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I think I'd pay for updates at this point. (HD500)
by wetredbox on 2012-06-20 13:38:47

yes, the v 2.0 did come out not too long ago.  and yeah it was good, the few things that it included.  And I realize that Line 6 is busy with many product rollouts, expanding the offerings, doing all kinds of stuff.  Thats cool.  But I bought this HD500 thing hoping it would evolve.  That It would include (hopefully) frequent updates, additions and tweaks.  Things that made it more fun during the course of ownership

I also realize that modeling new things to please everyone is an endless dead end.  But I'm just putting it out there.  If it takes paying for it, I would buy various packs that would suit my interests. 

I mean, since the HD team must be skeletal at this point, why not use it to produce revenue based updates that are cool as hell?, I'd spend some cash on some new stomp models, a new amp, etc....

thank you for your time.

anyone agree?



Re: I think I'd pay for updates at this point. (HD500)
by TheRealZap on 2012-06-20 14:15:03

i agree that updates are great....

but you made alot of assumptions in there that just aren't true. (i'm on the beta's for some of the HD products)

i also think you stuck yourself out there a little far in buying the thing with the expectation of many/frequent updates...

some of the updates aren't really new toys etc... they are just tweaks and fixes etc...

you'll notice historically that line6 rolls their technology into many future products as well... so the will never be skeletal in the development department... that's their money tree....

example... mobile in...  has pod 2.0 models in it... those models no doubt got worked a little bit to fit the ipad..



Re: I think I'd pay for updates at this point. (HD500)
by silverhead on 2012-06-20 14:58:26

wetredbox wrote:

...  But I bought this HD500 thing hoping it would evolve.  That It would include (hopefully) frequent updates, additions and tweaks.  ..

Sorry, wetredbox, but I think that's just a bad strategy when purchasing any product because it leads to disappointment and resentment based on unreasonable expectations. And my following comments are not aimed specifically at you because I know there are many customers who feel the same way, but I don't share that view.

To all who share the OP's view: Do you apply this same strategy to other consumer electronics, or only to Line 6 gear? If the latter - why is that? Perhaps becasue Line 6 is somewhat unique in their customer service, offering post-purchase free updates to many of their products? Maybe they should consider stopping this apparently annoying  practice?

For me, if I am not happy with what a product can do at the time I consider buying it - I don't buy it. And if I am happy enough with its current capabilities to buy it, then any future free upgrades and improvements are an unpromised and unexpected bonus.



Re: I think I'd pay for updates at this point. (HD500)
by wetredbox on 2012-06-20 15:17:52

In fact, I do apply this sort of thinking to every piece of high end, up-gradable hardware I buy.  It usually works out too.  Also, I don't mind putting myself out there or making the assumptions that i have about it.  This is after all a forum for discussion of all things Line 6 and I didn't express unhappiness for buying the HD500, just that I would happily pay for some cool additions to it's offerings.

I don't see anything wrong with the post and I don;t understand how you can misconstrue the post for resentment of any kind



Re: I think I'd pay for updates at this point. (HD500)
by TheRealZap on 2012-06-20 15:36:39

i was only conversing myself... wasn't taking it the wrong way .etc..

and for the record.... i love me some updates!



Re: I think I'd pay for updates at this point. (HD500)
by silverhead on 2012-06-20 15:37:43

Sorry, wetredbox. After re-reading my post I can see that I allowed some frustration to show, along with some sarcasm. It wasn't meant personally, but I shouldn't have hit the Submit button while frustrated. I have no problem with your post - I just have a diiferent view. I should have expressed it more appropriately.



Re: I think I'd pay for updates at this point. (HD500)
by Jeffsco on 2012-06-20 15:52:22

I have to agree...I am hoping for some more updates as well. Obviously...I'd like to see a few more amp models included. But there a few major issues that really detract from my enjoyment of the product. First....the Parametric / Studio EQ's. I get the whole" don't use your eyes use your ears thing". But as a Live Audio and studio engineer...It simply makes sense to cut something at 5k by 4.5 db. I can dial in my tone very fast that way. Forget the percentages. 2nd....get some of the digital distorion issues worked out. I'm tired of having to endlessly tweak the outputs of various effects combinations to eliminate the overloaded reverb unit. I never had to worry about that with my POD X3.

