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POD H500 / JTV-89 - Changing patch resets selected tuning, bug ?
by killergege on 2012-04-16 09:03:55

Hi,

Today I had a really annoying issue during my band's rehearsal : it seems that the selected tuning on my JTV-89 connected to a HD500 through VDI constantly resets to standard.

We're playing Drop C songs and each time I change my patch, the tuning resets to default so I have to turn the tuning knob to get my tuning back.

I checked and my patch is set to "Don't force" for the model and the tuning, so I think it should change anything.

Worse : if I select my patch, with the tuning knob already to Drop C, I enable the tuner, it shows a standard E tuning.

Then I move the tuning button, keeping the tuner enabled : it shows the correct tuning.

Then if I step on the button of the same patch (to close the tuner) and enable the tuner again, the tuning is back to E.

I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or if this is a bug. It seem to occur with all my patches where input is set to "Variax" or "Guitar + Variax".

POD & Variax are fully updated. I'm familiar with the POD but I just bought the variax so maybe I missed something.

The workaround I use is to use the standard "guitar" cable and the battery, but I'm losing the benefits of the VDI connection.

Anyone else has that issue ?

PS : I also submitted this question on the POD HD forum : http://line6.com/support/message/370713">http://line6.com/support/message/370713">http://line6.com/support/message/370713



Re: POD H500 / JTV-89 - Changing patch resets selected tuning, bug ?
by MerlinFL on 2012-04-16 10:14:37

I'm glad you brought this up - I've been so tied up in the non-functional acoustic alternate tunings, I forgot this was happening as well.  Thanks for reporting it.  I'll back you up on it so it will be hopefully acted upon if not already known in the Line 6 lab.

Just out of curiosity - are you changing complete patches, or just changing some aspects of a patch when you get this "sticking" problem?

I have a work-around solution for you that will stop this from happening, but I'm curious what you are doing causing this is happening to you?

Please let me know and I'll type up the work-around for you.  You'll not be bothered by this again going forward if you don't mind doing a ltittle reprogramming on your HD500?  Once the "fix" of 1.81 comes out, then you will have the choice to leave the work you did, or go back to just the alt tunings on the guitar.

Just know that you're not "stuck".  Just - as the old saying goes - more than one way to skin a cat.

Let me know what you think and of you want to try my work-around?

Take care,

Neal

PS - I also submitted a "Trouble Ticket" for this problem on your behalf as well as mine.



Re: POD H500 / JTV-89 - Changing patch resets selected tuning, bug ?
by litesnsirens on 2012-04-16 16:03:26

I unfortunately learned about this at a gig, I don't know if this is a slightly different problem from JTV89 to JTV69 but it's absolutely consistent with the JTV69 if you engage the tuner and then come out of it.  For instance if I put my JTV69 in blues G tuning and then step on the tuner all the strings will register on the tuner as if the strings were tuned to Blues G.  Then when I step on any footswitch to come out of tuning mode I'm automatically transported to standard tuning.  In one of my bands we play 1/2 step down (Eb).  So I figured I would set up force tuning for all my patches but even if I step on one of those patches to come out of the tuner I am in standard tuning and have to step in the FS a second time to force the tuning into the tuning that is stored with the patch.  So this is obviously a bug with either the JTV or the HD500 so hopefully Line 6 gets on this right away.



Re: POD H500 / JTV-89 - Changing patch resets selected tuning, bug ?
by MerlinFL on 2012-04-16 18:20:54

I'm pretty certain that this tuning issue is on the JTV side of things.  I've done much with all this gear I can't speak about publicly, but after all the trials, the issues of tuning lie with the JTV 99.9% of the time in my experience.

Have you tried stepping back onto the TapTempo/Tuner FS instead of going direct to a patch?  If so, does this same glitch occur?  If not tried, perhaps try that and see if it still has the same issue with switching to standard.

