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The future of the POD HD platform
by MarioBasler on 2012-10-07 02:31:46

I think that Line made a big mistake by splitting the POD HD platform into incompatible products.

The effects are now clearly visible:

  • presets cannot be interchanged between different products
  • amp models cannot be easily interchanged between different products, best example: Soldano is still not supported by HD 500 while HD 300 got it long ago

Customer are wondering:

  • why does my expensive flagship POD HD does not feature all (and the largest amount of) models?
  • why is the flagship POD HD 500 no longer promoted? dead end road!
  • why are the entry level POD HDs promoted?

This complex list of different and incompatible products:

  • increases Line 6 effort to develop new innovations for POD HD products and
  • does not scale
  • slow down roll out of new features to all POD HD products
  • does not allow Line 6 to react quickly to competition and
  • put Line 6 into a defensive position (see latest rebate announcements)

Just compare to Fractal Audio:

  • One platform, the Axe FX II (Axe FX I deprecated, no longer sold)
  • Firmware 6 with Tone Matching relase in April 2012 (quick response to Kemper Profiling Amp innovation)
  • Firmware 7 with improved sound quality released in August 2012
  • Firmware 8 with enhancements released in September 2012

Competition is always good, see how Fractal Audio has responded to Kemper with lower price, immediate delivery (faking a shortage worked very well over a long time and kept prie high, but there's no build to order process for devices that are all the same...nice trick though!), and increased innovation rate.

Now it's up to Line 6 to respond in the same way:

  • do not respond with marketing claims
  • do not respond with price reductions
  • DO IMPROVE YOUR PRODUCTS!!!
  • INNOVATE!!!

just to be clear: I do not want a 500$ product to sound exactly like a 2000$ product. I just want to get continuous improvements at the 500$ level



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by ThomasMannes on 2012-10-07 04:02:29

Hi,

I´m a pod hd 500 user and I have to agree.

It´s a very bitter feeling to buy the flagship model and realize, that it got at least less amp models than the other models.

Come on line6, please tell us why?

Best regards, Tom.



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by Warfare on 2012-10-07 04:14:45

Hello Guys,

I completely agree !

However new update seem's to be close ... hope to get all amps this time ^^



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by jimsreynolds on 2012-10-07 04:17:58

Ooookkkkkayyy.

So we have those pesky architectural differences between the cheaper and flagship Pods.  Yep. Its a differentiator:  cheap and capable with limitations vs more expensive and more capable.   Issue with that is ....?

Multiple architectures = multiple firmware development streams.  Each with their own  test (internal and beta) programme.  Tests = bugs = fixes = delays = conflict betwen marketting imperatives and the need to maintain a stable platform.  The stable platform generally wins and IMHO this is correct. Yeah. I would like new models soon but I would rather that my Pod works consistently than works pretty. 

Comparisons with Fractal are a little old at this stage.  Fractal are small which means they are agile, resonsive, have a dodgy supply chain and are expensive.   You can reverse all of these qualities for Line 6.   Two different product approaches and choices.  Choose the one that suits you.  Simples.

As first post go - it is nice to see such effort going into emphasising the benefits of competing products.    Can you confirm what motivates it?



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by mcolquitt on 2012-10-07 05:17:38

I simply can not believe what I am reading.....Two words for our new member...."Search Feature"

Mark



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by CairnsFella on 2012-10-07 05:31:07

JimSReynolds,

No-one likes to see anyone be unnecessarily negative for no reason, but in fairness this poster has not just come on here randomly 'slagging' Line 6, but instead put forward quite well reasoned comments based upon his own perspective.

Equally, you have perfect right to ask for his motivation, though I would not expect to see similar requests from the many people that post a positive initial impression. Ok, so you are specifically asking in regards to the comparison with competing products.. but I would still be surprised if any poster stated an initial preference for the HD to a competing product to be asked for their motivation.

Whilst I am pretty happy. No... actually, very happy with my new HD, I do feel there is a lot of substance to this post. Not in comparison to competing products, as frankly I have little personal basis for that, but in terms of product differentiation. I can personally justify why I chose the 500 over other models, but it does not mean I agree with the firmware release basis. Also, the differences in the line seem to be strangely skewed. For example, why does a lesser model allow wet and dry outputs, when a 'higher spec model' doesnt? Im sure line 6 could (though I am sure wont) justify why these and the other discrepancies raised by Mario exist to 'thier own satisfaction', but it seems mad to even have these anomalies exist for discussion.

Simply put - and call me old fashioned - but each model higher up in 'a' range, should offer more than the model below**. This was always the way I understood things to work. Of course we can sit and debate the pros and cons of each offering (as I say, I am happy with the flexibility the 500 offers over the lesser models). But logically, you'd expect such debates to be fairly conclusive. That is to say a prospective purchaser should just be able to understand that if they want a 'premium' feature, they may have to upgrade. Not, If you want a 'premium' feature, you may have to upgrade where you may get even more features than you require "BUT" will lose features as well. That just isnt logical.

I do not want to sound negative when I defend the OP. As I have already stated - I think my HD500 is great, and I'd hate for these dissatisfactions to bring the HD to a premature end, so I do feel I may be shooting myself in the foot. If there were more positivity, then the chances of future lines following the HD architecture would potentially increase, and therefore increase the potential duration of support for these models.

