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pod hd500 vs m13 (true bypass)
by armoredcore80 on 2012-06-06 03:43:19

i know the differences between those machines about the knobs, pedal, input/output, fx...etc...etc...but i'd like to know the sounding differences.

so...i go with my guitar in my pedalboard and than (four cables or not) i use it in front of my combo (tubed). the fact that m13 has the true bypass and the pod hd500 haven't make some differences in the sound? is possible that the m13 is more "true" and the hd500 more "flat"?

i ask it because i have the pod hd500 and i'm thinking about change and buy an m13...

tnx



Re: pod hd500 vs m13 (true bypass)
by litesnsirens on 2012-06-06 04:19:20

I don't think you're going to find that you can hear any difference between the two.  In fact when I owned the M13 I did NOT use it in true bypass mode.  If you are running longer cable runs true bypass doesn't offer any buffer assistance and you can't get delay or reverb trails when switching patches.  To me it's almost like selling a new snack and advertising "no added flavour".  It sounds like it's supposed to be a big plus but it's missing some things that could be helpful to a snack.  "True bypass" sounds like a big plus because it is hyped on but it also means no buffer and no trails so it's missing some really helpful features but when you actually take a bite you don't notice any difference in taste.



Re: pod hd500 vs m13 (true bypass)
by rodney13 on 2012-06-06 05:12:12

I have owned both and ended up with just the m13.  The HD is good but if you only want some Overdrive or chorus for example you are still stuck with amp sims and even if you turn off the amp sim your real amp won't sound like it should as the HD doesn't do true bypass.   The M13 on the other hand does   To me if you like the sound of your amp then why plug a non true bypass unit into it.  I have a M13 into a 100 watt Marshall Plexi and it sounds dam good.   But hey I still do like the HD.



Re: pod hd500 vs m13 (true bypass)
by armoredcore80 on 2012-06-06 05:24:39

the problem is that i can't ear the real sound of my amp (i like it so much! simple fender hotrod deluxe) at any volume of my pod hd500...when i unplug my cable from the pod and run into my combo...well...it's another sound. i tried many settings and connections (4CM)...obviously turning off the amp section of the pod hd500 but...damn it! the sound seems in cage!!!

i need your opinion but i also like to know why is there a difference.

tnx

(sorry for my english...)



Re: pod hd500 vs m13 (true bypass)
by phil_m on 2012-06-06 06:04:10

What output mode are you using on the HD500? If you're using it for effects only, make sure you have in studio direct. When you have everything bypassed on the HD500, it is actually pretty transparent. I used my HD500 for quite a while for effects only with my Deluxe Reverb, and it worked fine. I actually do still own and use the M13, but when set up correctly, I can't say I notice any difference in sound quality between it and the HD500.



Re: pod hd500 vs m13 (true bypass)
by armoredcore80 on 2012-06-06 06:07:38

i tried every output mode...the result is that the sound is never like that when i plug directly in the combo...help!



Re: pod hd500 vs m13 (true bypass)
by phil_m on 2012-06-06 06:18:45

Having it be exactly like what it is when you go directly into the combo may be a bit to ask of any effects unit. In any case, it shouldn't be vastly different. So are you just going into the front input of amp, or are you trying to use the 4CM? I'd say try getting it sounding good just going into the amp's input first. That shouldn't be too hard.

One thing you may want to try is setting up a simple patch using only one of the signal paths. Mute Path B in the mixer and move everything into Path A as shown below (except make sure you don't have an amp model selected in Path A). Then with everything bypassed, set the master volume knob so that the bypassed sound coming through the POD is about equal to the sound you get plugging directly into the amp. After that, you can start selecting effects in Path A. Once you have one preset that works, you can use it as a template for other effects only patches.

split tone 2.JPG



Re: pod hd500 vs m13 (true bypass)
by armoredcore80 on 2012-06-06 07:12:03

ok...i'll try this solution...

(however i tried the 4cm...)



Re: pod hd500 vs m13 (true bypass)
by rodney13 on 2012-06-06 13:41:39

You won't hear the true sound of your amp while using a HD event with the HD amp simulations turned off ,  but with the M13 you will



Re: pod hd500 vs m13 (true bypass)
by phil_m on 2012-06-06 13:46:35

I really don't think there's that's big of a difference. I mean, I love the M13 for what it is, and it's still the piece of Line 6 gear that I use most. But I like it more for ease of use than anything else. When I was using the HD500 with my amp for effects only, I did not hear much difference.  Perhaps I will try to do some more A/B comparisons between the two and post some recordings to research it a little further.

