sounding as good as if you just plug into the DT25.



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by thiilaak on 2012-01-19 12:26:11

Hi guys. My first post here.


I purchased the POD HD400 a year ago and was using it left/right out into an orange tiny terror plus 1x12 cab and into a Spider III 75 and got a very good sound out of this combination. Recently our bands purchased line array PA systems and I have been using the POD HD 400 into a mixer and into the PA system. This sounds not too bad either. However, I missed that amp kind of sound and therefore bought a DT25 Combo a week ago.

The DT25 on it's own sounds truly fantastic and it's a joy the play around with the topology, A A/B and also Triode/Pentode. I didn't even connect the POD HD 400 for a couple a days, so much fun is this great amp. I have now added the orange cab as it uses another loudspeaker and adds a nice colour to the whole set-up. Sorry, I'm yacking....

Anyway, I had bought the DT25 to combine it with the HD 400. Now, when I actually did connect the two I was slightly disappointed. Why, you ask? When I turn the POD HD from FULL AMP to PREAMP I get a hugely different sound. It's like all the power amp distortion gets lost. Maybe I have missed something and need to adjust a parameter. Any ideas?

Another issue: I was planning to use the emulated output of the DT25 to go into the mixing desk and to "mute" the DT25 speaker so we can retain our fantastic band sound through our line array systems. To utilise this, one needs to switch the amp to low power mode and put the amp on standby. My problem is, the signal is so low coming out the DT25 that I have to turn up the master volume very far. This creates unwanted distortion, I think it could be (modelled) power amp distortion. Any ideas on this?

Greg



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by kisscool82 on 2012-01-19 22:51:47

I feel reassuring not to be alone...
Is it possible that line6 publishes detailed settings to get the same sound than the voicings when
connecting a pod hd into a DT50 or DT20 ?

Nick, please, post us a solution, I'm so disappointed not to be able to use my Pod HD500 correctly...

Thx



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by Nick_Mattocks on 2012-01-20 05:02:50

I haven't been able to find the relevant thread from last year - yet



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by kisscool82 on 2012-01-20 06:07:16

I hope you'll find it...

I can't understand why there's no official doc about this. Line6, please, help your purchasers !



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by hollis1003 on 2012-01-20 10:47:16

This has been brought up here numerous times and there is no official response from Line6 and I doubt there ever will be.

My best guess is the at the models are similar to the ones in the POD but that they decided to take some liberties to tweak them ever so slightly.  IMO the POD HD is made to be pretty acurate to the original amps they model.  With the DT-50 they were going for the best representation of a Clean American, Dirty British, Clean British, and Dirty American sounds.  Those happen to be Fender, Marshall, Vox, Mesa Boogie. 

Everyone seems to think the DT50 sounds better than the POD HD but I feel thats just an opinion.  I'm getting outrageously good sounds using the POD HD 500 and DT 50 HD.  I'm very happy and I think it's the best tone I've ever had (been playing 25 years).

If you don't like the Pre-amps in the POD HD then just use the 4C method.



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by Nick_Mattocks on 2012-01-20 12:36:10

OK - I'm throwing myself somewhat to the wolves here LOL.  I carried out some quite exhaustive tests myself a year ago (approx) to get to the bottom of this and what I did exactly was documented in the thread I'm trying to locate.  The thread was either in this forum (POD HD) or DT25/DT50 forum.  Some of the other L6 Experts did similar exercises - specifically Rowbi and Crusty_Old_Rocker - but independently.  Given I have probably slept 365 nights and forgotten bits and pieces about exactly what I did, what follows now may not reflect the exact process I followed, but until I can pinpoint the thread(s) (there were two or three at least) I hope this helps your understanding.

The DT50 and the HDx00 series at the time had the relevant four PRE amp models embedded in the latest firmware that was current at the time and even though the POD HD500 and close relatives are currently at firmware version 1.40, the relevant four PRE amp models in both the POD and DT50 are still exactly the same in both devices.

It is vital that you compare like with like and that you set each device in exactly the same way at all times or comparisons are a complete waste of time.

From memory, here's what I did.  I set up 4 basic test patches in my POD HD500 with each one using ONLY one of the four PRE amp models; the same ones that re used in the DT50.