**This is just for the pernikity, but Im sure one could argue exceptions to this rule. For example if you buy a more expensive car, then you may get leather seats and aircon and more performance, but you lose fuel economy. however such examples are fairly baseless, as fuel economy / performance are clearly incompatible, whereas the differences we are talking about re: the HD have no such mutual exclusions... until they are manufactured that way, of course.



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by DeanDinosaur on 2012-10-07 07:07:10

You have some points regarding the updates and different platform etc. I think complaining is good as hopefully it pushes for further improvement to any product, but to compare the POD HD to AXE II from  Fractal and not mention the following doesn't give the real picture:

1-To get the functionality of PODHD 500 from Fractal you need to spend $3000 since AXE II doesn't have a controller

2-In a mix, no one will be able to tell the HD from AXE II and you can ask anyone who upgraded to the 2k-3k AXE II from a POD HD and they will tell you there was no real or signficance notable advancement in the Modeling. You don't believe, go audition an AXE II and you'll know what I'm talking about.

3-Line 6 the way I see it is a company that isn't only driven by the bottom line (they still have to pay bills like all of us so they have to make a profit); line 6 is making its technology to the masses, rich and poor. AT $300 a POD HD300 can give you similar technolgy to what Fractal is charging 3000 (AXE II and controller). If you slow down and think about that for seceond, it trully is siginficant that Line 6 is bringing Joy and happiness to musicians from all walks for life and income level (except for a small group who has become addicted to updates that the updaes have become the object of obsession and a hobby in itself that compete for time with actual playing)

4-What line 6 sells in one day is more than Fractal will sell throughout all of its existance probably! Fractal business model is based on greed and to get the most dollars 

5- In the end of the day line 6 is providing the music industry and musicians with cutting edge technology for reasonable prices. Fractal has nice modeling, but it will be insignicant in the grand scheme of things as not enough musicians are using their gear due to outrageous pricing. Line 6 sound is on more records and commercial music than fractal will ever be..

Last but not least

6-If you want a fair comparison of what you would get for the same money from Fractal and Line 6, Line 6 is the clear winner by a loooong shot and you won't be compromising quality.

From Line 6 if you get : POD HD500, one of the DT amp series, Modeling Guitar JTV Variax, you will end up spending about 2.5K,  From Fractal you get an AXE II and their expensive controller for 3k.

A POD HD into a DT50 will sound better than AXE II plugged in Fractal disontinued atomic reactor or any FRFR of anybodies choice. I will not elaborate any further because it should be clear to anyone to see how lopsided this is in favor of line 6, and if you'r in doubt, go try out POD HD into DT and compare with AXE II if you have access to a friend or anyone who has one..



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by Octo777 on 2012-10-07 08:19:06

MarioBasler wrote:

Just compare to Fractal Audio:

  • Firmware 6 with Tone Matching relase in April 2012 (quick response to Kemper Profiling Amp innovation)

Competition is always good, see how Fractal Audio has responded to Kemper with lower price, immediate delivery (faking a shortage worked very well over a long time and kept prie high, but there's no build to order process for devices that are all the same...nice trick though!), and increased innovation rate.

This is under the assumption that The Fractal tone matching was in direct response to Kemper........ for all anyone knows, Fractal could have been working on Tone Matching for a long time before the Firmware update that included Tone Matching.........just a thought.

And for the record, I should clarify that even as an HD500 user, I really like the Axe FX, and will probably buy one at some point, so there is no skewed sense of loyalty or anything in my reply.

I love how a person can come along and make a lot of speculative assumptions and give advice to a mult-national company on their R&D and Marketing Strategies and question the entire future of the HD Platform because basically their "more expensive flagship" device has an amp or two less than the cheaper models.......



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2012-10-07 09:53:37

MarioBasler wrote:

Just compare to Fractal Audio:

  • One platform, the Axe FX II (Axe FX I deprecated, no longer sold)
  • Firmware 6 with Tone Matching relase in April 2012 (quick response to Kemper Profiling Amp innovation)
  • Firmware 7 with improved sound quality released in August 2012
  • Firmware 8 with enhancements released in September 2012

First, I understand you're not comparing the AxeFx to the HD, but rather the update model.  I get that, and it's a valid point to say that the HD doesn't get the same level of attention that the Axe-Fx does.  However, 2 points:

1.  The $2000 you pay for an Axe-Fx includes the cost of developing and releasing multiple updates.  At $500 per unit, although more units are sold, there's just not the same budget for R&D and updates.

2.  Those updates on the Axe-Fx come with a price, and that is:  endless tweaking.  While it isn't reasonable to expect no sonic change whatsoever, it's like Fractal just can't help themselves and continuously refine the sound of existing models, for better or for worse.  And I hate to say it, a lot of times it's for the worse INITIALLY.  What I mean by that is that you need to re-tweak your patches after every update.  Eventually you might get it sounding as good or better than it was before.  But I don't have time for that nonsense.  Randall Smith doesn't break into my house at night and re-work the circuits on my Mesas.  They sound the same as the day I bought them.



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by CairnsFella on 2012-10-07 18:29:05

I'd be surprised if the OP came back again after the responses posted. I still struggle to see what was said the OP said to illicit such responses from most (not all).

For example, the op clearly said he didnt expect the HD and the Axe to perform equally, yet one lengthy response explains to the OP - as far as I can see - how the HD is better, and how that it would cost him more like $3000 for the Axe, than the $2000 stated (even though this includes a controller that the OP hasnt actually indicated that they would require..... as I dont even think this is relevant to the point). I just dont see how it's really a response to what was posted. It may be the 'real picture' of what the respondant is discussing, but what does it have to do with the point of the OP.