I will say this, though. Getting the 4CM to work with the HD takes a bit more work and is more tricky with the HD500 than it is with the M13. But in and of itself, the 4CM is kind of a finicky setup to use with a lot of pieces of gear.



Re: pod hd500 vs m13 (true bypass)
by armoredcore80 on 2012-06-06 14:59:25

mhmhmh...i really don't know what to do...the problem is that if i play on my own everything seems to me "almost fine"...the problem happens when i play with my band...however my volume is set: my sound is cheap, really cheap, the sound has no body, no dimension...and i think it's not a problem of setting or connection.

the problem is that many of you are saying to me that there is no difference between pod hd500 and m13 (apart from rodney13). i have to change something because i'm not so happy right now about it but if you say that the two pedals are the same i think that i have to look somewhere else....

however i have to try the method advised by phil_m yet...

ah....phil_m : i'm waiting for you about the a/b comparisons if you have time for it.

thank you



Re: pod hd500 vs m13 (true bypass)
by phil_m on 2012-06-06 16:26:34

my sound is cheap, really cheap, the sound has no body, no dimension...and i think it's not a problem of setting or connection.

Well, that's the thing that makes the HD500 a challenge sometimes. Specific settings and connections can have a huge impact on the tone.

Like I said, I do prefer the M13 for effects-only because it's so easy to use and set up. But it's not impossible to use the HD500 for effects only, and in your case, it should be useable live, too. I played with my HD500 and Fender amp live with a band for quite a long while, and it worked fine for me. So that's why I'm just saying it shouldn't be as bad as it's being described here.



Re: pod hd500 vs m13 (true bypass)
by armoredcore80 on 2012-06-06 16:57:01

maybe do I expect too much from it?



Re: pod hd500 vs m13 (true bypass)
by rodney13 on 2012-06-06 17:15:03

From what you are saying that your not happy with the the HD through your amp i suggest you try a M13

The effects on the HD and M13 are the same so yes things like distortions , chorus , delays and whatever else will sound identical

What i are trying to say is if you were to put the HD and the M13 side by side and plug them both into your amp and turned off all effects on the M13 so you only had a bypass signal then your natural amp sound would not change

but if you did the same with the HD and that includes turning off the amp simulation  then you would here what im talking about  your natural amp sound would be still coloured   well that's what i found with both units

As i said before i have had both units and the M13 was better for me in the end as i did not want to change my amp sound.



Re: pod hd500 vs m13 (true bypass)
by armoredcore80 on 2012-06-06 18:04:22

this kind of answer is what i'm looking for (not for the content but the mode)...is there someone else can write something about it?

thanks to all of you.



Re: pod hd500 vs m13 (true bypass)
by phil_m on 2012-06-06 19:48:29

Here a few samples I recorded this evening. I used a Fender American Standard Strat and a Blues Jr. NOS miced with a Sennheiser E609. I'm using one of the preamps from POD Farm and the UX2 to record, but there's no post processing really (other than a very small amount of compression on the mic to prevent clipping).

I won't say there aren't differences between the bypassed samples, but I don't think the differences are huge. Both the M13 and the HD500 introduce a very slight volume drop, but that can also be from the cables to a degree as well. I used the M13 in DSP bypass mode simple to compare apples to apples. There may be a slight change from switching to true bypass, but for me it's never been enough to warrant using true bypass mode. I also recorded one sample with effects as well - just the Tube Drive and Dynamic Delay. I tried getting the settings to match, but the M13 doesn't show exact values, so they aren't exactly the same.

One thing that did surprise me was that in order to get the HD500 to match the M13 signal, I have to pretty much dime the master volume. This actually makes it a bit easier.



Re: pod hd500 vs m13 (true bypass)
by litesnsirens on 2012-06-07 04:32:18

Thanks for posting that Phil. After listening to that, I would have to say that any differences would have to be measured on some kind of spectrum analyzer and viewed visually.  I think you have to factor in playing as well, when we are talking about the kind of miniscule differences that we are here, unless you could play with the exact same weight for every sample you recorded, it would be impossible to attribute any difference to the true bypass.  Certainly this lays to rest any claim that the HD is going to colour the true sound of your amp.  Maybe people can use this to stop drinking the "true bypass" cool-aid.

