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PD HD used with AMP vs PA? What to do?
by S_i_O on 2012-07-18 16:49:15

Hi all.

I've been playing for years with stomp box's like the Metal Zone and others like that.

I just made the jump to the HD300, and I love the possibilities and quality of this product.

But I'm still having trouble getting the full potential out of the HD300, and here's why:

My HD300 is currently plugged in a MARSHALL JMP 100W. This AMP has a "personnality" of it's own. It has it's own unique sound signature.

So if I use a preset on the HD300 simulating a FENDER amp, I will never get a nice FENDER amp feel cause it's passing trough a MARSHALL, witch add it's own layer of sound on top.

I tried many AMP settings (mids, hi, low, gain etc..) set to different values, but still, my Marshall will always add it's signature. 

The only way I have to get the genuine HD300 sound (for now) is trough headphones.

BUT

I've read on different forums, that there are many guitarist that have quit using AMP's all together. No more amps. Instead, they simply use amplified speakers with there POD, or plug in to the PA of wherever they play.

That way, they get the genuine POD HD sound (and emulate whatever AMP they like) and there is no additionnal "sound layer" added by any amps. Your following me?

So, it all comes to the reason why i'm posting today:

What are you guys using with your POD?

If you use an AMP, what are your settings?

If your using amplified speakers or PA, how good is it?

Thx alot for any comments, suggestions and personnal experiences!!

NOTE 1: I do not have an effect loop on my AMP... old amp.



Re: PD HD used with AMP vs PA? What to do?
by Crusty_Old_Rocker on 2012-07-19 03:26:54

Okay, I have use the DT amps which are made for the POD HD series.  Those amps are specifically designed to apply the correct power amp topology to the modelled preamps in the POD HDs.  Any other guitar amp is going to mismatch the power amp settings to the modelled preamps.  For example, if your amp has a class A/B power amp, then a Vox AC 30 model isn't going to sound right and if you've got a class A power amp, then most of the other amp models won't sound right.  The negative feedback loop in the power amp also needs to be matched to get things sounding right too.

So, I'd steer clear of using a guitar amp other than the DT amps if I want the modelled amps to sound right.

I also have a pair of powered PA speakers and get great results using the full amp models on the POD HD to go into them.  The full amp models sound so close to the originals when using decent powered PA speakers that you'll think your playing the real thing.

So, if I were in your position, I'd consider the DT amp option, but you have a nice Marshall amp and if you dig your Marshall, then you could use the POD HD500 just for effects using the 4 cable method.  Then if you want to access more accurate modelled amps, use powered PA speaker(s).  The PA speakers are relatively inexpensive, you can do stereo and vocals too.  So, they're a handy piece of kit.

There's no single option that will cover all possibilities when it comes to the music gear.  For example, the DT amps aren't as good as the PA speakers when using the acoustic guitar options in the Variax.  It's a case of matching the gear to your individual needs.

Cheers,


Crusty



Re: PD HD used with AMP vs PA? What to do?
by Crusty_Old_Rocker on 2012-07-19 03:28:01

Woops, forget the 4 cable method suggestion in my post, you need a loop on your amp for that.

Cheers,


Crusty



Re: PD HD used with AMP vs PA? What to do?
by BigChas52 on 2012-07-19 04:23:24

I over time, I have used my progression of PODs (XTL, X3L, now HD500), direct into the PA, with powered speakers for monitoring.  It has always sounded great, and got better with each POD model upgrade.  That said, I have recently started using a DT25 with my HD500, and all I can say is "amazing"  As Crusty mentions though, the downside is that it isn't particularly good for acoustic (I'm also using a Variax).



Re: PD HD used with AMP vs PA? What to do?
by guitarzan8 on 2012-07-19 08:36:40

Fender powered wedge 1270p. 

http://support.fender.com/manuals/pro_audio/1270P_PoweredMonitor_manual.pdf

I have been using POD's in studio and on stage since XTL.  I'm currently in transition from X3L to HD500, and I gotta admit it's tough to beat the X3L.  They got it right in the HD500 with the ability to program any effect to any or the 8 FS switches though.  In all 3 generations of my POD setups, on stage I've used 2 Fender powered wedges in stereo, model 1270p. 

My challenge has been a "buzzy" sound on stage, but the various soundmen in every club would say it sounds fantastic out the front.  I've found the Drive control on each patch would add buzzyness as I'd turn it up.  I found that by turning that down for the initial patch and adding a screamer or overdrive as an optional effect (initial setting = off), I could get a nice warm crunch with the ability to distort the sound if I felt like it.  Some things I've tried are unplugging the tweeters out of the 1270's, reducing the drive on each patch, tweaking the output treble pad (can't find this on the HD500 <sigh>).  I play in a dance rock act with another guitar player who has about 1/2 the experience but uses a top end tube amp with a HUGE pedal board with a wide asst of pedals, and he is good at getting a good tone.  I'm determined to get as good of tones but have not had much success. 