I understand the analogy about buying other consumer products and expecting them to "change". Good point. But the fact is..you can do precisley that with theese new HD POD's. So why not do it? I'd gladly pay for More / Different / Better amp sims.

I'd be a POD user for life if you could allow me to load my own Impulse Responses. 

Anyway....I do hope Line 6 will keep updating this thing for a while. As it is...they "seem" to have changed their focus to the Live Audio systems. So sad. At least tell us or give us a hint at what we can expect, if any, and when.



Re: I think I'd pay for updates at this point. (HD500)
by hollis1003 on 2012-06-20 16:41:20

I would just say that I love the POD HD.  It's a great product.  At this point I really don't see that I would "need" anything else.  I "want" more amps, effects and DSP power.

Now, if they come out with a new product at some point I do feel that I have learned my lesson and I would not expect updates.

It really seems that if you come out with a POD HD that only has 16 amps (not counting pre vs full) and the previous POD had over 40 amps and many bass amps that at some point they would bring up the amp count significantly.  Everyone has to admit they thought that would happen.

Now, at 2 years after the release there has been very little in the upgrades compared to upgrades for previous products.  It just doesn't seem that Line 6 are continuing to invest in this product.

If my POD HD dies in a couple years and I have a choice between a Line 6 product and another company I would very seriously consider all my options.  In the past, although I tried to be objective, being familiar with Line 6 products and how they sound drove me to favor Line 6.  I have to admit I have not tried Zoom, Digitech, or Fender products that do the same things.  I fear that even the style or perception of those products has made me somewhat predjudice.

Anyway, just my two cents.  I would also pay for more amps and effects if the price was appropriate.



Re: I think I'd pay for updates at this point. (HD500)
by holeshot1982 on 2012-06-21 03:47:09

I agree with a lot of things from both sides of the fence... I'm sure we would all want updates for amps and effects but most saying they would pay for it.....would be the same people complaining about the price of those updates...... For the price of the HD500 and the sounds you can get it's the a great value and although I would love to see new models the ones that are currently it now keep me busy enough! if I had 40+ amps, I'd NEVER sleep!! LOL



Re: I think I'd pay for updates at this point. (HD500)
by BigChas52 on 2012-06-21 05:34:39

Line 6 has a good history of keeping their focus products, like the HD series updated.  The word "frequent" is the sticking point here.  Line 6 has never done "frequent" updates.  If history is any indication, Line 6 will continue to add models and functionality to the HD line.  Just don't expect it too quickly.  If you have any specific feature requests, you can register them here http://line6.com/company/contact/productfeedback/ 



Re: I think I'd pay for updates at this point. (HD500)
by Crusty_Old_Rocker on 2012-06-21 05:49:47

I see your point, but with around 100 effects, that's more than any guitarist would carry in a pedal board, it's hard to think of anything that's missing as far as effects go.

Having all the extra amp models in the POD X3 and Vetta was really nice, but there was no deep editing of the amp or cab models in any of the other products.  When you consider the number of possible permutations when moving the bias, bias excursion and sag characteristics of the amp models and then add LPF, resonance, thump and decay characteristics of the speaker cabs, the number of possible amps (including ones that don't exist in the real world) would far exceed the 78 available in the other gear.  Don't forget other things like mid and presence controls on the modelled amps that don't exist on the amps that have been modelled, these extra controls turn those modelled amps into other amps.

Yeah, there are some old favourites that I'd like to see included in the modelling, but being able to do things like having a Fender Bassman running in class A (dime the bias setting) really opens up possibilities that didn't exist in the previous gear.

I actually build valve amps as a hobby and it might surprise you to know that there's not a whole lot of difference in most valve amps.  So, many of the amps that exist are basically copies of other amps with things like mid and presence control circuits added.  This basically means that there are many more amp models available within the gear right now than the 16 that appear on the screen.  Get in there and experiment, you'll be surprised with what you'll find.

Cheers,

Crusty



Re: I think I'd pay for updates at this point. (HD500)
by hollis1003 on 2012-06-21 07:34:51

As I said, I love my POD HD and don't need anything else.

The subject of this post was paying for updates.

The POD HD (except for 300 and 400) works almost flawlessly as is.  Line 6 has given us absolutely no reason to think that there will be any further updates.  Not even a hint.

