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Just a little question out of curiosity re: Od's and Distortions.
by CairnsFella on 2012-12-08 16:45:50

Hi all,

Hi alI would first like to emphasise that this in no way constitutes a complaint, it is merely my observation regarding some findings which I would like to confirm I guess.

Basically I have been working my way through all of the FX one by one using a clean amp model to try to become familiar with what is available. I had no familiarity with any of the fx modelled as 1. I primarily play bass, and 2. I have usually used multi fx pedals on guitar.

To try to supplement my research I have also been watching you tube videos for each of the effects as I go through. Before I get to the question, such that it is, I would also point out that I realise there are numerous variables regarding the final sound on these demos versus what I will hear at home, so I am not reffering to the subtleties, or even most of the not so subtleties (having said that I found the majority of the delay and modulation FX pretty convincing).

What I found with the distortion / overdrive FX though, is that on the HD the effect is really subltle until you get most of the way around the dial. When compared with settings used in the vids for pretty much all the models, I was having to get to three quarters drive or so to emulate a quarter on the original pedals. Also, whilst the HD didnt seem to match the extreme settings that most of the videos did either, it was not that far off, and more importantly I wouldnt personally use such high distortion and overdrive settings anyway.

Now I did say this is not a complaint, and it isnt. This is primarily because of my lack of need for the uber gain distortions, but also because of the options available. For example, I could use a suitable amp to add some extra crunch. Or - as I found myself doing to see if I could get similar sounds to the vids - put the vintage pre before the pedal (which actually seemed to work quite well, and therefore had me wondering about the default signal level going into/through the HD).

So, although I am perfectly happy, I remain curious. Does anyone else notice the lack of effect through a large part of the drive's motion, or do you think I have some other set-up problem. I find the latter hard to believe as I have read and read about set up's (and just for the record, I am Squire Strat to guitar in, straight into mixer, then Alesis RA-100 to Celestion PA using studio direct mode, full amp models, Inputs set to 1-Guitar 2 Variax Z-Auto 1/4 out = line, and guitar in Pad (though I have toggled this one to see if there was any significant difference).Oh.. and volume to the max on the guitar.

Any opinions appreciated.

Edit:

I just thought for clarity I should add one small note, and that is I am not saying the drive has no effect until the upper reaches. I am suggesting that it is usually more like a warm gain than producing any of the grittier sounds that the original pedals do at lower levels.



Re: Just a little question out of curiosity re: Od's and Distortions.
by hurghanico on 2012-12-08 17:54:40

the answer is very simple and has to do with your input settings: set input 2 to "same" and everything will be as expected to be..

probably you followed same advices in this forum due to the widespread belief that is better to do the input settings as you already did..

I think exactly the opposite, namely that the default settings are just fine as they are, and should only be touched when you want to connect 2 different instruments at the same time..

with your actual input settings you are all the time sending half guitar signal to your fx and amp.. that's the reason



Re: Just a little question out of curiosity re: Od's and Distortions.
by CairnsFella on 2012-12-08 18:10:25

hurghanico wrote:

probably you followed same advices in this forum due to the widespread belief the is better to do the input settings as you already did..

Well you are right, in the main. That is to say it did have a significant difference, though having re-tested only a couple of the OD and disortion pedals I would still say that the effect of the effect is quite limited in the lower drive ranges when compared with the demos of original pedals. Still, and to repeat myself somewhat, it is quite a notable improvement.

It does leave me with more questions (that I need to answer myself) as I am convinced that I had not blindly followed the advice re input settings and had actually noticed reasons for having them set as I had, though for the life of me I cannot recall why that was !!!!



Re: Just a little question out of curiosity re: Od's and Distortions.
by hurghanico on 2012-12-08 18:28:02

the main reasons that now you don't remember, and on which is based the above belief, are: "noise" and "clipping"..

2 things that are easy to control with well made settings of the effects and amp models..

but with the wrong (for me) input settings is very similar to have all the time the drive halved..

CairnsFella ha scritto:

.....I would still say that the effect of the effect is quite limited in the lower drive ranges when compared with the demos of original pedals....

probably the still missing lower drive range response is due to your GUITAR IN switch set to PAD (a further volume cut)..