I checked out Lincoln Brewster's web site lincolnbrewster.com.  He lists his stage setup as using his POD X3L for the amp modeling and various pedals for the effects.  I couldn't clearly see which physical amp/cab he uses.

Let us know if you change your rig and the results of that.



Re: PD HD used with AMP vs PA? What to do?
by Crusty_Old_Rocker on 2012-07-19 10:30:05

I should probably mention that I too used powered PA speakers over the years going from PODxt Live, to POD X3 Live and now POD HD500.  I have never plugged a POD into a guitar amp before the POD HD.  That's because you couldn't get a guitar amp that wouldn't mess with the tone.  Even when using the full amp models in the POD HD, I prefer to go into my powered PA speakers than the DT amps.  That's because the whole idea of the DT amps is to provide an analogue valve power amp for the modelled pre amps.

Cheers,

Crusty



Re: PD HD used with AMP vs PA? What to do?
by S_i_O on 2012-07-19 13:37:14

Thx to all for your quick reply's!

It seems to me from the recent lectures I had that "Dedicated Guitar Amps" are on a downfall...  Loosing popularity at least.

Has technology progresses (with POD's for example) the need for big amps to get a peticular sound is almost gone...

If I, a self proclaimed "old school" guitarist is "thinking" of letting go of my amps, my guess is that the younger generation might never even own an amp!

Kinda sad in a way, but it's evolution I guess.

The DT amps are quite interesting for sure. ill go and have a try.

Keep your suggestions and comments comming, cause my mind ain't set on a peticular setup yet 

Thx again for you inputs!



Re: PD HD used with AMP vs PA? What to do?
by Colin2113 on 2012-08-17 12:56:41

I use the HD PRO straight into a pair of some nice KRK studio monitors. I still get all the hum and feedback I love it. The only setup that I feel is better is using the L6 link to my DT25. Oh and it doesn't hurt to have the JTV-59 and a Relay G90



Re: PD HD used with AMP vs PA? What to do?
by glassjaw07 on 2012-10-31 11:30:46

I've been gigging with my HD500 into the fx return of a Carvin MTS head into a Carvin 412 with Eminence made neutral sounding speakers.  The results are amazing and the character of each amp model/effect really shines through.  The only problem I have is that my tone sometimes doesn't cut quite as much as I'd like because our other guitarist has a very razory (and bad) tone.  I've tried telling him, and other people have too but he's stuck on "his tone".  

For awhile, I was going straight to the board with decent results but I feel that the tube power section really makes the HD sound like the real deal.  I use a 57 on one speaker (edge of dust cap/cone) for dry cut and Shure KSM 32 on another speaker for a rich, warm sound.  The blend of both is huge!  Can't wait to try the SLO crunch and Lead tones at our next show!



Re: PD HD used with AMP vs PA? What to do?
by JTSC777 on 2012-11-04 14:52:59

HD300 into effect loop of original Line 6 Flextone with a 400 watt Delta 12A speaker in  it. Very good! HD300 into effect return of Egnater Tweaker head and various 1x12 cabs.Excellent!. HD300 and Roland GR55 into Roland KC300 keyboard amp with Delta 12A speaker and upgraded tweeter. Sounds good but has a bit of "buzziness" on the HD sounds.The front of house sounds great though with this set-up. I prefer the Egnater rig with HD300 because I like the on stage reactance of the tubes.I have recently upgraded to the current firmware and can now turn off the cabinet models and I have to say  the HD300 sounds and feels pretty good into the front of my non effect loop tube amps too! During a typical set I will play a Dwight Yoakum tune-a George Benson tune and an Alice In Chains Tune along with "ladies Nite" by Kool and The Gang. The HD300s' has the power and versatility to do all these things very well!



Re: PD HD used with AMP vs PA? What to do?
by spudlike on 2012-11-06 13:24:05

I suggest you check out the Tech 21 Power Engine http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/powerengine/powerengine60.html and see what you think.  Its a 60W solidly built solid state amp that amplifies but add minimal colourations.  It has advantage of looking like a conventional guitar amp so won't look out of place standing behind you on stage .  It's an interesting talking point too!



Re: PD HD used with AMP vs PA? What to do?
by S_i_O on 2012-11-11 09:45:07

Thx alot to all of you for your replys.

Since my first post, I rented some amplified speakers, and finally came to the conclusion that it did not provide the sound I was looking for...

So I decieded to keep my Marshall JMP and my Fender Twin Chorus.

Of course, I gotta jump from one to the other with my ABbox when I wanna play clean (fender) versus distorted (marshall) but it's the only way I found to get the best of both worlds.

Might take a look at those powerengine or the line6 amp serie tought...

Thx alot!




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