Another suggests that 'a lot of speculative assumptions' were made, and innapropriatte advice given. From what I read it was just a point of view regarding the apparant direction of the product.

I guess everyone has a right to disagree, but its sad that a viewpoint made in a reasonable manner garners responses that are sometimes less subsantiated than the points they are dismissing.

As a newbie, I just feel it is sad that such things occur, though I am grateful to those that have provided the OP with some useful and constructive thoughts that still give me reason to visit and learn from  these forums.



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by spikey on 2012-10-07 20:41:36

I like pie... I think what everyone expected when the HD3/4 and 500 were released is that because they look so similar in apperance that they were made the same. Im still wondering why they arent more alike myself (just for manufacturing reasons if nothing else), but obviously they are not-, especially on the inside. Another budget head scratcher i must contemplate... And for the OP's edification, the HD500 is not Line 6's Flagship modeler, the HD Pro is. Small potato's but still... I assume that there are several R&D groups working in different rooms in the Line 6 building, each with their own tasks at hand. And as always in any company, sometimes one group wont talk to the other one,  for what ever reason... That may be why the Pods are different. And then again, they could have "planned" it this way for reasons unknown to any of us.  Speculation... And Im betting that the next update will bring the HD series its last major one, but I hope Im wrong.  That is again, pure speculation. These guys have to eat after all, and only selling new stuff allows this to happen after a little while... Even so, Im getting some really nice tones now, and more is gonna be nice. I had a Axe Ultra. yes it sounded nice. I tweaked on it as much as I do now on the Pod Pro. I went to practice last week with a supersonic and a compressor in the efx loop. That sounded nice too.. The point is, Line 6 makes (when their QA is awake) some really nice sounding stuff that mostly doesnt cost 2 grand.  TOYS... Did I say I like toys and pie?

PS .... If the OP thinks for a second that Line 6 is now in a defensive position because they agreed to knock off $200.00 from the JTV series guitars, then Im guessing that the OP does not understand retail (or I dont) ,  and knows that for everyone of these guitars that are sold at $1299, thats around 3 XXX + overhead the cost of making just one for them.. Nothing wrong with profit.... Im just saying that I think the $200.00 off is just to move them out of the warehouse faster due to a sluggish overall economy... The $200.00 off means less ice for the punch bowl at the next Line 6 Christmas party in the Bahamas...



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by cgtrox on 2012-10-07 22:33:07

I was just thinking, isn't that the way car dealers and so many other product manufacturer's do it? You have a "base" model then add bells and whistles accordingly when models change? I was shopping recently for a Tahoe and I found out there were a few models, so I applied it to the HD series...

Chevy Tahoe LS (base model) = HD300

Chevy Tahoe LT1 LT (mid range model) = HD400

Chevy Tahoe LT2 LT (midrange with a bit more) = HD500

Chevy Tahoe LTZ (fully loaded w/leather!) = HD Pro

cgtrox



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by CairnsFella on 2012-10-07 22:56:24
I was just thinking, isn't that the way car dealers and so many other product manufacturer's do it? 

I really hope that your post was a coincidence and not in any way reference to what I had previously stated. If not, whilst Im a tad reluctant to perpetuate this comparison (even though I started it) you seem to miss my point here entirely.

First of all, I would have thought everyone knows that progressively more expensive items in a product line represent progressively more prestige models (I dont say this to be sarcastic, but to genuinely establish what I am missing in this revelation).

Secondly - and more to my original point - In these car examples youd be hard pressed to find features included in lower models that are

- achievable

- desirable

- missing

in the higher models. (or indeed in most other consumer items)..... but such features are evident across the HD line (Maybe not many, maybe not important to some, and maybe where addressable in software, this will happen.... but currently evident, none the less)

In other words, the HD series does NOT adhere to the a conventional definition of product placement within a product line.



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by solomon1982 on 2012-10-08 03:07:31

Hi Guys,
I'm very new to this POD HD world. I just bought the HD500

Can you tel mee what are the the exta amps or features that are in 400/300 and not in 500.

I also had a Boss GT10, and also GT8 for years.. they were doing this dual amp thigs for 12 years now,
and it was very fearsome when I was playing arounf with 2 amps, 1 stompbox a delax, phaser and a reverb... and got the message of "NOT ENOUGH COMPUTING POWER"

Isn't HD500 more powerfull than HD300/400? Or they share the same dsp?

BR
Istvan



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by CairnsFella on 2012-10-08 03:24:10

Solomon,

Im sorry I cant answer all of your questions (For one, I dont know about the DSP per se), however, overall the 500 has significantly more flexibility than the lesser models.

At the the current time, however, the 500 has less amp models. This, I am led to understand, will be rectified in a future update) Though whether this will bring parity, or superiority on this front I dont believe has been made clear).

One other aspect I am aware of, is the ability to record dry though USB whilst monitoring wet through other outputs. This cannot be done on the 500, but can on one or both of the lower models (I cannot recall which). I am also unsure that this can be rectified via software (though I'd love to be wrong).

There may be more, or this may be it, I couldnt say. Either way, if it only ends up being the dry/wet issue after an update I am still somewhat disappointed that such a discrepancy was allowed to exist. This shortcoming is a personal disappointment though, and I am not saying it bothers a large number of other users. I also chose the 500 knowing this limitation, and whilst I do not regret the choice, it was a close call for this reason alone, and reiterate my feeling that going up the model line should only bring extras, and not include losses.



