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Grimlins !!!!
by spikey on 2012-10-05 08:03:13

We have grimlins... HERE!

Yes I know it hard to believe...

They are removing posts made from our valuable user database.

I will stand the 1st watch...

carry on....



Re: Grimlins !!!!
by meambobbo on 2012-10-05 08:07:55

i think the OP has the option of deleting his thread, but if L6 is doing it, then we gotta throw up the WTF flag



Re: Grimlins !!!!
by silverhead on 2012-10-05 09:33:09

I suspect this is a result of the user-moderation features of the website. In addition to Line 6 moderators (who are very passive and rarely intervene) users themselves can moderate the forum in 2 ways:

1) Any user can delete their own post in any thread - not only threads they initiated. When doing this there is an option to also delete all 'children' of their post. So one user can delete many posts. I've used this myself in cases where, on sober 2nd thought, I decide to remove an entire sub-thread that I felt had gotten nasty and abusive partly because of my own comment that contributed to it. So I deleted my comment and the associated sub-thread. Note that this is no special privilege - all users can do this. It is part of the forum feature set.

2) Any user can report any other user's post as abusive - to anyone, not only to themselves. There is a Report Abuse button just like there is a Reply button on every post. If a single post receives a sufficient number of abuse reports it is automatically deleted, again as part of the forum website feature set. No active moderation is required by Line 6 on an individual post basis. The users can decide what they feel is abusive or tolerable and remove posts that a sufficient number find abusive. Line 6 sets the threshold number for post deletion on abuse reports. I'm not exactly sure what it is, but I know it's a relatively low number - something like a handful.

These two features combined effectively permit the user community to self-moderate the forum to at least some degree. Together, as a community, we have some power and influence over the type of forum we want. We will have the type of forum we, collectively, deserve. Together we can determine the level of discourse that we feel is acceptable.

And... none of this is new, nor simply my opinion. It is fact, and has been present all along.



Re: Grimlins !!!!
by michaedr on 2012-10-05 10:33:03

I know what you're talking about and as the OP I can tell you I didn't delete it, but I could see how some people might have hit the report button.  Some of you guys need some counseling...seriously

On a side note:  The posting is gone from the board but it is still listed on the popular discussions on the right for now.  Glitch in the system I guess.   



Re: Grimlins !!!!
by Akeron on 2012-10-05 10:38:37

It's not gone. You can't see it because now is on page 3, with a a lot less posts...



Re: Grimlins !!!!
by spikey on 2012-10-05 11:51:47

Thank you Silver for that set of rules and regs. Now then...  Im sure I could use some counseling pro bono of course. And so could alot of you. But lets just focus like a laser beam on ME for a second and ask just why I might need it here. Only two people here have come clean with regards to their issues with any Line 6 product, that wear the tag. And even then that thread only lasted about 10 minutes. Others have suggested that they too have issues, but wont ever say what they were. And then there are those that are screaming, why ask why?.... I'll tell you why.... You see, to be completely honest with Line 6 and their gear we have to be frank and honest with ourselfs. I want a better product and less failure rates. I want QA to quit sending out too big a percentage of broken or flawed units. I want Line 6 to SUCCEED! Dont you? You dont get that by hiding under a tag from your opinions or refusing to state anything negative just because it bothers you to do so. You may say im less than discrete by stating all this, and maybe so- but in not saying what you feel could have been better done because its not politically correct,  is just not my cup O soup.... SAME GO's when they do good.... I have praised them AND chastized them here OPENLY . Have you?  I have nothing to hide. Most crazies dont... If Line 6 has issues with their stuff and you know about it, then state it here unless you are forbidden to by contract. THAT IMHO was not being done by alot of these users and experts here, and the very few that were doing this (Merlin is one) , were then rode hard and put up wet ridicule wise. Oh yea they were just joking, thats right....   So this may be the most backward way in the world to get things done so that we all have a better forum (my pipe dream only it seems sometimes) and better products, but its my way... And so if I need a Shrink for this kind of logic then so be it. Im nuts... Just color me crazy...



Re: Grimlins !!!!
by phil_m on 2012-10-05 12:09:45

Frankly, no one here knows what the actual failure rate of any Line 6 product is. All we have is a bunch of anecdotal evidence, and most of that is from a self-selected sample. I do know that when people put a lot of energy into finding faults in something - a company, a product, people, whatever - it's usually not too long before they find them.