If you save the comparison until you are a little past the opening phrase and have settled into the groove you really hear no difference between HD500, M13 in true bypass and direct.



Re: pod hd500 vs m13 (true bypass)
by jimsreynolds on 2012-06-07 11:21:31

I use the HD in 4CM and the setup can be very transparent if you get it right.  There is the very slightest of colouration in the tone but it is barely discernable and certainly worth the trade off.  I am guessing you have probably already tried working through the 4CM guide here but if not, it may be worth a look ... http://line6.com/support/docs/DOC-2522

If">http://line6.com/support/docs/DOC-2522">http://line6.com/support/docs/DOC-2522

Ifyou are looking to use the HD in front of your amp then the things to watch out for are

-  Input gain too hot:   Use the pad switch if you need to and/or set your inputs to Input 1 = Guitar, Input 2 = Variax.

-  Master set to 100%

-  Output mode set to Studio direct

-  Mixer channel A panned centre and set at 0dB.  Mixer channel B set to mute.

-  1/4" Output switch set to 'amp'

-  Amp model off

My advice would be to create a totally empty patch and then compare the volume level both with and without the HD in place.  You are aiming to get the same level .... unity gain.  If you need to adjust levels, use the Mixer.   When you think you have things balanced off then play some guitar and satisfy yourself that things sound the same.  Then think about putting effects in.  Each time you add an effect into the chain, try and keep the overall volume level the same with the effect on and off.   This approach helps preserve your tone.



Re: pod hd500 vs m13 (true bypass)
by armoredcore80 on 2012-06-07 16:41:40

thank you so much!!!

this evening a friend of mine let me play (for 5-10 minutes...no more) with is m13...well...my ears heard a bit of differences but nothing important so that i have to sell my po hd500 to buy an m13...

but i have to say that it's crucial the volume of playing instrument...when i play softly it's hard to hear something wrong or different between the two pedalboards...when i play louder i think that the sound of my guitar thru the m13 is more (but a very little) preserved. i think that the final result is:

maybe i have to work more with the setting to make my pod hd500 sound a "little better" because in an m13 i will find nothing more than the pod hd500 (talking about sound...).

am i wrong? what do you think?

grazie!



Re: pod hd500 vs m13 (true bypass)
by armoredcore80 on 2012-06-07 16:42:19

i'll try your settings too!

tnx!



Re: pod hd500 vs m13 (true bypass)
by litesnsirens on 2012-06-08 09:05:52

I think you are making an informed assessment.  The HD500 is a detailed piece of gear, it's designed so that lots of different players can use it in lots of different scenarios.  Which is great, but that means they had to make a lot of different settings and this can make it difficult to find and cover all the bases you have to cover for your personal set up.  Personally I think I was considering returning my HD500 for the first two months I owned it but now that I have it dialed in I love it and won't part with it. 



Re: pod hd500 vs m13 (true bypass)
by armoredcore80 on 2012-06-08 15:56:34

well ... I knew that the pod HD500 wasn't a "plug'n'play" gear but, honestly, I don't think about not being able to find an acceptable sound after many years of playing with these things. BUT ... I'm humble and I will try to do everything you've written on this topic.

in the meantime you cross your fingers for my sound!!!

have a good night!



Re: pod hd500 vs m13 (true bypass)
by armoredcore80 on 2012-06-21 09:26:03

i tried this way and it seem to me that something changed better...thank you!!!

i have a question:

jimsreynolds wrote this:

-  Input gain too hot:   Use the pad switch if you need to and/or set your inputs to Input 1 = Guitar, Input 2 = Variax.

-  Master set to 100%

-  Output mode set to Studio direct

-  Mixer channel A panned centre and set at 0dB.  Mixer channel B set to mute.

-  1/4" Output switch set to 'amp'

-  Amp model off 

ok...i'd like to understand a little more about "-  Input gain too hot:   Use the pad switch if you need to and/or set your inputs to Input 1 = Guitar, Input 2 = Variax."  and about "Mixer channel A panned centre and set at 0dB.  Mixer channel B set to mute."

what do you think about it?

grazie!!




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