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by hollis1003 on 2012-10-08 04:16:52

Line 6 needs to become the leader in this industry of modelled amps, guitars, and effects.  Here are the options and I personally feel they should pick one and stick with it:

  1. Put out a deeply debated "finished product" and then dribble out "fixes" and "free updates" at no charge and seemingly no ryhme or reason. (this seems to be their current MO)
  2. Put out a product with the promise of some updates and give them out for free.  Still no rhyme or reason but based on user feedback. (seems to be Axe-FX MO)
  3. Put out a product which could be considered complete but then give free "bug fix" updates and sell upgrades of amps and effects packages to enhance the product.

Now, number 3 is what Line 6 did with the POD XT and people complained about having to pay for upgrades.  In my opinion, however, everyone should be happy with what they get and paid for, not be able to complain about what they got for free.  By selling amps and model packs you eliminate what are currently legitimate complaints about what a product can and can't do and what was promised.

If you look at all the companies currently in the same business as Line 6 which include but are not limited to: Boss, Fender, Fractal Audio, Rack Eleven, Zoom, and software based products like guitar rig.  These companies all do variations of the 3 policies I have explained.  Also, the companies have changed this "policy" several times as they develop new products, leaving the consumer confused. 

Line 6, please choose a clear understandable policy related to software updates (the future of all digital products) so that you become an industry leader.

What I prefer is that a finished product be delivered initially.  The finished product may need an update for minor bug fixes but should be everything that is promised.  It should include a good variety of amps and effects with an editting software that is robust and usable.  Your customers that have been buying your products for years will need to understand that it is a finished product when they buy it and that you will offer updates in the future at a reasonable price.  The idea of model packs for clean sounds, classic sounds, and modern metal sounds is the most plausible.  If you know you are going to get money for these upgraded packs, there is no way it would take 6+ months between upgrades. 

The HD line is fantastic sounding.  I think the level of detail put into the amps is incredible for the price point.  The Axe-FX is debatibly better, but a price point 4 times the cost.  I think if you were to come out with another product being the evolution of the HD line you would actually not need to improve on the amps.  What you should do it add more amps and more processing power.  Also, a bigger pedal board with more switches (another row of 4 switches for fx and another expression pedal).  You could sell such a product very easily at an $800 price point.  By adding the extra processing power, software updates for $20-$40 would be easily continued for years.

I know the money is made on new products but technology is getting to a point in which you can't just put out a new product every two years and expect people to drop the old one and buy the new one (unless they are Apple disciples).  You need a constant stream of money which the updates would provide.

Please continue to be a leader in the industry. 

Just my two cents, please flame away.  My opinion is not intended to be the final word on this.  I just think a clear vision is needed. Devoted Line 6 fans should have understanding of where Line 6 is going as a company. 



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2012-10-08 05:00:36

solomon1982 wrote:

Isn't HD500 more powerfull than HD300/400?

Yes.



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by solomon1982 on 2012-10-08 05:16:24

As I described it failed with Dual tone + tubedrive+phaser+delay+reverb

it's so powerfull and flexible that marketing says 8 possible effects in row, and I can't use more than 4.
And it's quite a BASIC setup.. a must have + a modulation.

Are you sure that it's loaded with stronger DSP?

I just updated the firmware yesterday, can it be that this will introduce an optimization?



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by silverhead on 2012-10-08 06:45:40

CairnsFella wrote:

...

One other aspect I am aware of, is the ability to record dry though USB whilst monitoring wet through other outputs. ...

I am not going to engage in any debate about differences of opinion here, but I do want to point out that it is the HD Pro - not the HD300/400 - that provides the Dry Out feature. And, based on price, I don't think one could consider the Pro to be a lesser model.



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by MerlinFL on 2012-10-08 09:52:38

YES YES YES - well said hollis!!!! 

I hope I can write this without derailing this thread.

Really well done Hollis - I've been writing in and posting suggestions about model packs, user installable boards with amps, reverbs, wahs, each with their own DSP which would eliminate all DSP limit messages as each board would be what each user wants instead of getting things chewing up DSP and not ever being used. 

It works for POD Farm - why not next Gen the POD HD units into at least what all the keyboard manufacturers seem to know how to do, or even what Egnater did with one of their amp lines.  Want an amp with all the bells and whistles?  Buy the board.  For example.



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by phil_m on 2012-10-08 10:04:08

Line 6 needs to become the leader in this industry of modelled amps, guitars, and effects.  Here are the options and I personally feel they should pick one and stick with it:

Well, if you're going by sales, I think they already are the industry leader. I'm not sure where it stands now, but in 2009 and 2010 (I think) they sold more guitar amps than any other company in the world.

I think in some respect, a company has to choose if it wants to be mainstream, or it wants to be completely cutting edge. Line 6 has done an OK job at treading that line, I think. There's always room for improvement, sure. I think one thing to consider (without going into details here) is that any company is subject to unforeseen issues coming up. Delays don't usually just happen because of lack of effort. There are usually things happening behind the scenes that influence these things.

Personally, these kind of threads seem kind of pointless to me. We all have things we want or things we'd like to see. Sometimes we get them, sometimes we don't. The question I keep coming back is it easier for me to sound the way I want to now than it was 4 or 5 years ago? If I'm honest, I have to say yes. Having a JTV69 alone has made my life quite a bit easier.