Re: Grimlins !!!!
by Triryche on 2012-10-05 12:12:30

The best way to criticize Line6 is to contact them directly.

On this page

http://line6.com/company/contact/">http://line6.com/company/contact/">http://line6.com/company/contact/

There are these links to costumer feedback, product feedback, and complaints.

http://line6.com/company/contact/customer_feedback/">http://line6.com/company/contact/customer_feedback/">http://line6.com/company/contact/customer_feedback/

http://line6.com/company/contact/productfeedback/">http://line6.com/company/contact/productfeedback/">http://line6.com/company/contact/productfeedback/

http://line6.com/company/contact/complaint/">http://line6.com/company/contact/complaint/">http://line6.com/company/contact/complaint/

And yes, they really do read them!!

Probably more so than the forums.



Re: Grimlins !!!!
by Triryche on 2012-10-05 12:20:25

Nobody is under contract to not criticize Line6.

It is likely due to the honest criticism of some of the forum members that helped them get invited to the expert program.

And the post that are gone from the JTV Price Drop thread were not on topic whatsoever.

It is just common courtesy to not hijack other posters' threads.

You sorta hijacked your own thread, but since it's yours, I guess that is your prerogative.



Re: Grimlins !!!!
by spikey on 2012-10-05 13:22:40

Thanks for the Links Triryche.......

Yer right Phil, I dont know the exact failure rates, and have not a clue as to amounts.

But from the amounts Im seeing listed, its too many for my tastes conservatively speaking.

Yes I know- this is where they would list the problems.

I just think there are too many. Hell one is too many for me.  But im nuts



Re: Grimlins !!!!
by silverhead on 2012-10-05 15:45:09

Your fundamental assumption is that everyone has issues and problems with Line 6 and/or their products that they are upset about, and hence anyone who has not posted negative comments is either handcuffed or isn't willing to 'man up'. This assumption is totally incorrect on my part. I have had issues with Line 6 products (e.g., the X3L USB Dropout, a Variax 300 issue, and the 'fizz' issue with the initial Pod HD500 release). In all cases, Line 6 has relatively promptly, conveniently, and under warranty fully resolved my issues.

I also happen to agree with their policy decisions re: releasing software updates.

So believe what you want. I am not being negative towards Line 6 simply because I have no reason to be. And I am not going to invent reasons, or be falsely negative,simply to satisy your warped reasoning or in order to earn your respect. I simply don't care what you think of me.

Rethink your assumptions, and consider that some people are NOT dissatisfied with Line 6.



Re: Grimlins !!!!
by spikey on 2012-10-05 17:51:01

silverhead wrote:

Your fundamental assumption is that everyone has issues and problems with Line 6 and/or their products that they are upset about, and hence anyone who has not posted negative comments is either handcuffed or isn't willing to 'man up'. This assumption is totally incorrect on my part.

No thats just not the case Silver.  I do not think that everyone is upset and has issues with Line 6. But I do think there are issues out there. And some that even you wont discuss openly on this forum because thats just something you have chosen not to participate in, or can not for what ever reason.  And thats Ok, really ok with me, but please dont deny that exists. It insults my intelligence. And Im sure there are reasons for this in which I dont have a need to know perhaps? Where are these issues you have posted then? Id like to read them, and maybe I have them as well.... The "man up"  comment was not thrown out there in anger, or toward you,  or toward anyone specifically other than in general, I just use that slang alot... Texan speak is a slang in itself... Sorry if that offended you or anyone else personally.

I also happen to agree with their policy decisions re: releasing software updates.

Then obvisouly you know something your not saying, once again. Because no one would want to wait for over 2 months now for this update unless they had good reason to...

Rethink your assumptions, and consider that some people are NOT dissatisfied with Line 6.

