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Signal Drop
by SusCitrus on 2012-12-11 03:41:05

Hi.


I have 4 Line6 Clip on mic's and 10 Line6 FM mic's bought from Singapore and I am using them now for a few months.

During our conference the " Signal " of some Clip on's is basicly dropping up & down which means during the speakers session his voice gets cut.

I need some clarification on that how to avoid that of happening again.

Thanks

S.



Re: Signal Drop
by RonMarton on 2012-12-11 07:49:59

Sorry, but we will also "need some clarification" if we are to help you.

As you have tagged your question "XD-V75" and "XD-V55", I assume these are the models you have.

Are you using the default "RF2" frequency scheme on all XD-V systems, or the older "RF1" scheme? (Having a mixture of both schemes will definitely cause problems with reception. We all need to decide on either RF1 or RF2 for all the XD-V systems in a given venue.)

How have you arranged the antennae of your receivers?

When you say that the "Signal" is "dropping up & down", how does this fault "look" on the front panels of the receivers in question?

Is the "dropping" visible on the left "Audio" LED display, or is it the right "RF" LED display that is affected?

Do you need all 14 mics working together, or would 12 at one time be enough?

What is your shoe size? (Just joking...)

We do look forward to helping ...once we know a bit more.



Re: Signal Drop
by dboomer on 2012-12-11 10:52:57

Yep ... I'm with Ron here and need more info to be able to help out.

When you say "up and down" do you mean "on and off" or is the signal still there but lower in volume?

How many systems are you using at the same time?

Which mode are you operating in?

Describe your antenna scheme please.

Have you scanned for available channels ?  Can you send a photo of the scan?

Can you describe the positions of the transmitters relative to the receiver's antennas (including distances)?

Can you please describe the venue?



Re: Signal Drop
by ssutton on 2013-01-07 08:08:14

I am having same issue.

XD-V75 body pack is the problem. I have 4 other xd-v70 (3 handheld, 1 body pack). Those are all working great.

It will completely drop out no sound, Really fas but noticable.

The RF lED's flicker up and down and completely go away. I have notice the closer the body pack is (in sound booth) the less the signal on RF meter moves. When I have someone take it to stage 60ft away it is worse.

I have all 5 on one set of antennas

They are in soundbooth about 6ft away from receivers.

I don't know about the RF1 or RF2 setting I will have to look into it. But I have been useing these for close to two years now and this is a new issue.

I have scanned most other open channels with same results.

One one the other tech took video with phone. I can see if he can send it to me.

Venue is small school gym converting into worship center (slowly). Booth is up 15ft in air about 60ft from stage. We run presonus board wirelessly.



Re: Signal Drop
by dboomer on 2013-01-07 09:59:12

I don't know about the RF1 or RF2 setting I will have to look into it

You MUST< MUST< MUST do so.  The two modes will casue the other mode to drop out.

Also you will likely have a problem connecting 5 receivers to one set of antennas. 4 is max when a V75 is in the system.

Scanning in V70's and V75's is different.  V70's scan in RF1 mode and V75s scan in RF2 mode.  The results are not compatable.



Re: Signal Drop
by RonMarton on 2013-01-07 10:13:44

As I know you'll appreciate, suffering often yields benefits that seem impossible at the time...

In this case, you having suffered this problem will almost certainly help others, as the details you've set out in your excellent post highlights four issues that have given many of us grief.

These are:

  1. While a  "daisy-chain" of up to six receivers is fine when using the V70's, (albeit always with  a pair of their supplied terminating plugs attached to the antenna "out" BNCs of the "last" receiver in the "chain") "the self-terminating" V75 is normally limited to a "daisy chain" of no more than FOUR receivers. ...So (in the absence of more cash spent for the extra flexibility of an antenna distribution unit) the best way for you to connect your rig is to ensure that your sole "self-terminating" V75 is not only the LAST in the "daisy chain", but also that it has NO V70 terminating plugs attached to its "antenna out" BNC connectors. (I frequently operate my sole V75 like this, "hanging off" and terminating one of my two Gator-cased racks of four V70s that are daisy-chain fed from a single pair of P180 antennae);
  2. V75s (like your "offending" TBP body pack) all arrive set to operate in the newer "more WiFi-friendly RF2" scheme of frequencies, whereas V70s originally came with access to only the more robust (but a bit less WiFi and Bluetooth-friendly) "RF1" scheme. The important thing to note here is that any attempt to "force" simultaneous operation of BOTH schemes in the same venue WILL undoubtedly result in an RF disaster. Re-tuning details are set out here, http://line6.com/support/docs/DOC-2645and a discussion of the relative merits of both schemes can be found here: http://line6.com/support/message/374285#374285;
  3. TheWiFi remote operation of your excellent Presonus system may well influence your choice of RF scheme, but remember that you'll need to have it (and any other "local" WiFi or Bluetooth gear) "up and running" at the time of any "Channel Scan" for such a scan to yield viable results and
  4. If you haven't already done so, ...it would be a great idea to use your XD-V75 for a "re-flash" of your four V70 systems (both transmitters and receivers) to the latest "75-like" firmware, which would grant your entire radio mic system maximum flexibility. The "here's how" of "re-flashing" via Line 6 "Monkey" can be found here:http://line6.com/support/docs/DOC-2585.

That's a lot of reading and checking, but it's all in a good cause !



Re: Signal Drop
by ssutton on 2013-01-07 10:41:43

Thank you very much. This is very helpful.

If the XD-V75 comes default with RF2 scan mode then that is probably it. It is weird that this is the first time I have really had this issue. Started using this one a year ago.

I will have to try my hand at updating V70 models. I am just a little leery, I am totally self taught volunteer for our church (5 years) and don't like to mess much with stuff if I don't have too. But sounds like RF2 is the way to go.

I will check to make sure I have the right BNC terminating plugs are on it too. And maybe only have the V70's on one antenna and the V75 on a separate one. I am probably going to buy more V75's in the near future and chain those together.

I appreciate the fast response to this.



Re: Signal Drop
by RonMarton on 2013-01-07 11:12:10

It sounds like you aren't likely to ever require the 300 foot range at which I regularly operate, so I'm guessing you've been running a "rubber ducky" whip antenna set-up, as distinct from my frequent need to rely on pairs of P180 paddles.

That would seem to make your plan of separating your system into lots of no more than four a very good way to go.

By the way, I much prefer the "bulletproof" RF1 scheme ...and a colleague reported no problems adding eight of my systems to his Presonus WiFi-remoted mixer, even though he left them running RF1.

Accordingly, if you'd rather not "Monkey around" updating the V70s, (and given your Presonus has also presumably been OK with your V70s up until now) you could first try simply switching your sole 75 to "RF1" and rationalising your antennae.

That should do the trick.

I'd still recommend an eventual trial of a "re-flash" for just one V70, as the upgrade yields a whole lot of really useful benefits. Once you've gained confidence with that first one, you'll soon have the other three done.

Just remember that, in the event your first attempt yields an "error" message from Line 6's Monkey, you can always "bail out", check to ensure your antenna positioning and cabling are as per the pix in the document ...and go again.

After a bit of such "mucking around" with my first attempt, he whole procedure (including unpacking and repacking) took me a couple of hours for eight receivers, eight beltpacks and four handhelds.

I really love the "Speech Filter" and "Instrument Filter" options that I now have for my beltpacks, just as you already have in your sole V75.



Re: Signal Drop
by dboomer on 2013-01-07 12:52:51

"But sounds like RF2 is the way to go."

I would recommend running in RF1 mode unless there is a reason you need to switch to RF2.  I would also reecommend installing the new V2.x firmware in your V70s.  It's easy.



Re: Signal Drop
by RonMarton on 2013-01-07 16:54:14

Sorry guys, but I just thought of this:

ANTENNAE

Try to arrange it so that the maximum cable length to your "rubber duckie" whips is no longer than the short interconnecting cables that came in the box with the receivers.

I'd go as far as to say that, nine times out of ten, the RF losses incurred with each BNC connector actually negate (or worse than negate) whatever supposed benefit any cable extension might grant an un-powered (hence not "amplifier-equipped") whip antenna.