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by CairnsFella on 2012-10-08 15:50:21

Silverhead,

I have no reason to disagree with your comments regarding the Pro's capabilities.

I know I have read. more than once, however, that there is a way on one or both of the 300/400 units to monitor a stereo signal through one of the outputs, whilst recording a dry stereo signal over usb. On the 500 I have only read workarounds with hard panned mono signals.

However, as I do not have time at the moment to track down where I have read this, I will withdraw my assertion (at the end of the day, the fact that I have read it doesnt make it true I guess.... but then how else do I learn.)

Once I do locate the information, I will come back and reference it. Though I will not be able to verify it as I only have the 500.



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by ozbadman on 2012-10-08 20:02:41

Hi Mario,

And welcome to Line 6.

You've raised a lot of points in your post and obviously put a lot of thought into it, but I think your original comparison is invalid. The AxeFX and HD series are two completely different beasts, with different goals and hence, different company goals. It's like comparing a Toyota Prius to a Ferrari. Which is better? Well, it depends on what you want.

In order to not be distracted by incomparable minutiae, I think a more accurate and useful comparison would be between the HD series and the Boss GT-100, or similar price-point modellers.

I think Hollis raises some excellent discussion points about the HD series.

To reiterate what others have said, the HD300 is an entry level model with more limitations than the HD500. The HD500 will (probably in the not-too-distant future) have all the features of the HD300. Personally, I bought the HD500 for what it does now, and not what it may do in the future. Anything above that is simply a nice bonus.

David.



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by MerlinFL on 2012-10-08 20:20:50

Please stop this posting then deleting stuff with my posts attached - thanks.

Crusty - I figure this was just you having a bit of humor and not serious.  I'm not particularly happy my post was removed because you chose to remove yours and mine was tied to it.  I'll remember that for any other post I might choose to make. 

Never tie your post if you think someone might delete theirs as your s will get removed as well.  Try not to reply to anyone other than yourself and just mention to whom you're replying to. 

I've noticed others are gone, but I'm not going to recreate the whole thing from email notices. 

Hollis1003 got it right and that's the main bit I'm concerned with.

From your bit of fun reply I got an email copy of what is as follows to my post stating I had a PRO unit in front of me also as you stated and you wrote that the dry line out is on the PRO unit.  I wrote in part what you quoted...

"I do too Crusty have a PRO unit in front of me in my rack underneath my X3 PRO as shown in my gear photo."

Then I added the relevenet part of the following..."Yes it's there but you forgot to mention it only works for those plugged in by 1/4" inputs and not using the VDI input."  Which I don't understand why it's designed this way, but it is fact.

This was your reply...

Re: The future of the POD HD platform 

created by Crusty_Old_Rocker in POD HD - View the full discussion

MerlinFL wrote:

I do too Crusty have a PRO unit in front of me in my rack underneath my X3 PRO as shown in my gear photo.

You really don't want to go down the path of a Line 6 gear ownership p!ssing competition. :| :^0

Cheers,

Crusty

No I wouldn't want to get into a pissing contest with anyone - I've got prostate problems and would lose at being the better pisser every time. 

Now - just for a further bit of fun - it would be a FUN thing if we got in the same place at the same time and set up ALL of our Line 6 gear!!  That would be a hoot and probably lots of fun. 

Even Line 6 might even be proud of such a display of so much old (Do you still have your older gear?  I ask because we talked about it many moons ago.) and new gear in one place by just two guitarists!!! 

I say if we did it - everyone who owns Line 6 gear gets in for free.  Non-owners, perspective buyers, & just plain ole' tire-kickers pay $2.00, Axe-FX owners pay $3.00 - they're used to paying more anyway.  LOL

Line 6 employees pay $5.00 and all Line 6 Executives and Team Leaders, Project Managers, or Heads of any other departments pay $10.00 and can only stay for 20 minutes so they don't learn anything more then they already do!!! 

Just a bit of fun - I hope it's enjoyed by the readers and especially Crusty.

Cheers to ya Crusty,

Neal



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by solomon1982 on 2012-10-09 01:56:44

Hi all,

I think Mario compared not 2 effect units upon their price and features, so llike HD500 and AXEFX

but compared 2 companies in their specific product strategies.

And I have to agree, not matter what line6 product are priced, but they should not step backward,
saying that we indroduce better sound, but you loose wet-dry recording, you loose dsp power and 2 indipendent affect chain,
you loose a lot of amp simulations, and the possibility to use the effect as vst plugin.

I don't just want to rely on the endproducts quality, but also the brand quality,
how they work, design and updgrade their products.
And currently I feel that line6 moved away from many "studio grade" design aspects, and I don't think that they will be turn it back to that directin with POD HD.

BR
Steven



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by hollis1003 on 2012-10-09 05:56:07

I'm not talking about sales, I'm talking about reputation.  Boss/Roland is a much bigger company than Line6.  Zoom has been around alot longer and so has Fender.

I just think Line 6 needs to set the bar for customer service and digital modelling products.  Merlin is right about having too many options.  I know people will complain but imagine if you only had the choice of a POD HD 300, 500, or rack mount.  That makes sense in so many ways.  If you really want a "bean" product it should have exactly the same software as one of the others, that way you don't have platform problems.