I have thought about this ALOT Silver, and I do regret that I have said some blunt things that hurt yours and others feelings. I just sat down and played thru my JTV 69 and Pod HD Pro for an hour or so- and was in guitar heaven. I LOVE the sounds Im getting.  Im not one that is totally dis-satisfied either so Im betting Im not alone there. I NEVER thought people in general were dis-satisfied with Line 6...  I may also be dead wrong, and your just a real nice guy that doesnt see anything wrong with anything ever. But, right now I do think you're also holding out on me just a little,  in not stating what these reasons are as to why you are for the hold up in the next patch, and for not having ANYTHING negative to talk about, EVER about a Line 6 product. Post the link if Im wrong about that, and I will apologize... To me, thats just not natural to never have a issue with such a complicated multu-functioned piece of gear as what Line 6 has come up with... So maybe you just dont want to say- and thats ok too.... Peace Silver and Im sorry if I have offended you with my bluntness. That doesnt make me wrong persay, but I can not know the things that you do and have to go by what I read here. If I did know your inside track info, maybe I would understand the reasons why you do what you do....? Perhaps... Its all good.... We all have our reasons...



Re: Grimlins !!!!
by silverhead on 2012-10-05 17:54:29

spikey wrote:

Thank you Silver for that set of rules and regs....

I wasn't describing rules and regs - I was describing website/forum features. There are no rules and regs about when and if anyone decides to use these features.



Re: Grimlins !!!!
by spikey on 2012-10-05 18:00:23

ok, in any case thanks...



Re: Grimlins !!!!
by silverhead on 2012-10-05 18:10:18

spikey wrote:

silverhead wrote:

...

I also happen to agree with their policy decisions re: releasing software updates.

Then obvisouly you know something your not saying, once again. Because no one would want to wait for over 2 months now for this update unless they had good reason to...

Rethink your assumptions, and consider that some people are NOT dissatisfied with Line 6.

I have thought about this ALOT Silver, and I do regret that I have said some blunt things that hurt yours and others feelings. I may also be dead wrong, and your just a real nice guy that doesnt see anything wrong with anything. But, right now I do think you're also holding out on me just a little in not stating what these reasons as to why you are for the hold up in the next patch, and for not having ANYTHING negative to talk about, EVER about a Line 6 product. To me, thats just not natural... So maybe you dont want to say- thats ok too.... Peace Silver and Im sorry if I have offended you with my bluntness. That doesnt make me wrong persay, but I can not know the things that you do and have to go by what I read here. If I did know your inside track info, maybe I would understand the reasons why you do what you do....? Perhaps... Its all good.... We all have our reasons...

I have explained the reasons that I agree with their policy here. See my post#13.

http://line6.com/support/thread/86455">http://line6.com/support/thread/86455">http://line6.com/support/thread/86455

Now, I agree that the timeframe for getting this pending release seems a bit long to me, butso far it is consistent with the delay that the HD300/400 owners suffered after the previous HD500/Pro/Desktop release. But that's a debate about timeframes - not about policy. I'm not for the holdup (I don't consider that to be a policy issue - it's more likely a resource issue) but I am for releasing whatever features/amps are available at the time a given release is ready.

And I have already explained why I don't have much negative to say. It's simpky because I don't have much negativce to say, based on my experience with Line 6 and their products. I have quibbled publicly about my desire to see the HD500 pefrorm better in a studio recording environment (dry out over USB, POD FARM HD plugin, better acsoustic guitar and vocal presets) but really, this is rather small beans. I am just not as upset with Line 6 as you and others are, and seem to expect everyone should be. I I refues to pretend that I am simply for your satisfaction. I am not holding anything back from you - I am perfectly free to express my opinions as Karl has done. I simply don't share those opinions. We are all individuals - we are not a homogeneous group of fan-boys bound by some contract to refrain from negative commentary. Please, finally, believe and accept that.



Re: Grimlins !!!!
by spikey on 2012-10-05 18:14:21

"And I have already explained why I don't have much negative to say. It's simpky because I don't have much negativce to say, based on my experience with Line 6 and their products."

Fair enough.

The part I really liked the best was..." And also because I have a lot of inside information --- wait, I can't say that--- I really don't have any inside info -- or maybe I do........"

Peace Silver...



Re: Grimlins !!!!
by silverhead on 2012-10-05 18:17:41

spikey wrote:

..

Peace Silver...

Really?? I'm all for it if you are. I promise you I won't be the one to start this again.



Re: Grimlins !!!!
by spikey on 2012-10-05 18:19:27

Lets just say that we have broken swords and tired horses for the moment... In the mean time whats the latest on that patch?



