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Line 6 Rep or JTV69 owners; minimum distance from e strings to slope of fret
by Sean_Clarke on 2012-04-09 07:12:43

Hello

I had this problem on both e strings, read the threads on this forum about the Quality Control issue line 6 had with the fret angles filing etc. and returned my guiar 'as instructed on this formum' to be (I assumed) fixed.

After paying for the postage  it to be returned to Line 6 UK (both ways) it was returned with nothing done and just a note saying it was 'in tollerence'.

So, One simple question for line 6 before I take this further- what is the tollerance you allow from a string to 'off the neck' (I consuider this the start of the down slope of the fret).?

If it is publised and I am indeed in tollerence I shall drop the matter and pay to get my neck replaced myself.

FYI, If anyone at Line 6 cares, I am making  video for utube to show just how bad these necks are with a close up of the string over the slope of the fret and the letter from Line 6 UK saying thats how it is supposed to be!



Re: Line 6 Rep or JTV69 owners; minimum distance from e strings to slope of fret
by Sean_Clarke on 2012-04-11 05:40:41

Bass E top 0.6mm.JPG

Bass Bottom 2.7mm.JPG

Anyone care to comment?

Gap to slope on top (high and low e strings about 0.65 measured with a micrometer. Gap after 12th fret 2.6mm- And Line 6 say this is the way 'James Tyler' designed it to be - anyone have his email address, he has designed a guitar that I can't play.



Re: Line 6 Rep or JTV69 owners; minimum distance from e strings to slope of fret
by litesnsirens on 2012-04-11 12:26:45

Hey Sean I have seen your issue and many other readers having the same issue in various threads.  I think you should keep up this fight, this is a design flaw, no question.  The specs should be such that a mm here or there on the filing shouldn't affect the playability of the guitar.  To me in Line 6 has said that your guitar is within spec, then it's the spec itself that is flawed.  For all we know the place you sent it for repair isn't aware of just how many JTV69 users are having difficulty with the strings slipping off.  Personally I don't think that even if they show you that the specs are such that you should let them off the hook.  If the guitar is unplayable by the number of players that are reporting this issue, who cares what they call "spec"?  I doubt the factory in Korea can file the frets steep enough to eliminate this problem, not even if they make the frets so sharp that they cut your fingers up.  This is a real issue and I think Line 6 needs to step up and address it.



Re: Line 6 Rep or JTV69 owners; minimum distance from e strings to slope of fret
by Sean_Clarke on 2012-04-12 07:06:09

Thanks, I intend top persue it; I can't belive a suingle Line 6 rep hasn't commented.

I am forwarding the detials of my consumer complaint to the UK Trading Standards, then Line 6 will have to comment officially

I don't know what it is like in the US- but in the UK sellers can't get away with this lkind of shoddy 'just put up with it' treatment.



Re: Line 6 Rep or JTV69 owners; minimum distance from e strings to slope of fret
by sdunmire on 2012-04-12 13:16:23

I love it when people go running to some authority such as the government or the Better Business Bureau every time they don't like a product.  There is no law (anywhere, that I'm aware of) against making a product that people don't like. If you don't like it, return it.  Just because 100 people believe the "spec" is wrong doesn't make it so, since there is no agreed-upon standard for what a "right spec" should look like. 

What's next, calling UK Trading Standards because the new 1.8 guitar sounds are too "roomy?"



Re: Line 6 Rep or JTV69 owners; minimum distance from e strings to slope of fret
by litesnsirens on 2012-04-12 15:53:31

Well I'm just glad your JTV69 was perfect for you right out of the box and that you like the spacing of the strings on it. 



Re: Line 6 Rep or JTV69 owners; minimum distance from e strings to slope of fret
by sdunmire on 2012-04-12 20:54:55

Who said it was?  I'm just saying that such things aren't particularly effective at getting resolution nor is it appropriate to complain because of a difference of opinion about how a guitar should be built. 