I don't see these thread as pointless.  We are all providing our feedback to the company.  Line 6 has really told us nothing to officially answer the questions be have been asking.  It took a forum member to map out the EQ on the PODs into something that was usable.  We still don't know any details about the modeling going on in the DT series after asking for 2+ years.  These are extremely important parts of the products that Line 6 just forgot about, and even worse, won't address now.

This isn't about what I want from Line 6, I'm making very general suggestions about where they should go as a company.  In the next few years imagine if Axe-FX comes out with something to compete against the POD HD.  They could use their modelling platform and software (like from the Ultra series) and have it produced in China or Indonesia.  You could get a pedal style Ax-FX for probably the same or a little more than a POD HD 500.  It would sound and function incredibly and have WAY more options.

I have thought several times recently about selling my DT50 head, 4x12 cab and POD HD 500 and getting an Axe-FX.  The problem is if I did that, I could barely afford a used Ultra, nevertheless get a floorboard.  I enjoyed my POD XT and when I moved on to the HD I really enjoyed it.  Many of us still long for more options in the HD line and we just haven't gotten that.  The XT/X3 line is now 6+ years old and is just plain outdated.

It feels like Line 6 has moved on into other territories and forgotten all about the POD, bottom line.  Maybe they haven't but it sure feels that way.  I think a modelling floorboard is the number one solutions for most people.  You don't need big heavy racks and a separate pedalboard or to bring your laptop to gigs/practice.  It is the ultimate future.  Live with it and make a decision to make the most awesome floor based FX ever.  TC Electronic has done similar with the G-system, it just doesn't have amp modelling.

Sorry, that last paragraph is all a ramble.  Anyway, I hope this continues to spur conversation and is not seen as "pointless."



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by phil_m on 2012-10-09 06:22:09

All I'm saying if you own a piece of gear that makes you frustrated whenever you use it, you probably shouldn't own it. It's not worth the time and effort trying to lobby a company to change things that it may or may not change. Sell the gear or return it, and move on. Life is too short to spend your time getting frustrated by this sort of stuff. Or better yet, join a band or two. Then you'll actually be busy playing with other and playing for people that you really won't have time to worry about things.



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by hollis1003 on 2012-10-09 07:03:29

This has nothing to do with my current enjoyment/frustrations of the POD HD 500.  It's great and I await the updates with baited breath.

I'm offering advice to Line 6 on how to make a better product and offer better service.

I play guitar plenty. 



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by MerlinFL on 2012-10-09 07:19:12

I think the answer is staring right at us guys.  The answer is Line 6 took all (or certainly a large portion) of their profits from Spider & previous POD sales, plus all other FX stompboxes, etc., and put it all into the development of the new PA system.  Any idea why a company that used to produce such a wide variety of products is now compacted down into (5) POD HD units, (3) distinct guitar body models, and two different DT amps?  Think back before these units came out and how many products can you think of this company produced and decide if my view is correct or very close to the mark.

I agree with both hollis1003 & phil_m's points of view.  None of use know what L6 HQ people think or know, but the ultimate decision about any gear we own is ours to choose.  This does not invalidate disappointment in a company making decision we as players/consumers do not understand, but we can walk away at any time.  I'm sticking with what I have as I'm not prepared to take the huge financial loss that would occur if I did jump off the Line 6 ship right now.

And it's the older gear plus the new JTV guitars are are really keeping me grounded to Line 6.  I was and still am very happy with my Vetta original Vax combination.  Happier with the JTV into the Vetta except the Vetta will not work properly with the JTV to change patches, so I HAVE TO USE the HD500 at least from changing patches on the Vetta while changing guitars on the JTV.

I was very upset in the beginning (when the HD500 first came out & I bought one) as we consumers were promised by Line 6 that the JTV guitars would be backwards compatible with ALL VDI equipped gear.  Guess they lied, or changed their mind, or one person making the public statements had no idea the developers couldn't, wouldn't, or chose not to make that a reality, and one other possibility - the personnel that started the JTV guts part of the project left the company and others were hired to finish and knew nothing -or told not to worry- about how the previous gear worked so they could at least match the patch changing parameters up to the older gear as all Variax guitars work perfectly with all pre-POD HD units?  It's great sales strategy to make units that only work with new gear instead of all gear - right?  One or more of these suppositions must be correct if logic is still used these days.

Midi the HD500 to the Vetta and then JTV patch change and Vetta patch change work perfectly together.  Plus as bonus, I get whatever sounds I want from the HD500 unit (or HD500 L6 linked to a pair of DT50 112 combos) as well if I want/need them alone or in combination with the Vetta.  All the other gear I have is very nice and does what I want, but it's more on the -it's cool I can add this to that- side of things for me rather than really important to my guitar sound side of things.



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by Karl_Houseknecht on 2012-10-09 07:20:11

solomon1982 wrote:

Are you sure that it's loaded with stronger DSP?

Yes.



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by cgtrox on 2012-10-09 19:14:13

ozbadman wrote:

Persrsonally, I bought the HD500 for what it does now, and not what it may do in the future. Anything above that is simply a nice bonus.

David.

OMG!! Talk about THE quote of the decade!! Thank you sir!

cgtrox



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by spikey on 2012-10-09 21:03:15

We all bought the 500 for what it does now. What we didn't buy into is a lesser unit having more features when we bought the 500. I keep reading that Line 6 will fix this soon... ; )



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by hansvaneven on 2012-10-10 00:55:14

Actually I think that's kind of an empty statement, I personally bought the HD500 because I knew (I even believe it was said in the forums) that it would have updates in the future with more models and features, just like ALL previous POD I have owned in the past (and I have owned at least one pod of each line since the first bean came out).

