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HD500 4cm with amp AND direct to board w/ cab sim
by splyceband on 2012-12-03 04:02:01

I am considering both the HD500 and the RP1000.   The RP1000 looks to be an easier setup and geared more for using 4cm, but, you cannot be using your amp w/o  a cab sim in the signal chain AND having a cab sim on the xlr's to the board....leaving many frustrated.  I want to be able to use the unit just like that...4cm with my amps preamp, also being able to switch in patches using a modeled clean amp bypassing my amps pre and going back to the effects return on my amp.  I want to be able to do this while also being able to set up a line w/ a cab sim for the FOH.  I have the cabling down, no prob there, just wondering if the HD500 could do this....the dual signal path seems to give the potential for this.....anyone doing it???? Thanks for your input....Peace, Scott



Re: HD500 4cm with amp AND direct to board w/ cab sim
by BeerHump on 2012-12-04 22:48:49

Hi Scott, I don't think the HD500 will do what you want. If I understand you correctly, you want a patch that (while using the hook-up you describe) to have a cab model included in the patch that is only "visible" to the XLR out - so that you're using just an amp model (no cab) going to your amp and then at the same time the same model with cab going to FOH.

There are many waaaay more qualified people on this site than me to comment on this idea, but from my understanding of the way it all works, it's not possible. Guys?



Re: HD500 4cm with amp AND direct to board w/ cab sim
by jimsreynolds on 2012-12-05 02:45:24

... brain ...  straining ....

To be clear on the requirements

1)   Standard 4CM.   'Real' preamp into 'real' poweramp  Effects either side of the preamp. 
Check!  That one is certainly possible on the HD500 and quite common.  Uses the FX Loop block to 'include the 'real' pre-amp in the signal chain.

2)  While in 4CM cabling hookup:   Modelled pre-amp (or full amp) into real power amp. 

Check.  This is easy when hooked up for 4CM.  One simply ignores the FX Loop block on the HD completely and sets up a patch as though jacked direct into a Power amp.  Matching levels with the real pre-amps can be  tricky but is certainly possible..   

3)  Line with a Cab Sim to the front of house.  

This is the interesting one.   I am not clear whether you want that in the chain the entire time for 'real' pre-amps also or just for modelled amps. 

First off ... for a 'Real' pre-amp there is no way to include either a real or modelled power amp/cabinet only in the chain - the HD500 provides preamps and full amps but not  power amps/Cabs separately.  Consequently, the sound may be quite thin and weak when run straight into a desk.  There are options which I will discuss afterwards.

In the case of the 'Modelled' amps:  Yes, you could create a dual path patch that had an amp with cab models on the one path and without on the other.  The headache here is that dual amps take up lots of system resources and you would not be left with much in the way of processing for FX.  You would also need to run in Studio/Direct mode (to get the right kind of cab sims).  In all, it is viable but very limiting.  In general terms you would have a dual path patch with Amp A panned hard left and Amp B panned hard right.  The 4CM cable 4 would run off the 1/4" Left out and the feed to PA off the 1/4" Right (or maybe XLR Right).  Beware stereo FX and routing gotchas.

In your shoes, I would look at some kind of offboard device to route to PA.  The higher end solution is maybe something like this that takes a tap between the amp and speaker  http://www.radialeng.com/r2011/jdx.php">http://www.radialeng.com/r2011/jdx.php">http://www.radialeng.com/r2011/jdx.phpthough you don't get much change from £150 UKP !   One of our Expert users (now sadly departed) used one of these Behringer  Line boxes with built in soeaker sim and reported good results ... http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/behringer-ultra-g-gi100-di">http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/behringer-ultra-g-gi100-di">http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/behringer-ultra-g-gi100-di.  Personally,. I have been wondering if something like this would work well with its speaker sim and parametric for global.  If using this route I would take the connection again from the 1/4" output right and make sure my patch was panned to centre,.  Again, beware stereo and routing ... see here for specifics ...http://foobazaar.com/podhd/toneGuide/setup#routing

">http://foobazaar.com/podhd/toneGuide/setup#routing">http://foobazaar.com/podhd/toneGuide/setup#routing



Re: HD500 4cm with amp AND direct to board w/ cab sim
by BeerHump on 2012-12-07 15:16:14

Excellent information Jim!



Re: HD500 4cm with amp AND direct to board w/ cab sim
by meambobbo on 2012-12-07 20:55:41

you can do "dual output" as mentioned here

http://foobazaar.com/podhd/toneGuide/setup#dualOutput

...but">http://foobazaar.com/podhd/toneGuide/setup#dualOutput">http://foobazaar.com/podhd/toneGuide/setup#dualOutput

...butit requires using the Pod's FX loop send as an output, so you can't use 4CM.

also keep in mind this isn't a simple way to do this and takes quite a bit of sacrifice.  you need to use dual amps, so that's a lot of DSP used.  You also have to double any post-amp effects in both signal chains.




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