It's been my experience that we're usually far better off raising and/or otherwise orientating the daisy-chained receivers so that the "top" one has the most direct "line of sight" to the "action area" with its whips "leaning out" from each other to form a 90º right-angled set of "rabbit ears", each one leaning out by roughly 45º.

Once again, that's the way I regularly use my vertically-stacked racks of four, daisy-chained beneath the topmost's pair of whips ...and get a rock-steady range of at least 100ft (30m) from "Battery Save" (lower power, 3.3mW) beltpacks, when using the RF1 scheme for a long day's teleconference work with up to eight simultaneous participants.

(Doing so also allows me a much quicker "getaway" than having to de-rig and pack plate antennae with their extension cables and mounting hardware.)



Re: Signal Drop
by SusCitrus on 2013-01-07 23:44:30

Sorry for the late reply.

Well basically I am running various conferences. Where I have 8 x Fm's (XD-V55) 2 x FM's (XD-V75) and 4 x Clip on's (XD-V55L) + 2 audio technika goose necks simultaneously up and running. What is happening simply is during setup time and trail runs the line 6's are working perfectly.

But once the conference starts during the speech of the presenter the RF LED status drops down n comes up again on various Receivers. So the result of this the sound is not coming through.


At the moment these recievers would be set up next to each other and every reciever runs on their own antennas. no rack mounting etc.

I have tried decreasing the distance from my receivers to transmitters + line of site for the signal + I collect the speakers cellphone to avoid any other interference, i was told by line 6 in Singapore to update all my devices which is easier said thn done.

any other ideas..?

rgds

s.



Re: Signal Drop
by RonMarton on 2013-01-08 01:33:28

OK, one issue at a time:

  1. Am I right in thinking that "FM" stands for "Floor Mic"? If not, ...then what ?
  2. Are the Audio-Technica "goose neck" mics wired, so not part of this discussion ?
  3. Have you made sure that ALL of your Line 6 gear is running RF2 to enable all 14 channels to work at the same time ?
  4. As all your systems are of the newer "x5" type, I don't think that upgrading the firmware has much to do with this.

Point 3 is the most CRITICAL, as any RF1 transmitters accidentally running in an RF2 system could cause exactly the sort of problem you are having, ...or worse. (Careful checking of this will also be an opportunity to make certain that there are no transmitters accidentally "sharing" the same channel number/s.)

I'd also suggest that you spend a bit of time reading through the answers and following up the links to the documents that were prompted by the very useful question from ssutton.

These appear right after your first post in this thread and may not only give you more clues and the "here's how" of being sure that you're actually operating in RF2, ...but also prompt more questions.

Speaking of which, don't EVER be shy in asking for clearer answers if we haven't made things plain.

Remember that whatever things that any of us may have learned have often come by us having done exactly that.



Re: Signal Drop
by ssutton on 2013-01-14 09:51:26

I changed V75 to RF1 this Sunday to match the V70's and it worked without a problem.

Thanks you two.



Re: Signal Drop
by RonMarton on 2013-01-14 10:00:53

We all LOVE a happy ending !

And thank you, both for your patience ...and for taking the trouble to post so that others may also benefit.



Re: Signal Drop
by dboomer on 2013-01-14 14:31:39

So you have 14 units running simultaneously which means that you are running in RF2 mode.  Do you have any Wi-Fi running in the venue?  Typically you will only be sucessful with 14 systems if there is no Wi-Fi.  If there is a Wi-Fi channel running then it is likely that you will be able to use 8 systems in RF2 mode.  You will have to scan to see if all channels are open and available.  Depending on where the WAPs are located you may be able to use antenna distribution and careful antenna placement of paddle antennas and get 14 channels running.

Alternately you switch over to RF1 mode and run 12 systems (but you cannot also run the others in RF2 mode at the same time).

Cellphones are probably not much of a problem (unless thay are also running Wi-Fi at the same time).  Cellphones can get into the lav mics and their cables and become part of the signal before entering the transmitter so segregating them is always a good idea.




The information above may not be current, and you should direct questions to the current forum or review the manual.