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Signal Level Question with HD400 + Boss AC3 Stompbox
by MaddogMark on 2012-12-05 00:04:45

I have a unique setup I need to pull off. I'll try to keep it simple.

I play Electric Cello. I use a Boss AC3 Acoustic Modeling stomp pedal. It has 2 ouputs. A or B (not A+B)

Output A (effect off) is instrument level, and goes to my POD HD400.

Output B (effect on) is Line level, and goes straight to my mixing board/PA.

What I want to do, is get another HD400 or an M13 and send Output B to it. But I'm concerned about plugging a Line Level output into an input designed for Instrument Level.

Can the HD400 or M13 accept a Line Level signal without any problems?

Or is there an adapter unit or something that can change Line Level into Instrument Level?

Hope I described that well enough.

Thanks



Re: Signal Level Question with HD400 + Boss AC3 Stompbox
by jimsreynolds on 2012-12-05 02:04:30

There are certainly devices that adapt Instrument level to line level and and reverse.  Off the top of my head ....

Ebtech Line Level Shifter --> http://www.ebtechaudio.com/llsdes.html">http://www.ebtechaudio.com/llsdes.html">http://www.ebtechaudio.com/llsdes.html

GLab SA-1  --> ">http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.glab.com.pl%2Fsa-1_en&ei=0Rm_UPvyJeXQ4QSj74DgCw&usg=AFQjCNFABzbHfNg4uEJMIx8rssWo-olzsA&sig2=Y4Rp-IMlWVQLO_-A2g6BKw">http://www.glab.com.pl/sa-1_en">http://www.glab.com.pl/sa-1_en">http://www.glab.com.pl/sa-1_en

The alternative is to plug the Line out on the AC3 into the FX Loop Return on the HD400.  This can run at line level if required.   I think you may lose your first effects block but the rest should be ok.  You would need to configure the FX Loop within your preset.

Depending on what you want:  you could even look at using the FX Loop Send to go out to the amp (set at instrument level) and the main POD output to go to the PA (at line level).  You would need to mess with the FX Loop Mix control to ensure that you still got signal at the output but you would get most of your effects and use just the one output on the AC3



Re: Signal Level Question with HD400 + Boss AC3 Stompbox
by MaddogMark on 2012-12-05 07:33:51

To clarify more, my goal is to plug first into the AC3, since it also acts as an A or B switch.  From the AC3's 2 outputs, I want 2 separate effects processors.

When the AC3 is off, it sends a dry signal (output A), which I would like to process with effects tailored towards heavy distortion style of music.

When the AC3 is on, it sends an acoustic modeled signal (output B), which I would like to process with effects tailored for that 'real cello' sound.

This way I can switch back and forth between 'clean authentic cello'  and 'heavy metal cello' with 1 stompbox. Each with its own separate  effects processing. (2 HD400's)

This also enables me to have 2 separate channels on my mixer, since I use the HD400, I don't use an amplifier. I just record directly, or play through the mixer/PA system.

A little digging yielded me the "REAMP JCR" by Radial Engineering. This looks like it does precisely what I need, but also costs $200.

If thats my only option, so be it. I was hoping for a cheaper alternative.



Re: Signal Level Question with HD400 + Boss AC3 Stompbox
by Mr_Arkadin on 2012-12-05 08:45:08

Can you clarfy if you actually use the AC-3 modelling sound - or are you just using it to switch?



Re: Signal Level Question with HD400 + Boss AC3 Stompbox
by spaceatl on 2012-12-05 09:17:16

here's an idea....instrument into AC3 input as you are doing...

AC3 output A goes to HD400 GTR in...set the FX Loop in the HD400 POST, 100% Mix and stomp level....jump the L send to the L return with a patch cable...AC3 output B to FX Return Right...

So, this would mean that the LEFT XLR is more of less what you have now and RIGHT XLR is pretty much clean since the FX Loop is post...I have an HD400, but I don't have an AC3 to try this...I tend to think that a managed output configuration like this might work a little better on an HD500 where there is a bit more control on the levels and chaining, but it seems to me that this could work and might make plugging things up a bit more staight forward...



Re: Signal Level Question with HD400 + Boss AC3 Stompbox
by scheater5 on 2012-12-05 09:20:44

I think some lateral thinking might solve your problem easier.  If you're going to be stomping on something - and using only one sound at a time....why not stomp on the HD400???  The 400 has an effects loop. 

Cello -> Pod -> FX send -> AC3 -> FX return -> Pod -> PA/recording device.

Then set your patches up accordingly.  In the metalz! patches, don't use the FX Loop block, in the acoustic patches, use the FX Loop block in the first slot.  Then you can change patches to change sounds, and no more mucking about with line levels.



Re: Signal Level Question with HD400 + Boss AC3 Stompbox
by MaddogMark on 2012-12-05 09:26:23

Yes, I am using the acoustic modeling. If I wasn't, I'd just go get a cheap A/B switch



Re: Signal Level Question with HD400 + Boss AC3 Stompbox
by MaddogMark on 2012-12-05 09:30:45

This MIGHT work, but I'm not the deep editing type, and it would also mean I didn't have 2 independent channels either. I would prefer to have my clean/distorted on 2 separate mixer channels. I don't mind buying another HD400, as it would give me the advantage of having a dedicated processor for each signal.



Re: Signal Level Question with HD400 + Boss AC3 Stompbox
by MaddogMark on 2012-12-05 09:41:39

That does seem pretty straight forward. I may give this a try. It seems to be viable for live applications, though I still would like to have 2 indepedent channels for recording.

Are you sure the FX loop can handle the different signal levels from Send to Return?



Re: Signal Level Question with HD400 + Boss AC3 Stompbox
by scheater5 on 2012-12-05 09:43:10

I see above where you responded that you want the outputs on seperate chanels.  I'm not super familiar with the 400 vs the 500 (which I own), but if the 400 can do a stereo chain, you can still achieve this.  Make all your acoustic patches use only the left side of the chain (again, with the FX loop in the first block), and then use the Left out - conversly with the metal patches, right side of the chain, no FX Loop, and Right out. You can use the mixer block to mute the unsed side, ensuring that the unprocessed signal does not go to the board.

If I am mistaken, and the 400 cannot seperate stereo chains, then rather than buy an additional 400, you may be better served by selling your 400 and buying a 500.



Re: Signal Level Question with HD400 + Boss AC3 Stompbox
by scheater5 on 2012-12-05 09:45:48

The 500 has setting for send and return cut and boost - I'm pretty sure with this setup you shouldn't have to worry about line vs instrument level.  Everything will be at instrument level. 

Can someone more tech-y than me confirm that?



Re: Signal Level Question with HD400 + Boss AC3 Stompbox
by MaddogMark on 2012-12-05 09:53:46

I appreciate ALL the responses. None of this would be an issue if not for the AC3 modeleing drastically improving the sound of the electric cello.



Re: Signal Level Question with HD400 + Boss AC3 Stompbox
by MaddogMark on 2012-12-05 10:12:03

THANKS!!! I consulted the manual and the 400 does have FX level adjustments. Both a switch on back AND internal send/return adjustments.

Unfortunately, it does not allow for a stereo chain configuration.



Re: Signal Level Question with HD400 + Boss AC3 Stompbox
by scheater5 on 2012-12-05 10:23:24

Perhaps all is not lost.  If there is a way on the 400 to mute (or make the level 0) on one side or the other, that would be just as well.  If it has stereo outs, I would think it would have a mixer block like the 500 - or perhaps a pan pedal cocked to one direction?




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