...It does leave me with more questions (that I need to answer myself) as I am convinced that I had not blindly followed the advice re input settings and had actually noticed reasons for having them set as I had, though for the life of me I cannot recall why that was !!!!...

unfortunately there is also to say that for unjustified (for me) reasons as soon as you enter the forum you can see through the top contents: "what every HD500 owner needs to know!"


Ok! .. I respect the others opinions, but it seems absurd to me that from quite some time that thread is one of the first things that every new HD500 owner sees when entering this forum ..

it is obvious that given that (apparently) important title a new HD500 owner immediately begins reading that thread and easily believes in everything that's written there.. that in the end are only opinions, mainly based on (wrong for me) beliefs ..

and because of its prominent position, that thread created and continues to create unintentionally many false beliefs, fault of those who manage perhaps too superficially the top contents of this forum ..

I am convinced that because of this, many people from the very beginning always adopt that wrong setting without more thinking about it, denying themselves the true potential of this machine,
without realizing it..

maybe we should ask ourselves why Line6 staff never use that setting for their patches

I seriously doubt that if the staff who designed the HD500 would read that thread would agree whit the things written there



Re: Just a little question out of curiosity re: Od's and Distortions.
by CairnsFella on 2012-12-20 02:59:52

Sorry its taken me a while to get back here. To be honest I got a couple of weeks behind on the forum, and I have been trying to catch up (as I read all pertinant posts, and have a quick scan of even those I dont think apply to me). Im still a few pages behind.

Anyway, since your original response I have been using "same" for most of my patches and have been happy with it. I hate to admit it, but perhaps there is a certain phsycology behind all of this that leads one to perceive things that may not be there (or at least become sensitive to things that exist at an almost infitecimal level).

Either way, I am now pretty happy. Though I must remain honest and say that there is still an annoying amount of level descrepency compared to my limited experience of chaining seperate pedals together. Some effects I find require a pretty strong input before they start to perform and / or a lot of drive / gain etc within the effect itself, wheras others are less demanding.

Still, as with most things, the more I experiment the more used to the quirks I get.



Re: Just a little question out of curiosity re: Od's and Distortions.
by jimsreynolds on 2012-12-20 04:09:29

I think the input options are going to remain controversial.  If you read through that thread there are many people who feel that the i2=variax option has made a real, positive difference to their tone,  despite the input level cut and the headaches that it can cause with routing.  Too many and too specific for it to be simple herd mentality. The are also some power users,  e.g. Meambobbo,  who discern some unwelcome filtering effects when the signals are mixed when i2=same.  I think that pickup output strength is part of the considerations also... Most of mine are pokey and I favour i2=variax.

Others are perfectly happy with i2 = same and will stick with that. 

Wuihat I would say is that the Squier Strat has single coils and possibly not the most powerful output compared to the high output humbuckers or actives fitted to many guitars.  I would definitely run with the pad switch off and consider running with I2=same as Hurganico suggests.  If you find that you want to stick with i2 =variax then perhaps a studio eq as a clean boost at the front of the signal chain would be a benefit.



Re: Just a little question out of curiosity re: Od's and Distortions.
by jjulien on 2012-12-20 07:58:57

Interesting...right now I'm plugged into guitar input but later i know i will be plugged into line l for my wireless...I thought if i set input one to guitar and input to line L I wouldn't have to worrry about making the change later. Does this mean i'm only sending half the signal? That might explaine why i'm struggling to create my tones...



Re: Just a little question out of curiosity re: Od's and Distortions.
by hurghanico on 2012-12-20 08:22:42

I don't know what is the Line L you are speaking about..

anyway...

when you activate a mono fx or an amp in pre-split position, each physical input signal is divided in half, and in this case the virtual inputs 1 & 2 correspond respectively to the Left & Right of the pre-split path stereo channel, therefore to get a full signal you need to set both virtual inputs to the same instrument..

if you don't activate a mono fx or amp in pre-split position, each physical input signal remains intact (full), and the virtual input 1 & 2 full signals are respectively sent to Path A & B stereo channels

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

therefore if you set the 2 inputs different form each other, you'll get half signal at your eventual amp in pre-split position, and also at both your eventual amps in Path A & B if there is a mono fx active in pre-split



Re: Just a little question out of curiosity re: Od's and Distortions.
by jjulien on 2012-12-20 08:34:40

I apologize.... on The HD Pro there are two 1/4" line level inputs on back right and left. on my XT pro i run my wireless in through the line inputs only for the reason of not having any cables in the front of my rack. i plan on doing the same on the HD pro...So what your saying is it depends on the placement of the amp or effects...so since i'm basically just learning how this thing operates I should just make sure that both inputs are set to "same" for what ever input i'm using...