In each of my repeated four A/B tests which were done by ear only I took care to ensure hat the DT50 was running in FULL power mode and that I set a maximum ceiling level using the amp's MASTER control.  This level remained constant throughout ALL the tests.

The amp (DT-50) was the only amp used given the comparisons i made were simply between the PRE amp models in the amp and the equivalent PRE amp models in the HD500.

I also used a high quality XLR cable between the HD500 and the DT-50 for the L6 Link connection.  You may read some reports on these forums about using different types of XLR cable and how audio quality is perceived to be better or worse depending on the type of cable.  I am not going to comment on that as such, but at present Line 6's stance on this is that a good quality XLR cable is all that is required.

The rest of the test procedure was quite simple.  I set the Drive, Bass, Mid, Treble, Volume to the 12 'o'clock position on the amp and with a standard Ibanez RG1570 Prestige guitar plugged into the front of the amp into the High input I took a close listen to a basic set of chords E - A - D - G - C - F etc strummed with a pick.  The NFL settings and Class settings on the amp were set the same defaults as the HD500 would use.

Then I connected my HD500 to the amp by L6-Link with the same PRE amp model loaded as for the previous listening experience with the amp in stand-alone mode, and set the controls on the HD500 (by eye) to the same positions as I'd used on the DT-50 in stand-alone mode and played the same chords in the same way as the last test.   I A/B'd this a few times to satisfy myself that things sounded the same.  I then did the same kind of A/B test but by playing single notes - again until I was satisfied I was or wasn't hearing the same tones from both the DT-50 stand-alone and the HD500.   Not satisfied with doing that on its own, I then adjusted the controls on the amp's front panel and on the HD500 so again they matched (I tried this in a few positions) and ran the A/B tests again.

Then I moved on to the second PRE amp model and repeated the same stuff I'd done for the first one.  Then onto the other two PRE amp models.

It was as accurate a testing procedure as I could do at home without scientific testing instruments any more sophisticated than my own ears, so with the best will in the world my tests were somewhat subjective and based on my opinion.  However, my ears are in pretty decent working order and from what I could hear, to the best of my ability I could not detect any noticeable differences between the DT-50's PRE amp models when compared to the same four PRE amp models as in the POD HD500's firmware (it would have almost certainly been f/w 1.21 as far as I can recall).

I know from reliable sources that the PRE models in both POD HDx00 and DT-50 at that time were absolutely identical.  I have no reason to doubt that information.  I believe the situation regarding the PRE amp models in both the DT-xx amps and the POD HD series remain identical at this time.

At the end of the day you need to trust your ears and make your own judgement with your own POD and your own DT-xx, but from where I was sitting a year ago and where I am sitting now, the HD500's PRE settings and the DT-50 sound identical with my gear.

The DT-25 doesn't use the same PRE models as the DT-50 in total.  One is different (I'll have to check which one if you need to know - it is documented in the DT-25/DT-50 forum and elsewhere).

With some minor differences in the procedure, I believe both Rowbi and Crusty_Old_Rocker came to the same conclusions as I did.  When some users who had been having exactly the same doubts as highlighted in this thread and who were quite convinced that the HDx00 did not sound the same as the DT-50 on its own, conducted similar tests to ours, their understanding improved and they agreed that their PODx00 and DT-50 stand-alone did sound the same.

I would urge anyone having doubts to try some tests for themselves, but on as level a playing field as possible so that you are indeed comparing apples with apples.

If you still believe after that, that there are differences in sound, I won't necessarily be able to explain why that is so, but I'm happy to try to a point

Nick

EDIT:  I found the missing thread here: http://line6.com/support/thread/55012?start=0&tstart=90



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by hollis1003 on 2012-01-21 06:17:38

Awesome response, Nick!!!!

I resind my previous post.  You very eloquently say "You do not know what you are talking about because you have not experimented enough."  LOL

I don't have the time or inclination to do the testing you did but I absolutely believe you. 

