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HD300 - Combining basic effects?
by fender7802 on 2012-06-15 13:06:39

Hi Everyone. I got the HD300 a few months ago, and haven't had time to play with it until now. I trashed my old Line 6 GX because I got this brand new unit. In the FX banks, there are three options, but they all have unique effects. So what if I want to use two effects at once from FX1? I can't seem to use distortion and compressor at the same time. Or for example I can't use pitch glide with a fuzz pedal... or chorus + flange, etc. This can't be.. even the little GX (US $50) could do more than this thing. And now that I've had it for several months I can't take it back. Is there a solution to this problem? I noticed there is an update coming soon for the HD300 and the HD400. Does anyone know if they are going to fix this? I just don't see what the heck is going on here, didn't they realize this??

Thanks,

Chris



Re: HD300 - Combining basic effects?
by spaceatl on 2012-06-15 14:01:41

The HD300 is not much different than the POD XT in that regard...You get HD FX and amp models, but in something akin to the POD XT layout...Actually it's more like the SV MK2...Anyway, if you want configurable FX chains, you have to go with an HD Bean, 500 or Pro....

300 and 400 are "mostly" fixed chains like the older gear, but with the new models...The HD modeling use a lot more DSP than the old stuff did, the layout in the HD300/400 is such that you don't have to worry about running out of DSP...The cost is that there are some things it won't do...



Re: HD300 - Combining basic effects?
by Mr_Arkadin on 2012-06-15 14:05:28

The point of the 300 and 400 is that they are simpler than the 500 to use, so some flexibilty is lost. The HD500 is what you should have purchased by the sound of it. You could part exchange your 300 possibly. Any updates will not fundamentally change the fixed architecture of the 300/400 otherwise what would be the point of the different models?



Re: HD300 - Combining basic effects?
by fender7802 on 2012-06-15 14:34:43

Thanks for responding. I understand that since its a cheaper unit there are some limitations, such as limited DSP. However I'm still only asking to use three effects at one time. I should be able to swap out the FX3 bank for a duplication of FX1, or at least something like this. I don't see that as being a fundamental change of the architecture, just a software patch? I don't really know. I am just so confused... how does anyone even use this thing? I'm not an advanced player, but I figured dishing out $300 would at least get me some basic sounds. I'm so discouraged.



Re: HD300 - Combining basic effects?
by geppert on 2012-06-15 15:10:07

Fender7802,

The POD HD300 has some nice DSP in it however the "management" of that DSP has some limitations as you have obviously discovered.

I have a SV 212 MK2 which is a very fine amplifier but suffers from the same frustrations as you are experiencing with regards to DSP management. The truth of the matter is (as has already been pointed out) that the POD HD500 is the only solution to appropriate and flexible DSP management as far as current Line 6 options allow. To that end, (I mean what can you do), I have ordered a POD HD500 and a DT25 and most probably will sell off the SV. I've found with situations like this, you have to go where the solution is since it is highly unlikely that the solution will come to the gear you already have. There will be a cost differential for sure. Such is life. Both POD's 300/400 were a no go for me based on exactly this discussion. Not enough fexible DSP management. I want to use everything in whichever combination suits my requirements ..... hence the POD HD500. You get some other bonuses with the HD500 as well such as the Variax interface, larger display screen, Firmware 2.0, and etc. IF you feel that the PODHD gives you the "sound options" you like, then you'll need to upgrade to the 500 for the improved DSP management if that is what you really want. That being said however, there is always a possibility that a Firmware update "might" bring this DSP flexibility down to the 300/400's ..... but personally, I wouldn't hold my breath on it. .....Just my $02.

Hope this clears things up a bit?



Re: HD300 - Combining basic effects?
by fender7802 on 2012-06-15 15:27:45

Thank you geppert, this helps very much. I suppose it is highly unlikely that the update will fix it, but I figure I'll wait for it and see if there are any changes. If not, I'll have to get rid of the unit. It's just unusable. As I am very dissapointed with Line 6 for this I will probably abandon their products. Can anyone tell me if selling to guitar center is a huge rip off?



Re: HD300 - Combining basic effects?
by Mr_Arkadin on 2012-06-15 15:49:09

fender7802 wrote:

However I'm still only asking to use three effects at one time. I should be able to swap out the FX3 bank for a duplication of FX1, or at least something like this. I don't see that as being a fundamental change of the architecture, just a software patch?

Well some effects are more DSP intensive than others - so allowing a 'copy' of an effect would just make it exactly the same as a 500 and then DSP limits could be reached. The whole point is to keep the 300/400 simpler and cheaper. For more flexibility you pay more. I don't wish to appear harsh but maybe you should have tried the unit when you bought it - what if it had been faulty from day one for example?