Re: Just a little question out of curiosity re: Od's and Distortions.
by hurghanico on 2012-12-20 08:38:51

jjulien ha scritto:

...so since i'm basically just learning how this thing operates I should just make sure that both inputs are set to "same" for what ever input i'm using...

yes, unless you need to have 2 different instruments playing at the same time, eg guitar and voice/mic

...on The HD Pro there are two 1/4" line level inputs on back right and left...

Sorry, but I don't know on the HD Pro which is the best way to connect to the rear Line level 2 inputs to get unity gain, probably if one of them is labeled L/mono or R/mono you can plug just to that one (if exists) to be ok..



Re: Just a little question out of curiosity re: Od's and Distortions.
by jjulien on 2012-12-20 09:17:55

Yes, Thank you, You are making this learning curve less painfull for me...just to follow up to this so If I go in to one preset and change inputs to both and then to global that should make it the same for all presets?



Re: Just a little question out of curiosity re: Od's and Distortions.
by hurghanico on 2012-12-20 09:29:38

jjulien ha scritto:

...If I go in to one preset and change inputs to both and then to global that should make it the same for all presets?...

yes, absolutely..

but remember that if you change it to "global", the eventual different input settings (always included in every patch) in some patches (you may download to give them a try) will be bypassed, therefore the final results may be different from what was intended by the author



Re: Just a little question out of curiosity re: Od's and Distortions.
by lukegeis on 2012-12-20 21:58:21

I feel that having the input 2 set as same, increases gain to an unrealistic amount and should be avoided. As a stock setting I can see it as a way to increase interest in the way the amp was modeled. With most modelers there is a small range of sweep through each modeled amp that is tested and then a theoretical presumption of effect is modeled into the in between parameter of adjustments. This is why some amps respond better at certain settings and others in another area. It is not an exact replication of how the real deal actually reacts. It's merely a snapshot and guesstimation of how the amp COULD react at X setting. I feel that using the input 2 as same could produce the results I want on certain amps in the range in which I desire them to. I.E. if I find one amp to react poorly at the desired amount of gain, I could bring the input 2 same scenario to increase gain and lower it to perhaps work as desired? It's worth testing for sure.

We have no way of knowing how these amp were tested and their modeles designed? We can only experiment with the parameters we have and see which works best for us. I will admit that there seems to be a sweet spot in most models and that none are a true representation of the original, but that each can be a close second to none also. I don't like stomp boxes and have only owned very few, so I tend to not use any in my presets, but have found that each has something that could be used if desired. I focus mainly on the convincing nature of the amp and preamp models. Do they sound realistic enough, or are they good enough sounding that it doesn't matter if they were real or not? In my experience with the POD, most amps are real enough to pass and some are so good that even if they are no where near the original, they sound great to me! Some also fall way below my desired idea of real. I don't like the treadplate at all and feel the park to be highly unusable....... My favorite amps are the Engl, SLO ( any of them ), PHD and most of the fenders. The Gibson and the Silvertone amp also make my COOL list. I like lots of tight gain and find the Engl my go to amp. I do believe however that it does not have a realistic cleaning up of sound as you roll of the volume on the guitar. It quickly falls apart if you go low gain with it. The SLO on the other hand excels at maintaining real feel with the volume rolled off on the guitar! The other beauty of it is that it does provide great amounts of tight high gain. I use those two almost exclusively.

I use input 2 as mic/variax for 99% of my patches and it seems the most realistic to me. Your results may vary......