It's too bad we don't have Line 6 groups anymore that meet around an area (LA had a great one and used to upload videos).  If anyone in my area (Clearwater, FL) every wants to get together and talk about Line 6 gear or try out my gear (POD HD 500 and DT-50 HD) I would be more than happy to oblige.  I have a rehearsal room where we can crank it up and jam so just let me know.

Again, great job, Nick!



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by Nick_Mattocks on 2012-01-21 06:58:21

I didn't realise eloquence was a strength I possessed LOL, but yeah to some extent you are dead right. 

Our ears and what they tell us are ultimately the best instruments we could hope for, but a little help from some actual electronic instruments and analysers can support what we say we are hearing and although I spent a good many hours on this it is very hard to say definitively that 'my ears are telling me there's no difference so there is absolutely no difference that anyone else could hear'.  All I can say with any absolute conviction is that I cannot detect any difference.

When I can't hear any difference, I'm afraid life's too short to take it to the N'th degree.  A guitar amp has never and will never be a hi-fi amplifier, so if my ears say to me that the POD PRE's sound the same as the DT-50 PRE's then really that has to be good enough for me as I want/need to get on with the business of making music rather than being too pernickety.  And that's not to make light of the need to know that the PRE's in both devices are delivering the same thing to the power amp, but you do have to draw a line somewhere.

But as I said, my POD HD500 PRE's sound identical to my DT-50 PRE's to my ears and that is good enough for me



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by stumpsout on 2012-01-21 08:26:26

Glad to have this explained, thanks Nick..

One last pernickety ...i have a DT25 I'm left wondering which one of the four is "slightly different"



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by Nick_Mattocks on 2012-01-21 09:08:49

It's Topology I.  The DT-25 has BF Double Vib PRE in there whereas the DT-50 has Fender Blackface Deluxe in that position.

Nick



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by stumpsout on 2012-01-21 11:15:42

Thanks, that explains it



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by Lespaulidas on 2012-01-22 06:39:01

I live in Clearwater as well.  Pm me, let's jam maybe?  I have DT50 as well.



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by Line6Don on 2012-02-02 17:43:33

+1 to Nick_Mattocks.

Nick_Mattocks answer above is correct. I have marked the answer that is correct for your question, please help out the community by marking other suggestions that were helpful to you as "Helpful Answer".

If you still have questions or are still experiencing an issue please start a new thread and mark the discussion as a question. To do so you can follow the link below and Ask a Question:

http://line6.com/support/community/support/

style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';">For more information about using the Online Technical Support System please review our FAQ at the link below:

http://line6.com/support/docs/DOC-1451

style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;">Thanks!



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by aeugle on 2012-03-29 00:11:05

Hi Nick,

can you please post 4 patches for a HD500 that come close to the DT25 stand alone.

I have now my dream rig JTV89, DT25 HD500



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by Nick_Mattocks on 2012-03-29 06:37:40

I'd love to be able to help you out but my DT-25 is at another location right now.  Sorry

Nick



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by aeugle on 2012-03-29 08:54:21

maybe another experts can help.



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by LewisBrunton on 2012-04-12 06:12:59

Hi aeugle,

I have to ask are you mainly using your DT25 on LVM at the moment when trying to compare sounds? If so then the following thread might be interesting to you:http://line6.com/support/thread/83599?tstart=0

Regards

Lewis



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by aeugle on 2012-04-12 08:21:01

Hi Lewis,

I mainly use my DT25 in full power mode.

Meanwhile I think no one rellay can help.

but maybe the experts will decide to help.

Best regards

Thomas



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by kisscool82 on 2012-05-03 23:36:41

I'm sorry but, inspite of every test I do, it still souds different. I tried every patches I found in the forum for "identical" presets.

With PODHD500, the colour is different, maybe a little "numeric"...

Maybe it depends on the pod or amp manufacture date ? Can this be a good reason ?



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by aeugle on 2012-05-04 09:21:29

me too



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by AdamDennis6 on 2012-05-13 06:01:01

In the DT50, there are valves in the preamp, but obviously there isn't in the POD HD. When using a preamp on the POD HD through the DT50 via L6 link, does it some how use the valves in the DT50 preamp or is this preamp skipped altogether? I was under the impression that it is and I imagine that would be the difference in sound that some people are noticing? Anyone able to clarify?