Re: Line 6 Rep or JTV69 owners; minimum distance from e strings to slope of fret
by MerlinFL on 2012-04-12 21:58:27

Here's a photo of my second JTV-89KN.  My first was unplayable due to the frets being too wide for the neck and literally cutting my fingers while trying to play.  This second one was hand picked by the Line 6 Sales Rep working at AmericanMusicalSupply.com which is perfect and without any flaws.  I simply asked to speak to a CS supervisor, and calmly explained why I was sending back the guitar I had, what was wrong and that this was a well known and documented problem by line 6. She then said it would be handled in the manner I previously described.  It saved everyone much time, stress and money for AMS by making certain that the guitar being sent was exactly as it should have been before shipping it out.  I thin kif all owners took this calm, but firm approach, any reputable retailer company should be able to do what was done for me.  I have now a special rapport with AMS, but I didn't befoee this situation ocurred.

Here's my photo of what I believe is how most or all of the string on any JTV model should line up.

DSC02268.jpg

Neal



Re: Line 6 Rep or JTV69 owners; minimum distance from e strings to slope of fret
by litesnsirens on 2012-04-12 22:53:02

sdunmire, he's been told that the issue, which numerous users are experiencing, isn't going to be fixed because it's spec.  He's not the only one who thinks that if that's spec, then they have "spec'd" a guitar that for many has a glaring issue.  I imagine if they spec'd a guitar that had all 22 frets jammed into the space between the nut and the normal position of the 3rd fret, also rendering the guitar unplayable that users should also not post any complaints.

Yes that example is obviously a stretch but I'm just making the point that there has to be a limit somewhere along the way where a company will say "Ya, you know what, lots of people are having issues with these necks.  Maybe, just maybe we should look into it." instead of "everyone's wrong James Tyler designed it therefore it's perfect!"

That doesn't really help everyone who can't play their guitars, or at least have to avoid using an entire string or two and Get By on the inner 4 strings.  It may have been wrong of me to assume your JTV69 was perfect out of the box, if it wasn't please share how you fixed the issue so that the OP doesn't have to make threads that you don't care for.  I'm positive he'd just rather fix the issue than come on here and complain.  Or maybe it was perfect out of the box, you have really said one way or the other you just posted the question "Who said it was?" which is neither a denial or admission as to whether my assumption as to the condition of your JTV 69 when you received it was or was not correct.  So I'm just asking which is correct and if you had to fix it how did you do it, let's help thus guy get his guitar playable.



Re: Line 6 Rep or JTV69 owners; minimum distance from e strings to slope of fret
by sdunmire on 2012-04-12 23:55:31

@litesnsirens,

I didn't talk about my situation because it wasn't relevant to my point. Which was wondering why people feel they should complain to the authorities when a particular company's product works in a way that they disagree with.  The instrument in question almost surely was purchased with a so-many-days-satisfaction-guarantee and (presumably) the problem was there all along. 

So, rather than returning the product and moving on, the OP thinks the right thing is to keep the instrument and complain.  L6 may be propagating a poor design, but they are well within their legal rights to do so, as long as they are not engaging in unfair trading practices.  (Is it really unfair when  the customer had a reasonable opportunity to get their money back and presumably forfeited this opportunity?)

Groups like Fair Trading and the US BBB were set up to prevent customers from being scammed.  This might be relevant if L6's dealers weren't allowed to take product back from unhappy customers, but that isn't the case here.

I'm guessing the OP knew the problem existed from the day he got his guitar and chose to keep it and attempt to resolve it rather than return it.  This was his call, and given how amazingly awesome this guitar is otherwise, I might have made the same judgment. But you can't ignore the remedies provided and complain of unfair trade,  that's just plain irresponsible.

As for "how to fix" his guitar, there are a few options:

Have a luthier tweak it.

Replace the neck with a Warmoth neck, slightly wider

Alter his playing style

Try to appeal to Line 6' "humanity"

Live with it

And, the final one, the OP's suggestion of contacting a consumer watchdog organization. 



Re: Line 6 Rep or JTV69 owners; minimum distance from e strings to slope of fret
by Sean_Clarke on 2012-04-13 02:09:53

Interesting attitude. I prefer not to let people (and companies are just people) walk all over me.

I am a line 6 'fan'. I have the DT25 and HD500+ POD Farm , had a Variax 700 and Variax accoustic, older pods etc. I don't post very often and seldom complain on forums or anyware else. I have been playing guitar for 25 years and have played 100's of guitars (I still own 15), I have never had or seen a neck this bad.

