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why is line 6 not giving everyone high gain models?
by jfelstead on 2013-01-26 03:50:52

I think you all agree that there are many factors we take into concideration when buying a guitar. I personally didnt want to spend over a months wages on a bolt on neck guitar. I got the 59 and its great. But i want more i want what your giving to the 89ers i want high gain pickups. Or at least a setting in workbench to boost the equivelant magnetic resistance. Id love to have a nylon string too please tell me there's one in the 5 new accoustics which ive not looked at yet.

Thanks for reading discuss :)



Re: why is line 6 not giving everyone high gain models?
by dchernov551 on 2013-01-26 06:24:01

Hey

If I am not mistaken, the 5 high-gain models in JTV-89 are taken from it's original pickups and are hard-coded into the Custom bank. I believe that it may explain why these are exclusive to JTV-89 model. The official info page gives a little explanation of what these five models are. See below:

High-gain models based on:

  • Bridge pickup
  • Bridge position coil-tapped for single-coil sound
  • Neck pickup
  • Neck pickup coil-tapped for single-coil sound
  • Both bridge and neck pickups

But, of course, some kind of similar offer for the owners of the other models would be great. Perhaps, Line 6 thought that since JTV-89 is a guitar for speed and shred musicians, it would be only logical to add high-gain surprise. But it was possible because of the original pickups installed. A pair of custom alnico humbucking pickups - wound to James Tyler's specs for high output, sizzle and sustain, - as it says on the official page. It is the pickups that allow these high-gain additions, if I understand it right.

I believe that with the Workbench update, there will be lots of new options and ways to get the desired tone. And yes, the nylon string addition would be great. Maybe they will add it somehow with the new updates. We shall see!

Welcome aboard and have a great time here! Take care!

Denis



Re: why is line 6 not giving everyone high gain models?
by clay-man on 2013-01-26 08:13:24

I'm sure they could import the high gain settings to firmware if they wanted. I think it would be a smart move honestly, because there are heavy metal/high gain/shredder people out there that actually like LPs and Strats more than shredder-esque guitars, and the whole point of the Variax is to have that type of variety of sounds available.

One of the things people don't like is sacrifice, and when you're choosing a guitar with either passive or active pickups, you'll sacrifice some options, but that's the point of the Variax, to get it all.



Re: why is line 6 not giving everyone high gain models?
by dchernov551 on 2013-01-26 08:40:00

Yes, you are right, - they could import the high-gain settings to firmware or make such opportunity via the Workbench software, if I'm getting the idea right. I agree that there are lots of people out there that prefer Les Paul and Strat shapes to play heavy kinds of music. Maybe Line 6 already has this included in the list of to do plans, but with the JTV-89 they actually used the potential of the high output pickups already included with the specific 89 model. I think that giving a choice of more pickups in the Variax Workbench software is probably the best option since adding something exclusive to other James Tyler models would give us JTV-89 players asking to give them the same thing that they don't have! Guess lots of people felt hurt when their James Tyler models did not get the same upgrade as JTV-89.

Yes, the point of Variax is to get it all (soundwise). Let's hope the new Workbench upgrade gives everyone the same options. As you rightly said, it would only be a smart and honest move.



Re: why is line 6 not giving everyone high gain models?
by Krontab on 2013-01-26 08:53:40

They run the mag pickups active for the high gain models? Some how that doesn't make sense as the only way to isolate the individual strings for alternate tunings is the piezo bridge saddles. The magnetic pole pieces pickup string vibration from a half inch away and that would not allow appropriate isolation of individual string output. Also the entire output of all of the magnets are summed into two leads also defeating isolation. I'm sure the 89 was chosen for the firmware first to promote it for NAMM. It's like when the HD 300 got the Soldanos first they just wanted to boost sales of the HD 300. Eventually all of the pods got it. This all comes from the mind of a marketing "genius" at some point or another and that guy probably is more accountant than guitar player. In this case I'm almost certain it's to promote the 89FR thats being released at NAMM.



Re: why is line 6 not giving everyone high gain models?
by phil_m on 2013-01-26 09:30:08

I think you misunderstood what dchernov551 was saying. They don't use the magnetic pickups for the high gain model. The high gain model is a model of the the JTV89 with its magnetic pickups. I imagine the reasoning behind doing this was so that people who liked the JTV89 pickups for higher gain stuff could take advantage of alternate tuning easily and still get the tone of the magnetic pickups. I don't think it has a lot to with NAMM, either. The 1.9 update was released back in November - almost three months before NAMM.

Another way to look at it is that if someone owns the JTV59 or 69, there are modeled guitars that come pretty close to the magnetic pickups on those guitars. The single coils on the 69, for instance, sound pretty close to the Spank model. I would imagine the Lester model comes pretty close to the humbuckers on the 59. There really wasn't a model that met the high gain characteristic of the 89's pickups, though. I think that was the reasoning.



