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Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!
by Kanjiroo on 2012-12-10 18:38:22

I just received a JTV-59 and updated to 1.9 software.  I love the construction and tone of the Mag pickups.....I love my HD500 and JTV-59 combined.....but the overtones are killing me. ANY string that has an altered tuning creates giant dual tones (HD500-Straight to amp-HEadphones-Recording gear).......as I play this professionally...this is unacceptable. I purchased the guitar to replace 3 d-28's with different tunings and a banjo....the dual tones make this unuasable.  I love the guitar, is there any fix? I hate to send it back....I really do.....please tell me there is a fix......

Jason



Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!
by TheRealZap on 2012-12-10 19:30:30

you should try reflashing to the latest... or perhaps an earlier version than back to the latest...

sometimes the update is imperfect... it won't do that once you get the update right.



Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!
by adessmith on 2012-12-11 06:38:32

Seems odd that a botched update would still work, but alter the tone of the instrument....
I keep seeing people recomend that, for any problem, you should re-apply the latest update, as if this sometimes works for tone related issues.

I wonder if anyone could report that they had a tone related problem which has been solved by re-installing the same version of the firmware currently on the guitar.

(aside from the somewhat common issue where the models are lost and you get the really thin sounding piezo sounds with no modeling)

If this is really the case, it sounds like Line 6 is actually tweaking the firmware "behind peoples back", and not updating the revision number.
I'm not saying TheRealZap is wrong... I mean... I'm not an expert by any means. There is obviously some merrit behind this statement, because you see it OVER AND OVER.

Its just that, understanding a little about firmware updates and digital data, it seems unlikely that a few random bits could get corrupted and cause something like this, but everything else work just fine.

Its like saying you emailed a picture to you mom which somehow didnt send right and now it shows you wearing blue jeans instead of shorts... Sounds a bit like the big bang theory to me...

If this is the case, Line 6 should really integrate some sort of checksum method in the firmware updates so that a corrupted firmware update could be identified prior to installing.



Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!
by TheRealZap on 2012-12-11 07:08:23

I've had these kinds of issues personally and have fixed them by reflashing...

in one instance I even had to flash down to 1.7 then back up in order to clear an issue.

I'm positive that the update is not changed after released, unless a new release is issued.

I don't know the technical details of why it happens, or why this fixes it...



Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!
by YirWaffy on 2012-12-11 07:09:21

I was going to post something similar. I've only been on the forums a few months but I haven't seen this "repatch" suggestion work for anyone in that time (unless I missed something). And I agree on the checksum. That shouldn't be too hard to implement unless there's no way to read the firmware data from the guitar which would have been a design mistake.

Has Line 6 given you any hope of resolving your issue, Ade?



Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!
by silverhead on 2012-12-11 07:21:55

I don't think we should sidetrack this thread - the original poster has an issue, and it has been suggested that a reflash may resolve it. I think that is a good suggestion and is a quick potential fix. Jason (original poster) - please try it. It can't do any harm, and may fix things. Let us know how it goes.

As for the subsequent discussion (not involving Jason) about whether and why a reflash sometimes helps, all I can say is that it certainly does. It's worked for me in the past, I have recommended it to many others and it has sometimnes (not always) worked for them. I can't explain it any more than I can explain why I sometimes need to reinstall a driver on my PC to get a device working properly again. It's a mystery to me, but it works - so I don't worry about it. I think if we want to pursue that discussion we should start a new (non-question) thread and leave this one for Jason's specific issue.



Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!
by silverhead on 2012-12-11 07:36:08

Jason, please confirm that you hear the dual/ghost tones in a recording. This will eliminate the possibility that what you are hearing is actually just the natural acoustic resonance of the physical string in its original tuning. Of course, it's impossible to repress this - the string is physically vibrating - and the processed sound from the amp needs to be quite loud to fully overpower the acoustic sound. However, this natural resonance will not be recorded.



Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!
by Kanjiroo on 2012-12-11 08:51:53

I'll try the reflash tonight....I apreciate the suggestions.  I mihgt also try running on an older release.

Thanks Silverhead and yes, I can 100% confirm that its dual tones from the amp. It only occurs on strings that are electronically detuned and its very load...almost the same volume as the correct tone.

Try this if you guys get a chance....Play through a clean amp -- (I did on both my HD500 and straight to a JC-120)....no effects.....pick any guitar...then select any altered tuning......the altered string carries two tones....one of them not a very nice tone.

Anyway...I shall thry the update again...I'll flash back to 1.7 then up to 1.9 and try it at each update to see what happens and let you all know. 

Again, thank you!!!!

Jason



Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!
by TheRealZap on 2012-12-11 09:13:59

the problem could also be the tone in your HD500... if you have both the mags and the models input... you'll certainly get both the mags and the models out!



Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!
by Kanjiroo on 2012-12-11 09:19:41

Thanks TheRealZap...great suggestion however in my case the problem occurs even straight to amp wihtout HD500.  But I certainly see how using the mags with the models would create that.



Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!
by Kanjiroo on 2012-12-11 16:33:00

ok, don;t ask me why, but the re-flash worked. So, to everyone who helped solve this probelm, you have my warmest "Thank you!" Overtones are gone with all altered tunings.

I'm very happy cause I really like this guitar.

Thanks again everyone!

Jason



Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!
by TheRealZap on 2012-12-11 16:46:22

awesome!



Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!
by adessmith on 2012-12-11 17:01:56

That IS awesome.

Its funny how there are some things that just defy logic.
It's the techy side of me that wants to analyze everything and have an explanation of WHY... sometimes you just have to LISTEN, and sometimes I am stubborn and if  "I" cant explain it, it cant possibly be correct.
LOL

I still want to try to explain this and say that some sort of checksum function could keep this from happening....

and for what it is worth, I have a somewhat similar issue (but not the same).
Line 6 has not yet recomended that I try to re-flash, but I think I will do that after dinner tonight just to rule it out.
I have sent them sample recordings and my tone files from my X3L, they are supposed to be checking things out to decide if I need to send my 59 in.

I hope the black magic works for me as well... I would love to fix my issue without sending the guitar off!



Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!
by adessmith on 2012-12-11 19:53:04

for what its worth, I reflashed to 1.9 tonight with no improvement.

I just rolled back to 1.71, and I still have the issue.

I am now re-installing 1.9

Of course, I couldnt be as lucky as Kanjiroo



Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!
by TheRealZap on 2012-12-11 20:23:26

yeah, it's not a be all solve all... just a good thing to try when troubleshooting...

when i first got mine, it had 1.7 on it... worked fine... flashed to 1.71

and it turned to crap..

after re-flashing several times and still being crap...

flashed back down to 1.7, then back to 1.71 and it worked great...

just saying... sometimes it pays off.



Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!
by Kanjiroo on 2012-12-12 07:38:41

I don;t know if this helps....but when I received the guitar a week ago I had to flaash it several times to get 1.9 to work.  I went from 1.71 to 1.9, fail - then 1.71, 1.8 , 1.9 - fail, then 1.8 to 1.9 - worked.

Last night I went from 1.71 to 1.9 directly....there where no changes in tone of the models, in fact everything was exactly the saem as when I started - then I tried the altererd tunings and the overtones where gone.

If that had not worked, I was going to master reset the guitar and try again....

So, it took several attempts to get this update on the guitar.....I guess I st got lucky last night.

It would be nice if the updating process was not as painful......but I don't want to curse the Gods.

Jason



Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!
by YirWaffy on 2012-12-12 07:49:57

I'm glad to hear re-patching worked for Jason. My apologies for questioning Zap's suggestion.

Sorry that it didn't fix your issue though, Ade. One thing you might want to do before sending yours in is raise the bridge height to eliminate any possibility of the faintest fret buzz. It appears the piezos are very sensitive to it.

