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POD HD500 + Laney TT50 - 4CM - Need Help With Levels
by fechart on 2012-07-09 09:37:12

Hello there,

I was buying a Marshall JVM 410C untill yesterday, but in the store they told me I would have to wait 6 months instead of 3... So I found a great deal with a Laney TT50, I bought it second handed for just USD 1.250 (here in my country the price of this amp, new, is USD 2290).

This amp has send/return connectivity, plus a MIDI function, as the JVM has.

I can´t explain how happy I was when I plugged my POD HD 500 straight to the Effects Return of the amp!!! It sounds really good!!! I was just tired of messing around with my Fender Blues Junior III and not getting good results, but I suddenly breathed!!!

I plan to connect the TT50 to the POD HD500 by the 4CM+Midi, so i´ts veeeeery probable that I´ll be bothering with some questions about that in the forum

Cheers!

PS: anybody having the TT50 out there?



Re: POD HD500 + Laney TT50
by TheRealZap on 2012-07-09 09:59:17

great, always nice to hear when someone's tone takes a turn in the right direction.



Re: POD HD500 + Laney TT50
by fechart on 2012-07-09 17:47:40

Thank you Zap!

By the way, today I connected the POD HD 500 to the TT50 with the 4CM + Midi cable, it all works fine, but I have one question...

I have patches that use the TT50 preamp, inserting the FX Loop in the chain, and others that do not, then I can use the POD´s amp modelling.

The amp volume is MUCH higher than the amps in the POD. In the amp the Master volume is set after the FX Loop, so it controls the overall volume, but to level the volume of the channels of the amp with the amp models of the POD, I can raise each channel´s volume only up to 2 (in a scale of 1 to 10, of course).

Is this normal or am Ii doing something wrong?

Cheers!



Re: POD HD500 + Laney TT50
by jimsreynolds on 2012-07-10 04:25:41

I had that problem with my JVM - the 'real' preamps were much louder than the modelled one.

The answer was to

1)  Set the amp FX Loop Level to the lower one (-10dB)

2)  Turn the Pod 1/4" Output to 'Line'

3)  Turn all my patches way down, using the Mixer,  and then back up to match the 'right level'

This effectively gives the Pod more gain at the output and therefore the ability to drive the Power amp properly using the Modelled amps.  The level mismatch between Pod output and FX Return is not an issue provided you turn your patch levels down so they are are at the level that you would hear if you were running the amp on its own. 

If you haven't already seen it, checkout my 4CM guide here --> http://line6.com/support/docs/DOC-2522.">http://line6.com/support/docs/DOC-2522">http://line6.com/support/docs/DOC-2522. I cover this.  Go with the 'Second' method, highlighted in blue.  Run through the whole thing, including patch construction, and let me know how it works out.


Cheers

JIM



Re: POD HD500 + Laney TT50
by fechart on 2012-07-10 11:40:44

Hi Jim,

Thanks for your answer.

I´m trying what you´re saying right now, but I´m having troubles anyway...

1) My amp has only a knob to control the FX Mix, and when I turn it down the amps modelled by the POD also turn their volume down, so it´s the same

2) The increase of volume turning the POD 1/4" Output to LINE works both for the real amp and the amps modelled by the POD, so it´s the same again

3) Controlling the mixer is my only chance in this situation, but it results in a loss of tone, I don´t know why, for example, the crispy cleans I obtain with the amp´s clean channel volume at 2, turn dark when I raise the volume and decrease the level on the mixer...

Also I compared the volumes of the guitar straight to the amp and the volume with the 4CM setup, and they are just fine using the POD 1/4" Output to AMP.

Perhaps my setup is just right and I don´t have to change anything, just have to use low channel volumes on the amp, but I read out there that this is not convenient because I won´t be running the right input into the Power Amp or something like that...

Help me again Jim!!!!!

Many thanks!



Re: POD HD500 + Laney TT50
by fechart on 2012-07-10 12:30:16

OOOOOOPPPPSS!!! I just realized that there´s no "loss of tone" when turnin the mixer's level down! This happens when I plug the guitar straight to the amp also! Less volume in the channel and more on the master results in crispier cleans than turning up the volume of the clean channel and turning down the master! Sorry for that, I never had such a "complex" amp before haha.

Other possibility I saw is that you can turn down the SEND level on the FX Loop block on the POD, is this convenient or not??

Thanks again!



Re: POD HD500 + Laney TT50
by jimsreynolds on 2012-07-10 13:56:20

Turning down the FX Send level is actually a bad way to go.  It seems that the POD may drop a few dB of gain between it's input and the FX Send.  In fact:  I boost the signal using a studio EQ before the FX Loop, as per my guide.

Remember:  the name of the game with 4CM is to get the levels identical (or close to) the levels that you would hear if you use the amp on it's own.   If you end up overly boosting or cutting the signal then you will either clip or end up with tone suck.  The method and effects order that I describe nails these levels on my HD/amp setup and should work well for most setups.

Make sure the mix control on your Laney is 100% up or the tone may sound weak and phasey.  

The Mixer should not suck tone if set right.  try setting up the 'real' patches as per my guide and then turning down the modelled patches using the mixer and volume knob to match the real pre-amps.



Re: POD HD500 + Laney TT50
by fechart on 2012-07-10 20:08:07

Thanks for all your advice Jim! Now it´s working fine!

Cheers!



Re: POD HD500 + Laney TT50
by fechart on 2012-07-11 19:20:07

The only thing that bothers me is that the amp´s channel volume isn´t "remembered" by the POD, neither the EQ settings or the gain...

But I suppose that´s a problem of the TT50.

How this works on the JVM?

Cheers!



Re: POD HD500 + Laney TT50
by jimsreynolds on 2012-07-12 03:03:39

On the JVM: I can control the Channel, FX Loop, Midi and Master Volume using the Pod and MIDI.  The Master volume has two selectable levels and you can choose between the two. 


The rest of the controls are not programmable so gain, tone stack and channel volume are all analog and you need to dial them in.  Just the nature of the beast.

I think you would need a full Midi-programmable pre-amp to get the fine level of control over the amp controls that I think you are looking for.  My way?   Set the levels how you like them and memorise them.  Initially with the JVM I created a Laminate (too many darn knobs to memorise) but now I am happy to set general levels on the JVM and tweak them for the scenario/room.  In some ways this is better and easier to work with .... you don't want to be reprogramming your levels just before you start playing !!!




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