Now that it's been over 3 months that the 300 and 400 owners have been waiting for their update there is nothing to make me believe the other HDs will get some kind of update.  At least not in the next 3 months.

If we want updates (just want them to satisfy our own interests) then maybe they will respond with something since we are willing to pay.



Re: I think I'd pay for updates at this point. (HD500)
by phil_m on 2012-06-21 07:45:18

I think the reports of the death of the updates for the HD line have been greatly exaggerated. The PODxt was first released in late 2002. The last update for that series was in late 2006. And actually, you could say that the X3 was a continuation of the XT tech, and that was last updated in 2010 (2011 for the X3 Pro). I imagine there's still some time for the HD series to develop. It hasn't been out for two years yet.



Re: I think I'd pay for updates at this point. (HD500)
by hollis1003 on 2012-06-21 07:49:09

I created a poll in the POD HD User's Group regarding paying for an upgrade.  Please go there to participate.

http://line6.com/support/groups/pod-hd



Re: I think I'd pay for updates at this point. (HD500)
by BigChas52 on 2012-06-21 08:06:49

hollis1003 wrote:

I created a poll in the POD HD User's Group regarding paying for an upgrade.  Please go there to participate.

http://line6.com/support/groups/pod-hd

I think that Line 6 would absolutely love to charge for HD model packs.  The HD modeling and programming process itself is a lot more intensive than the old non-HD Line 6 modeling.  My guess is that Line 6 doesn't have enough unreleased, and tested, models in the hopper yet to warrant paid model packs.

I would be willing to pay, but even if users are willing to pay, Line 6 would still need to make an up-front investment in more paid engineering and development resources in order to maked this happen.  What makes this more complicated is that they now have to develop for three different HD platforms HD300, HD400 and HD/HD500/HDPro.  It you throw the DT amp series in there as well, you've got quite a chore for each new amp model, effect, or feature.  DSP and memory limitations also need to be taken into account.  As you can well imagine, adding new models and features has now become a slow, complicated, and probably expensive process.



Re: I think I'd pay for updates at this point. (HD500)
by TheRealZap on 2012-06-21 09:04:53

funny thing is L6 would gladly take your money.... but it's still going to take as long as it takes...

its funny to hear all the arguments for free updates.... now now now...

and then we have the if i pay you... can you give it to me faster argument here



Re: I think I'd pay for updates at this point. (HD500)
by bclarke675 on 2012-06-21 09:54:46

Rather than pay more for updates, I'd upgrade from HD300 to HD500, if I wanted to spend more money.  I'm happy with the 300 as is, but appreciate any additional goodies Line 6 wants to offer free.



Re: I think I'd pay for updates at this point. (HD500)
by meambobbo on 2012-06-21 10:28:16

I would pay. I'd like to see a few more metal amps, load able IRS or better quality cab/mic models, global eq, more eq options, and maybe some cool effects



Re: I think I'd pay for updates at this point. (HD500)
by spaceatl on 2012-06-21 10:59:54

what? The HD500 doesn't have any "cool" FX?



Re: I think I'd pay for updates at this point. (HD500)
by Crusty_Old_Rocker on 2012-06-21 16:50:24

I just went and counted 7 firmware updates since the release of the HD500.

Here's a thought, let's roll back to the original firmware and compare.    I personally believe that the updates have given us a substantial increase in the tonal possibilities with the amp modelling as well as a whole bunch of other enhancements. 

I suspect those who don't use the deep editing, L6 LINK (DT amps), MIDI and Variax features don't get as much out of the HD500 as those of us who do.

Cheers,

Crusty



Re: I think I'd pay for updates at this point. (HD500)
by guitarplayer0376 on 2012-06-21 19:42:21

I have no sympathy for you, I should have go the HD500 instead of the 300, at least you got 2.0.



Re: I think I'd pay for updates at this point. (HD500)
by Duker63 on 2012-06-26 18:48:29

Hey you should be happy you never bought the Peavey Vyper

At least the HD500 actually works



Re: I think I'd pay for updates at this point. (HD500)
by PaulBateman on 2012-06-27 07:39:19

BigChas52 wrote:

hollis1003 wrote:

I created a poll in the POD HD User's Group regarding paying for an upgrade.  Please go there to participate.

http://line6.com/support/groups/pod-hd

I think that Line 6 would absolutely love to charge for HD model packs.  The HD modeling and programming process itself is a lot more intensive than the old non-HD Line 6 modeling.  My guess is that Line 6 doesn't have enough unreleased, and tested, models in the hopper yet to warrant paid model packs.