Re: HD300 - Combining basic effects?
by fender7802 on 2012-06-15 16:06:36

Yeah, I get what you're saying Mr Arkadin. I'm just so bummed! I tested it out when I got it to make sure it turned on and worked and everything. No harshness taken. I'm not a software engineer or anything but how can a compressor be more DSP intensive than these crazy (useless IMO) effects such as opto and spin cycle etc. If it has the capacity for these crazy modulations it should be able to do the simple ones? I just hope Line 6 can make this update... or just confirm that it can't be done so I know for sure to get rid of it.



Re: HD300 - Combining basic effects?
by Mr_Arkadin on 2012-06-15 16:39:20

fender7802 wrote:

'm not a software engineer or anything but how can a compressor be more DSP intensive than these crazy (useless IMO) effects such as opto and spin cycle etc. If it has the capacity for these crazy modulations it should be able to do the simple ones? I just hope Line 6 can make this update... or just confirm that it can't be done so I know for sure to get rid of it.

Each model's DSP 'footprint' is really down to how accrately they want to model something. For example, the spring reverb is actually a complex sound to achieve and is consequently very DSP heavy (which is why on the 300 it is in FX Slot 1 and not the reverb slot - the reverb slot wasn't 'big enough', FX Slot 1 was).

I'm not Line 6, but I can say that in my opinion the architecture will not change - it would undermine the HD500 and also create new problems of DSP allocation. It would also require a complete rewrite of the software.



Re: HD300 - Combining basic effects?
by fender7802 on 2012-06-15 18:47:01

Well on that note I guess we'll wait and see what's more important to Line 6 - underming the HD500 or screwing over all its customers who expect some obvious features out of a unit that decievingly offers so much. Thanks gents.



Re: HD300 - Combining basic effects?
by Mr_Arkadin on 2012-06-16 05:31:43

Line 6 are not screwing or deceiving anyone. They are providing different models with different features at different price points. There is enough info on the website and on this forum, plus all the manuals and editing software, for anyone to research and make an informed decision as to which model suits them. One should never assume that a product should be anything other than what the manufacturer states.



Re: HD300 - Combining basic effects?
by TheRealZap on 2012-06-16 06:58:30

Im just going to chime in and state the obvious. You bought the wrong product for your needs... sorry but that wasn't something line6 made you do... I have the 300 as well and its great... maybe you should play it without the pre conceived notions of what your fx chain should be.... I think you'll find it sounds great.... use the drives on the amps different amps etc... if you can't get a good sound.... I would say you are doing something wrong... but as its subjective at that point you will have confirmed that you need a different product ... I am confident that the 300 wont change significantly...



Re: HD300 - Combining basic effects?
by Crusty_Old_Rocker on 2012-06-16 15:13:46

I can understand you're frustrated, but for me, the reason I started using Line 6 gear is that they make available all of the product manuals (http://line6.com/support/manuals/podhd300)">http://line6.com/support/manuals/podhd300">http://line6.com/support/manuals/podhd300)and super nifty comparison charts like this: http://line6.com/podhd/multi-effects/compare.html">http://line6.com/podhd/multi-effects/compare.html">http://line6.com/podhd/multi-effects/compare.htmlon the website.  This enabled me to check out all the features of the range of products before commiting any $$$ to a purchase.

Line 6 make products with varying degrees of complexity to meet the needs of different guitarists.  There are guitarists out there who want to be able to quickly dial in some basic effects without being bogged down by a multitude of options.  The POD HD300 and POD HD400 offer simpler operation with fewer options than the POD HD500 for those guitarists. 

Anyway, I would strongly recommend taking advantage of the information Line 6 makes freely available prior to spending your money.  That way you can be sure you're expectations of the gear will match what you're getting.

Cheers,

Crusty



Re: HD300 - Combining basic effects?
by MerlinFL on 2012-06-16 15:31:56

Too bad Line 6 doesn't think HD 300 or HD400 users will want to use the VDI connection forcing people who want the simple function like in all previous gear, but now have to get into the more complex HD500 or HD PRO to get the simple VDI guitar connection.

Those less complicated units seem an awful lot like a Spider amp in a pedalboard.  Those have no VDI connection either and if you look - the interface of the 300/400 looks much like the last Spider models produced over two years ago.

Has anyone noticed the Line 6 has stopped producing any new model of even their very successful Spider line of amps in lieu of the DT amps and POD HD units?

Sorry to all, I shouldn't have written anything, but this was too easy.



Re: HD300 - Combining basic effects?
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2012-06-16 16:49:18

That lasted long.



Re: HD300 - Combining basic effects?
by TheRealZap on 2012-06-16 17:44:54

i was the among the first to complain about the lack of VDI on the 3/400... i like my variax too much to use the 300 that much because of this...

that just means that the 500 was what i needed (challenge accepted.)



