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DT25 Direct Recording Help
by shoffman14 on 2013-01-11 17:26:21

I wish to use a DT25 head/cabinet setup to incorporate tube tones into my recordings, and wish to use the XLR Direct output for direct recording.  However, I want to know if there is a way that the amp simulation on that output can be shut off; so I can get a clean direct signal that is only affected by the amp's preamp and power tube sections?  If not, then is there a way to get a clean tube affected signal, for direct recording, out of any of the other outputs?  If so, will I need any additional equipment?  Thanks



Re: DT25 Direct Recording Help
by Krontab on 2013-01-12 14:50:12

I'm slightly confused by your question, specifically:  "I want to know if there is a way that the amp simulation on that output can be shut off". Did you mean cab simulation? Using the DT Edit application there is a way to disable the cab sim but, from what I have assertained the speaker impedance feedback will effect the tone (used a dummy load on a Weber attinuator to test this). The cab simulation out must be connected to the transformer in some manner.



Re: DT25 Direct Recording Help
by shoffman14 on 2013-01-12 20:51:56

Yes, i am sorry. I meant cab simulation. I wanted to see if there was a way to get the tubes to help create the tone for direct recording, then use IR's for the cabinet/mic? I makes sense, in theory,  that IR's of real equipment would create a better tone than a simulated cab/mic.  Would an attenuator allow me to do that? If so which model is best and what features should i look for?   I am unable to mic the amp where i live. It would be too noisy.



Re: DT25 Direct Recording Help
by spaceatl on 2013-01-12 21:35:45

You could try the conventional approach...Try something like an Ultra-G direct box...It's a copy of the Hughes & Ketner red box. Anyway, it's a direct box rated for speaker line. This would give you a line output off the output transformer. This is the same place that the XLR out processing in the DT gets its source signal...

You can disable the cab sim in the Ultra-G (It's actually pretty good for live use)...

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GI100?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=none&gclid=CNL8qp3N5LQCFU6mPAodZzcAHg">http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GI100?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=none&gclid=CNL8qp3N5LQCFU6mPAodZzcAHg">http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GI100?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=none&gclid=CNL8qp3N5LQCFU6mPAodZzcAHg



Re: DT25 Direct Recording Help
by Krontab on 2013-01-13 04:06:53

That is a neat device and just cheap eonough to give it a go even though I have no need for it. Might be great for silent practice. My wife thanks you



Re: DT25 Direct Recording Help
by Krontab on 2013-01-13 04:18:25

Attenuators are a very expensive approach to solve this issue and will color the sound somewhat as the speaker is still engaged and varying impedance. Their application is to reduce output to "bedroom" levels. In my experiance the ones with tonal compensators (bass attinuators as they are passive) sound the best. Bottom line here is with appropriate EQing post the cab sim out I bet you could achieve a good tone for the live setting or go with the $40 device Spaceatl is suggesting. In either case I suspect EQing will be nessisary.



Re: DT25 Direct Recording Help
by spaceatl on 2013-01-13 09:56:40

Actually, the Ultra-G is NOT an attenuator...It doesn't put any load on the amp, so you still have to have a speaker attached or a dummy load. The just leech a line level signal off the speaker line...An attenuator like a Weber mini-mass would probably be a better approach in terms of moving towards silent recording that uses the tubes...



Re: DT25 Direct Recording Help
by shoffman14 on 2013-01-13 10:04:41

Wow, the Ultra-G DI Box sounds like it is exactly what I am looking for!  Would this totally replace the power attenuator?  I saw the Rivera Rockcrusher, which is supposed to solve the problem of coloring the sound, but it is also pretty expensive, at $499.  I would much rather just have to spend $40 for the Ultra-G.  So, can you give me a signal chain; so I can picture exactly how to set it up.  I am guessing the first thing I need to do is go into the DTedit software, and turn off the mic option.  Do I also turn off the cabinet too?  Once that is done, do I take the line from the Direct out or from the 16 ohm cab out?  I am a little confused by the Ultra-G's direct link to cabinet jack, and not sure if it is like a go between to splice the signal between the head and cabinet?  I am guessing from there I take the Ultra-G's "output to mixer jack", and can use that to connect to my interface/DAW?  From here I can get tube tones using the DT25 preamp/power tubes section and use my IR's for the cab/mic?  Thank you both for all of your help so far, and for being patient with me.  I am just beginning to learn this stuff, and am trying to transition over from POD Farm 2.5 and increase the quality of my recorded tones.  I figure if I have the tubes I might as well try to put them to good use in my recorded tones, and just use POD Farm to give me an amp sound while I record my dry tracks.



Re: DT25 Direct Recording Help
by Krontab on 2013-01-13 14:44:34

Thanks for clarifying. I would have damaged something. I have a Mini mass unfortunatly it colors the sound quite a bit.



Re: DT25 Direct Recording Help
by Inerzia on 2013-01-13 18:05:49

A lot of questions in one

-The Ultra-G won't replace a power attenuator, because, as spaceatl said above, it doesn't put any load on the amp, so you will still need to put a load, connected to the Ultra-G's direct link to cabinet. Put another way, the Ultra-G goes between your amp's speaker output  and the speaker's input.

-If you want to use Ultra-G's cabinet emulation (or IR's) , you'll want to disable mic/cab emulation on the amp, yes, otherwise there would be a redundance.
-The Ultra-G will accept both signals, the one from the direct out OR any one of the speaker outputs.
-The Ultra-G does go in between the amp and the cabinet and delivers a balanced, mic level signal at its XLR output, while also letting the amplified signal from your amp pass thru, directly from input to "direct link to cabinet"
-The "output to mixer" can be fed directly to anything that will accept a mic level, balanced signal, be it a mixer, an audio interface, snake, splitter, etc.
-It will give you those tube tones from the amp, so you can use them with your IR's for cab/mic simulation.

Now I have a question for you:
-Why do you need the Ultra-G for? The DT's direct out already does everything you want the Ultra-G to do, and does it better, I'm betting. The mic/cab simulations are really good, better than many (not all) IRs I've tried.



Re: DT25 Direct Recording Help
by shoffman14 on 2013-01-13 19:43:37

Thanks for the help guys.  I was originally using POD Farm with Redwirez IR's, but I recorded my songs direct; so I could re-amp them later.  I use Logic 9, and POD Farm doesn't sound good at all as a plugin, but sounds great in standalone mode.  Of course they had to take out the re-amping feature from the driver; so I am just looking for better sounding options.  Since I got the DT25, I wanted to see if I could take advantage of the tube tones to increase the quality of my recordings, and plan to use a radial reamp box to re-record the dry guitar tracks.  I haven't used the DT25's mic/cab simulation yet; so I am not sure of the quality.  I just wanted to find an option that would allow me to use my RedWirez IR's I already bought, and figurerd IR's made from real equipment would be able to give a better tone than simulated cabs/mics.  Maybe in the end the Mic/cab sim out will be the best option, but it seemed like an interesting experiment.  I will try it both ways, and see what gives the best results.  I am just looking for the best tones I can get, and want to take advantage of the tubes.  Thanks guys!




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