Re: Grimlins !!!!
by silverhead on 2012-10-05 18:52:56

Fair enough - and you know as much as me about the timing of that patch. And even if I did know more, that's what I would have to say because that stuff IS under NDA.



Re: Grimlins !!!!
by cgtrox on 2012-10-05 19:02:59

   So, everyone thinks just because we have a "tag" that we can't or won't criticize Line 6 for any reason? Wow, that is so far off from being anywhere close to the truth. Karl is prolly THE most critical user (expert or not) that Line 6 has ever encountered! Yet they approached him to be an expert as well as some of the others in the group, why? Because Line 6 WANTS TO HEAR BOTH SIDES! We talk negatively about products all the time, but we also give thumbs up when it's there! There are a few products that I would never buy from Line 6 and there are some I won't live without! Out of ALL the Line 6 products I have bought over the years, the oldest is my PODxt bean! Solid as a rock, as most of my Line 6 gear (90%) has been! Call me lucky but it's the simple truth. That bean has seen countless gigs and studios.

   I also don't agree with the way they release updates as I too am waiting for the HD Pro update to give me my beloved SLO100!! On the other side of the coin I am not a software code writer but I do know it takes time, a LOT of time to do it. When I bought the HD Pro, I did so knowing the SLO100 was not in it so I am not gonna DEMAND that Line 6 give me a FREE update! It's FREE! You knew what you were buying when you bought it! If you don't see your favorite amp in the lineup, then don't buy it, simple as that! But, we ALL know how this works, Line 6 listens to the forums and writes code for FREE updates accordingly. It's one of the reasons I have always bought and used Line 6 gear, not to mention, it's the best bang for your buck! So, cut them some slack and chill out howlie!!!!

cgtrox



Re: Grimlins !!!!
by spikey on 2012-10-05 19:17:27

cgtrox wrote:

  Wow, that is so far off from being anywhere close to the truth. Karl is prolly THE most critical user

Thats refreshing to read cgtrox...

   I also don't agree with the way they release updates as I too am waiting for the HD Pro update to give me my beloved SLO100!! On the other side of the coin I am not a software code writer but I do know it takes time, a LOT of time to do it.

Im also glad to see that you dont agree with this delay. Most of us dont. Most of us dont understand why Hugo or someone from Line 6 wont "man up" (there's that slang again) and tell us why there is such a delay. I suppose we will take what bones are thrown at us, but still it would be nice to hear from them more on this...  Yes software issues take time. They have had time. I guess they need more time, but thats pure speculation because no one from Line 6 will comment. What is gonna really fry my bacon is when we find out that the patch has been ready for a few weeks now but we "scheduled" to release it on a certain bla bla bla event date.... Naaaah, We wont EVER here that part, will we...



Re: Grimlins !!!!
by cgtrox on 2012-10-05 19:53:15

LOL! Nope, I don't think any company will admit to something like that!

Anywhoo, it's good to see you again bro. Been a while, hope all is well with you man. All we are trying to do is return the forums to the good times when EVERYONE would help a noobie and share tricks, tips and anecdotes with each other and just show mutual respect to each other. There are some very talented blokes on this forum expert and not! This place has such a huge potential to be just that, a positive wealth of help and information!

Always good to see an old friend, cheers!

cgtrox



Re: Grimlins !!!!
by Octo777 on 2012-10-06 02:54:48

I've seen certain users chiding Line 6 for various things and then chiding the Expert Users for defending Line 6 on various occasions making various accusations against the Expert Users.

Well looky here! I'm no expert user, so what you have here is the entirely unbiased and unbought thoughts and opinions of a working musician, who happens to use Line 6 equipment, who has no desire to ever become an expert user and has no significant affilation to any single member of these boards.

My advice: (I don't care if you didn't ask for it, you're getting it anyway)

If what Line 6 do is so bad.............. if the equipment they make is so terrible..........and their failure rate is so awful............and their communication with their customers is crap......... then don't use Line 6 equiopment!!!!!

TADA! Problem solved.

You're welcome.

All this backlash and throwing around accusations makes as much sense punching a waiter in the face because you didn't enjoy your food......and then expecting the waiter to keep on serving you..........




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