Re: HD300 - Combining basic effects?
by silverhead on 2012-06-16 18:11:27

Hey Neal. Good to see you back. Your technical knowledge is very valuable here. Nice to see none of the personal stuff in your post (unless there was something subliminal in your phrase "This was too easy"? I didn't get that reference.)

I guess Line 6, like every company, has to keep making decisions about legacy products vs.current/future products. You're right - they've certainly moved strongly in the direction of DT/HD products as well as their new Stage products, mixer and speakers. At least they've kept the simpler, more affordable HD300/400 versions for those who want to keep it simple. I guess they figured that a VDI connection either moves things into the realm of complexity that their target HD300/400 users don't want, or would push the price point too high for those users. Not everyone will agree with that, of course, but that was their decision.



Re: HD300 - Combining basic effects?
by fender7802 on 2012-06-16 18:17:38

Alright guys, fair enough. I didn't do enough research on the product. After using Line 6 for several years I wasn't expecting a unit like this to lack in this feature. At this point all I can ask is that Line 6 include in the update the ability for me to use a compressor on top of an overdrive pedal. This is all I need out of the product to be satisfied with it. For me, and I don't know what kind of tones others are using, I need to have this combination. That is all.



Re: HD300 - Combining basic effects?
by silverhead on 2012-06-16 18:22:52

... or you could sell your HD300 and get the product that does what you want - the HD Desktop. HD500, or HD Pro. The HD300/400 will almost certainly never do what you want. It is designed the way it is to, among other things, avoid overloading the available DSP, and that's not going to change.



Re: HD300 - Combining basic effects?
by Crusty_Old_Rocker on 2012-06-16 18:26:41

The units work well with other effects so you could always add any compressor to the front of the HD300.

Cheers,

Crusty



Re: HD300 - Combining basic effects?
by MerlinFL on 2012-06-16 21:17:59

Hi SIlverhead - I'm not back I just happened to have not found all of the email notifications i've signed up for over the years to have stopped them all.  Soi this post came through that I saw and HAD to reply to.

I appreciate the kind words about my product knowledge, but I'm simply getting out of the public forums since I confuse too many people or as one person put it - "I seem to be a lightning rod for controversay".  Rather poetic as I've never thought of myself as more than just someone with a brain I choose to use, but in doing so I rub many the wrong way.  Can't help uit, don't wish to try as I don't believe I'

m doong anything wrong, and most of all, I'm very tored of being bullied and gang-banged verbally because of the words I choose to use, or how I choose to use them.  I just want to help those who ask for and want it for the products I'm very well versed in.

In answer to your confusion about my last sentence...

Sorry to all, I shouldn't have written anything, but this was too easy.

Silverhead, that sentence means that I'm sorry for posting publicly as I am a man of my word and hardly ever break it, but this post was "too easy" not to ignore and post what I perceive as the Line 6 strategy in getting customers to buy the products that are not only what the customer may want or wish to take all the time needed to learn to work properly, yet just have the VDI interconnection.

But Line 6 is also a corporation that has spent tons of money in R&D for these new products starting probably around 2007.  Simple business says sell products created to as many whether they might not need nor want.  These items can be too complex for some (causing ill feelings and much frustration by those who have posted such things against Line 6 - there are quite a large quantity of those types of posts) by the simple fact Line 6 chose to save a few pennies NOT putting VDI connectors on all POD HD units.

Personally, I believe the company is proud of their JTV guitars (I am very pleased with mine) as they were very proud of their original Variax guitar models.   But this lack of VDI connection on all new POD HD models is confusing to me.   After the original installation of the VDI connectors to retrofit one the Vetta 1 and all POD pedalboards that came out at the same time the first Variax model guitar came out.  All products other than Spider amps and POD Beans which seemed to be geared more toward non-Line 6 players who wanted simple amps with several standard features, easy to use, and at a fair price.  This was a great strategy to get a new company out there and into the hands of many non-pro, and even some pro players who want them for practice, studio, or even live performances.  And it worked so well Line 6 became the largest producer of amps in the world.

It also might be part of the reason why pro musicians think Line 6 is nothing more than a joke, a gimmick, and other unkind and untrue, yet perceived reality by the majority as well as having near zero presence in the minds of not only the general guitar playing public worldwide, but not a thought in the minds of those who sell in retails stores "serious" Line 6 products that most don't even bother to stock. Do I think this is fair?  Not at all, but I can't change reality.

I am also truly sorry to contradict Karl with his remark "That lasted long".  And should I giggle, or think it was intended to be insulting?  I don't know as typed words have no expression as the human voice has.  However, I'm sorry bro...but I'm not back and this was just as I stated.  I hope you're presumption being incorrect is not going to cause a problem for you?  It happens to us all from time to time when you don't know someone like you might think you do.  I wouldn't lose any sleep over this.. It's nothing and I'm gone back into private conversations where I feel much more at ease.

Take care everyone,

Neal




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