I'm going to start a new thread for the checksum feature request. Seems like it would help Line 6 diagnose patching issues.



Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!
by TheRealZap on 2012-12-12 07:52:42

you probably just didn't notice...

and probably aren't too interested in going back to find out

but there is a pretty big difference between 1.7x and 1.8x+ on the acoustic models....

just saying.....

otherwise most of the updates revolve around refinements, and integration and controller capabilities within the "dream rig"



Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!
by adessmith on 2012-12-12 13:58:38

Yeah, I havent tried bridge height, but durring my "troubleshooting" I tried to put a toothpick across the top of the nut, and let the string rest on it, to raise it up out of the nut... essentially raising the action at the lower frets.... That didnt seem to make any difference.

With the gain cranked I can barely brush the string and it will create that overtone... In fact, I can even thump the back of the guitar and the string starts vibrating and I can hear it... I figured there is no way that small of a vibration is causing fret buzz... but I have been wrong before LOL



Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!
by YirWaffy on 2012-12-12 15:47:22

Good sleuthing, Ade. Too bad nothing has come back so far. Maybe there's a tiny corruption in your firmware that happens each time. I hope they implement the checksum feature.



Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!
by pierquiroule on 2012-12-15 09:11:54

I come to mingle with your discussion because I have the same problem for 3 weeks. Why? No idea ... I tried reinstalling the flash memory several times. I tried to roll-back and then install the latest version yesterday (I did not have access to version 1.9!) And the problem still exists ...
I have many Line 6 products and I considered buying another jtv-59 Line 6 but if nothing is done to correct this, I think I would stop trusting them. I spend more time to make changes and adjustments to play guitar!


(I'm French and it's an automatic translation)



Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!
by TheRealZap on 2012-12-15 09:34:50

make sure you contact support directly if re-flashing doesn't fix it:

http://line6.com/company/contact/

">http://line6.com/company/contact/">http://line6.com/company/contact/



Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!
by edstar1960 on 2012-12-17 00:48:52

I experienced similar issue on Saturday night whilst tuning up before a gig.  I have a JTV59 at 1.71 flash going into an X3L going into a powered PA speaker.  I had gone into the X3L tuner in MUTE mode and was tuning up.  I was in MODEL mode but just using a standard model with standard tuning. When I tried tuning the D string, it would briefly flash up D and as I adjusted the tuning it would quickly change to A and show the note as slightly flatter. I checked it again and again once I had tuned it, and each time it would flash D showing in tune and then quickly swap and show A and slightly flat.   It was too noisy in the room for me to hear the acoustic sounds of the string so I don't know if the note was changing or if there was a distinctive overtone. I tried switching off the tuner and listening through the amp and it did sound like the open D would ring and then alter slightly. Played the gig without any noticable artifacts and when I tried tuning up at the break I didn't have the D swapping to A issue.   Weird.  Haven't had a chance to look into it further yet - but I wonder if it is the same thing or some variation of the same thing reported here.



Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!
by faccurso on 2012-12-27 20:22:37

I'm tagging  on here as I, like pierquiroule, have tried everything to get rid of these 'dual' tones from my 59. I won't go into the sequence, but I must have reflashed a dozen times. Back, forward, stepwise, etc. All software is reported as the latest by Line 6 Monkey. I'm getting to wits end, fearing I've purchased a $1500 piece of firewood.

Any fixes, Line 6 folks? I know I'm not the only one having this problem.

Thanks in advance.



Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!
by silverhead on 2012-12-28 05:54:58

As Zap said a few posts ago...........

make sure you contact support directly if re-flashing doesn't fix it:

http://line6.com/company/contact/



Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!
by faccurso on 2012-12-28 09:50:14

Thanks, and sorry for the repeat.

fa



Re: Please, fix the "overtone/ghost/dual" altered tuning tones!
by TheRealZap on 2012-12-28 10:12:09

no problem, we just want to make sure that you are getting to the people that can help you out.




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