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Problem with pod HD 500 into PA
by alessiorossetti on 2012-09-17 00:12:43

first of all sorry my english!!

i have a problem with my pod HD 500 connected into a mixer with XLR cables: my "rock" presets (distorted presets) sound extremely acid, thin as if they were ruined or something like that...so i can't play my pod hd into PA...

I read several forum posts regard similar issue but i still haven't found  the solution!!

NOW:

i update driver and firmware 2.0, i create my presets clean and distorted (all with cabs!) at home with studio monitor (KRK RP6-G2) and sounds VERY WELL, i set studio/direct mode and connect with XLR cables into the mixer of  PA system (with my band in "garage", not live) but there is a problem: the clean are not so bad, but i can't play the distortion presets because are extremely thin and acid and i'm sure that's not a EQ problem, because sounds like, how can i explain, "ruined" or "damaged" i think...

So i re/flesh, reinstall last firmware and i click NO to the question "keep existing patches?" So i re-create my presets but nothing to do...i still have this problem.

Why??

At home sounds very very well! 

I create presets with iMac osx 10.6.8, m-audio firewire 410, krk rp6 g2 monitors, ibanez jpm 100, professional jack (tabacco - italian cables), and POD HD (connected USB) into computer

N.B.

There is a curious thing: when i play live with big PA systems i connect the pod HD into a tipical stage box with XLR and sounds great! sounds very very well!

thank you

Alessio



Re: Problem with pod HD 500 into PA
by HDProJohn on 2012-09-17 16:49:36

My thought is that your patches made on a pair of 6" reference monitors cannot correlate to a PA system. I generate patches at home with a pair of Yamaha HS50Ms and can never go to practice and plug directly into the PA and have a good sound. These patches don't sound good out of my 4x12 cabinet either; they always tend to be very thin, have too much presence and are too concentrated in the high end. Curious to hear others' working methods to overcome this issue. For now I generate a "studio" and a "live" patch for each instance. Will create the patch with all of the effects and whatnot, go to the practice space and readjust all EQ and settings on my personal rig, and then try it on the PA. Level matching the output volume is a bit of a pain as well but just use the mixer within the Pod and keep the master volume knob at 100% (this maintains consistency). If you really want to get fancy, solo your channel on the PA mixer and make sure each patch is peaking at the same level using the LEDs.



Re: Problem with pod HD 500 into PA
by alessiorossetti on 2012-09-18 07:19:54

So, HDProJohn,

to play big concerts i have to create my presets with a PA, and not with studio monitor?!

I have to buy a PA system only for create "live" presets, or go to a practice space and create there??

sorry man, but i think what you're saying is not correct.

I've played several times live with my presets, with big PA, and very good monitors, and the sounds was very very good....

But now i have a doubt:

is it possible that my problem had something to do with the mixer of the pod?? because all my presets are panned to the centre....

or with the "GUITAR-IN-Z"??

Now i've panned all presets to left and right, and set guitar-in-Z to "auto"..

tomorrow i'll try with PA!

Thank you



Re: Problem with pod HD 500 into PA
by HDProJohn on 2012-09-18 08:47:23

Give it a shot. My ears aren't as good as others' yet to hear a major difference when changing input impedences, especially for distorted patches.

What I was getting at is the fact that little speakers don't translate to a PA configuration well. The bass response on a 6" flat speaker is nothing in comparison to bass bins and full range (most likely colored in some fashion) speakers all controlled by cross-overs, etc. My experience is that if I can get the patch to sound good on a 4x12 cabinet, then it will sound good on the PA. Guitar cabinets have a much limited top end (please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they begin topping off around 6k - rule of thumb and I'm sure speaker cab design all plays a big role into this, just generalizing) and have a much easier time producing the lows. For this reason, I believe that using a guitar cab for generating/adjusting live patches is better than using studio reference monitors. Of course, disregard that statement if your reference monitors at home are something like 8" speakers or you had an external subwoofer.



Re: Problem with pod HD 500 into PA
by MerlinFL on 2012-09-18 09:24:37

alessiorossetti wrote:

So, HDProJohn,

to play big concerts i have to create my presets with a PA, and not with studio monitor?!

I have to buy a PA system only for create "live" presets, or go to a practice space and create there??

sorry man, but i think what you're saying is not correct.

I've played several times live with my presets, with big PA, and very good monitors, and the sounds was very very good....

But now i have a doubt:

is it possible that my problem had something to do with the mixer of the pod?? because all my presets are panned to the centre....

or with the "GUITAR-IN-Z"??

Now i've panned all presets to left and right, and set guitar-in-Z to "auto"..

tomorrow i'll try with PA!

Thank you

I think you might wish to invest in a pair of very good headphones for the basic patch setup, then plug into whatever amp you are using and make adjustments at your performance volume on stage.  If you use the OUTPUT MODE Studio/Firect for your patches even if using a DT amp, you'll find your sound is more consistent in every situation you come up with. 

Also in the Guide I've gotten Web published on Harmony Central, I make mention of doing this to start then using Pre models, with the output I've already mentioned.  You still get to choose the cabs and mics even though you are not using "Full" models.  It works perfectly with a L6 Link or direct to PA in my 2 years of using the HD500 and HD PRO units. 

Much of your sound will come not only from the amp and FX, but from the cab settings and the Mic is very important as each does have it's own unique Q response that will help or hurt your overall sound.  Example,. the 409 has a presence peak which makes bright sounds brighter, as does the 421 but in a slightly higher peak Q range.  The 4038 is fairly flat, buy is sometimes is a bit too "dead" sounding for certain patches, and so on.  Many powerful tools just between the cab settings and the mic choice and distance. On top of all the tools of amp settings, and FX in the signal path.

I hope this helps and the Guide might help more as it is more elaborate and detailed.



Re: Problem with pod HD 500 into PA
by alessiorossetti on 2012-09-18 23:50:57

Thank you guys for your replies,

first of all i think that krk rp6 are good monitors, for create some presets! Are not very different from the most fmaous HS 80! (that i listen several times in recording studios)

Merlin, i often use AKG-K271 MKII  headphones, and are good enough, i think, but i prefer to hear from monitors..

I often connect POD into return of any ampli that i find in practice spaces, and that i find in various concerts, and sometimes sounds very good, but other times sounds not so good...Do you think that it depends of power amps?

So, your advice is set studio/direct in any case, (to PA or to amp) and use only PRE amp models with cab sim?

i can try!

Where i can get this Guide in Harmony Central?

Can you link me the site?

best regards, Alessio



Re: Problem with pod HD 500 into PA
by Leftzilla on 2012-09-19 08:09:03

I run direct into a PA (Mackie 1604 board flattened EQ) for all of my live work with either the 1/4 inch outputs or the xlr's.  I also use a 45 watt Full Range kybd amp as an onstage monitor.  The same sound I get through my headphones and onstage monitor are the same as what gets into the PA direct through the mixer.  If you can try and run the headphone outputs direct to the mixer to see if this helps.  That would at least tell you whether the problem is related to the XLR outputs (which I doubt). 

If you have a headphone output on the mixer run your hd500 into the mixer and use your headphones to check the sound going through the mixer to make sure they match.  There should be no reason that you are getting such a diiferent sound between your monitors/headphones and the PA unless something on the mixer is affecting the sound.  Also make sure if you are running a mixer with onboard effects that the HD500 signal is not being sent to the effects which may color the sound further.




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