Re: Just a little question out of curiosity re: Od's and Distortions.
by hurghanico on 2012-12-21 02:36:58

lukegeis ha scritto:

...We have no way of knowing how these amp were tested and their modeles designed?...

we have a way to know how they designed the input settings in relation to the position of the amp model: the logic

an amp
in path A sounds exactly the same (level of volume and distortion) to when it is in pre-split with the 2 inputs set to the same instrument ..

otherwise, if the 2 inputs are set differently, in pre-split you will get a significant drop in volume and distortion..

you know well that (if there is nothing that is mono in pre-split) in path A can only arrive a full signal from input 1 ..

then the rest of the reasoning is only an elementary mathematical equation:

full signal of the amp in path A = signal of the amp in pre-split with 2 identical input settings

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

anyway the personal tastes are not at issue here

PS.

personally, if it seems to me that a particular amp model goes into distortion too much and too easily, I prefer to turn down a little the volume on the guitar, rather than set up a dummy input 2 ..
or, since I'm a lucky Variax owner, I change guitar model and I choose one with single-coil pick-ups (approximatively half the power compared to humbuckers), which sound and react much better with some of the amps..

speaking of possible harshness fizzness crossover distortion etc. etc. etc... it happened to me to hear the same things with real guitars connected to real amps .. you know.. bad amp settings, bad guitar setup, very old strings, bad guitar strings intonation, bad playing etc etc etc.. everything contribute to the final results..
regarding only the amps it is just a matter of knowing how (or to find how) to make good settings depending on the equipment you use



Re: Just a little question out of curiosity re: Od's and Distortions.
by jimsreynolds on 2012-12-21 05:49:14

hurghanico wrote:

I prefer to turn down a little the volume on the guitar, rather than set up a dummy input 2 ..

That approach can be successful on some guitars but less so on others.  e.g. My strat with EMGs sounds pretty much the same if I back off the volume a little ... just quieter or less gainy.  However, my Tele amd Les Paul have a tone change when I back off the volume.   You can partly compensate for that with treble bleed caps and the like but whether  or not you can live with the tone change is down to taste. 



Re: Just a little question out of curiosity re: Od's and Distortions.
by hurghanico on 2012-12-21 06:09:15

jimsreynolds ha scritto:

...However, my Tele amd Les Paul have a tone change when I back off the volume...

you're right .. I know this functioning ..
lowering the voume on guitar influences a little the tone ..
depending on the case that little tone change may also be pleasant, many professionals use the volume on the guitar while they are playing ..
however you can also use instead a volume pedal by putting it at the beginning of the chain for
not influence the tone



Re: Just a little question out of curiosity re: Od's and Distortions.
by lukegeis on 2012-12-26 16:54:43

The tone change thing when you roll the volume is normal and expected. It happens on any amp and most effects. This is the reason that hey put the TRUE Z feature in the POD HD. This is to mimic the reaction your pickup would have were it to be plugged into that particular amp or effect.

As for which setting for the input is best ( regardless of which input option you desire ) I couldn't honestly say. My feeling is that the input 2 as same, is incorrect for the true amp modeling effect. This is of course my opinion. Having owned many an amp and being able to have played through many more, I see the gain level achieved with input 2 as same, to be a little bit too much.

I too have experienced many of the same artifacts from the modeled amps as the real ones in regards to BIAS settings and other such settings. Having a cold BIAS will lead to crossover distortion and can make for an ugly sounding amp. This effect is modeled pretty well in the POD. Many of the amps will exhibit this effect when the BIAS is low and will fade, or disappear when the BIAS is brought up. Usually around 70% it will go away, which makes sense. Most guitar amps are BIASED at, or around 70-80% of dissipation for optimal performance and tube longevity. Running to the last 90% shortens tube life a lot and may not sound better?



Re: Just a little question out of curiosity re: Od's and Distortions.
by hurghanico on 2012-12-27 06:09:51

lukegeis ha scritto:

...The tone change thing when you roll the volume is normal and expected. It happens on any amp and most effects. This is the reason that hey put the TRUE Z feature in the POD HD. This is to mimic the reaction your pickup would have were it to be plugged into that particular amp or effect...

I don't believe the POD emulated amp/fx input impedance has to do with the tone change when you roll the volume on the guitar.. but instead the tone change is inherent to the guitar circuitry.. therefore the same tone change would still be there from the guitar output for any possible connection, real o modeled..

...As for which setting for the input is best ( regardless of which input option you desire ) I couldn't honestly say. My feeling is that the input 2 as same, is incorrect for the true amp modeling effect. This is of course my opinion. Having owned many an amp and being able to have played through many more, I see the gain level achieved with input 2 as same, to be a little bit too much...

I also played with several true amps, and it seems to me that when the amp is in pre-split position the reaction of the drive control is much closer to reality when the input 2 is set to "same" .. which is in fact the same exact reaction that is obtained by the same amp alone in path A, for which in this case the input 2 setting has no influence..