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by hollis1003 on 2012-05-13 07:38:29

The tubes in the DT series are not Pre-amp tubes.  The 12ax7s in the DTs are part of the power amp section, one is an inverter and the other does something else.  It has been said by a Line 6 rep that the pre-amp tubes do not do much to change/enhance the sound.  Therefore, it would not be essential to change them to get a better/different sound.  Changing the power amp tubes would change the tone of the amp.  The pre-amp tubes might cause some noise in the amp and changing them for that problem may be a good idea.

Therefore, when using the POD HD with the DT you are utilizing those 12ax7s in the sound.

I think there are a few reasons why people can't get the same sound.

  1. level setting (different volumes will make the tone seem to change)
  2. not using the right pre-amp or full amp sounds (it's never been clarified by Line 6 which ones are used in the DT)
  3. the input volumes (before the amp) on the POD could be drastically changed by how you have effects set up (even if they are off) due to the routing options in the POD (check out Meambobo's high gain guide - good for all types of gain)
  4. Simple user inexperience with the combination of POD HD and DT and not understanding how amps work

Anyway, still lots of unanswered questions by Line 6.  Don't bother asking, the combination sounds great anyway.



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by aeugle on 2012-05-13 22:57:26

Good comment,

I also think it never have been clarified if cabinet simulation should be used in the POD or not making sounds compareable.



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by guitar4u on 2012-05-15 11:35:38

Exactly my experience! I've done DEEP EDITING with the POD HD connected via L6 Link and VDI to JTV Variax. I've spent hours going back and forth between different setups, reading the manuals, checking the forums, trying customtone presets, etc. etc. and it shouldn't be this hard to get a decent tube sound happening. Everything from the HD sounds cold, stiff and very digital (2-dimmensional). I've played with the Channel Volume, Master Volume on the amp, Mixer panning and volume, etc. etc. Yeah, I can get it LOUDER but I can't add back the missing dynamics and tube-like sound that is inherent with the amp. Then, I take the HD out of the equation and plug a 1/4-inch direct into my DT25 head and there it is...GREAT TUBE TONE! WTF?! I don't believe these are the same signal chains at all, sorry. The DT25 is doing SOMETHING that the HD500 cannot replicate and it's frustrating because I want those options in the HD500 and paid over $1300 for this rig



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by aeugle on 2012-05-16 04:00:20

agree !!



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by guitar4u on 2012-05-20 17:59:42

Awww maaaan, I have to take it back now After re-flashing the firmware (by first, removing EVERY plug except the USB cable) two times (something was really wrong), installing the most recent driver and getting over some of the steep learning curve (especially conerning the gain staging and dual "INPUT SOURCE" setup), I am actually VERY satisfied now. In fact, this combination (DT25 + POD HD500) sounds AMAZING! It might be the best rig I have ever owned!! I am able to get wondeful tones from nearly ALL of the pres. I don't know what was happening before but...I LOVE THIS SETUP!!! Everything seems to sound and work the way I expected it would

MeAmBobbo's PodHD Guide was VERY helpful to me in getting this all sorted out. For those who are frustrated, don't give up until you read through his sections about "harsh tone' and "gain staging".

All the best,

Rich



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by kisscool82 on 2012-05-21 22:37:24

I agree too !



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by kisscool82 on 2012-05-21 22:43:03

I spent hours reading the manuals, MeAmBobbo's guide,  forums, trying customtone presets, etc.

I tried different setings : level settings (pod and/or amp), I use the right pre amp model, etc.

I've already flashed the formware (DT50 and Pod).

The sound is cold, thin, 2 dimensions as you said before.

Please guitar4u, can you explain how you've get this amazing sound.

Thx



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by hollis1003 on 2012-05-22 04:39:45

I finally have my POD HD 500 and DT-50 at home.  Instead of trying to get all 4 voicings the same is there one or two in particular you would like to replicate?

I can work on it today any tomorrow and post the tones here.



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by TheRealZap on 2012-05-22 05:42:12

the second "preamp" tube is a booster, to aid in feeding the modeled pre-amp to the power amp at the appropriate level.