  • I recieved the guitar- I persivered and tried to adapt my playing style, it didn't work, the strings are not parralell and run off 2mm. Other users have 2mm at the top fret where I have 0.6-7mm, clearly there are manufacturing tollerences, but this seems extream.
  • I checked the firum and found this was a common problem, a Line 6 Rep admited there was a quality problem with frets- other people retunred guitars and had them fixed.
  • I called UK Line 6, described the problem and was told to return it to the shop I bought from (I had to pay postage), they sent it to Line 6 who said it was 'in tollerence' and I had to pay again to have it posted back.
  • I requested information on what the accepatble tollerence was, they would not give it to me - this is why I will persue this.

If my guitar is witin the 'secret' tollerence for strings falling off frets, then I will simply drop it, and everyone will know what the range is. If this is how it is by design, people need to know as they wont be expecting it (if they buy mail order) and can't return it based on it being faulty. A lot of people seem to have trouble with the neck, I just want to know if it is a group of people who have an extreme (but acceptable to line 6) tollerence or maybe we are just a group of people who don't get on with this design. I would assume it was a design issue if it was not for the fact that I am 0.6mm at the top and 2.6 at the 15th fret - all my other guitars strings run parallel!



Re: Line 6 Rep or JTV69 owners; minimum distance from e strings to slope of fret
by sdunmire on 2012-04-13 06:37:04

Clarification:  by "top" fret do you mean the 1st fret or the 22nd?



Re: Line 6 Rep or JTV69 owners; minimum distance from e strings to slope of fret
by Line6Hugo on 2012-04-13 10:23:37

Sean,

With this specific JTV guitar topic, we have to take them on a case by case basis as this has a lot to do with player preference and not everyone is affected by it.  I will open a support ticket for you to continue our conversation.  Please use the following link to view your ticket:

http://line6.com/account/tickets/

Regards,

Line6Hugo

">http://line6.com/account/tickets/">http://line6.com/account/tickets/

Regards,

Line6Hugo



Re: Line 6 Rep or JTV69 owners; minimum distance from e strings to slope of fret
by chlprod on 2013-04-09 15:37:01

I had a beautiful seathru red JTV-69US with maple fretboard. Fantastic guitar and an awsome neck. BUT I had to return it because the high E string slipped of to easy. I am a pro and this should not be the case with JT guitars.

I have tried one more 69US with rosewood and it was a little better on the tight estring slippage part.

During the swedish guitar show 2013 I will test a "Real" James Tyler. If that is without this strange behaviour I will by it and live without the awsome technology that line6 provides. It's very important for me that the instrument works flawless. A pitty.

The swedish distributor will have their tech guy look at the maple neck and check if something can be done with the saddle.

Regards /C



Re: Line 6 Rep or JTV69 owners; minimum distance from e strings to slope of fret
by mike-w on 2013-04-09 17:16:51

Had the same issue with my JTV-69. This is the 1st I've heard of the US having this issue. Line 6 replaced my neck. It is better but still too narrow. Here used to be threads here here people liked the guitar enough to put a Warmouth neck on it. That is my plan B. this has been a longstanding issue though. Seems like they would retool to address it by now.



Re: Line 6 Rep or JTV69 owners; minimum distance from e strings to slope of fret
by phil_m on 2013-04-10 07:13:47

Part of it is that the JTV69 nut is just pretty narrow. I have JTV69US with a maple neck, and while I don't mind it, I can see why some people wouldn't like it.



Re: Line 6 Rep or JTV69 owners; minimum distance from e strings to slope of fret
by chlprod on 2013-04-10 20:52:25

I love that guitar, the neck and the playability is addictive, everything with the guitar is worth every penny, craftmanship etc. The maple fingerboard is a dream.

I am a gentle player, no abuse, jazz-fusion-rock-pop. It's just that when u don't expect it, the E string falls of the saddle. The "close to the end of the fretboard" is by design and As you say it's take it or leave it. I have spoken to the distributor and agreed on testing it when they have adjusted or assembled a new saddle.

One of my guitars is a really nice VGS "Tommy Denander" signature, the e-string is also close to the edge but when you play it you never fall od that edge or the string itself dont fall off.

It's no "this is crap" intention from my side with THIS jtvUS, just a sad reaction that I wanted it to be in perfect playable condition - that way I could keep her.

/



Re: Line 6 Rep or JTV69 owners; minimum distance from e strings to slope of fret
by phil_m on 2013-04-10 20:59:57

So the E-string was actually falling off the saddle? I don't think that's acceptable. What I have seen is more the string slipping off the edge of the neck.




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