Re: why is line 6 not giving everyone high gain models?
by Krontab on 2013-01-26 09:50:26

Yup completely missed that perspective. So in the end it is possable to get them in the other JTV models. It was just to give those with the JTV89 a model that sounds like the guitar it's housed in. I have to say the mag pickup thing is a bit gimicky I would have been happy without if they dropped the price about $400. The pickups in my JTV59 are good but IMO they aren't as good as the PAF copies by Semour Suncan, Gibson or Dimarzio. I would value them at ~$60-$80 quality. All that said if you do not have a real guitar in your stable, the mag pickups would add some value. I'm not having any issues with the gain of the JTV59 pickup models so I'm not personally needing the new high gain models. What popular pickups are the high gain ones emulating? I've always been fond of Dimarzio Tone Zones or Semour Duncan Invaders.



Re: why is line 6 not giving everyone high gain models?
by TheRealZap on 2013-01-26 12:02:42

i'm pretty sure that the high gain models will be available in all jtv's as well as the ability to tweak them....

i'm thinking jtv 2.0 and workbench HD

that's probably why they are not editable now... because there will be no further original variax or original workbench development effort.

... all just me reading between the lines... but it's almost so obvious i'm surprised that noone else said the same...



Re: why is line 6 not giving everyone high gain models?
by jfelstead on 2013-01-29 14:29:53

You guys have helped out..  i was thinking we were being cheated of some kinda emg/ blackouts... but it would be strange to model the 89s own pickups. How can the software diferentiate between the guitars? Did they give it to everyone and didnt think we would care? Ohh well i think its prejudice haha im kidding. But we all should have the choice... why force it into the soundbank of the 89... what if they didnt want it?



Re: why is line 6 not giving everyone high gain models?
by silverhead on 2013-01-29 14:48:05

jfelstead wrote:

.. why force it into the soundbank of the 89... what if they didnt want it?

Anyone can replace any of the factory-provided models in any Variax, at any time, using Workbench. They are just like presets in, say, the Pod HD500. You can use Workbench analogously to HD500 Edit. Make new Variax models (presets), back up existing ones, and swap them in and out at will.



Re: why is line 6 not giving everyone high gain models?
by TheRealZap on 2013-01-29 14:52:29

the jtv89 no doubt have a way to differentiate themselves... as noted by the different available alt tunings....

need in mind the guitar itself might affect the modeling, and those model specific tweaks might come into play.

i do believe that the 1.9 fw stated that the new models could not be read or changed in workbench...

i can't confirm or deny... but silverheads otherwise correct answer might not be complete.



Re: why is line 6 not giving everyone high gain models?
by silverhead on 2013-01-29 15:09:41

Yes - the new models in v1.9 can't be changed 'for the time being'. I suspect the pending update to Workbench will be the point at which they will be modifiable.

Here's the snip from the release notes:

The five high-gain models come with a couple caveats: 1. For the time being, they are not editable in Workbench, nor will you be able to mix and match the body or pickup models.   2. For the time being, the High Gain Model is hard-wired into the Custom 1 bank.  You will not be able to overwrite the Custom 1 bank from the guitar or from Workbench.



Re: why is line 6 not giving everyone high gain models?
by dchernov551 on 2013-01-29 15:10:42

From what I've read online and in the reviews of the actual JTV-89 owners, these five high-gain models cannot be edited or deleted in the Workbench software and are hard-coded in the custom user bank. Not owning the actual guitar yet, I can't confirm this, unfortunately. Perhaps, the reason to add the original tone of the JTV-89 pickups to the custom bank, as you wisely noted, is to have a chance to use these high output pickups with the alternate tunings and, as the Line 6 site says, custom Dream Rig configurations. I wonder if these high-gain tones sound any different from the original magnetic pickups due to piezzo and possible Workbench editing. And does anyone know if these pickups are closer to DiMarzio or Seymour Duncan (if we compare)? Thanks!



Re: why is line 6 not giving everyone high gain models?
by jfelstead on 2013-01-30 12:57:59

id let you know pal but i didnt get them in mine... lol thats petty but thats the point im proving. i wonder if i could sell line6 the idea of being fair lol. i like to play fast i like to hear my guitar scream but i wanted a guitar that looked like a les paul i overcame the neck being fatter than my leg i put my own tuninings into the bank and the one thing that i was waiting for theyve gave to someone else... can you guys see my itch? sorry for being a bitch



Re: why is line 6 not giving everyone high gain models?
by TheRealZap on 2013-01-30 13:09:32

well they were probably mad because the 59 users could dial up a lester and be close to their stock pups...

the 69 users dialed up a spank to the same effect...

the effect which they of course could alt tune...

89 users couldn't dial in anything similar and use the alt tunings.. and only had vintage tones available...

of which... well a user of an 89 probably has the least desire for....

in any case.. it's coming!!!! more than likely it will be for everyone as part of the HD upgrade.