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by kisscool82 on 2012-05-22 08:50:06

For example, the voicing III / pentode / class AB



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by kisscool82 on 2012-05-22 08:54:30

I just read the 4 cables method guide. Can it be a good solution to use the original DT50 pre amp sound and just use the POD HD 500 for FX ?

Another question, with 4CM can I use HD500 to completly configure my DT50 with midi signal ? (voicing, pentode/triode, class A or A/B, EQ, etc).



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by aeugle on 2012-05-22 09:40:32

I agree that would also be interesting for me. -> Patches please

Regards

Thomas



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by hollis1003 on 2012-05-22 09:47:11

To get the same sound, here is what I did.

Amp: Class A-30TB Pre  (DT-50 settings the same as you mentioned, Voice III, Class A/B, Pentode)

Cab: 212 Silver Bell  Mic: 57 on XS

The Cab simulation makes a real difference.

Input sources 1 and 2 both set to guitar, guitar in-z set to 1M.  This also makes a big difference.

I made a video of this, so if I get time to upload it and I don't think it's embarassing, I will.



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by hollis1003 on 2012-05-22 12:03:05

OK, so here is the video I promised.  I will upload the patch, but I assure you there is nothing special besides what I noted above.

If you want you can skip from 1:49 to 4:09 in the video and see that the two sounds are exactly the same.  I'm playing the same riff at both times using the POD in the first and the DT in the next.

Here is the link to youtube:

http://youtu.be/B7o8fKpF5_0

class="watch-page-link">I'm having trouble uploading the patch but it's called Voice 3 and should be on Custom Tone under my name... hollis1003.

Here is the tone link:

http://line6.com/customtone/tone/219120/

class="watch-page-link">



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by hollis1003 on 2012-05-22 12:33:15

The 4CM is OK but I would only reccomend using it with other amps.  The only reason I can think of to use 4CM over the L6 link is to save DSP space in the POD.  In my opinion the pre-amps use so little DSP you can still fill up all the effects blocks and not run out unless you are using multiple reverbs or harmony effects that take up lots of DSP.

Using the 4CM means you are running lots of unneeded cable that is going to add unwanted noise and signal degridation to your tone.  The L6 link is a digital link that is one cable from the POD to the DT.  This is super clean and there is no signal degredation.

You can do what you have proposed above, but in my opinion it is not worth the hassle unless you are using the 4CM with a very expensive amp with a sound you cannot get out of the POD.



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by TheRealZap on 2012-05-22 12:38:00

cool video, love the musicman... those are sweet.

you see these?

http://www.pedalboardlabels.com/epages/es138465.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es138465/Categories/Line6_HD500



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by hollis1003 on 2012-05-22 12:41:02

thank you Zap.

I was using those labels.  I love the way they look but they move around too much and I broke two of them already.  Sukh is a great guy.  I may use them again sometime. 

If you look you'll see that I only use 12 patches but I need them to be really clear on stage because I have some very special effects programmed for certain songs and I can't be on the wrong preset.  Also, the top banks have multiple effects based on the preset.



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by hollis1003 on 2012-05-22 13:08:39

http://youtu.be/OgeCz645q7Q

Part2.  This time I turned up the volume quite a bit so you don't hear the acoustic strings of the guitar.  Listening back to this I do think the DT-50 was maybe a tad bit more dirty and breaking up over the POD but the basic tone was exactly the same.



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by guitar4u on 2012-05-22 14:35:17

kisscool82,

1. I have a different amp and cab; my DT25 head is hooked up to a Vox 2x12 cabinet loaded with 80-watt Celestion "Neo Dog" speakers. The DT25 is a different sounding amp altogether and to my ears, sounds better than the DT50. It breaks up quicker (naturally, it is a lower-wattage amp) and it's easier to get the power tubes involved to influence the tone more without bringing down the house. So, an important difference to note there!