Fortunately I didn't buy it for it could do the first day, because it was full of bugs   and seriously I was underimpressed with the fact it couldn't do reamping via USB or send output to PA and guitar power amp at once, something the previous X3 could do and even the the lower priced HD units can do ... that's a design flaw IMHO!

A few things that are critical for me now are still :

- comprehensive EQ with musical values instead of %, even using meambobo's page it's still pain to use

- some good JC120 models

- better pitch models (chorus etc)

- iron out some bugs in the HD edit (especially when in dual amp mode, I have some funny things happening here)

Cheers

Hans

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgZF8Ebga0A



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by Crusty_Old_Rocker on 2012-10-10 03:34:31

I suspect the OP is sitting back laughing his butt off at this thread.

Cheers,

Crusty



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by Mr_Arkadin on 2012-10-10 03:42:20

I am still awaiting MarioBlaster's post number 2. Come on on guy, let's see you're more than another hit and run.



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by jyflorida on 2012-10-10 12:20:42

You can't really compare the two products.  Fractal has one modeler, Line 6 has many if you count the amps.  R&D is done for all their products, Fractal has one, plus whatever new product(s) they may develop.  I owned the Dream Rig and was very happy with what I could do with it, even if no further updates came out.  Updates were the icing, not the cake.  The sounds I got were great and it was a hell of a lot of fun to use when it worked.

Currently I own the Axe-Fx II.  Got it a couple weeks back after numerous major failures of my Line 6 gear over 18 months.  Expensive?  VERY!  Worth it?  If it proves to be a reliable piece of gear, for me that is something you can't put a price on.  It sounds great.  It's complicated.  However it's not comparable to the Pods for numerous reasons.  So far though, I like it.  Getting great tones as I learn more.

What I'm saying, besides the fact that you can't compare companies or products - differences in price aside - if it were not for all the equipment failures I had I would still be using the dream rig.  I bought the equipment because it suited my needs at the time it was released, not because of what I hoped would be added down the road.



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by ozbadman on 2012-10-10 13:15:19

hansvaneven wrote:

Actually I think that's kind of an empty statement, I personally bought the HD500 because I knew (I even believe it was said in the forums) that it would have updates in the future with more models and features, just like ALL previous POD I have owned in the past (and I have owned at least one pod of each line since the first bean came out).

Fortunately I didn't buy it for it could do the first day, because it was full of bugs   and seriously I was underimpressed with the fact it couldn't do reamping via USB or send output to PA and guitar power amp at once, something the previous X3 could do and even the the lower priced HD units can do ... that's a design flaw IMHO!

A few things that are critical for me now are still :

- comprehensive EQ with musical values instead of %, even using meambobo's page it's still pain to use

- some good JC120 models

- better pitch models (chorus etc)

- iron out some bugs in the HD edit (especially when in dual amp mode, I have some funny things happening here)

Cheers

Hans

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgZF8Ebga0A

HiHans,

I feel I have to defend my "empty statement". To me, it really is the crux of a capitalistic society: If you don't like it, don't buy it, or take it back. Seriously, I don't understand this mentality of "Line 6 owes me....", unless they have specifically said they would provide it as part of your purchase; I would only include significant bugs (that prevented fit-for-purpose behaviour) in this category. I do understand the frustration of individual eroded dreams and wishes, but not the "they owe me..." mentality when you always have the option of selling it (excluding depreciation costs). It must be doing something you like, or the competition can't, or one presumes you wouldn't still have it.

Additionally, your "it was full of bugs" is a gross exageration. It had (and has) a number of bugs. If has a number of features that many (including myself) would regard as ill-considered (especially the % EQ).

All that said, I hope Line 6 has an opportunity to fix some bugs, refine some features, and add some new features to what is already a very good modeller (with some quirks).

BTW, I looked at the Boss GT-100, Eleven Rack, and a collection of other modellers and am very happy with my HD500. For me, its benefits far outweigh its flaws relative to the competition. If they didn't I'd sell it. It's America.

Cheers,

David.



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by hansvaneven on 2012-10-10 13:32:11

Hi David,

nothing against you, but I'm hearing the statement over an over here so, no Line 6 doesn't owe me nothing, but you have to admit that the HD500 was a little empty when it shipped though, and it's clear that there would be updates. I can't sell it, because I love the models and have nothing else to replace it with, my ideal setup would be HD models with some TC effects and BOSS/ROLAND quality. That doesn't mean I don't have the right to NOT like some parts on it, it's a free world and the HD500 is clearly a product that has been designed with updates in mind, just like older products from L6.

peace,

Hans

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgZF8Ebga0A



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by ozbadman on 2012-10-10 13:46:59

Hi Hans,

No problem. I didn't take it personally, and I actually thought your post was very reasonable, apart from not agreeing with it.

but you have to admit that the HD500 was a little empty when it shipped though

And maybe this is where we disagree because no, I don't agree it was a little empty when it shipped. I bought one of the first in the USA and I was very happy with what it did with that very first revision of software. Now, was the software Boss quality in terms of QA/bugs? No, and QA is definitely something Line 6 should put a lot more time into as they seem to have major issues not just with this product. But the bugs that were there even in version one were mostly pretty minor. They have added a few amps, and a few features since this first revision but not all that much (and maybe this is the problem ).