Re: Just a little question out of curiosity re: Od's and Distortions.
by lukegeis on 2012-12-27 21:40:37

This pre split thing that you two speak of eludes me at the moment? As far as I know when you have input 2 as same it feeds the A & B path the same signal and they sum together at any mono effect, or amp ( that is in the direct path and not split into two paths ), resulting in a higher input signal to that block. When you set the input 2 as Variax, or mic, you get essentialy signal only going to path A when a stereo effect is in place, or only the path A signal going into the path A amp block. Path A is the standard signal path for input one. The path B amp would be nulled from the guitar signal if input two was set to mic for instance. I can see what you mean if you split the amp paths to have an A & B path, that each amp would only see one side of the signal and not have a summed amount of the input in each one. But that is exactly the same as setting input two as something other than " same ". I can see the allure of that if you do a lot of dual amp setups on the POD. Is that what your talking of? If the later is true then reasonable deduction would say that only one input signal at a time would be the true amp, or effect responce to that input signal. I do agree that the amps with amp 2 as same seem to have a bit more gain and have a cool factor to them, I just don't find it realistic to me.

As for the " tone suck " impedance thing. I know for a fact that the tone suck is related to impedance. Impedance works just as you would imagine in a guitar. Guitars volume knobs usually have either a 500K pot ( for humbuckers ), or a 250K pot ( for single coils ). This volume knob pot value is the potential above ground for that circuit and it acts as an RC circuit when connected to an amp. An RC circuit is basically a simple tone circuit which acts as a low pass, or high cut circuit. The guitar and cable which connects to the amp are the first part of that circuit and the potential above ground at the amp, or effect input is what determines how much high end will be eliminated when you roll the guitar volume down. The higher the ground potential ( or impedance ) at the amp, or effect box, the less highs are rolled off. The lower the impedance, or ground potential, the more the highs get rolled off. This is why guitars have different pots for the different pickup types. The single coils have less inductance and resistance and the lower 250K pot value keeps them from being too bright and brittle. The humbuckers have twice as much inductance and resistance ( for sake of argument, but not quite twice as much ) and to keep them from being too dark, they have a 500K pot. The higher ground potential helps keep them brighter. The typical amp is around 1meg and as high as 3 megs of input impedance. The higher the impedance the brighter the amp usually. This is why if you play with the TRUE Z settings of the POD it will get brighter as you increase the impedance and darker as you lower it. When set to auto, it will set the input impedance to be that of the actual effect that is first in your chain in order to mimic the way the guitar would actually react to that effect, or amp.



Re: Just a little question out of curiosity re: Od's and Distortions.
by hurghanico on 2012-12-28 04:34:29

lukegeis ha scritto:

This pre split thing that you two speak of eludes me at the moment? As far as I know when you have input 2 as same it feeds the A & B path the same signal and they sum together at any mono effect, or amp ( that is in the direct path and not split into two paths ), resulting in a higher input signal to that block. When you set the input 2 as Variax, or mic, you get essentialy signal only going to path A when a stereo effect is in place, or only the path A signal going into the path A amp block. Path A is the standard signal path for input one. The path B amp would be nulled from the guitar signal if input two was set to mic for instance. I can see what you mean if you split the amp paths to have an A & B path, that each amp would only see one side of the signal and not have a summed amount of the input in each one. But that is exactly the same as setting input two as something other than " same ". I can see the allure of that if you do a lot of dual amp setups on the POD. Is that what your talking of? If the later is true then reasonable deduction would say that only one input signal at a time would be the true amp, or effect responce to that input signal. I do agree that the amps with amp 2 as same seem to have a bit more gain and have a cool factor to them, I just don't find it realistic to me.

