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song I recorded using my HD500 (instrumental metal) - feedback appreciated
by Santuzzo on 2012-11-08 16:44:08

Hi,

This is one of my songs I just recently re-recorded. All guitars were done with my HD500.

I appreciate any kind of feedback/comments on the tones/playing/song itself/mix, etc.

http://soundcloud.com/larsbauer/metal-5-7-2b">http://soundcloud.com/larsbauer/metal-5-7-2b">http://soundcloud.com/larsbauer/metal-5-7-2b

here is an alternate mix of the same song, this one has a fretless bass on it:

http://soundcloud.com/larsbauer/metal-5-7-2a">http://soundcloud.com/larsbauer/metal-5-7-2a">http://soundcloud.com/larsbauer/metal-5-7-2a

Thanks,

Lars



Re: song I recorded using my HD500 (instrumental metal) - feedback appreciated
by glenneke on 2012-11-09 01:47:50

This is one i always liked and i'm happy you rerecorded it. All instruments sitting nice in the mix.. great atmos great playing.

Can you share the preset for rhythm and solo's.. can listen to this the whole day

I also have your drum preset from the past that i used recently.. edit it a little bit, great drum preset BIG THANKS.



Re: song I recorded using my HD500 (instrumental metal) - feedback appreciated
by Santuzzo on 2012-11-09 02:04:38

Thank you very much for listening and for your kind words.

I'm glad you like it. This song will be on my EP (which I'm currently working on), that's why I re-recorded it.

PM me your e-mail address and I'll send you the presets.

Lars



Re: song I recorded using my HD500 (instrumental metal) - feedback appreciated
by hurghanico on 2012-11-09 03:58:25

nice playing and guitar sounds..

but to be honest, I do not like at all the cymbals, are too dominant and reverberated, they stifle the sense of the rhythm



Re: song I recorded using my HD500 (instrumental metal) - feedback appreciated
by Santuzzo on 2012-11-09 04:19:59

Thanks!

Do you tihnk the are just too loud in the mix or is it the sound of the cymbals you dislike?



Re: song I recorded using my HD500 (instrumental metal) - feedback appreciated
by hurghanico on 2012-11-09 04:31:31

probably too loud or maybe too bright/enhanced..

especially where the rhythmic division is faster the cymbals tends to confuse the perception of the rhythmic precision



Re: song I recorded using my HD500 (instrumental metal) - feedback appreciated
by Santuzzo on 2012-11-09 04:45:25

Thanks!

It's funny, because when listening to my mixes here I thoguhtthe cymbals are too soft and almost get buried under everything else.

Maybe my monitors are low on high frequencies, dunno...



Re: song I recorded using my HD500 (instrumental metal) - feedback appreciated
by hurghanico on 2012-11-09 05:22:17

to be more precise the cymbas parts I don't like much are at [0.18 - 1.25] , [1.42 - 2.15] and [4.29 - 5.36]..

maybe trying a different rhythmic displacements of the cymbals hits (less hits maybe?) give a better and cleaner result..

however, the important thing is that you like it (not me)..



Re: song I recorded using my HD500 (instrumental metal) - feedback appreciated
by Santuzzo on 2012-11-09 05:29:07

Thanks, I will check those parts out.

Your feedback is much appreciated, the constructive criticism really helps me in my learning process. Often I learn more about mixing, playing or (as in this case) drum programming by some things others point out to me.



Re: song I recorded using my HD500 (instrumental metal) - feedback appreciated
by unperfectcircle on 2012-11-09 05:35:10

great tones man!



Re: song I recorded using my HD500 (instrumental metal) - feedback appreciated
by Santuzzo on 2012-11-09 05:38:03

thanks!



Re: song I recorded using my HD500 (instrumental metal) - feedback appreciated
by hurghanico on 2012-11-09 05:46:49

you're welcome



Re: song I recorded using my HD500 (instrumental metal) - feedback appreciated
by chrikiband on 2012-11-09 14:49:03

The track would sound much better without the jazzy symbal sound, the symbal sound natural vintage sound which is fine for jazzy tracks, but for your track you might try the sound of cymbals for alternative/rock/hard rock Cymbal and don't bash 'em really hard.

After all this is my feed back based on what my ears picked up.

will visit this page again to listen to your 3 mix

Good luck



Re: song I recorded using my HD500 (instrumental metal) - feedback appreciated
by Santuzzo on 2012-11-09 14:49:44

Thank you very much for your feedback.

The cymbals I used are actually part of Addictive Drums Metal Ad Pak. I think it's a matter of taste.