Also as I've read on your post, you play 1/2 step down.  I would suggest physically tuning the guitar the 1/2 step and save yourself one problem at least.  Plus for any dual patches like combining mags & Models, you'd need to do that anyway.  All tunings from the physical string tuning is what the guitar generates.  The JTV guitar does not "know" if your strings are tuned to (440) standard, or any other tuning.  All alternate tuning is based off of the physical tuning of your guitar.

For example - the "standard" tuning slot on the alt tuning knob is not literally (440) standard tuning

It is just one way of "forcing" the guitar to play what the strings are physically tuned to if you had a patch with a Workbench created or Dynamically created alternate tuning and you wanted or needed to go to your strings physical tuning for any reason and not simply shut off the modeling by going direct to mags. 

This would accomplish the same thing, but what if your patch was an acoustic guitar of some kind (and all was working properly with alternate tunings like in JTV 1.71), or a Sitar, or a Banjo - that wouldn't work would it?  So the engineers thought to add this "seemingly useless feature" on the alt tuning knob for just such an occasion.

You have a model in an alternate tuning, and you want to keep that guitar sound, but need the tuning to be standard - there it is on the guitar.  You also cannot store dynamically created alternate tunings to that slot either...probably for the same reason the engineers originally decided upon.

Hope this adds soe more light to why the guitar does what it does when all is working correctly.

Take care,

Neal

PS - my HD500 just blew up and I'm 100% screwed unless I can get someone to help me fix the problem before my gigs that start Thursday thru Sunday!!  Aaaaaaaggggghhhhh!!!! 



Re: POD H500 / JTV-89 - Changing patch resets selected tuning, bug ?
by litesnsirens on 2012-04-16 19:45:24

What do you mean your HD500 blew up??  Did anyone get hurt??  Seriously what happened?

I have tried just stepping back on the actual tuner button to exit the tuner mode.  As far as tuning my guitar to Eb physically I tried that when I first got the guitar and although it could have been user error I really had a lot of trouble trying to make my own alternate tunings after that.  The ones built in worked fine but I couldn't seem to make my own.  It worked a lot better after I went back to standard tuning.  Plus I play in another band that plays in standard tuning so tuning to standard tuning seemed to be the lessor of two evils all things considered.  I also have a strat and a Paul Reed Smith as back ups.  I would love to acutally buy another JTV for back up. I may yet.  I would probaby get the JTV 89 next, I think if I wanted to eventually do a transplant that would be the easier guitar to trasnplant, no pick guard I could order a body from Warmoth and then the only extra routing would be on the back of the guitar. 

Whatever the tuning issue is HD500 or JTV I hope Line 6 gets it figured out.  I am assuming that this issue doesn't happen on the JTV89.  Strange that it's different from JTV to JTV.



Re: POD H500 / JTV-89 - Changing patch resets selected tuning, bug ?
by MerlinFL on 2012-04-16 19:57:19

I didn't mean literally blew up - I meant it is for all practical purposes dead right now as it is stuck in a boot loop.

Yes - it happens on the 89 as well as the 59.  I have both, my 59 is a US version and my 89 is a Korean version.

Honestly, if one model has a problem like this, they all should since the guts are all the same.

Thanks for asking and we'll just wait for the patch when Line 6 comes up with one.  I have no doubt they are working everyday on this set of glitches related to the latest 1.81 update.

Take care,

Neal



Re: POD H500 / JTV-89 - Changing patch resets selected tuning, bug ?
by litesnsirens on 2012-04-16 20:02:24

Hey Neal I can help you with the HD500 same thing happened to me.  Hold down the right nav key while you power on the HD500 this will at least take it out of the boot loop then connect to computer and reflash the firmware.



Re: POD H500 / JTV-89 - Changing patch resets selected tuning, bug ?
by MerlinFL on 2012-04-17 09:23:36

I appreciate the help, but that holding down left or right nav buttons which should work, do not work in this situation.  I'm not sure what I did, but it's a doozy!

Neal



Re: POD H500 / JTV-89 - Changing patch resets selected tuning, bug ?
by litesnsirens on 2012-04-17 10:25:43

Yikes ...