2. My HD500 did not successfully take the first, or even the second flash of current firmware. We aren't talking simple, "sterile" or "2-dimensional" tones here. We are talking, digital clipping and harsh nasties on nearly EVERY setting. The high end was piercing and the tones were mostly unusable. The third time I flashed the unit I unplugged EVERYTHING (S/PDIF, AES cable, MIDI cable, etc.) except for the USB cable and it was a night and day improvement

3. The MOST important thing is to get the gain staging right and it's not (necessarily) set up, out of the box for that. It seems to be set up for dual input, stereo rigs. So, first I go to the mixer, and set Path A to MUTE and Path B to center (pan) and 0db (unity gain). Then, I go to "INPUT SOURCE" and make sure "Guitar" or "Variax" is selected on input one and something that is not being used, like "Aux" for input two. The default "Same" setting for the second input is erroneous and can cause digital clipping because it multiplies the signal. The same is true for setting both inputs to "Guitar". People may prefer the increased loudness of doubling these inputs but further down the signal chain, they are setting themselves up for digital clipping. Make sense? This is VERY important to get right

4. Finally, I have found that the "Channel Volume" or "CH VOL" is the most transparent (having the least impact on tone). Additionally, I found that to really wake the amp up and get the whole tube thang happenin', you need to get those power tubes involved. For the DT25, it means setting the MASTER VOLUME at 1 o'clock, which is where I leave it. I start with the channel volume at zero and turn it up to the desired listening volume. "Drive" and preamp volume are handled separately for the specific tone(s) I am going for.

That's the best I can offer you. These things combined have gotten me to the tone nirvana I was hoping for. No, it isn't exactly like running all of these tube amps in real life but it is DAMN close and good 'nuff for me

I hope you get it all sorted out and wish you the best in achieving the tones you are hoping for

Rich



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by kisscool82 on 2012-05-22 22:46:56

I understand this advantages using L6link, but the I can get a correct sound with my DT50 and POD HD500. I don't think my ears are better than the others. But I'm sure the sound is different with ou without the POD.

There's too many post in the forum, I'm not the only one. I'ts very very boring, and Line6 doesn't answer. I'm very disappointed with the attitude of line6 support. I ask myself to resell amp + pod.



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by hollis1003 on 2012-05-23 09:19:38

Look, I proved with the above video that the same exact sound can be acheived. 

Do whatever you need to do to find your sound.



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by aeugle on 2012-05-24 04:03:42

which, video?

Please post the link.

TXS

Thomas



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by hollis1003 on 2012-05-24 04:43:40

There are two links to videos I made above and the custom tone I downloaded.



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by kisscool82 on 2012-06-12 23:35:25

Hi !

I've watched hollis videos. I've done the same test and there's finally a real difference between DT50 stand alone and with Pod HD500.

I've done another test, and I noticed one thing :

In one hand I plug my guitar in DT50, no HD 500. In the other hand I plug my guitar in the pod HD 500 input. Connected with L6link to the DT500. Pod has no preset, no amp model, anything. I didn't change the DT50 params.

I should have the same sound, right ? But it sounds different with the Pod.

Same test with the pod bypassed, and DT50 standalone. I reconize the sound of the DT500, but still different. Now I'm sure it's the Pod which makes my sound ugly.

What quality are the A/D converter ? Maybe the problem is just here. It could be understandable with the pod price...



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by hollis1003 on 2012-06-13 04:36:46

There is absolutely NO difference. Period. 

Although I did not extensively test Voicing I, for the other voicings to match up on the POD you use the pre-amp model and the cabinet simulation.  With the L6 link established the correct output on the POD should be chosen automatically.  They are exactly the same!!!!!

Switching the POD to "no amp" is not the same thing as plugging directly into the front of the DT.  I can't fully explain why, but there is something going on in the POD that I think changes something with the volumes.

If you cannot get them to sound the same you either have a defect in you POD, it is not updated with the most recent software, the DT is not updated, or you are doing something wrong.  It only takes one thing to be wrong on the POD to screw up the entire sound and it could be a very simple fix.

Without physically being there to see what you are doing and looking through the POD screens, it is virtually impossible to know what the problem is.



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by kisscool82 on 2012-06-13 04:55:27

I'm sur I've done everything good. I spend many hours on forum topics, guides, etc. The lastest firmware are installed in pod and dt50.

Maybe my pod is deficient. What can I do ?