Re: song I recorded using my HD500 (instrumental metal) - feedback appreciated
by DeanDinosaur on 2012-11-09 16:09:55

Regarding the cymbals in metal and Rock it's not just a matter of taste.  They're usually muted with the drummer bare hand in  most of the performance except for few parts where you want the cymbal to ring.  Addictive drums are great same as Superior drummer etc.Be careful though  and let me explain.  If you look into the midi mapping for Addictive drums (or any decent drum sampler) you should find notes that you can play or  place after most cymbal hits to mute them that are specific to the plugin your using. Most drum sampler have that feature.

To illustrate this, just listen to the cymbals alone or better yet just play one cymbal and listen to it and see how long it takes to fade out!  If they're not muted with a note or however method you want to use, you will hear those things ring for a good 20 seconds at least. Imagine if your reverb tail rang in all you mix for 20 seconds. Now replace that with a  cymbals that rings for 20 seconds through out the song. In jaz maybe you can get away but even there you still have to use midi notes to mute the cymbals just like drummers in the real world use their bare hands.  If you manage to place the mute notes in the right place, your mix will clear so much even though the cymbals aren't really that loud. You might be able to get them louder but by muting them they will sound more natural and effective. Just trying to help. You mix and playing are good, but that's a great way of improving it. I listened on cheap pc headphones so I couldn't hear the cymbals very well but I know if they're they can use being louder and muted .

for the sake of improving the mix, try cutting the Bass at around 125 to  190Hz using a notch by 4-6DB cut  and boost 80hz by one or 2db and this will also clear the mix..and give you that massive bass.



Re: song I recorded using my HD500 (instrumental metal) - feedback appreciated
by Santuzzo on 2012-11-09 16:25:59

Thanks,

Yeah, I know about the cymbal chokes, but in a real drummers'playing, trust me, there is no way he'd be muting every cymbal hit in a tune like this. They might mute a hit on some accents or kicks, but certainly not through out a whole tune.

This would be a totally unrealistinc (and IMO bad sounding) scenario.



Re: song I recorded using my HD500 (instrumental metal) - feedback appreciated
by DeanDinosaur on 2012-11-09 17:23:41

I gave another listen just to see how the mix can be improved not that it necesarly needs it but because you seem to appreciate feedback.

The clean guitar can use more taming when the lead guitar comes in. To me it sounded like the lead guitar was fighting for it's own space.  This can be achievd in many way. I'm guessing it's an important element so you like there. I recommend placing a side chain compressor  on that clean guitar track with at least 3 db of reduction that is only triggerred by everytime the lead guitar comes in. this would be more consistent with a natural performance where most instruments take a back seat by the other  players playing softer to allow the lead to be heard clearly but they're still there in the silent moments of the lead part...



Re: song I recorded using my HD500 (instrumental metal) - feedback appreciated
by Santuzzo on 2012-11-09 17:37:50

Thanks a lot.

I have no experience with side-chaining compressors, so maybe this would indeed be a good opportunity for me to start trying it



Re: song I recorded using my HD500 (instrumental metal) - feedback appreciated
by DeanDinosaur on 2012-11-09 19:35:15

My pleasure, I'm always trying to learn new things and share what I know if it will help. I certainely don't claim to be an expert , but the tricks that can be done with side chaining compressors or noise gates are too many, but my all time favorite and most useful is getting the lead sound to be clear without getting the whole mix stuck at one level. Cubase has a side chain compressor and most recent versions of DAW have it. If you listen to most Rock instrumental records or even all pop and rock music it's hard to find one that doesn't rely on this trick. All it is a ducking effect similar to narration over music exept that it's subtle enough to seem natural and you decide which elements you want to duck when the lead part comes in, be it vocal or any lead insturment. Adjusting the attack and release will adjust how quickly the ducked instrument/s come back as the lead is fading in and out to almost create a dynamic sense that resembles a real band interacting and changing volume and intensity as appropriate for the part.

Sometimes this same trick is also useful for Kick drums and Bass in cases where the kick isn't coming through nicely due to the bass . You don't want to kill your bass but placing a side chain compressor on the bass track triggered by kick track set up to duck the bass slightly  only when the  Kick comes in will breath so much life into the Kick without damaging the bass. For metal I think this is a very useful trick.



Re: song I recorded using my HD500 (instrumental metal) - feedback appreciated
by MelThorpe on 2012-11-13 13:02:55

I agree about the cymbals. To me this is a Portnoy type drum track where there is a couple different feels going with the cymbals and drums. I would go with this on a tight/slightly loose hi-hat instead of a crash cymbal. Keep it tighter, but yet get the idea of a psuedo poly-rythmn going on.

Good tones. I would make the clean a bit more fender like. A little more pristine. More of a Fates Warning type clean tone.

Great work though. Digging it.



Re: song I recorded using my HD500 (instrumental metal) - feedback appreciated
by Santuzzo on 2012-11-13 13:52:50

Thank you very much! I appreciate the feedback and the kind words!




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