And there's the rub: you basically like it when compared to the competition. And I agree that it would be great to get some updates (and I still believe some will come eventually, but I may be wrong) and absolutely, you have the right to not like anything about it at all. I just think expecting particular updates can lead to disappointment as Line 6 is under no obligation to provide them and I imagine like me, your HD500 brings you far more pleasure as it is, than if you didn't have it at all. I just hope they add the "make me play well" button in any future update.

BTW, I probably agree with your ideal setup 100% (or should that be in Hz?). HD models, TC effects (although I haven't tried these myself, I believe they're excellent), and Boss/Roland quality at the existing $500 price-point.

Peace my man,

David.



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by spikey on 2012-10-10 19:21:54

ozbadman wrote:

Hi Hans,

No problem. I didn't take it personally, and I actually thought your post was very reasonable, apart from not agreeing with it.

but you have to admit that the HD500 was a little empty when it shipped though

And maybe this is where we disagree because no, I don't agree it was a little empty when it shipped.

And how about now, compared with the 3/400?



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by ozbadman on 2012-10-10 20:04:49

spikey wrote:

ozbadman wrote:

Hi Hans,

No problem. I didn't take it personally, and I actually thought your post was very reasonable, apart from not agreeing with it.

but you have to admit that the HD500 was a little empty when it shipped though

And maybe this is where we disagree because no, I don't agree it was a little empty when it shipped.

And how about now, compared with the 3/400?

For me the 500 already does all I paid for so it's definitely not empty, compared to anything. If it gets the additional features that have been put in the 300/400, great. If not, I could always buy a 300/400. Overall though, the extra features the 500 has over the 300/400 are much more important to me than the current extra features in the 300/400. I still think the 500 will have these features one day though and for those of you waiting, hopefully soon.



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by spikey on 2012-10-10 21:21:36

Fair enough Oz, and to each his own regarding what we paid for. No one is saying its not a good product. My HD500 does everything it did when I bought it too, except for one. It's not truly a flagship model again until the update, like it was before. Yes you could buy a 3/400 or an Axe II for that matter, and unless it had all the amp models and features as the Axe I did plus more, you would not have the best of that model line then either. But overall like that gocart in a blizzard, it will get you there..., if your happy with that then great .. ; )



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by CairnsFella on 2012-10-11 01:53:38

It's America.

Cheers,

David.

My apologies. I didnt realise they were regionalised forums.

Could you please point me to the Aussie Line 6 Forum?

(Actually, its not strictly true that I had NO idea, as the spell checker is clearly stateside biased)



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by CairnsFella on 2012-10-11 02:16:36

It's not truly a flagship model again until the update

I would agree (and believe I have stated), that you would expect certain things of the flagship model beyond what we have here...

....but clearly (and I assume we are tactically omitting the Pro here) the 500 still does more and surely is still the best of the model line? I dont think anyone would support the view that the 400 (or the 300) were the flagship models. Equally, I'd expect there are few of us (even us with some gripes) that would change to a 300 or 400 if we could go back and choose again.



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by spikey on 2012-10-11 04:06:46

the pro is not (as I have incorrectly bunched in before) a floor model persay. I dont include it for that reason altho it needs this patch too and funtions the same... Yea the 500 still can do alot more esp when patched up. I need another status report... Where are ya Hugo?



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by Akeron on 2012-10-11 04:24:07

spikey wrote:

It's not truly a flagship model again until the update, like it was before.

I'm maybe simplistic but, I think with all the deps, cabs and mics of the HD500 you can imitate the sounds of the new amps and the unit would still be flagship...

PS: Not always possible. The Orange are a bit difficult to imitate... but at the moment no HD unit have them.



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by ozbadman on 2012-10-11 07:53:45

CairnsFella wrote:

It's America.

Cheers,

David.

My apologies. I didnt realise they were regionalised forums.

Could you please point me to the Aussie Line 6 Forum?

(Actually, its not strictly true that I had NO idea, as the spell checker is clearly stateside biased)

Australia? Where's that?



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by Crusty_Old_Rocker on 2012-10-11 07:57:12

I suspect the OP is sitting back laughing his butt off at this thread.

Almost 5 days and still no sign of the OP. 

This is great work by the OP, just throw down a post that's so obviously going to start yet another "Line 6 should do things the way I tell them to" thread, pop some corn then sit back and enjoy the show.

How cool is that? 

Seriously, this is funny stuff.  It'd be hilarious if the OP were a staff member with the staff placing bets on who'll say what.  Let's face it, nothing original has been said here by any of the usual crowd. 

This thread reminds me of the Allegiance episode of STNG.  Observers can sit back, watch and wager on the underlying motivations of the subjects being revealed through what each posts.  I feel as though I'm having a Picard moment pointing out this now clearly obvious intent by the OP and just like Picard, I have decided to stop participating in this experiment. 

Everyone else can feel free to keep spinning their wheel and continue to amuse the OP and his friends.

<a target=new href=http://missmba.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/mousewheel.jpg"class="jive-image" src="http://missmba.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/mousewheel.jpg"/>

Cheers,

Crusty



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by meambobbo on 2012-10-11 08:47:44

Crusty_Old_Rocker wrote:

Let's face it, nothing original has been said here by any of the usual crowd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwQ3pbMzadw

">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwQ3pbMzadw">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwQ3pbMzadw



Re: The future of the POD HD platform
by daferalo on 2012-10-11 09:20:59

Hmmm, I am wondering right now how different is Line 6 from Apple.




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