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by TheRealZap on 2012-06-13 04:57:23

switching the pod to no amp, would be WYSIWYG if i recall correctly.... one note though... any effects placed post would be lost... because the signal will not travel back to the pod to pick them up.



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by hollis1003 on 2012-06-13 07:24:48

I'm not here to argue but I basically "proved" my point by uploading a video of me duplicating Voicing III.  Are you saying that in my video they don't sound the same? After the fact I did more testing and got Voicing II and IV to sound exactly the same as well. 

Again, at this point, I have to say it comes down to the individual user and something with your setup is out of whack.  I've been playing guitar for 25 years and using Line 6 stuff since the first POD came out.

I was under the impression that the cab modelling was off but turning it on in the POD made quite a difference.

The last thing I will say about this is that if you cannot get the tone you want then use the 4cm.  If that is not what you want to do, then get something that will work for you.

If you are open minded maybe you can find someone in your area with the same setup (DT and POD) and you can work together.



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by sukh_ryatt on 2012-06-24 10:41:42

Hey brother! Sukh here from pedalboardlabels.com

Not wanting to hijack the thread, so just a quick note to let you know that we are close to launching KickTags v2, which are considerably more robust than v1 and with much stronger magnets. You can check out progress on our Facebook page (just look up 'Sukh Pedalboardlabels').

I really love the HD500 - great board - and I think v2 of our KickTags will really do it proper justice.

Cheers! Sukh



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by innovine on 2013-03-13 08:41:31

I dont think switching the pod to no amp is the same as ttransparent passthrough, or plugging in direct. For starters, the in'ut pad switch and the choice of second input (same, variax, aux) and the input impedence may play a roll. Th're may be other gain stages like the mixer too. Possibly even more. My guess is that the issue lies with some of these settings, as i think the preamps are close enough actually. For me, i can cycle through the different cab models and hear the differences, but also hear the same lifeless digital 2d quality on all the settings. So i think its not exactly the modelling, but something in the rest of the pod setup. This may explain why some people notice no difference, and some do. I have reproduced the tests exactly as nick described, and still hear an obvious difference, a difference which sounds like what kisscool describes. Im betting there is something common to our setups that nick and hollis dont have



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by spaceatl on 2013-03-13 12:18:53

Might be a little easier to try using the Power Amp IN approach....Set up the tone on the DT25 alone....Then Connect your HD500 to the DT25 power amp input instead of using the link using the empty PRE model only patch...Then you know that the topo will not change at all and you can tinker with the cabs and such in the HD and DT topo will remain unaffected...I am sure this has been brought up before, but this takes the whole link out of the equation...I found the exercise helpful when I was comparing models across HD Desktop, HD400, DT50 and DT25...



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by innovine on 2013-03-14 11:35:56

I think i might have come up with something. I was poking around in the output settings (studio/direct, combo, stack etc) to hear what they sounded like. Anyway, i put it back to combo but now my quality issue is gone. My patch sounds super close to the dt25,

just a tiny twist of the eq i guess. Much, much better than before. I have no idea what changed, since i put it back yo combo again. Maybe just changing it affected something, a minor bug or something. It was on combo since before i got the dt25, i think i checked it and saw it was set correctly and never touched ite seems like messing around in there did something anyway!! its also possible i touched en some other option but i dont think so.



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by TheRealZap on 2013-03-14 11:52:05

the L6Link will set the output mode automatically... but of course it only works correctly if things are turned on it the right order..

i remember reading somewhere that the DT needed turned on first, or it wouldn't catch the output settings on powerup of the pod...

or something to that effect.

I can't remember where i read that... or what firmware revision was out at the time...

just something you might look at.



Re: DT50 voicings sounds differently than Pod HD500 pre-amps
by evilmikehoo on 2013-03-14 14:30:03

I think you're on to something there. I've noticed that, with DTEdit, if I start it up before turning on the amp, I gotta either switch things around a few times before it starts to work right - or close the DTEdit and restart it. Theoptimizer also has a great iPhone app (which I highly recommend) that acts the same way. He even gives the instruction to turn on the amp first, then launch the app. I've done the opposite a few times, not thinking, and things were kinda screwy.




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