Unfortunately on this subject both the unclear manual and some threads on this forum have contributed to create a lot of confusion in many people ..

if you
really tried to make a comparison between the sound of an amp when it is in path A and when it is instead in pre-split, in the end you would give me right ..

there is little to do, the evidence is too strong to be able to deny it..

starting from an empty patch, activating an amp in path A it receives the signal that comes from input 1 and produces a certain volume level and distortion ..

the same amp put
instead in pre-split results to have the same level of volume and distortion only if the two inputs are equal ..

therefore it is more than obvious to me that when, and only when you turn on an amp (or mono fx) in pre-split, the real
signal at the POD input is halved, so to get the whole signal in pre-split it requires 2 halves, here's what is the purpose of the setting "same", and that's why there is no setting "null"

As for the " tone suck " impedance thing. I know for a fact that the tone suck is related to impedance. Impedance works just as you would imagine in a guitar. Guitars volume knobs usually have either a 500K pot ( for humbuckers ), or a 250K pot ( for single coils ). This volume knob pot value is the potential above ground for that circuit and it acts as an RC circuit when connected to an amp. An RC circuit is basically a simple tone circuit which acts as a low pass, or high cut circuit. The guitar and cable which connects to the amp are the first part of that circuit and the potential above ground at the amp, or effect input is what determines how much high end will be eliminated when you roll the guitar volume down. The higher the ground potential ( or impedance ) at the amp, or effect box, the less highs are rolled off. The lower the impedance, or ground potential, the more the highs get rolled off. This is why guitars have different pots for the different pickup types. The single coils have less inductance and resistance and the lower 250K pot value keeps them from being too bright and brittle. The humbuckers have twice as much inductance and resistance ( for sake of argument, but not quite twice as much ) and to keep them from being too dark, they have a 500K pot. The higher ground potential helps keep them brighter. The typical amp is around 1meg and as high as 3 megs of input impedance. The higher the impedance the brighter the amp usually. This is why if you play with the TRUE Z settings of the POD it will get brighter as you increase the impedance and darker as you lower it. When set to auto, it will set the input impedance to be that of the actual effect that is first in your chain in order to mimic the way the guitar would actually react to that effect, or amp.

your really good explanation of the interaction between the circuitry of the guitar, the cable and the effects and amps, very well describes a behavior related to the interfacing between the various components, but I remain convinced that the tone of the signal, measured directly at 'output of an electric guitar changes always in the same way to changing its volume, due to its internal circuitry.. then, how it interacts with the rest of the equipment, although very interesting, is another story..



Re: Just a little question out of curiosity re: Od's and Distortions.
by lukegeis on 2012-12-28 18:20:22

I will have to experiment some more with this pre split thing and levels from input 1 and 2.......

The tone change that occurs when you roll the volume down does always exist regardless of the impedance, but it is how much that it changes? Because the volume knob is part of the circuitry, it is another part of the equation and some highs will always be shunted to ground. Even if the impedance at the amp, or effect is significant there will always be some amount of high frequency loss. If this is a bothersome thing for you, the effect can be diminished greatly by using what is called a treble bleed on the volume knob. This is essentially a cap and resistor in parallel that allows the highs to bleed past the volume pot. This means that the highs will not roll off as much when you turn the volume down. It has it's caveats though! It can keep the volume knob from cutting the volume all the way off and it can also allow too much highs past ( if you set up the treble bleed that way ) when the volume is rolled down. One of the better ways to eliminate the issue is to use shorter lengths of cable between the guitar and effects, or amp, or to use a buffer pedal / volume booster to change the impedance seen at the guitar. Most buffer / volume booster pedals have a high 1 meg input impedance making the RC circuit retain the high end. This coupled with the way the pedal works ( when engaged ) can reduce very much the high end roll off ( tone suck ) effect.

Some wireless guitar systems are even starting to incorporate circuitry that emulates cable lengths. This is because some users complain that the volume on their guitar doesn't work the same as it does when plugged straight into an amp. What the circuitry does is emulate cable lengths that are between 0-20 feet. This makes it so that when you roll the volume down it darkens the tone up a little. Cable length is the largest contributor to the issue. capacitance exists in the cable and the longer it is the more it naturally sucks tone. This is one of the largest gimmicks that most cable retailers are trying to cash in on. It preserves your tone is the largest one.......They say they use high grade, oxygen free, or exotic materials to keep your tone, but physics don't give a shit........ Capacitance is the only thing that makes it what it really is. Creating a lower capacitance cable is the only way to defeat the phenomenon. Shorter length cables are the easiest way to get around it. Try it sometime. Couple a few 20' cables to gether and listen to the tone, and then run a short 6' between the guitar and amp. My bet is that the difference will be night and day.