Re: why is line 6 not giving everyone high gain models?
by sparkyERTW on 2013-01-30 13:35:51

Actually, that's pretty much exactly the reasoning Sean Halley gave in his interview with Premier Guitar at NAMM. JTV-89 users had no way of combining their high-output pickups with the downtuning options - a typical use case for the 89's target market - which pretty much nullified the biggest selling point.



Re: why is line 6 not giving everyone high gain models?
by dchernov551 on 2013-01-30 17:51:03

Jfelstead, I understand your feelings completely! I am trying to decide myself what guitar to get and which pickups would fit me the best (not to count the models of included guitar). Just like you, I also like my guitar to scream and I like to play fast (well, not that I can ), so I am leaning towards JTV-89. Of course, when I saw that there are 5 high-gain models included in the latest update, I instantly thought that this is what I needed, but then thought of the other models and wondered why these are not included there. Hopefully, it will happen as TheRealZap said, - all these models will be available for everyone with the following HD upgrade. And he is a guy with experience.

Sparky, Silverhead, Phil and others, thanks for clarifying things up!



Re: why is line 6 not giving everyone high gain models?
by jayson2 on 2013-02-01 16:49:23

When Line 6 first announced that the high gain models were exclusive to the JTV 89, I figured that they probably had a tremlo version sitting in the wings and wanted make the 89 more attractive so the could sell them off.  I mean, other than price who would buy a non tremlo version?

Cheers,

jayson



Re: why is line 6 not giving everyone high gain models?
by dchernov551 on 2013-02-01 17:11:51

You are probably right and I also have been thinking that there is a tremolo version in the works since so many people asked for it and guitars of such kind and shape usually come with the floating bridge installed to get the most out of guitar. Who would buy a non-tremolo version? Probably me if I will not wait for June (can you imagine? ) for them to arrive in Ukraine (according to the local dealer), unless it changes. So in order to get anything at all, I have been asking myself if I need the tremolo, if I am using it often or not and what are the advantages and disadvantages of the floating bridge VS hardtail and how it is affecting the tone, sustain and so on. Any word of advice and opinion would be greatly helpful from you or anyone else reading. Probably it is bad without tremolo if you are playing lead and metal, no? Hehehe

Thank you!



Re: why is line 6 not giving everyone high gain models?
by Nipp on 2013-02-03 04:43:27

dchernov551 wrote:

You are probably right and I also have been thinking that there is a tremolo version in the works since so many people asked for it and guitars of such kind and shape usually come with the floating bridge installed to get the most out of guitar. Who would buy a non-tremolo version? Probably me if I will not wait for June (can you imagine? ) for them to arrive in Ukraine (according to the local dealer), unless it changes. So in order to get anything at all, I have been asking myself if I need the tremolo, if I am using it often or not and what are the advantages and disadvantages of the floating bridge VS hardtail and how it is affecting the tone, sustain and so on. Any word of advice and opinion would be greatly helpful from you or anyone else reading. Probably it is bad without tremolo if you are playing lead and metal, no? Hehehe

Thank you!

You have mentioned a couple of times that you might have to wait till June.

Thomann.de has two 89F in stock right now, one blood red and one black.

Freight is unity €15 for us in sweden anyway.

But I see used JTV-69 for half price in ads here now and then. So a regular 89 will probably be sold off by many wanting the 89F- flooding the used market with those - even music store I guess.



Re: why is line 6 not giving everyone high gain models?
by dchernov551 on 2013-02-03 07:45:48

Tack så mycket, Nipp!   I have been thinking about Thomann as well and will need to calculate the costs and find a safe way to get it shipped here unless I decide to get JTV89 with the hardtail fixed bridge. Maybe I should also look for the various discounts and sales over here or online. However, if I would buy it B-Stock and used, then it wouldn't be new and fixing it with the warranty would be lost. And, of course, I wonder if JTV89F's bridge and construction is better and improved, compared to JTV89. Probably not, but would be great if the new owners or Line 6 guys would tell of the tonal differences and the feel.



Re: why is line 6 not giving everyone high gain models?
by Nipp on 2013-02-03 08:19:27

dchernov551 wrote:

Tack så mycket, Nipp!   I have been thinking about Thomann as well and will need to calculate the costs and find a safe way to get it shipped here unless I decide to get JTV89 with the hardtail fixed bridge. Maybe I should also look for the various discounts and sales over here or online. However, if I would buy it B-Stock and used, then it wouldn't be new and fixing it with the warranty would be lost. And, of course, I wonder if JTV89F's bridge and construction is better and improved, compared to JTV89. Probably not, but would be great if the new owners or Line 6 guys would tell of the tonal differences and the feel.

Ingen orsak, som vi säger på svenska.

Buying from thoman is maybe worth getting a hardcase as well, if they can suggest any. Bigger chance it arrives in one piece. I think I saw thomann had some branded cases that are decent.




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