I would be willing to pay, but even if users are willing to pay, Line 6 would still need to make an up-front investment in more paid engineering and development resources in order to maked this happen.  What makes this more complicated is that they now have to develop for three different HD platforms HD300, HD400 and HD/HD500/HDPro.  It you throw the DT amp series in there as well, you've got quite a chore for each new amp model, effect, or feature.  DSP and memory limitations also need to be taken into account.  As you can well imagine, adding new models and features has now become a slow, complicated, and probably expensive process.

as someone that already owns 3 L6 model packs i dont/cant use anymore.. i would pay for it as well..i guess..

but imo... how difficult they have made it for themselves trying to sell more hardware is not my concern... just being straight up...



Re: I think I'd pay for updates at this point. (HD500)
by chimp_spanner on 2012-06-30 03:44:15

To be totally honest, new model packs are extremely low down on the wishlist for me. I mean don't get me wrong, it'd be nice to have some of the old favs back from the X3. I'm not even gonna say what they are because we all seem to ask for the same ones so there's no point haha. But I can't say that the current heavy amps just aren't doing it for me. Treadplate and Fireball are extremely versatile models.

But what frustrates me is how all of the small features/improvements we would like to see appear to be spread across various Line 6 products, but never in one complete product! It's like they disregard all previous experience every time they make a new version. Examples:

• Vetta II had a detailed 4 band parametric EQ section with Q/width controls for two of the bands and operated in hz. X3 had a 4 band parametric WITHOUT Q controls but also operated in hz. HD Pro has a single band with Q and two shelving...and operates in %.

• Vetta II had a fully featured compressor with attack/release/threshold. X3 and HD have threshold and level...??

• POD Farm 2.5 has an A+B+Y splitter. HD does not.

• X3 Pro allows for different output modes to be sent to the 1/4" and XLR outputs (and in fact I believe the XT Pro could do this also). HD Pro cannot (not without using an FX loop workaround which also deprives you of the FX loop itself).

• X3 Pro allows for the pre-amp to be turned off, but cabinet emulation to remain on. HD Pro does not.

These are things Line 6 already know how to do. Then there are the things they ought to know we'd like to have by now:

• Delay times shorter than 20ms for dual tone
• Split amp/cab section to facilitate dual cab/mic setups with a single amp

• Global EQ in direct mode (not just power amp/stack front mode)

• Tone copy/swap

• Clip indicators

They're small things, yes. But combined, they add up. It's enough to give Axe FX users that little bit of extra ammo to claim that the HD Pro is anything but, when we all know what needs to be done to give it that status if only Line 6 would listen to us or at least acknowledge that someone has read our countless feature suggestions. If the next update doesn't include these things but gives me yet MORE fuzzy mid gain classic rock amps I'll be convinced they're sabotaging their own product

If they can implement these very simple features, most of which have appeared in their other/older products, THEN we can start dreaming about things like more amps, custom IR loading, etc. But yeah, I do not want them devoting resources to features like that when there is still work to be done on the basics that would make the HD Pro a fully comprehensive amp and cab modeling solution.

For the record, I absolutely LOVE the HD, even in the state it's in. And also I should say that yes, version 2.0 is light years beyond version 1.0 (which was so underwhelming I gave my HD 500 to my dad!). So I appreciate how far we've come. Line 6 gear has been at the heart of everything I've been doing personally and professionally for years now. But as a fan and a long time supporter, I think it's my job to be critical!

Anyway to finish up, SOME kind of communication with (or announcement from) the dev team to let us know they're still alive would go a long way to keeping people happy. If there are no plans to develop the HD further or we have to wait for the HD Ultra, then just tell us. We won't be mad. We'll just have something else to salivate over But if that's the case, for the love of God try and take on board the wealth of fantastic feature suggestions by your loyal army of users/fans!

/End of line



Re: I think I'd pay for updates at this point. (HD500)
by Akeron on 2012-06-30 04:31:45

And missing documentation of features that were documented in the manuals of older units, like the neutral settings of the effects...




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