Re: POD H500 / JTV-89 - Changing patch resets selected tuning, bug ?
by litesnsirens on 2012-04-23 18:39:08

Neal, did you ever get this fixed?  Just curious and hoping you got it all sorted out.



Re: POD H500 / JTV-89 - Changing patch resets selected tuning, bug ?
by killergege on 2012-04-24 01:42:51

Sorry for the late answer.

My issue was when I changed the patch (or used the tuner), I don't recall having that issue when enabling / disabling an effect in the same patch.

But it seems that I solved my issue by reinstalling the Variax firmware so I guess the issue was on the Variax.

I didn't have the opportunity to try it in a rehearsal situation but at home it seems to work.

For your information, the workaround I used was to drop the VDI and use the Variax on battery and the standard audio cable... I lost the model change.

If you have a better idea, please explain ! (in case it happens again ^^)



Re: POD H500 / JTV-89 - Changing patch resets selected tuning, bug ?
by MerlinFL on 2012-04-25 15:23:58

Yes - I did resolve what happened to my original HD500 and I also now have a brand new HD500 that I'm debating whether to keep or not.  I've not opened the shipping carton as I was able to get my original HD500 to work in time for my long weekend work of shows.

Thanks for asking and it's nice to know that a complete stranger cares enough to ask. if I could describe in any way possible that would not take up several pages or perhaps make no sense, I'll just be pleased that i did get it back working.  Now what to do with the brand new unopened HD500?

Thanks again and take care,

Neal

PS - I was involved in a conversation about the ability of a Dream Rig to produce acoustic sounds without any additional amps, or direct to PA.  I've posted my demo in two videos pt.1 & pt.2.  Perhaps it might be useful for others to watch it and leave some thoughts about it.  Please just don't judge me on the playing - I did it all in one take and am not proud of my playing, but the point of the video was served in demonstrating the sounds.

http://line6.com/support/message/372303#372303  This is from post labeled "Fellow Dream Rig Owners".



Re: POD H500 / JTV-89 - Changing patch resets selected tuning, bug ?
by Line6Hugo on 2012-04-27 10:07:01

Just to add, there is a bug with the tuning of a model defaulting back to Standard tuning when exiting out of tuner mode with the JTV guitar connected via VDI when updated to 1.81.  We are currently working on this and look to have it fixed for the next update.

Regards,

Line6Hugo



Re: POD H500 / JTV-89 - Changing patch resets selected tuning, bug ?
by killergege on 2012-04-27 10:11:22

Oh ! That's a good news (that it'll be fixed).

Okay so my example for reproducing it was wrong .

But I also had that issue when switching patches (without using the tuner). Couldn't reproduce it precisely thought.

And now that I reinstalled the firmware it seem to work...



Re: POD H500 / JTV-89 - Changing patch resets selected tuning, bug ?
by MerlinFL on 2012-04-27 10:34:31

Hi Hugo - can you confirm my support ticket has been received? 

And also if this is within your scope of things...could you let me know if my JTV bank suggestion of using Custom Bank 1 for the 1.71 Acoustic Models and the typical Acoustic bank still for the 1.81 models has been received by the people who get those submissions?

I submitted this suggestion over two weeks ago after reading all the posts stating they prefer the older acoustic patch sound, but yet still want the 1.81 functionality.  I thought having one of the Custom Banks used for this purpose would be an excellent option for all the JTV users who like either version of acoustic guitar models.  Plus if able to be done quickly, it would be a resolve to the alt tuning problem with the 1.81 acoustic patches until that issue is resolved.

It seems to me like a "win-win" scenario as the Custom banks really don't have any unique guitar models or tones in either of them. And based on the stock models in both Custom Banks all the way back to the first Variax guitar model banks, Custom Bank 1 doesn't even have any alternate tuned patches like Custom Bank 2 does.

Of course I'm not a tech writer and think it would be fairly easy to change one bank for another?  I might be presuming incorrectly, but its not like anything new would have to be written since that bank of patches already exists.

Any answer to my questions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Neal




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