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JTV-59 12 String Models - Possible Latency and Pitch Issue?
by rokgod1 on 2012-01-20 18:49:40

I just bought a JTV-59 and to check it out, I'm running it directly into Mackie Tracktion digital recording software, VST plugin AmpliTube1.xle on clean setting, When I dial up all of the 12 string models- on predominantly the 5th and 6th strings, I'm hearing slight latency of one of the octaves and it kind of quickly slides up to the intended note. It sounds very synthetic compared to the rest of the strings, and even compared to my first generation Variax 500s (I have two).

I also ordered a JTV-69 due to arrive in a couple of days, which I will test the same way to see if the same issue crops up with it. But in the meantime, I can't help but think there might be either a modeling and/or tracking issue. I can record the guitar an uload an mp3 if it will help clarify what I'm trying to explain.

Anyone else hearing this, or is this the "improved" modeling, or ???

Love everything else about the guitar so far.



Re: JTV-59 12 String Models - Possible Latency and Pitch Issue?
by Nick_Mattocks on 2012-01-21 01:42:10

Hi

Yes.  ALL my previous and current Variaxes initially had this problem inc my JTV-59 and JTV-89.

The 12 string models have to use pitch shifting obviously to achieve the second 'virtual' string in each pair of strings.

The 'virtual' string will have been preset to an octave up for four strings in each pairing and to the same pitch for the other two virtual strings (E and B).   Line 6's engineers have introduced a mechanisim for detuning each virtual string by an adjustable amount of cents and with an adjustable mix (volume) level.

The defaults are what you are using I guess as your guitar is so new.  In my humble opinion the default detune and string mix levels for all the 12 string guitar models have been way overcooked - but I have also noticed that the problem you are hearing can be perceived as somewhat better or worse dependent on what you are monitoring through.

Another thing which can affect the amount of 'warble' you hear is how good the intonation and tuning is on the guitar.  Both are important.  You might need to have the guitar set up as the factory set up with the JTV series, like any other new guitar is a standard but not necessarily perfect job.

There is possibly a slight underlying tendency for some warble given the nature of the pitch shifting process used anyway.

Here's what I've done with ALL my 5 VDI capable Variaxes to improve the situation so that it is not noticeable.

  1. Update the Variax firmware to the latest version.
  2. Load Variax WorkBench and adjust the detune for each virtual string to +/- 1 or 2 cents maximum
  3. Adjust the mix level for each virtual string to 20% or 30%
  4. Save the modified settings to the guitar
  5. Adjust intonation and string action as necessary to be accurate and to avoid any fret buzzes
  6. Take care not to mis-fret or be at all heavy handed in playing the guitar as heavy handedness can cause intonation problems as strings slightly bent too far by pressing too hard can drift plus, the JTV fret height is slightly greater I think than say a standard Les Paul or Strat - or at least it seems so

The main trick here is to make any warbling less noticeable, but I have to say it works for me and I am someone who prefers an accurately tuned 12 string guitar even with my real ones rather than an overly detuned and too 'jangly' one.

The current firmware version for the JTV series guitars is version 1.71 however in the last few days we have been given advance notice of a new firmware version coming soon which will feature 5 remodelled versions of the acoustic models in the JTV guitars including the two 12 string acoustics.  Hopefully this new firmware will address the problem you describe with respect to at least the acoustic 12 string models and hopefully the two electric 12 string models too.  The new firmware version is numbered 1.18 and other features have also been added which enhance working with a POD HD500 or POD HD Pro in other ways.

HTH

Regards

Nick



Re: JTV-59 12 String Models - Possible Latency and Pitch Issue?
by rokgod1 on 2012-01-21 06:37:29

Thanks Nick! This is extremely helpful and I think your solution is excellent. I've got studio grade monitiors that don't hide anything, so I'm sure that if I tweak as you suggest, the models will be great in live situations through an amp.

Thanks also for validating that I'm not crazy....well...not for this reason anyway!

I've been using Line 6 amplificaion and guitars for over a decade now and the forums have always been great on those rare occasions when I need some help.

Appreciate it a lot.

Lee



Re: JTV-59 12 String Models - Possible Latency and Pitch Issue?
by rokgod1 on 2012-02-06 11:30:31

Just following up....


Nick, I did everything you suggested and although they were fine, I paid to have  both my 59 & 69 professionally set up again. Even minimizing the detune and adjusting the mix, the slight glide of the virtual strings when the lower strings are plucked is audibile, whether direct to recording devices or amplified, albet slightly better. Interestingly, the issue didn't go away on a detune to zero, either.

And in a full band situation, it's not a big deal- it's the solo passages. The 12 string models on my old 500's were great and heard the newer  generations were even better, which was why I wanted to upgrade.

I'm hoping the firmware update (when it comes) will address this. I'll keep you posted...

Other than that, I'm extremely happy!



Re: JTV-59 12 String Models - Possible Latency and Pitch Issue?
by rokgod1 on 2012-04-25 15:16:02

Just watched the firm update video on youtube, and sadly, the issue I described about the  virtual (E-A-D especially) strings on all 12-string models "gliding" up to the note when picked isn't resolved. It's noticibly audible in the viideo when the demo switches to the Guild 12 string. So it kind of narrows things down to either an inherent virtual string tracking issue or the modeling and/or the software. It is very unnatural sounding, and grates on me when there are sections of music when only a 12-string is called for. It's the only negative I have on my JTV Variaxes.

And I hate to harp on it, but I am because my first generation 500s' 12 string settings did not have this issue whatsoever, and in some situations sounded more natural. I guess my expectation was that almost ten years into the technology the models on a new release would exceed prior modeling on all levels. And when you spend almost three grand on two guitars they really should do what they're supposed to. So I'm a bit disappointed because my expectations weren't met- a first for Line 6. I've been a loyal Line 6 user of guitars and amplification for over a decade. No doubt, there are some great upgraded features and I truly enjoy playing the JTV Variaxes...but at the moment only about 90% of the time.



Re: JTV-59 12 String Models - Possible Latency and Pitch Issue?
by Line6Hugo on 2012-04-27 09:35:22

Sorry about your disappointment in the pitch shift tracking of the guitar, but it is currently in the nature of the instrument to have this glide at times.  We have worked on improving it, which is apparent when comparing the newer models to older Variaxes (which was worse), but seem it does not meet your expectation.  That's not to say it is unusable, as there are thousands of customers with this instrument happily using these models.  Hopefully there is room for improvement in the tracking in a future update, but at the moment it is the nature of the guitar.

I recommend submitting a feature request at the following link:

http://line6.com/company/contact/productfeedback/

Regards,

Line6Hugo

">http://line6.com/company/contact/productfeedback/">http://line6.com/company/contact/productfeedback/

Regards,

Line6Hugo




The information above may not be current, and you should direct questions to the current forum or review the manual.