Re: Just a little question out of curiosity re: Od's and Distortions.
by hurghanico on 2012-12-29 05:44:49

good explanation ..
maybe I'll experiment with different lengths of cables ..
I must say that in my case I find it natural and pleasant the slight change of tone to the decrease of volume pot level..
it is what I expect, and somehow I consider the volume pot almost as a slight tone pot, and also the true tone pot almost like a
slight volume pot..
if then, the
amp drive/gain surpasses that saturation threshold beyond which there are no more changes in output volume, but there are only variations of distortion and compression, in that situation and within a certain limit the volume pot becomes in effect only a timbre variator ..

many guitarists including me make extensive use of this expressive technique, which finally can be used much better with the HD series improved dynamics, compared to the previous modelers..



Re: Just a little question out of curiosity re: Od's and Distortions.
by CairnsFella on 2012-12-29 20:50:55

jimsreynolds wrote:

I think the input options are going to remain controversial.  If you read through that thread there are many people who feel that the i2=variax option has made a real, positive difference to their tone,  despite the input level cut and the headaches that it can cause with routing.  Too many and too specific for it to be simple herd mentality. The are also some power users,  e.g. Meambobbo,  who discern some unwelcome filtering effects when the signals are mixed when i2=same.  I think that pickup output strength is part of the considerations also... Most of mine are pokey and I favour i2=variax.

Others are perfectly happy with i2 = same and will stick with that. 

Unfortunately I am one of those that just muddies the waters as I have transitioned from "Same" to different e.g. input 2 = variax, and back to "same". (The latter as a result of comments on this very thread).

It makes some sense though, that if you have a hotter output from your guitar the "same" option may be less ideal.... but then again, when using the real world equivilent stomps and amps this 'option' doesnt exist per se. Hmmm. I remain inclined to believe that "same" is the intended correct setting. That isnt to say that it works best for everyone, but I do think that it was intended to.



Re: Just a little question out of curiosity re: Od's and Distortions.
by lukegeis on 2012-12-31 12:11:39

I too don't mind thet way the volume darkens the tone. On some amps it's a bit too much and some FX will also really effect the way it works. My favorite combo right now for my analog setup is a ZVEX S.H.O ( its a copy I made of the pedal ) that is in front of an Egnater Tweaker 15 head. I run the head in it's low gain setting and use the clean boost ( ZVEX copy ) to boost the amp into a really hard overdrive. The pedal has a very high impedance and when I roll the guitar volume down for a more crunchy tone, it still holds some sparkle. The pedal itself has a little of it's own high end addition and helps keep the signal that much cleaner. I can almost litterally roll the volume all the way down to acquire a clean-ish sound and still have the guitar sound very much like it has the volume all the way up. This is not possible without the pedal.



Re: Just a little question out of curiosity re: Od's and Distortions.
by hurghanico on 2013-01-01 04:37:36

I see... so, for what are you using your POD?.. only for effects?



Re: Just a little question out of curiosity re: Od's and Distortions.
by lukegeis on 2013-01-06 14:38:41

No this is my analog amp setup. I run a Rack FX unit in the FX loop of the Egnater head. I do the same with my Peavey Triple XXX. My POD rig is currently a 500HD into a Rocktron velocity 100 amp. The amp feeds an oversized 2x12 Hughes and Kettner cab ( killer cab ). I use predominately all preamp models in the POD and just a couple of FX. I am looking into using it to replace my heavy analog rigs. I just haven't made the jump yet. I started at first trying to go with an FRFR set up and wasn't happy and then went to the more conventional method. I like the way the POD works going into an amp and cab. It sounds really good and is very convincing. The hardest part is scaling it down so it's not as much as a P.I.T.A to cart around as a normal guitar rig. I kinda wish I went with a HD PRO. that way I can have the amp and POD in one rack. But then I have to have a midi controller, so it stinks either way.......... I wanted a super cool, highly portable rig of rigs. I have the capability minus the portability still. I have a couple 1x12 cabs which kill with my Egnater head, but they don't sound so good with the POD. I'm never gonna be happy......



Re: Just a little question out of curiosity re: Od's and Distortions.
by hurghanico on 2013-01-06 15:19:36

lukegeis ha scritto:

..... I wanted a super cool, highly portable rig of rigs.......

probably a DT25 or a DT50 amp L6-linked with your HD500 could be the perfect answer to your needs..

many DT amp owners are super happy of their rig..




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